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[Hari Seldon]

There is evidence in the grand jury report that the description of what happened in the shower was changed to make it seem less severe at some point between McQueary witnessing it and Paterno reporting it to his boss. The only question there is whether you believe this happened before or after McQueary met with Paterno.

That does not matter in the boss's cover up.

Once again, the time line went like this:

1. McQueary sees incident, talks to dad.
2. Next day McQueary tells Paterno something???
3. Paterno immediately calls AD Curly and tells him something???
4. Curly and Shultz meet with McQueary directly, Joe Paterno has no more involvement at all.
5. The ball is now in Curly and Shultz's hands, and they stonewall the investigation.

There was no "telephone" effect of JoePa downplaying the incident, because Curly and Shultz met with McQueary directly.

 

[Stinkles]

I haven't read the report nor do I really have time at the moment to read the report. I've asked several times if new details have emerged considering people are acting like Paterno personally fondled children, but was told by many that no such details exist.

You need to read the Grand Jury report. There's no room for wiggling in it. JoePa is horribly indicted there. Go read it. It's about 15 minutes before nausea creeps in.

 

[Fenderputty]

Be honest. Take your time and think about this.

Do you think JoePa knew about the 1998 investigation?

Even if he didn't, he knew about the 2002 one. That's enough.

The BS excuse of, "if his superiors didn't do anything, then logically Joe must assume it was taken care of" is just that. BS.

This would imply his GA lied to him. None of the actions that happened from 2002 on would imply this to be the case.

 

[Dude Abides]

Paterno didn't walk in on a kid getting raped and decide to call his dad, doing nothing until the next day, instead of intervening personally or calling the cops on the spot. McQueary did.

So there is some huge moral gap between hearing about a kid getting raped and doing the bare minimum and seeing it and doing the bare minimum? Seems like hair-splitting that is at least counterbalanced by the relative ability of the two men to have made sure this was taken seriously.

 

[samus i am]

Even if he didn't, he knew about the 2002 one. That's enough.

The BS excuse of, "if his superiors didn't do anything, then logically Joe must assume it was taken care of" is just that. BS.

This would imply his GA lied to him. None of the actions that happened from 2002 on would imply this to be the case.

If McQueary really did downplay the story and explained it to Joe in less inflammatory terms, then it makes perfect sense.

 

[Sanjuro]

There is a huge misconception going on right now. You guys believe that people aren't asking for McQueary's removal which is simply not the case.

 

[C Jones]

Even if he didn't, he knew about the 2002 one. That's enough.

The BS excuse of, "if his superiors didn't do anything, then logically Joe must assume it was taken care of" is just that. BS.

This would imply his GA lied to him. None of the actions that happened from 2002 on would imply this to be the case.

Oh I completely agree. But I have a hard time seeing how even the most die hard defenders of JoePa can continue to back him if it comes to light he knew about '98 too.

 

[indigo-cyclops]

I haven't read the report nor do I really have time at the moment to read the report. I've asked several times if new details have emerged considering people are acting like Paterno personally fondled children, but was told by many that no such details exist.

Read the report, then join the discussion.

 

[Fenderputty]

If McQueary really did downplay the story and explained it to Joe in less inflammatory terms, then it makes perfect sense.

Doesn't excuse it. How can you downplay a 50 year old man and a 10 year old boy in a shower?

PLease explain this.

 

[scorcho]

If McQueary really did downplay the story and explained it to Joe in less inflammatory terms, then it makes perfect sense.

why would he go through the ordeal of telling Paterno, but then downplay or dissemble on what he saw?

 

[Sanjuro]

If McQueary really did downplay the story and explained it to Joe in less inflammatory terms, then it makes perfect sense.

So you are saying that McQueary lied to a grand jury.

 

[Fenderputty]

why would he go through the ordeal of telling Paterno, but then downplay or dissemble on what he saw?

It doesn't matter. You can't downplay a 50 year old man and a 10 year old boy in a shower. There isn't one thing that could be happening that would be considered appropriate in such a situation.

 

[eznark]

Paterno ran every aspect of the program for a half century. The idea that he would just sit idly by as the fate of his successor is determined is disgustingly, laughably naive.

 

[samus i am]

why would he go through the ordeal of telling Paterno, but then downplay or dissemble on what he saw?

Why would Paterno report it to Schultz if he wanted to cover it up?

 

[ZedIndyLil]

There is a huge misconception going on right now. You guys believe that people aren't asking for McQueary's removal which is simply not the case.

Has he said anything since the GJ report came out?

I'm concerned that with JoPa out, attention to the other, less well-known, players in this conspiracy of silence will dissipate. I mean, if idiots like Ashton Kutcher didn't even know WHY Paterno was ousted, will anyone really know who McQueary is or care that he's on the sidelines?

 

[Kusagari]

Maybe McQueary downplayed it from rape to fondling, that doesn't change the fact that Paterno apparently thought it was enough to immediately go to the police about it.

 

[Sanjuro]

Has he said anything since the GJ report came out?

I'm concerned that with JoPa out, attention to the other, less well-known, players in this conspiracy of silence will dissipate. I mean, if idiots like Ashton Kutcher didn't even know WHY Paterno was ousted, will anyone really know who McQueary is or care that he's on the sidelines?

McQueary? I doubt he wants to speak a word to anybody. Him not being removed is only leading to more speculation on what else he knows about the program.

 

[beast786]

Why would Paterno report it to Schultz if he wanted to cover it up?

Or maybe he reported to schultz and they both covered it up. Hence, the reason Joe Pa did not do anything afterward and still allowed Sandusky in the campus.

The cover up only has a chance if everyone who had information kept shhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Which they all did.

 

[crowphoenix]

Why would Paterno report it to Schultz if he wanted to cover it up?

I'm not saying Paterno did cover it up, but if he knew Schultz and Curely would cover it up, why wouldn't he go to them.

Again, I don't think Paterno is guilty of anything legally wrong. I simply think he's morally reprehensible and that he needed to be fired.

 

[Fenderputty]

Why would Paterno report it to Schultz if he wanted to cover it up?

You never answered my question. How can McQueary downplay tthe scenario he saw?

 

[C Jones]

Paterno ran every aspect of the program for a half century. The idea that he would just sit idly by as the fate of his successor is determined is disgustingly, laughably naive.

Just so you know, in this thread JoePa is either Mr Penn State who says whatever is on his mind and runs the school, or, just a football coach who has to follow chain of command and who can't be bothered being a superhero or detective.

Defenders will use whatever version they need at the time, and sometimes they are both used in a single post.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Karissa, a Penn State journalism student, "protestor" and a rep of the Penn State radio program called into Boomer (yes, Esiason) and Carton Show this morning. Carton ripped her to shreds. Audio:

http://nyc.podcast.play.it/media/d0/d0/d0/dZ/d7/dN/d6/Z7N6_3.MP3?authtok?dl=1

GOD DAYUM.

He roasted her. I agree 100%.

 

[beast786]

Just so you know, in this thread JoePa is either Mr Penn State who says whatever is on his mind and runs the school, or, just a football coach who has to follow chain of command and who can't be bothered being a superhero or detective.

Defenders will use whatever version they need at the time, and sometimes they are both used in a single post.

Who in PSU thinks Joe Pa was not a God in PSU?

 

[samus i am]

You never answered my question. How can McQueary downplay tthe scenario he saw?

He reported "inappropriate conduct" or activity that him "uncomfortable".

 

[Sanjuro]

He reported "inappropriate conduct" or activity that him "uncomfortable".

Again, you are saying McQueary lied to a grand jury?

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Maybe McQueary downplayed it from rape to fondling

I FUCKING LOL'D.

So if a grown man tells you that he saw another grown man "fondling" a 10 year old boy instead of having full-blown sex with him, it makes more sense to be apathetic towards the event? To not call the police immediately?

C'mon, son.

 

[tokkun]

That does not matter in the boss's cover up.

Once again, the time line went like this:

1. McQueary sees incident, talks to dad.
2. Next day McQueary tells Paterno something???
3. Paterno immediately calls AD Curly and tells him something???
4. Curly and Shultz meet with McQueary directly, Joe Paterno has no more involvement at all.
5. The ball is now in Curly and Shultz's hands, and they stonewall the investigation.

There was no "telephone" effect of JoePa downplaying the incident, because Curly and Shultz met with McQueary directly.

First, the post I replied to was asking whether Paterno "tried" to cover it up, not whether he succeeded.

Second, it's possible that step (2.5) in your timeline could be "Paterno convinces McQueary not to use the term 'rape' and instead say 'something inappropriate or sexual in nature'. Curley and Schultz claim that this is what McQueary told them, although the grand jury obviously felt that this was not true. I imagine that this is a point we will hear more about in their perjury trials.

 

[beast786]

He reported "inappropriate conduct" or activity that him "uncomfortable".

I thought GJ reports says that MC told him in much more detail than that. Could be wrong.

 

[mr. puppy]

have you all seen this yet: http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=ycn-10407023

Madden stated that two "prominent columnists" are currently investigating a rumor that Jerry Sandusky's Second Mile Foundation, a non-profit organization aimed to serve underprivileged youths, was "pimping out young boys to rich (Penn State) donors."

 

[C Jones]

Who in PSU thinks Joe Pa was not a God in PSU?

They forget he's a God when they argue he's somehow oblivious to what's happening in his school and that because he followed chain of command he did enough.

They think he's a God but are baffled he's being held to a higher moral standard. Its contradictory.

 

[samus i am]

Again, you are saying McQueary lied to a grand jury?

Someone is lying. I quoted that sentence directly from the grand jury report.

 

[Sanjuro]

Sports Media Asks Molestation Victims What This Means For Joe Paterno's Legacy

 

[crowphoenix]

have you all seen this yet: http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=ycn-10407023

There was a clip of an interview with Madden where this was brought up, but I believe it's the first article linked here with the information.

Sports Media Asks Molestation Victims What This Means For Joe Paterno's Legacy

You son of a... You had me going there for a moment.

 

[beast786]

Someone is lying. I quoted that sentence directly from the grand jury report.

One got fired and another didnt after the investigation. So maybe we know who was lying.

 

[Sanjuro]

Someone is lying. I quoted that sentence directly from the grand jury report.

Well the problem with your argument here is you keep telling us we are making assumptions when your defense is based upon the same notion.

 

[Fenderputty]

He reported "inappropriate conduct" or activity that him "uncomfortable".

And you think this somehow alleviates Paterno from anything? Are you fucking kidding me?

If you can think of a situation in which you would let your 10 year old boy be in a shower with a 50 year old man then please contnue.

Otherwise you're one of the most intellectually dishonest people I've had the pleasure of speaking to online.

 

[Kusagari]

I FUCKING LOL'D.

So if a grown man tells you that he saw another grown man "fondling" a 10 year old boy instead of having full-blown sex with him, it makes more sense to be apathetic towards the event? To not call the police immediately?

C'mon, son.

I wasn't defending McQueary or Paterno. I was poking fun at how ridiculous it is to even bring up him 'downplaying' it when Paterno reported it regardless of what he said.

Unless we're going to assume McQueary, Paterno, etc all planned a cover up from that point.

 

[samus i am]

One got fired and another didnt after the investigation. So maybe we know who was lying.

LOL, no.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

He reported "inappropriate conduct" or activity that him "uncomfortable".

...WITH A 10 YEAR OLD BOY.

Even if true, if he's not smart enough to put 2 and 2 together, he's not smart enough to be at my University doing anything. Happy trails.

 

[JCreasy]

have you all seen this yet: http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=ycn-10407023

OMG I'm gonna fuckin throw-up!

This is a fuckin nightmare. This is horrible.

 

[samus i am]

And you think this somehow alleviates Paterno from anything? Are you fucking kidding me?

If you can think of a situation in which you would let your 10 year old boy be in a shower with a 50 year old man then please contnue.

Otherwise you're one of the most intellectually dishonest people I've had the pleasure of speaking to online.

What do you think I am trying to imply? Paterno took the information and gave it to Curley and Schultz. They then had a further interview with McQueary.

 

[C Jones]

...WITH A 10 YEAR OLD BOY.

Even if true, if he's not smart enough to put 2 and 2 together, he's not smart enough to be at my University doing anything. Happy trails.

Paterno apparently isn't smart enough to say "Wait, what?! Tell me EXACTLY what you saw."

 

[beast786]

LOL, no.

So they kept the liar. LOL, makes sense.

 

[samus i am]

Great write-up from the Huffington Post... Sandusky Scandal: National Media Misses The Mark

 

[scorcho]

Paterno apparently isn't smart enough to say "Wait, what?! Tell me EXACTLY what you saw."

the mental gymnastics involved in trying to excuse away Paterno's inaction and negligence is remarkable to watch.

 

[tokkun]

I wasn't defending McQueary or Paterno. I was poking fun at how ridiculous it is to even bring up him 'downplaying' it when Paterno reported it regardless of what he said.

Well, the problem here is that Sandusky was investigated for charges of "inappropriate conduct" in the showers with a young boy just 4 years before that incident and came out of it without being charged or impeded. So yes, there was reason for them to think that a claim of further "inappropriate conduct" would be treated different than "rape".

 

[bigtroyjon]

Someone is lying. I quoted that sentence directly from the grand jury report.

Funny stuff considering yesterday I told you that if you thought Curley and Schultz were 100% guilty it meant you believed McQueary.

Still caught in that corner I see.

 

[Dude Abides]

Why would Paterno report it to Schultz if he wanted to cover it up?

He never reported it to Schultz. Have you read the report?

 

[crowphoenix]

What do you think I am trying to imply? Paterno took the information and gave it to Curley and Schultz. They then had a further interview with McQueary.

Even if we take your view of events, Paterno was either willfully ignorant of what Sandusky was or he was grossly negligent. Both, I believe, would be adequate grounds for dismissal in this situation.

the mental gymnastics involved in trying to excuse away Paterno's inaction and negligence is remarkable to watch.

The most surprising comes from HarSon, whom I normally consider to be a very bright guy.

 

[Fenderputty]

What do you think I am trying to imply? Paterno took the information and gave it to Curley and Schultz. They then had a further interview with McQueary.

That somehowe McQueary "downplaying" a 50 year old man and a 10 year old boy in the shower alleviates Paterno of playing some roll with how 2002-2011 played out.