Support NeoGAF

[eudaemonic]

What does the grand jury report say.

You can read it here.

 

[Hari Seldon]

This sums up my feelings better than I have been able to in this thread:

http://joeposnanski.si.com/2011/11/10/the-end-of-paterno/

 

[Chumly]

Maybe in hiring & firing people, but he has no claim in any criminal matters.

Really? Because he sure as hell didn't think it would be important to report it to the police. The AD and vice president wouldn't have done anything without paternos permission anyways. This was not the first time his old pal had been accused of shit.

 

[wonderkins]

Paterno is SO the victim in all of this:

On March 1, 2002, a Penn State graduate student (“graduate assistant”) who was then 28 years old, entered the locker room at the Lasch Football Building on the University Park Campus on a Friday night before the beginning of Spring Break. The graduate assistant, who was familiar with Sandusky, was going to put some newly purchased sneakers in his locker and get some recruiting tapes to watch. It was about 9:30 p.m. As the graduate assistant entered the locker room doors, he was surprised to find the lights and showers on. He then heard rhythmic, slapping sounds. He believed the sounds to be those of sexual activity. As the graduate assistant put the sneakers in his locker, he looked into the shower. He saw a naked boy, Victim 2, whose age he estimated to be ten years old, with his hands up against the wall, being subjected to anal intercourse by a naked Sandusky. The graduate assistant was shocked but noticed that both Victim 2 and Sandusky saw him. The graduate assistant left immediately, distraught.

The graduate assistant went to his office and called his father, reporting to him what he had seen. His father told the graduate assistant to leave the building and come to his home. The graduate assistant and his father decided that the graduate assistant had to promptly report what he had seen to Coach Joe Paterno (“Paterno”), head football coach of Penn State. The next morning, a Saturday, the graduate assistant telephoned Paterno and went to Paterno’s home, where he reported what he had seen.

Joseph V. Paterno testified to receiving the graduate assistant’s report at his home on a Saturday morning. Paterno testified that the graduate assistant was very upset. Paterno called Tim Curley (“Curley”), Penn State Athletic Director and Paterno’s immediate superior, to his home the very next day, a Sunday, and reported to him that the graduate assistant had seen Jerry Sandusky in the Lasch Building showers fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy.

Who will protect JoePa and McQueary from the mob? Don't let this travesty of, err, something occur to JoePa!

So many tears have I shed for these latest victims of Jerry Sandusky.

 

[Spectral Glider]

Penn State Athletic Director and Paterno’s immediate superior, to his home the very next day, a Sunday, and reported to him that the graduate assistant had seen Jerry Sandusky in the Lasch Building showers fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy.

I find it odd that they felt the need to point out that it was done on a Sunday. So what?

 

[beast786]

Maybe in hiring & firing people, but he has no claim in any criminal matters.

Then why didnt he fire McQueary or Banned Sandusky from the facilities. Because either one was a liar or the other was a rapist. How can both be in his facility. Especially McQueary who got promoted.

The fact McQueary was promoted. Means they believed his side of the story. Yet still Joe Pa did nothing and still let Sandusky the child rapist to use the facility and keep bringing the kids.

 

[bionic77]

You can read it here.

I don't want to read that. Not because I am lazy, but because I just don't want to know the details.

Not to be a dick but mind summarizing what is in it that makes Joe look culpable?

 

[mre]

I find it odd that they felt the need to point out that it was done on a Sunday. So what?

They're precise with the timeline... they also mentioned Friday and Saturday by name.

 

[Brimstone]

The coach is truly a moron. Penn State needs to clean house.

 

[Crumpet Trumpet]

I keep reading the title as "Peen State." hah

 

[Spectral Glider]

I don't want to read that. Not because I am lazy, but because I just don't want to know the details.

Not to be a dick but mind summarizing what is in it that makes Joe look culpable?

It's painful, I had to stop after victim 4. As a new dad, you probably shouldn't read it, buddy.

Edit: Here's a timeline of events, that may help:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/09/penn-state-scandal-timeline-jerry-sandusky_n_1084204.html?ref=mostpopular

 

[bionic77]

It's painful, I had to stop after victim 4. As a new dad, you probably shouldn't read it, buddy.

That is what I figured.

I am only getting what I can hear from the news. I don't think I will be too involved in this case when it starts. Shit like this makes it hard to trust anyone as a parent. Not sure what to think of Joe. He should have been fired, but I am not sure he should be condemned. From what I know it seems to me like the cops fucked up more than anyone else by not bringing the charges earlier.

The most fucked up thing I saw/heard was the other day prior to a hearing there were a few attorneys talking about the whole fiasco in the hallway. Some old guy I never saw before asked what was wrong with someone taking a shower with a 10 year old boy. Needless to say it got very quiet in there after that. Is that a generational thing or is that guy a closet pedo?

 

[Dude Abides]

I find it odd that they felt the need to point out that it was done on a Sunday. So what?

I think it's because the presentment is written in such a way to present Paterno in as flattering a light as possible, given the circumstances. He took immediate action, even on the weekend!

 

[mre]

I think it's because the presentment is written in such a way to present Paterno in as flattering a light as possible, given the circumstances. He took immediate action, even on the weekend!

Not to mention the fact that it only took him 24 hours to decide to pass on McQueary's report to Curley!

 

[harSon]

I've read the document as instructed and it doesn't really have the damning evidence against Paterno that people seemed to insist that it did...

 

[markatisu]

The fact McQueary was promoted. Means they believed his side of the story. Yet still Joe Pa did nothing and still let Sandusky the child rapist to use the facility and keep bringing the kids.

I think that is my biggest issue, turning it over to the police is one thing but the fact nobody said "hey this guy is touching kids in some way that is NOT right so maybe we should not let him be around here anymore"

Its the fact that they basically enabled him to molest more children over the years that just makes a bad decision even worse and more tragic

 

[Spectral Glider]

That is what I figured.

I am only getting what I can hear from the news. I don't think I will be too involved in this case when it starts. Shit like this makes it hard to trust anyone as a parent. Not sure what to think of Joe. He should have been fired, but I am not sure he should be condemned. From what I know it seems to me like the cops fucked up more than anyone else by not bringing the charges earlier.

The most fucked up thing I saw/heard was the other day prior to a hearing there were a few attorneys talking about the whole fiasco in the hallway. Some old guy I never saw before asked what was wrong with someone taking a shower with a 10 year old boy. Needless to say it got very quiet in there after that. Is that a generational thing or is that guy a closet pedo?

I don't think Joe should be treated like his whole life was a sham. It's just hard to understand how a man that was so devoted to the school and with that much power and prestige just be so unaware about things going on around him. Maybe he really was. And if that's the case, then it's the school's fault for letting him get to that point and not getting somebody in there that could actually get things under control.

 

[Sanjuro]

I've read the document as instructed and it doesn't really have the damning evidence against Paterno that people seemed to insist that it did...

I guess you missed the part where a ten year old boy was anally raped in his showers.

 

[Battlezone]

ESPN just reported McQueary will not attend the game on Saturday.

 

[harSon]

I guess you missed the part where a ten year old boy was anally raped in his showers.

I could have sworn the molester was Sandusky, I must have been reading an altered version?

 

[Squirrel Killer]

A few years ago, I did tech support at a Fortune 500 company. One of the guys that I supported was seriously creepy. Old guy, but I frequently found him cruising mail order bride sites. One time, I was trying to install something on his computer's D:/ drive, but saw that it was full and the only folder on it was "XXX" (I didn't examine the folder, but I can guess what was in it.)

Eventually, I left the company, and a few months down the road the guy who took over for me asked me about creepy guy. I gave him my impression that he was a creep and all, and new IT guy told me that he saw creepy guy looking at child pron. I distinctly remember him saying, "At first, I didn't even comprehend what it was that he was looking at." I told him to report it to his IT supervisors, and he said he had and when the supervisors were going to sit on it, new IT guy threatened to go to the police. I reassured him that was the right thing to do. Later on, I heard rumors that creepy guy had fled and that the FBI were looking for him, but never really followed up on it.

Fast forward to today, and I have a credible report about a guy with child pron, a guy who's wealth, technical incompetence, and creepiness tell me he probably paid for it supporting the molestation of innocent kids, and who doesn't show up as a registered sex offender. In fact, I see that he's now on the board of a charity "committed to promoting educational excellence." What should I do?

Squirrel Killer, to clarify, the guy you have a credible report about today is the same creepy guy from years back? If so, do you still know new IT guy? He'd probably have hard evidence, would be a big help if you were to say something.

Sorry about the delay in replying, had to step away for a couple of hours with the family...

Several years ago:
* I knew creepy guy was creepy, but not illegally so
* New IT guy caught creepy guy in the act of viewing child porn
* New IT guy reported creepy guy to his superiors, threatened to go to cops if they didn't do anything about creepy guy, and told me
* Creepy guy supposedly fled from the FBI

That was the last I had heard about creepy guy until this Sandusky shit goes down. Remembering creepy guy, I google him:
* Not on any sex offender registry that I can find
* Sits on board of a charity closely aligned with a high school

This happened long ago enough that any statute of limitations has certainly passed, but the more I think about it, the more I wonder if creepy guy should be on an education-related board. My wife thinks I should email the department head who supervised creepy guy. I'm wondering if I'm over-reacting.

 

[DayShallCome]

I've read the document as instructed and it doesn't really have the damning evidence against Paterno that people seemed to insist that it did...

Agreed.

 

[Sanjuro]

I could have sworn the molester was Sandusky, I must have been reading an altered version?

So if you got that far, I'm assuming you read that Paterno was made aware of this happening correct?

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

I don't think Joe should be treated like his whole life was a sham. It's just hard to understand how a man that was so devoted to the school and with that much power and prestige just be so unaware about things going on around him. Maybe he really was. And if that's the case, then it's the school's fault for letting him get to that point and not getting somebody in there that could actually get things under control.

Spoiler

Person with Steelers avatar sort of defends Joe.

I'm sorry, but Joe fucked up, as did a ton of other people apparently.

 

[wonderkins]

Ah, I see indifference is as admirable as inaction to a few of you.

Oh wait, JoePa told his boss that a 10 year old was buttfucked in the showers. Well, he's in the clear. Phew!

 

[bionic77]

I don't think Joe should be treated like his whole life was a sham. It's just hard to understand how a man that was so devoted to the school and with that much power and prestige just be so unaware about things going on around him. Maybe he really was. And if that's the case, then it's the school's fault for letting him get to that point and not getting somebody in there that could actually get things under control.

It wasn't just Joe though. It seems like literally dozens of people encountered fucked up shit from Sandusky and yet nothing ever happened to the guy. Supposedly he admitted to crimes to the police like a decade earlier, then the DA disappears and nothing else is done for another 10 years. I heard a story about a principal who found out about Sandusky years earlier. The story said the principal was crying but it didn't say anything about him calling the police. And what about the parents? Did they know, when and did they go to the police? And what did the police do after hearing their complaints? Too many questions for me.

Paterno and Penn State deserve a ton of shit for this and I have no problem with everyone getting fired seeing how closely the guy was associated with the football program and university, but it also seems to me that the police should be bigger scapegoats than Paterno from what I have heard about it so far. You guys seem to know more about this case than I do so I might not know all the relevant facts.

 

[bob_arctor]

So if you got that far, I'm assuming you read that Paterno was made aware of this happening correct?

You are wasting your time. For him to even say that means it's a lost cause. smh.

 

[Sanjuro]

At least bionic is on the right page. There are other people with more guilt on their hands, but that doesn't smooth over the fact that pretty much everybody involved needs to go.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

So people, what do you think the NCAA should do? They need to act now!

 

[harSon]

So if you got that far, I'm assuming you read that Paterno was made aware of this happening correct?

I've already gone over this with you:

Joe Paterno was told by McQueary that he saw Sandusky raping a boy in the showers, a day after the incident had occurred. Joe Paterno told his superiors about the incident (and had they actually done their job, it should have ended there) thinking that they were decent human beings, but unknown to him, they were scumbags willing to protect a pedophile and cover up for his pedophile empire. We don't know what Joe Paterno was told after the 'investigation' had taken place, if anything, and that's information I feel is pretty fucking important to have before you can condemn Paterno in the manner that you're doing.

You told me to read the report, and having read the report, I've learned nothing new regarding Paterno that renders his firing and condemnation deserved. I personally consider any sexual contact between an adult and a child to be fucked up, so reading descriptive details about the rape did little to alter my opinions regarding the situation.

 

[WedgeX]

It's painful, I had to stop after victim 4. As a new dad, you probably shouldn't read it, buddy.

Edit: Here's a timeline of events, that may help:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/09/penn-state-scandal-timeline-jerry-sandusky_n_1084204.html?ref=mostpopular

From the timeline...don't have the stomach at the moment to go through the indictment.

Jerry Lauro, an investigator with the Pennsylvania Department of Public Welfare, testifies he and Schreffler interviewed Sandusky, and that Sandusky admits showering naked with Victim 6, admits to hugging Victim 6 while in the shower and admits that it was wrong.

The case is closed after then-Centre County District Attorney Ray Gricar decides there will be no criminal charge.

.....................................What the hell.

 

[Sanjuro]

So people, what do you think the NCAA should do? They need to act now!

I need to re-read, but from what I've been hearing there are some areas where they could get involved. Sandusky apparently promised some of the Second Mile boys preferred treatment about attending the school and the football program.

That's all I've got though. Looks like the necessary parties have been getting involved anyway.

 

[mre]

So people, what do you think the NCAA should do? They need to act now!

Jesus Christ. Would you fucking morons stop it with the NCAA? The NCAA already fired Paterno, what more do you want them to do, adopt a playoff system?

 

[RunWhiteBoyRun]

I find it odd that they felt the need to point out that it was done on a Sunday. So what?

My guess is to point out the worthless fuck waited 24 hours to take action after first being alerted to the rape.
Fuck Penn State to the fullest.

 

[Sanjuro]

I've already gone over this with you:

Joe Paterno was told by McQueary that he saw Sandusky raping a boy in the showers, a day after the incident had occurred. Joe Paterno told his superiors about the incident (and had they actually done their job, it should have ended there) thinking that they were decent human beings, but unknown to him, they were scumbags willing to protect a pedophile and cover up for his pedophile empire. We don't know what Joe Paterno was told after the 'investigation' had taken place, if anything, and that's information I feel is pretty fucking important to have before you can condemn Paterno in the manner that you're doing.

You told me to read the report, and having read the report, I've learned nothing new regarding Paterno that renders his firing and condemnation deserved. I personally consider any sexual contact between an adult and a child to be fucked up, so reading descriptive details about the rape did little to alter my opinions regarding the situation.

I feel bad for you. You are incredible naive if you actually believe that.

 

[bionic77]

At least bionic is on the right page. There are other people with more guilt on their hands, but that doesn't smooth over the fact that pretty much everybody involved needs to go.

Yeah it is a little disgusting that people are getting so upset that Joe is getting fired. I mean lets assume that he is totally innocent, even then it is the fucking worst reaction you can have after such a huge child molestation scandal. You find out that the school was associating with a child rapist for God knows how many years and the first reaction is to get angry over losing a football coach? I have some friends on FB that go to Penn State and they are going to regret a lot of the retarded shit they have said since this went down. And honestly the thing that annoys me most is that this debate on Paterno is distracting us from the investigation and what the fuck the law enforcement officials were doing from the beginning.

 

[Hari Seldon]

Some pundit on versus named Spencer Hall explained that the NCAA getting involved is like your home owners association investing a triple murder.

 

[mre]

Some pundit on versus named Spencer Hall explained that the NCAA getting involved is like your home owners association investing a triple murder.

I don't think Spencer Hall would appreciate you calling him a "pundit."

 

[harSon]

I feel bad for you. You are incredible naive if you actually believe that.

I'm naive because I want to reserve judgement until I have the facts of the case?

 

[DayShallCome]

I feel bad for you. You are incredible naive if you actually believe that.

Believe what?

 

[Sanjuro]

I'm naive because I want to reserve judgement until I have the facts of the case?

Yes. Sandusky maintained an office on campus until last week. Paterno knew he anally raped a ten year old boy ten years prior. Do the math.

 

[wonderkins]

Wow. I realize your schtick is to be obstinate but you'd think given the events you'd drop character.

Guess not.

 

[ElRenoRaven]

Some pundit on versus named Spencer Hall explained that the NCAA getting involved is like your home owners association investing a triple murder.

Well he's right. Until the criminal investigations are over there isn't really anything they can do. Now after that they can do their investigation and if it's revealed there was a lot more evil shit done then they can take their action.

 

[Zep]

Yes. Sandusky maintained an office on campus until last week. Paterno knew he anally raped a ten year old boy ten years prior. Do the math.

I can't believe it was that hard to understand.

 

[beast786]

I've already gone over this with you:

Joe Paterno was told by McQueary that he saw Sandusky raping a boy in the showers, a day after the incident had occurred. Joe Paterno told his superiors about the incident (and had they actually done their job, it should have ended there) thinking that they were decent human beings, but unknown to him, they were scumbags willing to protect a pedophile and cover up for his pedophile empire. We don't know what Joe Paterno was told after the 'investigation' had taken place, if anything, and that's information I feel is pretty fucking important to have before you can condemn Paterno in the manner that you're doing.

You told me to read the report, and having read the report, I've learned nothing new regarding Paterno that renders his firing and condemnation deserved. I personally consider any sexual contact between an adult and a child to be fucked up, so reading descriptive details about the rape did little to alter my opinions regarding the situation.

I have a very simple question for you. If Joe P was some how told everything was ok. Then it was Mc was a blatant liar, making detail rape charges against an innocent man.

How is it possible that neither MC or Sandusky werent fired or in case of sandusky kicked out of the facility /or reported to the COPS?

One of the version has to be the case for King Joe Pa.

 

[Branduil]

I can't believe it was that hard to understand.

When you don't want to understand, everything becomes rocket science.

 

[Toth]

You know...with how much power Joe had in this state, would calling the local police been that effective? If there is smoke to the fire that is this DA's mysterious disappearance, I wonder if the corruption is more widespread than we think. Scary thoughts.

Maybe this McQuery was intimidated and told to shut up or be shut up.

 

[bob_arctor]

Yes. Sandusky maintained an office on campus until last week. Paterno knew he anally raped a ten year old boy ten years prior. Do the math.

You don't know if Paterno even knew that office existed. We need all the facts, Sanjuro.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

For those who missed Mark May going off.

 

[Sanjuro]

You don't know if Paterno even knew that office existed. We need all the facts, Sanjuro.

Your right. The office could have been on the Hogwarts side of the Penn State campus.