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[The Lamonster]

NO MOLESTO

 

[Barrett2]

You do not go to the police immediately to have an employee arrested ever.

That's a quick way to a lawsuit and losing your job. Why didn't the guy who told Paterno go to the police if that was the proper course of action?

Paterno (& McCreary) clearly read his HR manual on this one.

Im' not even sure what point you're trying to make here.

Oh, thank god everyone at the school followed the bureaucratic guidelines to MASS CHILD RAPE, ensuring that everyone involved could do the least work possible in dealing with the issue.

Positions like this are weird, because you are basically conflating some corporate bureaucratic HR policy with doing the legally correct or morally correct thing.

Not to mention that as people keep pointing out, this isn't some money laundering or theft charge. This dude was accused of sodomizing kids by an eye witness, and yet everyone involved at the university felt it was somehow appropriate to keep working with this person and stonewall any hope of an actual, full police investigation?

These same corporate bureaucratic policies are the very reason kids kept getting assaulted.

 

[harSon]

The misconception here is that Joe Paterno is just another football coach, he's not. The man is Penn State. He is the most iconic figure in the schools history and is widely regarded as the most powerful person on campus (aside from the the president).

I would shocked to find out that Paterno simply informed his administrators and left them to investigate his friend of thirty years. There's no way Paterno wasn't involved.

The misconception here is that people should be held to the same standards. Him being an iconic coach should not be held against him.

 

[dojokun]

None of these analogies fly, the circumstances regarding Paterno's relationship to everyone involved is very different and singular. It's not a stranger randomly blurting out some bizarre accusation to him out of nowhere. It's a trusted subordinate leveling deadly serious firsthand charges about another trusted subordinate and close friend. And the person hearing these accusations is, by all accounts, an all-powerful god-king in the community.

None of those differences matter. All that matters is the level of knowledge you have. Eyewitness = call the police. Heard it from someone else (regardless of it's a stranger or best friend) = not your place to call the police.

You don't call up the police to file a report and say "No I didn't see it but my best friend did. My best friend!!!!! If my best friend says it happened, it happened. I once lost my eraser in third grade and he was awesome enough to find it for me!!!"

No, sorry, it doesn't matter how well you know the eyewitness. If you're not the eyewitness, it's secondhand knowledge.

 

[C Jones]

This is where you are completely wrong. Sandusky was retired and not part of Joe Paterno's program in 2002. The UNIVERSITY allowed his charity to use athletic department facilities in the summer.

He's not completely wrong. This guy still used JoePas facilities and even brought a victim to a closed Penn State practice.

JoePa isn't aware of who's going to a closed practice? I don't buy it.

 

[Sanjuro]

He shouldn't. Anyone who's upset at Paterno should be upset at McQueary for the lack of follow up.

I think that goes without saying.

 

[samus i am]

I would shocked to find out that Paterno simply informed his administrators and left them to investigate his friend of thirty years. There's no way Paterno wasn't involved.

I'm not sure why. Yes, JoePa is Penn State but he doesn't run their campus police. He basically delegated the matter to the people that were supposed to do something and they didn't.

 

[Alcibiades]

Morally, I still say that since Joe Pa was not an eyewitness, thus he has no moral obligation to say anything to anyone. The grad assistant saw it and that is the person who morally should have gone to the police. Just because the grad assistant went to Joe Pa, thus giving Joe Pa secondhand knowledge based on the word of mouth of the grad assistant, doesn't mean Joe Pa is morally obligated to report it to anyone. If I saw a crime, the ran into a restaurant and shouted it out to everyone in the restaurant, are all the restaurant patrons then morally obligated to file police reports? I think not. All they have is secondhand knowledge based on my word of mouth.

And legally, I don't know what the law in PA is, but it's hard for me to imagine that the law would make any kind of exception for grad assistants at Penn State. If you see a crime, you go to the police, not your employer.

I do think Joe Pa should have gone to the policed based on the seriousness of the accusations, but at the same time I don't see him as a bad guy here for reporting, as you said, second-hand knowledge.

His conversation wouldn't be legal testimony in court, but he did what he could - get the ball rolling on an investigation by informing the people in charge of such matters. It isn't his fault they didn't follow through (even though it was have been ideal, although maybe risky to him legally, to see Joe Pa get more involved).

 

[Vire]

Paterno's statement is so ridiculous.

I DON'T WANT THE BOARD TO GET INVOLVED - NO NEED TO PUNISH ME. LET ME FINISH OUT THE SEASON PLZ AND I'll LEAVE. KTHXBYE.

Fuck you man, you had your forty six years and you made some terrible mistakes that you should suffer the consequences for. I don't give a fuck who you are - you need to be held accountable for your actions.

 

[Spectral Glider]

Morally, I still say that since Joe Pa was not an eyewitness, thus he has no moral obligation to say anything to anyone. The grad assistant saw it and that is the person who morally should have gone to the police. Just because the grad assistant went to Joe Pa, thus giving Joe Pa secondhand knowledge based on the word of mouth of the grad assistant, doesn't mean Joe Pa is morally obligated to report it to anyone. If I saw a crime, the ran into a restaurant and shouted it out to everyone in the restaurant, are all the restaurant patrons then morally obligated to file police reports? I think not. All they have is secondhand knowledge based on my word of mouth.

Sandusky was a close, long time friend of Joe's and his defensive coordinator in 1998 when Sandusky was investigated by a DA for child molestation charges. Sandusky retires in 1999 to the surprise of many outside of football. And then the now infamous 2002 incident occurs. Sandusky continues to be seen in and around campus with children from 2002 on. I mean come on, Joe was not simply some guy in a restaurant hearing somebody shout about a crime. Christ, his own statement now reads that he wishes he'd done more. He's not guilty of committing a crime, but he's guilty of turning a blind eye or at the very least, putting his trust in people that are morally corrupt.

 

[Sanjuro]

Im' not even sure what point you're trying to make here.

Oh, thank god everyone at the school followed the bureaucratic guidelines to MASS CHILD RAPE, ensuring that everyone involved could do the least work possible in dealing with the issue.

Positions like this are weird, because you are basically conflating some corporate bureaucratic HR policy with doing the legally correct or morally correct thing.

Not to mention that as people keep pointing out, this isn't some money laundering or theft charge. This dude was accused of sodomizing kids by an eye witness, and yet everyone involved at the university felt it was somehow appropriate to keep working with this person and stonewall any hope of an actual, full police investigation?

These same corporate bureaucratic policies are the very reason kids kept getting assaulted.

Most people in here just aren't doing the research and forming random opinions. We are talking about a sexual predator who used the Paterno's facilities up until last week who was well aware of the history.

 

[dojokun]

Nah, he's always been the very obvious leader of that organization, moral leader included. How many times over the years has Joe stuck to his hard line and benched kids for being out past curfew, caught drinking underage, getting into trouble? Even his stars have been sidelined over the years for breaking his rules, and he's stuck to his guns even when it hurt the team. It's a well established part of the program, folks know not to try and 'flex' JoePa's rules, the old man won't take it.

As head coach of a program this size and status, when something happens that threatens to completely eviscerate your team you owe it to everyone in your organization to get it resolved. Legally, get the facts, go to HR, see what happens with your counsel and the authorities. That's part of the job...

I'm gonna have to disagree, because this isn't about breaking team rules or school rules. It's about breaking the law. Joe Pa has no right to start playing detective. The eyewitness should go to Joe Pa to report violations of team rules that don't break the law. If the law is broken, then team rules and school rules are trumped by the fact that this is a police matter.

Doesn't matter how big Joe Pa is on campus. It's a police matter, and that trumps any kind of celebrity influence.

 

[Sanjuro]

I'm gonna have to disagree, because this isn't about breaking team rules or school rules. It's about breaking the law. Joe Pa has no right to start playing detective. The eyewitness should go to Joe Pa to report violations of team rules that don't break the law. If the law is broken, then team rules and school rules are trumped by the fact that this is a police matter.

Doesn't matter how big Joe Pa is on campus. It's a police matter, and that trumps any kind of celebrity influence.

You are being a bit dense. He is an educator with a obligation to respond appropriately to any sort of sexual misconduct forced upon a child or student. Seeing Sandusky stroll in with his Second Mile boy of the week for more than a decade afterward easily determines that he did not do enough.

 

[dojokun]

Sandusky was a close, long time friend of Joe's and his defensive coordinator in 1998 when Sandusky was investigated by a DA for child molestation charges. Sandusky retires in 1999 to the surprise of many outside of football. And then the now infamous 2002 incident occurs. Sandusky continues to be seen in and around campus with children from 2002 on. I mean come on, Joe was not simply some guy in a restaurant hearing somebody shout about a crime. Christ, his own statement now reads that he wishes he'd done more. He's not guilty of committing a crime, but he's guilty of turning a blind eye or at the very least, putting his trust in people that are morally corrupt.

Of course he's going to say he wish he did more. It sounds really bad to say "Sorry gaiz not my prob lol"

But the reality is, it WASN'T his problem if he wasn't the eyewitness. Being a close friend is irrelevant. Are you the eyewitness or not? If not, then it's not your place to run around running your mouth. The eyewitness has an obligation to tell the police about seeing a violation of the law. The fact that this is a police matter trumps friendship, football, team comradery, school spirit, and Joe Pa's celebrity influence.

 

[dojokun]

You are being a bit dense. He is an educator with a obligation to respond appropriately to any sort of sexual misconduct forced upon a child or student. Seeing Sandusky stroll in with his Second Mile boy of the week for more than a decade afterward easily determines that he did not do enough.

Keep off the personal attacks.

 

[Vire]

Of course he's going to say he wish he did more. It sounds really bad to say "Sorry gaiz not my prob lol"

But the reality is, it WASN'T his problem if he wasn't the eyewitness. Being a close friend is irrelevant. Are you the eyewitness or not? If not, then it's not your place to run around running your mouth. The eyewitness has an obligation to tell the police about seeing a violation of the law. The fact that this is a police matter trumps friendship, football, team comradery, school spirit, and Joe Pa's celebrity influence.

Are you kidding me? It ISN'T Paterno's problem that a child predator is roaming around campus when he knew about the actions he did? It ISN'T Paterno's problem that he could possibly be molesting future children after the incident? Paterno knew about the transgressions and he needed to tell the police. PERIOD. He put the school's stature and football program above everything and swept it under the rug like it never happened.

How can you be so blind?

 

[samus i am]

You are being a bit dense. He is an educator with a obligation to respond appropriately to any sort of sexual misconduct forced upon a child or student. Seeing Sandusky stroll in with his Second Mile boy of the week for more than a decade afterward easily determines that he did not do enough.

Or most likely he wrongly put his faith in Curly and Shultz, and felt that if they found anything they would go to the police.

 

[dojokun]

Are you kidding me? It ISN'T Paterno's problem that a child predator is roaming around campus when he knew about the actions he did? It ISN'T Paterno's problem that he could possibly be molesting future children after the incident? Paterno knew about the transgressions and he needed to tell the police. PERIOD. He put the school's stature and football program above everything and swept it under the rug like it never happened.

How can you be so blind?

It isn't his problem that he was told that someone who no longer works for him was seen breaking the law. It's not up to him to play detective. Eyewitness needs to go the police, not his employer.

 

[gutshot]

You are being a bit dense. He is an educator with a obligation to respond appropriately to any sort of sexual misconduct forced upon a child or student. Seeing Sandusky stroll in with his Second Mile boy of the week for more than a decade afterward easily determines that he did not do enough.

Where are you getting this stuff? It seems to me that after the 2002 incident Sandusky moved his predatory activities to the high school he coached at.

Many people are making assumptions that Sandusky and Paterno were having direct, daily contact for the past 10 years which, as far as I can tell, is not the case. In fact, I believe it was reported that Sandusky and Paterno have not been on speaking terms since Sandusky's retirement.

 

[tycoonheart]

Of course he's going to say he wish he did more. It sounds really bad to say "Sorry gaiz not my prob lol"

But the reality is, it WASN'T his problem if he wasn't the eyewitness. Being a close friend is irrelevant. Are you the eyewitness or not? If not, then it's not your place to run around running your mouth. The eyewitness has an obligation to tell the police about seeing a violation of the law. The fact that this is a police matter trumps friendship, football, team comradery, school spirit, and Joe Pa's celebrity influence.

Joe Pa could've pushed the GA to go to the police, which doesn't look like he did. He could've pushed the matter more, and he failed to do so.

 

[Sanjuro]

Keep off the personal attacks.

...that wasn't a personal attack. Thanks for avoiding the information.

Where are you getting this stuff? It seems to me that after the 2002 incident Sandusky moved his predatory activities to the high school he coached at.

Many people are making assumptions that Sandusky and Paterno were having direct, daily contact for the past 10 years which, as far as I can tell, is not the case. In fact, I believe it was reported that Sandusky and Paterno have not been on speaking terms since Sandusky's retirement.

Are you saying that Paterno and Sandusky made no personal contact in that time frame?

 

[drspeedy]

Of course he's going to say he wish he did more. It sounds really bad to say "Sorry gaiz not my prob lol"

But the reality is, it WASN'T his problem if he wasn't the eyewitness. Being a close friend is irrelevant. Are you the eyewitness or not? If not, then it's not your place to run around running your mouth. The eyewitness has an obligation to tell the police about seeing a violation of the law. The fact that this is a police matter trumps friendship, football, team comradery, school spirit, and Joe Pa's celebrity influence.

Legally? Not his problem.

Practically? His problem.

Joe's not in trouble, he didn't hide anything and he didn't make any decisions that affect the criminal portion of the case.

He is responsible, however, for maintaining order and ensuring the success of his football team, and as a person with great influence and impeccable reputation he more than anyone could have used influence to guarantee things were handled properly. That would have been in his best interest as well...

 

[Spectral Glider]

Of course he's going to say he wish he did more. It sounds really bad to say "Sorry gaiz not my prob lol"

As if he would say that, no, he simply wouldn't say anything at all.

But the reality is, it WASN'T his problem if he wasn't the eyewitness. Being a close friend is irrelevant. Are you the eyewitness or not? If not, then it's not your place to run around running your mouth. The eyewitness has an obligation to tell the police about seeing a violation of the law. The fact that this is a police matter trumps friendship, football, team comradery, school spirit, and Joe Pa's celebrity influence.

Yeah, the head of the football program has now twice been aware of allegations against his former coach, one of which has an eyewitness by a current football assistant, on school grounds and it WASN'T his problem because he didn't see it. Brilliant.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

If you see a grown man engaged in sex with a minor of ten years old and you chose to do anything other than physically remove the child from the assault then you're a horrible human being and deserves all the scorn and punishment that can be legally brought down upon you.

If you hear of accusations, repeatedly, for years of a member of your staff engaging in inappropriate sexual contact with little children and you do not investigation them seriously and just sweep it under a rug, you're a horrible human being and deserves all the scorn and punishment that can be legally brought down upon you.

 

[samus i am]

Joe Pa could've pushed the GA to go to the police, which doesn't look like he did. He could've pushed the matter more, and he failed to do so.

So you admit that the GA did not preform his responsibilities. There are a lot of should have, would have, and could haves, but at least Joe did something.

 

[gutshot]

Are you saying that Paterno and Sandusky made no personal contact in that time frame?

I don't know. I'm saying that I don't want to jump to conclusions and would rather wait for the further investigation to reveal more of the facts.

 

[dojokun]

Legally? Yes.

Practically? No.

Joe's not in trouble, he didn't hide anything and he didn't make any decisions that affect the criminal portion of the case.

He is responsible, however, for maintaining order and ensuring the success of his football team, and as a person with great influence and impeccable reputation he more than anyone could have used influence to guarantee things were handled properly.

If I read correctly Sandusky was no longer with the program when the grad assistant reported this. If I'm wrong about that, then I will just agree 100% with your post.

 

[Vire]

If you see a grown man engaged in sex with a minor of ten years old and you chose to do anything other than physically remove the child from the assault then you're a horrible human being and deserves all the scorn and punishment that can be legally brought down upon you.

If you hear of accusations, repeatedly, for years of a member of your staff engaging in inappropriate sexual contact with little children and you do not investigation them seriously and just sweep it under a rug, you're a horrible human being and deserves all the scorn and punishment that can be legally brought down upon you.

And we have a winner.

Bye bye McQueary/Paterno and good riddance. Hopefully they get some people with moral standards to replace these sick fucks.

 

[Fenderputty]

Of course he's going to say he wish he did more. It sounds really bad to say "Sorry gaiz not my prob lol"

But the reality is, it WASN'T his problem if he wasn't the eyewitness. Being a close friend is irrelevant. Are you the eyewitness or not? If not, then it's not your place to run around running your mouth. The eyewitness has an obligation to tell the police about seeing a violation of the law. The fact that this is a police matter trumps friendship, football, team comradery, school spirit, and Joe Pa's celebrity influence.

It's funny you take this stance because the law would disagree. He did have both moral and legal obligations to run his mouth. Which he did. Most people are upset because of his lack of follow up post runnin his mouth. He continued to work with the man and saw him with children on campus for years. You're stance that he's some how vindicated of responsibility because he wasn't a direct witness is insane.

So you admit that the GA did not preform his responsibilities. There are a lot of should have, would have, and could haves, but at least Joe did something.

Wasn't enough. Everyone needs to go down. At least I'm not singeling someone out. Everyone from the President of the Uni down needs to go.

 

[dojokun]

You are being a bit dense. He is an educator with a obligation to respond appropriately to any sort of sexual misconduct forced upon a child or student. Seeing Sandusky stroll in with his Second Mile boy of the week for more than a decade afterward easily determines that he did not do enough.

Personal attack.

 

[Sanjuro]

I don't know. I'm saying that I'd rather not jump to conclusions and would rather wait for the further investigation to reveal more of the facts.

For what information? What are you talking about? We already know enough. Anything more to be revealed is just going to be more fuel to the fire.

Personal attack.

Not really.

 

[samus i am]

If you see a grown man engaged in sex with a minor of ten years old and you chose to do anything other than physically remove the child from the assault then you're a horrible human being and deserves all the scorn and punishment that can be legally brought down upon you.

If you hear of accusations, repeatedly, for years of a member of your staff engaging in inappropriate sexual contact with little children and you do not investigation them seriously and just sweep it under a rug, you're a horrible human being and deserves all the scorn and punishment that can be legally brought down upon you.

1. It was McQueary who saw it and only told Joe.

2. Joe was not involved in the 1998 case. He heard about the 2002 incident and immediately reported it.

 

[dojokun]

It's funny you take this stance because the law would disagree. He did have both moral and legal obligations to run his mouth. Which he did. Most people are upset because of his lack of follow up post runnin his mouth. He continued to work with the man and saw him with children on campus for years. You're stance that he's some how vindicated of responsibility because he wasn't a direct witness is insane.

Maybe we read different articles, but I read that Joe Pa heard about this after Sandusky left the program.

 

[Vire]

I don't know. I'm saying that I don't want to jump to conclusions and would rather wait for the further investigation to reveal more of the facts.

Jump to conclusions? Did you read the 20 some odd page report?

That was more than enough to condemn these chuckleheads. Any further information is only going to make matters worse.

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

It isn't his problem that he was told that someone who no longer works for him was seen breaking the law. It's not up to him to play detective. Eyewitness needs to go the police, not his employer.

Could Paterno maybe have had Sandusky banned from the campus grounds entirely at some point in the intervening nine years?

Where are you getting this stuff? It seems to me that after the 2002 incident Sandusky moved his predatory activities to the high school he coached at.

He showed up in 2007 with a boy to a closed practice, unless I'm confusing something. That's not an implication that he was molesting the boy on campus, but he did show up to an invite-only (presumably) practice where at least two other people there were reasonably sure he had raped a kid.

 

[tycoonheart]

So you admit that the GA did not preform his responsibilities. There are a lot of should have, would have, and could haves, but at least Joe did something.

Of course the GA didn't do what he was supposed to do, that is to inform the police of what he witnessed. But I don't think Paterno did enough either. If the GA came to him and told him what he witnessed, Joe should've said "Ok, get in the car, we're going to the police station."

 

[Vire]

To everyone defending Paterno - sounds like you guys need to get your facts straight and read the report itself.

Right Here.

 

[C Jones]

Where are you getting this stuff? It seems to me that after the 2002 incident Sandusky moved his predatory activities to the high school he coached at.

Many people are making assumptions that Sandusky and Paterno were having direct, daily contact for the past 10 years which, as far as I can tell, is not the case. In fact, I believe it was reported that Sandusky and Paterno have not been on speaking terms since Sandusky's retirement.

Again, he brought a victim to closed practices at Penn State.

 

[dojokun]

Could Paterno maybe have had Sandusky banned from the campus grounds entirely at some point in the intervening nine years?



He showed up in 2007 with a boy to a closed practice, unless I'm confusing something. That's not an implication that he was molesting the boy on campus, but he did show up to an invite-only (presumably) practice where at least two other people there were reasonably sure he had raped a kid.

Well I swore that I read that Joe Pa only heard about it after Sandusky left the program. If that's wrong then nevermind.

 

[Lost Fragment]

When it's all said and done, all this will make for a really interesting case study on how certain environments can influence otherwise good people into turning a blind eye to reprehensible things.

 

[Meier]

Coaches are public figures. Very public. Public figures get fired for morality related things all the time. Paterno's lack of continued action in the face of such an incident is morally reprehensible and therefore he (and everyone else involved) must be removed immediately. This is simply not open to debate. Take off your blinders.

 

[Ducarmel]

So what happened after the investigation once Sardusky was reported to the higher ups? What was done, how did nothing come out of it after an eye witness account?

This reminds me those allegations of rapes that happens on campus and the school would just silence the girl from going to the police and the rapist would be suspended for a semester and be back in school after the suspension to go on and rape again.

 

[drspeedy]

If I read correctly Sandusky was no longer with the program when the grad assistant reported this. If I'm wrong about that, then I will just agree 100% with your post.

I don't disagree, Sandusky wasn't affiliated directly with the team at that point, but that honestly doesn't change the obvious fact that his actions directly impacted Joe and the football program. That program is JoePa's responsibility to protect, regardless.

Wouldn't have mattered if it was a janitor, the repercussions are the same for the PSU football program, and that's Joe's to protect as head coach.

 

[Sanjuro]

So what happened after the investigation once Sardusky was reported to the higher ups? What was done, how did nothing come out of it after an eye witness account?

This reminds me those allegations of rapes that happens on campus and the school would just silence the girl from going to the police and the rapist would be suspended for a semester and be back in school after the suspension to go on and rape again.

I've posted this in the thread probably a half dozen times now. Read the entire grand jury report. All the information you need is in there.

http://cbschicago.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/sandusky-grand-jury-presentment.pdf

Well I swore that I read that Joe Pa only heard about it after Sandusky left the program. If that's wrong then nevermind.

So you admit to being dense to the facts? Stop making personal attacks on yourself. I believe in you!

 

[Mammoth Jones]

To everyone defending Paterno - sounds like you guys need to get your facts straight and read the report itself.

Right Here.

Agreed. If you haven't read the entire grand jury indictment then you honestly shouldn't even be chiming in. Just don't eat lunch while reading it. It's very graphic and just disgusts me. But seeing how the staff "reacted" to it puts it all on the table.

 

[dojokun]

I don't disagree, Sandusky wasn't affiliated directly with the team at that point, but that honestly doesn't change the obvious fact that his actions directly impacted Joe and the football program. That program is JoePa's responsibility to protect, regardless.

Wouldn't have mattered if it was a janitor, the repercussions are the same for the PSU football program, and that's Joe's to protect as head coach.

Seems to me that it's only football related because the public treats it like it. Not in any way would it be predictable that Sandusky raping kids using Sandusky's organization would be football related.

 

[Meier]

Well I swore that I read that Joe Pa only heard about it after Sandusky left the program. If that's wrong then nevermind.

Sandusky retired because he was accused (rightfully so by his own admission) of performing indecent activities with a boy. Paterno knew all about Sandusky a full year (at least) before he left the program.

 

[gutshot]

For what information? What are you talking about? We already know enough. Anything more to be revealed is just going to be more fuel to the fire.

I'm saying you can't claim that Sandusky was showing up with a "boy of the week" to PSU campus in plain view of Joe Paterno. We don't know that.

Jump to conclusions? Did you read the 20 some odd page report?

That was more than enough to condemn these chuckleheads. Any further information is only going to make matters worse.

Yes, I read it. It doesn't say anything about whether Paterno or Sandusky came in contact with each other following the 2002 incident.

He showed up in 2007 with a boy to a closed practice, unless I'm confusing something. That's not an implication that he was molesting the boy on campus, but he did show up to an invite-only (presumably) practice where at least two other people there were reasonably sure he had raped a kid.

AFAIK this wasn't in the grand jury's report. Not saying it didn't happen, just that I want to wait for a proper investigation to reveal these sorts of details before criticizing Paterno and McQueary.

 

[dojokun]

I've posted this in the thread probably a half dozen times now. Read the entire grand jury report. All the information you need is in there.

http://cbschicago.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/sandusky-grand-jury-presentment.pdf



So you admit to being dense to the facts? Stop making personal attacks on yourself. I believe in you!

Again, please stop with the personal attacks. An adult would have simply posted/linked any contradictory articles, not responded with "So you admit to being dense with the facts?"

By your definition, everyone here is dense to the facts, unless someone here personally witnessed every rape and every exchange of information concerning the rapes.

 

[gutshot]

Sandusky retired because he was accused (rightfully so by his own admission) of performing indecent activities with a boy. Paterno knew all about Sandusky a full year (at least) before he left the program.

Not according to the grand jury report. According to the report Sandusky retired because he was informed that Paterno would not be retiring any time soon and therefore he wouldn't be taking over as head coach. Also he wanted to take advantage of a nice pension plan that was in effect at the time. No where does it say that Paterno knew about the '98 investigation.

What you are saying is just speculation. Compelling speculation? Absolutely. Something that should be investigated further? Certainly. But until then, I can't say with certainty that that was the case.

EDIT: Correction: Schultz testified that Sandusky retired because "Paterno felt there needed to be a coaching change."

I confused another report I had heard about Sandusky's retiring, in which Paterno renigged on an earlier promise to Sandusky to step down as head coach, which angered Sandusky and caused him to leave the program. This was also why, reportedly, Sandusky and Paterno were not on speaking terms since that time.