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[Barrett2]

The mere fact that the grad student reported to Paterno that he saw Sandusky sodomizing a 10 year old kid, and then Paterno's response is to relay it to the AD as "fondling" is just bizarre.

Curley and Schultz should both face serious jail time for not reporting to the police. Just disgusting.

 

[Salaadin]

Not according to the grand jury report. According to the report Sandusky retired because he was informed that Paterno would not be retiring any time soon and therefore he wouldn't be taking over as head coach. Also he wanted to take advantage of a nice pension plan that was in effect at the time. No where does it say that Paterno knew about the '98 investigation.

What you are saying is just speculation. Compelling speculation? Absolutely. Something that should be investigated further? Certainly. But until then, I can't say with certainty that that was the case.

PSU lawyers said that paterno was never told about the 98 incident

 

[Sanjuro]

Again, please stop with the personal attacks. An adult would have simply posted/linked any contradictory articles, not responded with "So you admit to being dense with the facts?"

By your definition, everyone here is dense to the facts, unless someone here personally witnessed every rape and every exchange of information concerning the rapes.

I would say you are inaccurate on almost all of your points. My initial response to you was to educate you with more information, every post since then has been borderline delusional.

 

[dojokun]

I would say you are inaccurate on almost all of your points. My initial response to you was to educate you with more information, every post since then has been borderline delusional.

You could have expressed your overreaction to disagreement witnout making it personal.

 

[samus i am]

The mere fact that the grad student reported to Paterno that he saw Sandusky sodomizing a 10 year old kid, and then Paterno's response is to relay it to the AD as "fondling" is just bizarre.

Curley and Schultz should both face serious jail time for not reporting to the police. Just disgusting.

Unless I was misinformed, I read that McQueary did NOT specifically mention what he saw in the showers to Joe. Curley and Schultz later found out when they questioned McQueary later, so they are not off the hook.

 

[Sanjuro]

You could have expressed your overreaction to disagreement witnout making it personal.

...

Unless I was misinformed, I read that McQueary did NOT specifically mention what he saw in the showers to Joe. Curley and Schultz later found out when they questioned McQueary later, so they are not off the hook.

You are misinformed. Read Victim 2 in the jury report.

EDIT: lawblob posted it.

 

[Barrett2]

Unless I was misinformed, I read that McQueary did NOT specifically mention what he saw in the showers to Joe. Curley and Schultz later found out when they questioned McQueary later, so they are not off the hook.

 

[samus i am]

http://i.imgur.com/GVfXq.png"]http://i.imgur.com/GVfXq.png

That does not mention what was said. Which is my whole point.

 

[Sanjuro]

That does not mention what was said. Which is my whole point.

I've lost all faith in you. How can you read that paragraph and then post this?

 

[beast786]

What is sad that he was the father figure to all. And that is not how a father would have reacted.

One big concern I have is how both McQueary and Sandusky were still within the program. Obviously either one was a lier or the other was a rapist. So if he didnt believe Mcqueary than obviously why would he still let someone work with him ho makes such a horrific shit up?.

And if he did believe McQueary, then how in the world he still let Sandusky be part of the thing.

It makes absolutely no sense.

 

[samus i am]

I've lost all faith in you. How can you read that paragraph and then post this?

I've read over 20 articles on this so it will take some time to find. Apparently McQueary only said he saw Sandusky doing something "inappropriate" with a minor.

 

[Barrett2]

That does not mention what was said. Which is my whole point.

It would have clearly specified if the kid changed what he had reported seeing to some ambiguous statement.

- "I saw X, Y, and Z"

- lawblob then reported what he saw to Paterno

- "Who'se to say what he told Paterno??! He could have said anything."

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

That does not mention what was said. Which is my whole point.

Now that is the definition of being dense. If McQueary had reported less than what he testified to earlier in the report, *it would be noted in the report*.

 

[beast786]

I've read over 20 articles on this so it will take some time to find. Apparently McQueary only said he saw Sandusky doing something "inappropriate" with a minor.

And I am sure when he said "inappropriate". The conversation just eneded. Without any further explanation what "inappropriate " was. Makes all the sense in the world.

 

[Sanjuro]

What is sad that he was the father figure to all. And that is not how a father would have reacted.

One big concern I have is how both McQueary and Sandusky were still within the program. Obviously either one was a lier or the other was a rapist. So if he didnt believe Mcqueary than obviously why would he still let someone work with him ho makes such a horrific shit up?.

And if he did believe McQueary, then how in the world he still let Sandusky be part of the thing.

It makes absolutely no sense.

Well he gave McQueary a higher position in the following years, so yeah it's hard to imagine Paterno having a negative opinion on him.

I even cut McQueary a little slack initially. I understand that he wasn't in a power position. His actions going forward make him look simply terrible. Even with that you can still argue his initial reactions.

 

[gutshot]

What is sad that he was the father figure to all. And that is not how a father would have reacted.

One big concern I have is how both McQueary and Sandusky were still within the program. Obviously either one was a lier or the other was a rapist. So if he didnt believe Mcqueary than obviously why would he still let someone work with him ho makes such a horrific shit up?.

And if he did believe McQueary, then how in the world he still let Sandusky be part of the thing.

It makes absolutely no sense.

Sandusky left the football program in 1999, 3 years before this incident occurred.

 

[Mrbob]

I think a statement in page 11 of the grand jury presentation pretty much damns them all:

"Schultz testied that Sandusky retired when Paterno felt it was time to make a coaching change and also to take advantage of an enhanced retirement benefit under Sandusky's state pension."

Now why would Paterno want Sandusky gone? In 1998 Penn State had one of the better defensive seasons. They also shut out their opponent in a bowl game to victory. How does a defensive coordinator lose his job out of the blue like this? Unless the head coach and everyone else involved knew something else was going on. The fact that Sandusky still was allowed access all over Penn State facilities is sickening.

 

[samus i am]

Here it is, and don't call me dense either:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/07/s...-how-paterno-reacted.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

Earlier Sunday, Paterno issued a statement insisting that the graduate assistant had not told him of the extent of the sexual assault that he said he witnessed, only that he had seen something inappropriate involving Sandusky and the child.

“As Coach Sandusky was retired from our coaching staff at the time, I referred the matter to university administrators,” Paterno said in the statement.

“I understand that people are upset and angry, but let’s be fair and let the legal process unfold,” Paterno said.

Paterno’s son Scott said in an interview:

“The appropriate people were contacted by Joe. That was the chain of command. It was a retired employee and it falls under the university’s auspices, not the football auspices.”

 

[Fenderputty]

I've read over 20 articles on this so it will take some time to find. Apparently McQueary only said he saw Sandusky doing something "inappropriate" with a minor.

Who the fuck cares if McQueary said "innaproppriate" or he said "rape"?

It's a 50+ year old man and a 10 year old boy in a shower. Nothing "innapropriate" is OK and doesn't alleviate Joe of anything.

 

[Barrett2]

Here it is, and don't call me dense either:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/07/s...-how-paterno-reacted.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all



Paterno’s son Scott said in an interview:

So you choose to believe a PR statement from Paterno over the official Grand Jury report?

Makes sense.

 

[bigtroyjon]

Here it is, and don't call me dense either:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/07/s...-how-paterno-reacted.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all



Paterno’s son Scott said in an interview:

LOL at using Paterno's covering his ass statement as some sort of evidence.

Gotta be trolling.

 

[Sanjuro]

Here it is, and don't call me dense either:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/07/s...-how-paterno-reacted.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all



Paterno’s son Scott said in an interview:

The grand jury report holds much more weight than a random statement by Paterno. If anything Paterno could be summoned and possibly face obstruction of justice charges depending on how much farther this progresses.

 

[Hari Seldon]

It doesn't matter what he did or did not say to Paterno, since Paterno passed the buck up the food chain and they met directly with McQueary. It wasn't a game of telephone, Paterno just learned enough to pass the buck onwards. The only "moral" standard that Paterno broke was that later on, he should have asked why nothing was done. Passing the buck is super minor since if they would have launched a campus police investigation immediately, the delay would have only been from the time it took McQueary to meet with Joe to the time it took him to meet with Curly and Shultz.

 

[samus i am]

Who the fuck cares if McQueary said "innaproppriate" or he said "rape"?

It's a 50+ year old man and a 10 year old boy in a shower. Nothing "innapropriate" is OK and doesn't alleviate Joe of anything.

I certainly don't care. Either way, Joe reported, it as he should have.

 

[C Jones]

Here it is, and don't call me dense either:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/07/s...-how-paterno-reacted.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all



Paterno’s son Scott said in an interview:

Post the whole Scott quote:

“From my imperfect recollection, once he referred it off, I do not believe he had a second conversation about it,” Scott Paterno said of his father and how he handled any follow-up on the allegation. He added: “The appropriate people were contacted by Joe. That was the chain of command. It was a retired employee and it falls under the university’s auspices, not the football auspices.”

There it is. Referred it off and never spoke about it again.

 

[gutshot]

I think a statement in page 11 of the grand jury presentation pretty much damns them all:

"Schultz testied that Sandusky retired when Paterno felt it was time to make a coaching change and also to take advantage of an enhanced retirement benefit under Sandusky's state pension."

Now why would Paterno want Sandusky gone? In 1998 Penn State had one of the better defensive seasons. They also shut out their opponent in a bowl game to victory. How does a defensive coordinator lose his job out of the blue like this? Unless the coach and everyone else involved knew something else was going on. The fact that Sandusky still was allowed access all over Penn State facilities is sickening.

A report I heard was that Paterno had promised Sandusky he would step down as head coach and Sandusky would take over sometime around then. Apparently Paterno changed his mind and wished to remain as head coach, which angered Sandusky enough for him to leave the program.

So that is one explanation. But I agree it seems suspicious and it should be investigated.

 

[bigtroyjon]

A report I heard was that Paterno had promised Sandusky he would step down as head coach and Sandusky would take over sometime around then. Apparently Paterno changed his mind and wished to remain as head coach, which angered Sandusky enough for him to leave the program.

So that is one explanation. But I agree it seems suspicious and it should be investigated.

So basically you admit that you haven't actually looked at any of the facts in the case and are just making shit up as you go along.

 

[Hari Seldon]

I think a statement in page 11 of the grand jury presentation pretty much damns them all:

"Schultz testied that Sandusky retired when Paterno felt it was time to make a coaching change and also to take advantage of an enhanced retirement benefit under Sandusky's state pension."

Now why would Paterno want Sandusky gone? In 1998 Penn State had one of the better defensive seasons. They also shut out their opponent in a bowl game to victory. How does a defensive coordinator lose his job out of the blue like this? Unless the head coach and everyone else involved knew something else was going on. The fact that Sandusky still was allowed access all over Penn State facilities is sickening.

There was a real police investigation into the 1998 incident, it wasn't a university investigation. So whether or not Joe actually knew about the police investigation is up for debate. Either way, he was not charged with anything by the actual police.

 

[gutshot]

It doesn't matter what he did or did not say to Paterno, since Paterno passed the buck up the food chain and they met directly with McQueary. It wasn't a game of telephone, Paterno just learned enough to pass the buck onwards. The only "moral" standard that Paterno broke was that later on, he should have asked why nothing was done. Passing the buck is super minor since if they would have launched a campus police investigation immediately, the delay would have only been from the time it took McQueary to meet with Joe to the time it took him to meet with Curly and Shultz.

Something else that should be noted, Paterno told Curley and Schultz about McQueary's report the very next morning after he hears of it. It then takes Curley and Schultz a week and a half to call McQueary in for an interview.

Again, that points to Curley and Schultz being the ones who wanted this covered this up. Not JoePa.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Hey guys, do you want to hear the truth? Or do you want to see me beat Nebraska?!?

 

[Mrbob]

A report I heard was that Paterno had promised Sandusky he would step down as head coach and Sandusky would take over sometime around then. Apparently Paterno changed his mind and wished to remain as head coach, which angered Sandusky enough for him to leave the program.

So that is one explanation. But I agree it seems suspicious and it should be investigated.

Yeah that part is in the report too. My question though is why would Sandusky step down over this? If he wants to be a head coach so badly I'm sure Paterno could put in a good word to other colleges for him. Paterno is the one who made the decision to get rid of him. I'm sure friction could be a part of it, but this is a normal occurrence on teams. Assistant coaches want to be head coaches.

 

[Sanjuro]

There was a real police investigation into the 1998 incident, it wasn't a university investigation. So whether or not Joe actually knew about the police investigation is up for debate. Either way, he was not charged with anything by the actual police.

The DA dropped all of the charges. In 2005 that DA vanished and has never been seen since. So much for that.

 

[Vire]

President to be voted out or resigned by the end of the day.

Just heard on ESPN.

 

[Hari Seldon]

Tom Ridge is rumored to be the next president of PSU.

 

[Fenderputty]

I certainly don't care. Either way, Joe reported, it as he should have.

And then did nothing. Which is what most poeple are upset about.

 

[gutshot]

So basically you admit that you haven't actually looked at any of the facts in the case and are just making shit up as you go along.

No, where did you get that? I DO know the facts and am going strictly by the grand jury's report. Any other reports are secondary and deserve further investigation before being regarded as fact.

 

[Pastry]

President to be voted out or resigned by the end of the day.

Just heard on ESPN.

Not enough LOLs in the world if he goes (which it looks like he will) and JoePa stays.

 

[samus i am]

And then did nothing. Which is what most poeple are upset about.

I get it. He could have done more, but I don't think he deserves to be fired. I guess he is going to retire now so it doesn't matter.

 

[gutshot]

Yeah that part is in the report too. My question though is why would Sandusky step down over this? If he wants to be a head coach so badly I'm sure Paterno could put in a good word to other colleges for him. Paterno is the one who made the decision to get rid of him. I'm sure friction could be a part of it, but this is a normal occurrence on teams. Assistant coaches want to be head coaches.

Don't know. Like I said, that whole scenario is suspicious and deserves more investigation. Until then, I will withhold from making snap judgements and jumping to conclusions.

 

[Hari Seldon]

Not enough LOLs in the world if he goes (which it looks like he will) and JoePa stays.

He is far more culpable than JoePa, being that his AD and Vice President have been indicted for actions directly related to their actual jobs at the university.

 

[C Jones]

President to be voted out or resigned by the end of the day.

Just heard on ESPN.

Deserved.

 

[Mrbob]

Don't know. Like I said, that whole scenario is suspicious and deserves more investigation. Until then, I will withhold from making snap judgements and jumping to conclusions.

We have 23 pages of grand jury testimony report to go over. It isn't tough to put the pieces of the puzzle together. Paterno wasn't as senile then as he is now.

 

[Vire]

So is Paterno going to use the President as a scape goat? Hahaha....

 

[Ninja Scooter]

I get it. He could have done more, but I don't think he deserves to be fired. I guess he is going to retire now so it doesn't matter.

He kept McQuery on the staff yet let Sandusky keep coming around? And didn't question anything? He cant claim to be that naive. Everybody with any kind of power or authority over the football program at that time needs to be gone yesterday.

 

[gutshot]

We have 23 pages of grand jury testimony report to go over. It isn't tough to put the pieces of the puzzle together. Paterno wasn't as senile then as he is now.

Yes, but the grand jury was (rightly) focused on the allegations against Sandusky. There was very little time spent on investigating how much the university and Paterno knew about Sandusky's actions prior to the 2002 incident. I would like to know more before accusing Paterno of a cover-up.

 

[Hari Seldon]

So is Paterno going to use the President as a scape goat? Hahaha....

No, the President was the direct person in charge of the people who covered up the investigation.

 

[Mrbob]

Yes, but the grand jury was (rightly) focused on the allegations against Sandusky. There was very little time spent on investigating how much the university and Paterno knew about Sandusky's actions prior to the 2002 incident. I would like to know more before accusing Paterno of a cover-up.

I feel like we are going in circles now in this discussion. Joe *is* Penn State football. Nothing goes down without him having knowledge of the situation. 1998 happened, and Sandusky got the boot. 2002 was on his campus.

 

[Sanjuro]

Yes, but the grand jury was (rightly) focused on the allegations against Sandusky. There was very little time spent on investigating how much the university and Paterno knew about Sandusky's actions prior to the 2002 incident. I would like to know more before accusing Paterno of a cover-up.

Is being aware about one child getting raped not comparable to him knowing about two? Three? Six?

 

[SolidSnakex]

Yes, but the grand jury was (rightly) focused on the allegations against Sandusky. There was very little time spent on investigating how much the university and Paterno knew about Sandusky's actions prior to the 2002 incident. I would like to know more before accusing Paterno of a cover-up.

Do you think that it was a coincidence that Sandusky stepped down a year after the investigation?

 

[Sanjuro]

Do you think that it was a coincidence that Sandusky stepped down a year after the investigation?

Sadly it could be. It almost appears that he would have had a more difficult time starting up a child sex ring elsewhere.