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[thefro]

I can't imagine the school dropping scholarships. I'll be shocked if the school doesn't just eat the loss and let the students keep their scholarship. Not the students fault, and taking away the scholarship would just for some more bad PR.

They'll either have to go on academic scholarship or walk-on and play FB. FB players aren't allowed to be on academic scholarships.

I do think this is going to hurt PSU a lot more than USC since State College is basically in the middle of nowhere and a lot of people seem to be claiming to be "done" with the school (either because they're disgusted with the scandal, disgusted with the school for "not defending themselves", or just bandwagon fans who aren't going to support a losing team).

 

[Zee-Row]

Anybody that turns a blind eye to child abuse is evil. Joe Pa IMO is evil.

 

[Cyan]

Can someone explain like I'm 5 how ncaa scholarships work or why they're a big deal?

Sure. Division I schools generally offer scholarships to their football players. Giving them a free ride helps ensure that you can attract the best players. In order to maintain competitive balance, schools are limited in the number of scholarships they can offer--they can add up to 25 new scholarship players a year, and can have 85 total (you'll note a discrepancy here--the 25 allows some wiggle room to account for transfers, dropouts, career-ending injuries). They can still have more players without scholarships--generally referred to as "walk-ons"--but the best players won't settle for that, as they can just take a scholarship somewhere else.

Sometimes an NCAA punishment involves scholarship reductions. This means the school so punished can't give out the usual 25 scholarships, but some lower number. In the recent case of USC, they were only allowed to add 15 scholarship players this last recruiting season, and the same will be true for the next two seasons.

What this does, in effect, is decrease the quality of players you can recruit. Or rather, decrease the quantity of quality players. Which is a really big deal in football, as you really need good players at virtually every position in order to field a top-caliber team.

USC's scholarship reductions were considered extremely severe. If Penn St gets something significantly worse, they'd be lucky to field a good team again for many years.

 

[Korey]

Sure. Division I schools generally offer scholarships to their football players. Giving them a free ride helps ensure that you can attract the best players. In order to maintain competitive balance, schools are limited in the number of scholarships they can offer--they can add up to 25 new scholarship players a year, and can have 85 total (you'll note a discrepancy here--the 25 allows some wiggle room to account for transfers, dropouts, career-ending injuries). They can still have more players without scholarships--generally referred to as "walk-ons"--but the best players won't settle for that, as they can just take a scholarship somewhere else.

Sometimes an NCAA punishment involves scholarship reductions. This means the school so punished can't give out the usual 25 scholarships, but some lower number. In the recent case of USC, they were only allowed to add 15 scholarship players this last recruiting season, and the same will be true for the next two.

What this does, in effect, is decrease the quality of players you can recruit. Or rather, decrease the quantity of quality players. Which is a really big deal in football, as you really need good players at virtually every position in order to field a top-caliber team.

USC's scholarship reductions were considered extremely severe. If Penn St gets something significantly worse, they'd be lucky to field a good team again for many years.

Ah ok, so it's kind of like a salary cap for college football teams, and it's regulated by the ncaa and are different from typical scholarships given to non-athletes. Thanks!

 

[DrForester]

It's the NCAA taking them away, not the school.

Kind of the same thing then. Is the NCAA going to punish students to get back at the school? I just can't imagine these students won't be taken care of academically. Students who still wish to play ball will obviously be in a tougher spot.

 

[Forever]

If the punishments are as rumored, the NCAA has impressed me.

Kind of the same thing then. Is the NCAA going to punish students to get back at the school? I just can't imagine these students won't be taken care of academically. Students who still wish to play ball will obviously be in a tougher spot.

They get to transfer out with no penalty.

 

[JABEE]

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/eye-on-college-football/19632027

The NCAA will fine Penn State at least $30 million and perhaps as much as $60 million for its involvement in the Jerry Sandusky scandal, industry sources told CBSSports.com's Brett McMurphy.

The record fine will go toward an endowment for children's causes, sources said.

"This is a fine like no fine before," an industry source told CBSSports.com.

That's a lot of money.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

After hearing the rumored penalties, I'm sure PSU would rather have the death penalty.

Good on the NCAA if these sanctions are true.

 

[Cyan]

Kind of the same thing then. Is the NCAA going to punish students to get back at the school? I just can't imagine these students won't be taken care of academically. Students who still wish to play ball will obviously be in a tougher spot.

I'm not entirely sure what you're asking. The scholarship loss thing has been explained. Kids aren't just kicked off the team--it's about future scholarships and future recruits.

 

[Enron]

All of the talk about this being worse than a Death Penalty needs to stop. It's not even close.

 

[Count Dookkake]

Also needing to stop is the idea that the punishments are hurting anyone. Any "hurt" will be caused by the organization's decision to protect a child rapist.

If a man commits a crime and is sentenced to prison, the state has not hurt his family, he has.

 

[pxleyes]

All of the talk about this being worse than a Death Penalty needs to stop. It's not even close.

I tend to agree. Wiping them from the map for a couple years seems much more detrimental.

 

[TheNatural]

I hope the NCAA is ready for a long lawsuit over their governance powers.

 

[mr2xxx]

They'll either have to go on academic scholarship or walk-on and play FB. FB players aren't allowed to be on academic scholarships.

I do think this is going to hurt PSU a lot more than USC since State College is basically in the middle of nowhere and a lot of people seem to be claiming to be "done" with the school (either because they're disgusted with the scandal, disgusted with the school for "not defending themselves", or just bandwagon fans who aren't going to support a losing team).

Doubt it, USC made around 30 million in revenue while Penn St. made 70 million in revenue last year. It's even worse when you look at profit USC less than 10 million while Penn St. made 50 million.

 

[thefro]

Doubt it, USC made around 30 million in revenue while Penn St. made 70 million in revenue last year.

Between the drop in ticket sales and contributions, plus the NCAA fine, their revenue is going to be *way* down.

 

[TheNatural]

Doubt it, USC made around 30 million in revenue while Penn St. made 70 million in revenue last year. It's even worse when you look at profit USC less than 10 million while Penn St. made 50 million.

USC was so hurt by cheating that they got all of white out put over events that already happened and are only preseason #1 in the country next year by some places.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7871848/college-football-live-preseason-top-25

Such a setback lemme tell ya.

 

[mr2xxx]

Between the drop in ticket sales and contributions, plus the NCAA fine, their revenue is going to be *way* down.

No doubt about that but look at that crazy fan base. The fact that Penn St. is in the middle of nowhere is a huge help, what else do people have over there besides football?

 

[Plinko]

All of the talk about this being worse than a Death Penalty needs to stop. It's not even close.

If the rumors are true, it is MUCH worse.

The "death penalty" as described by NCAA law is a 1 YEAR shutdown. That's it. ONE YEAR. It's not a permanent thing. No loss of scholarships. No bowl bans. Just a one year shutdown.

If the rumors are true, this is basically relegating their football team to irrelevance for years--maybe a decade or more.

 

[TheNatural]

If the rumors are true, it is MUCH worse.

The "death penalty" as described by NCAA law is a 1 YEAR shutdown. That's it. ONE YEAR. It's not a permanent thing.

If the rumors are true, this is basically relegating their football team to irrelevance for years--maybe a decade or more.

Maybe you should look at what the death penalty did to SMU. It definitely didn't have one year effects.

 

[Cyan]

USC was so hurt by cheating that they got all of white out put over events that already happened and are only preseason #1 in the country next year by some places.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7871848/college-football-live-preseason-top-25

Such a setback lemme tell ya.

Again, their punishment only just started. They'd better do well this year, because they're going to start really feeling it by the next season.

Maybe you should look at what the death penalty did to SMU. It definitely didn't have one year effects.

SMU was a generally mediocre program that boosted itself up for a few years by cheating. After the death penalty, they faded back to their normal level.

Unlikely that Penn St would be affected in the same way.

 

[TheNatural]

Again, their punishment only just started. They'd better do well this year, because they're going to start really feeling it by the next season.

Just started, with being a preseason national title contender? LOL. Scholarships don't mean shit to USC, just less scrubs to put in, in garbage time.

Thy should have vacated their bowl and conference split money and fined that amount if the NCAA gave a damn.

 

[Plinko]

Maybe you should look at what the death penalty did to SMU. It definitely didn't have one year effects.

That's because SMU wasn't a football powerhouse.

A relevant university in football can easily recover from anything like that. SMU willingly pushed the program aside after the death penalty. NO WAY Penn State would do that. It would be back to relevance in no time. The fans that obsess about the program like a cult need to suffer a bit and watching a terrible team for a decade would definitely kill the momentum behind that obsession. That's why I'd absolutely LOVE the idea of taking away Paterno's wins since this whole thing started. That would crush that cult obsession.

A 1-year ban would simply enrage their fans and get them more supportive of the team, only to return the following year.

 

[Cyan]

Just started, with being a preseason national title contender? LOL. Scholarships don't mean shit to USC, just less scrubs to put in, in garbage time.

Thy should have vacated their bowl and conference split money and fined that amount if the NCAA gave a damn.

Do you even know what USC was punished for?

I'm not clear what you're arguing here. Scholarship losses definitely have an effect. USC only just started with theirs, which is why they're still able to contend.

 

[beast786]

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/eye-on-college-football/19632027



That's a lot of money.

honestly , I rather let them play and all money goes to child abuse victim/charity.

 

[TheNatural]

Do you even know what USC was punished for?

I'm not clear what you're arguing here. Scholarship losses definitely have an effect. USC only just started with theirs, which is why they're still able to contend.

For smaller schools, sure. Because they have less margin of error choosing which recruits to take from a pool of mostly 2 or 3 star guys. They could get a lemon or a diamond in the rough, so take away the cards they have to play with, less shots to hit the jackpot.

USC is choosing for 4 and 5 star guys. Sure it hurts their depth a little, but the talent isn't going anywhere taking scholarships away. It's not much of a punishment.

 

[mambadragon]

Maybe you should look at what the death penalty did to SMU. It definitely didn't have one year effects.

I'm a PSU alum, so while that doesn't make anything I say definitive, if PSU got the death penalty for just a year I could see the fans making the first game back in 2013 or whatever being some huge celebration. I'd still like to see the death penalty for what it symbolically means, but perhaps the NCAA is thinking what will long term punish the school (the scholarships, bowl games, etc). The thing though is PSU went through a pretty significant losing streak in the early to mid 2000s and that didn't really change anything, so I'm not convinced a 5 year ban on scholarships and bowls will really do much.

I hate to bitch and have no suggested solutions, but anything less than a death penalty for like 10 years will do anything to change the fan culture. The hope is that the new leaders are actually competent and really do put academics ahead of any sports, but I'm cynical.

I went there for the education/value (PSU does have a great engineering program, especially if you're a PA resident) and it's just fucking embarrassing. When meeting people or job interviews or whatever I now say I'm from U of Maryland, where I went to grad school.

 

[Seraphinianus]

Also needing to stop is the idea that the punishments are hurting anyone. Any "hurt" will be caused by the organization's decision to protect a child rapist.

If a man commits a crime and is sentenced to prison, the state has not hurt his family, he has.

100% true.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

honestly , I rather let them play and all money goes to child abuse victim/charity.

They still get to play.

Just not with the best players coming out of high school.
Or in the post season.

 

[Plinko]

For smaller schools, sure. Because they have less margin of error choosing which recruits to take from a pool of mostly 2 or 3 star guys. They could get a lemon or a diamond in the rough, so take away the cards they have to play with, less shots to hit the jackpot.

USC is choosing for 4 and 5 star guys. Sure it hurts their depth a little, but the talent isn't going anywhere taking scholarships away. It's not much of a punishment.

Today a major scout was saying that if they take 20 scholarships a year away, that's basically equivalent to the death penalty, and they can extend the amount of time that happens as well.

If they do that for 5 years, that program is finished for years.

 

[Plinko]

I'm a PSU alum, so while that doesn't make anything I say definitive, if PSU got the death penalty for just a year I could see the fans making the first game back in 2013 or whatever being some huge celebration. I'd still like to see the death penalty for what it symbolically means, but perhaps the NCAA is thinking what will long term punish the school (the scholarships, bowl games, etc). The thing though is PSU went through a pretty significant losing streak in the early to mid 2000s and that didn't really change anything, so I'm not convinced a 5 year ban on scholarships and bowls will really do much.

I hate to bitch and have no suggested solutions, but anything less than a death penalty for like 10 years will do anything to change the fan culture. The hope is that the new leaders are actually competent and really do put academics ahead of any sports, but I'm cynical.

I went there for the education/value (PSU does have a great engineering program, especially if you're a PA resident) and it's just fucking embarrassing. When meeting people or job interviews or whatever I now say I'm from U of Maryland, where I went to grad school.

Thank you. That's what I've been trying to say. A simple 1-year shutdown won't do anything to the cult aspect of things there.

 

[mr2xxx]

For smaller schools, sure. Because they have less margin of error choosing which recruits to take from a pool of mostly 2 or 3 star guys. They could get a lemon or a diamond in the rough, so take away the cards they have to play with, less shots to hit the jackpot.

USC is choosing for 4 and 5 star guys. Sure it hurts their depth a little, but the talent isn't going anywhere taking scholarships away. It's not much of a punishment.

When you have walk ons like Clay Matthews Jr. you will be in good shape.

 

[TheNatural]

I hope the transfer rule applies to all sports.

You fine a program that much money, its not football that's just hurt - its everything. Football FUNDS the entire athletic program. That money to staff the women's lacrosse team or take the cross country team anywhere comes from football revenue.

So what happens now? You tell some 17 girl who was excited about getting a softball scholarship, sorry, we can't take you on now thanks to the NCAA fine - because some guys you never met 10 years ago didn't report a sexual predator.

That's my problem with NCAA overstepping their bounds. Student athletes from even other sports are suffering from this. Hopefully they can transfer out easily or find an equal scholarship in the field they wanted at Penn State.

 

[Future Foundation]

When you have walk ons like Clay Matthews Jr. you will be in good shape.

I think Clay Matthews Jr. is a little too old to walk on.

 

[mr2xxx]

I hope the transfer rule applies to all sports.

You fine a program that much money, its not football that's just hurt - its everything. Football FUNDS the entire athletic program. That money to staff the women's lacrosse team or take the cross country team anywhere comes from football revenue.

So what happens now? You tell some 17 girl who was excited about getting a softball scholarship, sorry, we can't take you on now thanks to the NCAA fine - because some guys you never met 10 years ago didn't report a sexual predator.

That's my problem with NCAA overstepping their bounds. Student athletes from even other sports are suffering from this. Hopefully they can transfer out easily or find an equal scholarship in the field they wanted at Penn State.

Problem is that you have send a strong message if not then the next coach that wins there will be looked upon like a saint and the same problems will occur where football rules. Sadly this is not just a Penn St. so the NCAA has to make an example of them.

I think Clay Matthews Jr. is a little too old to walk on.

LOL meant Jr. Jr.

 

[mambadragon]

Thank you. That's what I've been trying to say. A simple 1-year shutdown won't do anything to the cult aspect of things there.

Yes, PSU is not SMU. A year (or few years) death would be a rallying cry for the crazy fans.

But the death penalty could still help - I still think the reason people are such fans is related to the game experience (specifically, the tailgating which is unequivocally a good time for most) and ending that may help. I don't know but I like to think these people just don't want to lose their fun event... It makes me more comfortable than thinking people actually believe Paterno was some deity or something.

 

[Daydream Sequence]

Thank you. That's what I've been trying to say. A simple 1-year shutdown won't do anything to the cult aspect of things there.

Nope, it would only accentuate it. The first game back would be like a national holiday there. Nothing would be learned. Sadly, I don't think whatever happens tomorrow will make the fools crying near the statue as it came down change. They were literally lamenting the loss of a statue dedicated to a man who tacitly endorsed child rape. How do you change those people? Yeesh.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

I don't know why, but I think Mark Emmert is going to hand down a judgment that makes Goodell blush. The deification of the fans regardly the football program and JoePa to the Paterno family actions are sickening. These are some fucking kids man and people are acting like assholes about this. I'll definitely be going in late tomorrow for work.

 

[TheNatural]

Problem is that you have send a strong message if not then the next coach that wins there will be looked upon like a saint and the same problems will occur where football rules. Sadly this is not just a Penn St. so the NCAA has to make an example of them.

What same problems? It was a group of what - 5 people including the predator that had knowledge of this stuff? McCreary, don't know where he is now, two are charged with perjury, one is dead, and the predator is behind bars.

It's sending a message of what - to be a decent person and report a child predator, something expected of anyone on a personal level?

At best, the NCAA is punishing anyone with a loose association with the people involved through a sport. At worst, student athletes in other sports who have as much to do as this incident as they do with whats going on in North Korea, get punished.

Penn State is just a name - it doesn't cover every person, place, or relationship effected by this. Dropping a nuke on a town after someone robs a bank to send a message isn't exactly doing anyone favors.

 

[Cyan]

I hope the transfer rule applies to all sports.

You fine a program that much money, its not football that's just hurt - its everything. Football FUNDS the entire athletic program. That money to staff the women's lacrosse team or take the cross country team anywhere comes from football revenue.

So what happens now? You tell some 17 girl who was excited about getting a softball scholarship, sorry, we can't take you on now thanks to the NCAA fine - because some guys you never met 10 years ago didn't report a sexual predator.

That's my problem with NCAA overstepping their bounds. Student athletes from even other sports are suffering from this. Hopefully they can transfer out easily or find an equal scholarship in the field they wanted at Penn State.

Does that actually happen? I mean, money is fungible. It's not like the cash for softball scholarships must be sourced from football revenue. Are they just going to say "oh sorry, we're paying these fines, so we're not offering scholarships for anything this year"? Assuming they want competitive teams in the non-revenue sports, seems more likely they'll pay for it anyway.

 

[perfectchaos007]

Pony Excess is about to play on ESPNU for those who want to see what the death penalty is all about.

Like others have said, a one year death penalty won't set back Penn State at all. All the players will just be red-shirted a season, and they'll come back the next year just as strong as ever.

Taking away all scholarships for a few years would be way more detrimental than a death penalty. On top of that, make 100% of ticket sales for those seasons go to the center for child protection fund. That would mean if fans still really wanted to watch Penn State football, they could, but they would be watching their DIII caliber team get mudholed week after week and know that their patronage is not in any way supporting the university financially.

 

[Korey]

What same problems? It was a group of what - 5 people including the predator that had knowledge of this stuff? McCreary, don't know where he is now, two are charged with perjury, one is dead, and the predator is behind bars.

It's sending a message of what - to be a decent person and report a child predator, something expected of anyone on a personal level?

At best, the NCAA is punishing anyone with a loose association with the people involved through a sport. At worst, student athletes in other sports who have as much to do as this incident as they do with whats going on in North Korea, get punished.

Penn State is just a name - it doesn't cover every person, place, or relationship effected by this. Dropping a nuke on a town after someone robs a bank to send a message isn't exactly doing anyone favors.

It's the culture of football being > everything else that allowed this to remain hidden so long. Also evidenced by the horrible students there that idolize a child molester and enabler. That's the point of all of this.

 

[Daydream Sequence]

What same problems? It was a group of what - 5 people including the predator that had knowledge of this stuff? McCreary, don't know where he is now, two are charged with perjury, one is dead, and the predator is behind bars.

It's sending a message of what - to be a decent person and report a child predator, something expected of anyone on a personal level?

At best, the NCAA is punishing anyone with a loose association with the people involved through a sport. At worst, student athletes in other sports who have as much to do as this incident as they do with whats going on in North Korea, get punished.

Penn State is just a name - it doesn't cover every person, place, or relationship effected by this. Dropping a nuke on a town after someone robs a bank to send a message isn't exactly doing anyone favors.

They're punishing the institution. Rightly. Doesn't matter if Joe is dead. Doesn't matter if the other people are in jail. The institution of Penn State, and the preservation of it, is what led to this. The punishment serves notice to not only Penn State, but to every other college that this won't be tolerated. Ever.

 

[TheNatural]

Does that actually happen? I mean, money is fungible. It's not like the cash for softball scholarships must be sourced from football revenue. Are they just going to say "oh sorry, we're paying these fines, so we're not offering scholarships for anything this year"? Assuming they want competitive teams in the non-revenue sports, seems more likely they'll pay for it anyway.

It comes from somewhere though, it doesn't come from thin air. Either a tuition spike in the future, or something along those lines. Either way, 100% of that money is going to come from people who has basically zero association with the incident.

 

[beast786]

I hope the transfer rule applies to all sports.

You fine a program that much money, its not football that's just hurt - its everything. Football FUNDS the entire athletic program. That money to staff the women's lacrosse team or take the cross country team anywhere comes from football revenue.

So what happens now? You tell some 17 girl who was excited about getting a softball scholarship, sorry, we can't take you on now thanks to the NCAA fine - because some guys you never met 10 years ago didn't report a sexual predator.

That's my problem with NCAA overstepping their bounds. Student athletes from even other sports are suffering from this. Hopefully they can transfer out easily or find an equal scholarship in the field they wanted at Penn State.

What part of this you guys still can't get.

Graham Spanier, joe not just protected Sandusky. but , mainly the PSU image and football. And all worked FOR PSU. So , yes, the 17 year old was taking full advantage of lies and protection of PSU. now since the lies and criminal act are exposed, the same 17 year old will have to face the other side.

this ridiculous argument is basically saying, why is a child punished and being deprived of a father, if it's father who did the crime.

they all benefited from PSU image and football money.

 

[TheNatural]

They're punishing the institution. Rightly. Doesn't matter if Joe is dead. Doesn't matter if the other people are in jail. The institution of Penn State, and the preservation of it, is what led to this. The punishment serves notice to not only Penn State, but to every other college that this won't be tolerated. Ever.

So do you live in the US? You believe in paying a $500 bill this year for slavery reparations?

 

[Daydream Sequence]

And for people worried that this isn't strong enough because it wasn't the death penalty, fear not. It is as bad or worse. Penn State isn't going to be able to get the same kids it used to get. Sane parents aren't going to push their kids towards Penn State if they have other options. Penn State will be fielding teams full of players that no one else wanted for quite some time.

So do you live in the US? You believe in paying a $500 bill this year for slavery reparations?

Take that stupid shit elsewhere.

 

[Cyan]

It comes from somewhere though, it doesn't come from thin air. Either a tuition spike in the future, or something along those lines. Either way, 100% of that money is going to come from people who has basically zero association with the incident.

Man, the goalposts are moving so fast I'm getting vertigo.

 

[freenudemacusers]

So do you live in the US? You believe in paying a $500 bill this year for slavery reparations?

Lol what is this

 

[mr2xxx]

So do you live in the US? You believe in paying a $500 bill this year for slavery reparations?

The Natural, Natural's Law? Am I being trolled?

Edit: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=27139293&postcount=5138

 

[Forever]

How long before the Penn State cult invokes Godwin's Law?

edit: Huh I didn't even know that existed ^