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[Dude Abides]

My guess is to point out the worthless fuck waited 24 hours to take action after first being alerted to the rape.
Fuck Penn State to the fullest.

Nope, the report is written to suggest the opposite.

Joseph V. Paterno testified to receiving the graduate assistan'ts report at his home on a Saturday morning. Paterno testified that the graduate assistant was very upset. Paterno called Tim Curley ("Curley"), Penn State Athletic Director and Patern's immediate superior, to his home the very next day, a Sunday, and reported to him that the graduate assistant had seen Jerry Sandusky in the Lasch Building showers fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy.

 

[mre]

For those who missed Mark May going off.

Thank you. I searched youtube an hour or so ago and couldn't find it.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

^ np!

I've already gone over this with you:

Joe Paterno was told by McQueary that he saw Sandusky raping a boy in the showers, a day after the incident had occurred. Joe Paterno told his superiors about the incident (and had they actually done their job, it should have ended there) thinking that they were decent human beings, but unknown to him, they were scumbags willing to protect a pedophile and cover up for his pedophile empire. We don't know what Joe Paterno was told after the 'investigation' had taken place, if anything, and that's information I feel is pretty fucking important to have before you can condemn Paterno in the manner that you're doing.

You told me to read the report, and having read the report, I've learned nothing new regarding Paterno that renders his firing and condemnation deserved. I personally consider any sexual contact between an adult and a child to be fucked up, so reading descriptive details about the rape did little to alter my opinions regarding the situation.

Nah brah. Nah.

You know what Joe knew for sure?

1.) That McQueary was telling the truth.

and

2.) That Sandusky wasn't in jail after whatever the administration was going to do was done.

That's enough information to call the police. That's what a decent, responsible human would have done.

 

[Salazar]

I have a very simple question for you. If Joe P was some how told everything was ok. Then it was Mc was a blatant liar, making detail rape charges against an innocent man.

What happened is that a rule was put in place (not enforced, apparently), stating that Sandusky couldn't bring kids to campus anymore.

Unless people are arguing that Paterno is not mentally competent, then he damn fucking well knew - at the least, he knew - that shit was being covered up.

 

[RunWhiteBoyRun]

Nope, the report is written to suggest the opposite.

I'm sorry, I might be dense as to what I'm reading, my apologies if I am.

Paterno heard about what happened on a Saturday morning. His boss came over to his house the next day. 24 hours later.

Edit: And this be my bad, piece of shit I was referring to Paterno. So much shit swimming in the punch bowl. All of them are garbage.

 

[harSon]

Yes. Sandusky maintained an office on campus until last week. Paterno knew he anally raped a ten year old boy ten years prior. Do the math.

Paterno didn't witness the rape, McQueary did. He was told by McQueary that Sandusky had raped a child. We don't know what happened with Paterno's after his relaying of the message to his superiors. Your condemnation of Paterno requires a leap from fact to assumption, my refusal to condemn Paterno is grounded completely by facts.

 

[eznark]

smh harSon

 

[Sanjuro]

Paterno didn't witness the rape, McQueary did. He was told by McQueary that Sandusky had raped a child. We don't know what happened with Paterno's after his relaying of the message to his superiors. Your condemnation of Paterno requires a leap from fact to assumption, my refusal to condemn Paterno is grounded completely by facts.

I'm sorry. I don't think I can continue to help you. You are either too proud to give up Paterno's side of the argument or too naive to put any of the pieces together.

 

[scorcho]

Paterno didn't witness the rape, McQueary did. He was told by McQueary that Sandusky had raped a child. We don't know what happened with Paterno's after his relaying of the message to his superiors. Your condemnation of Paterno requires a leap from fact to assumption, my refusal to condemn Paterno is grounded completely by facts.

it's an easy assumption to make. Paterno didn't bother to reconcile what McQueary told him with Sandusky's continued presence on the campus, nor did he confront either Sandusky or his 'bosses' of the allegation.

had any of this happened it would've been in the GJ report. instead Paterno put his head down and seemingly didn't ask any questions once the event was buried.

 

[mre]

I'm sorry, I might be dense as to what I'm reading, my apologies if I am.

Paterno heard about what happened on a Saturday morning. His boss came over to his house the next day. 24 hours later.

Edit: And this be my bad, piece of shit I was referring to Paterno. So much shit swimming in the punch bowl. All of them are garbage.

He's saying that the statement was written to cast Paterno in the best light possible. They minimized and softened the amount of time it took Paterno to take the information McQueary gave him to Curley. The statement could have easily been written, instead, to emphasize the fact that Paterno sat on the information for 24 hours, over a day, etc.

Edit: and Mark May really nailed it in that segment. :bow:

 

[Dude Abides]

I'm sorry, I might be dense as to what I'm reading, my apologies if I am.

Paterno heard about what happened on a Saturday morning. His boss came over to his house the next day. 24 hours later.

Edit: And this be my bad, piece of shit I was referring to Paterno. So much shit swimming in the punch bowl. All of them are garbage.

No, I agree that it's clear that it was 24 hours later. But the report treats that as springing into action ("the very next day") rather than dicking around when you know about a child rape. The report is written in such a way as to make Paterno look as good as possible.

 

[harSon]

What's faulty about my logic? I'm not saying that Joe Paterno is the saint of the situation and should be absolved of all missteps, I'm saying that as a spectator with the current wave of facts available to me, a definitive consensus such as the one you've come too cannot be had.

Unless you can supply me with some proof stating otherwise, your position requires assumptions to arrive at.

 

[beast786]

Paterno didn't witness the rape, McQueary did. He was told by McQueary that Sandusky had raped a child. We don't know what happened with Paterno's after his relaying of the message to his superiors. Your condemnation of Paterno requires a leap from fact to assumption, my refusal to condemn Paterno is grounded completely by facts.

Can you please answer my simple question?


http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=32600552&postcount=2948

 

[RunWhiteBoyRun]

No, I agree that it's clear that it was 24 hours later. But the report treats that as springing into action ("the very next day") rather than dicking around when you know about a child rape. The report is written in such a way as to make Paterno look as good as possible.

Okay okay, I gotcha now.
I just don't read it as making Paterno look good. 24 hours? Still scum, if he was any type of leader, boss or coach, he'd be better than calling his boss to the crib 24 hours later, then never worrying about it again.

 

[mre]

Okay okay, I gotcha now.
I just don't read it as making Paterno look good. 24 hours? Still scum, if he was any type of leader, boss or coach, he'd be better than calling his boss to the crib 24 hours later, then never worrying about it again.

It doesn't make him look good, there's not much they could do to make Paterno look good in this situation. It just makes him look less horrible than they could have.

 

[Sanjuro]

What's faulty about my logic? I'm not saying that Joe Paterno is the saint of the situation and should be absolved of all missteps, I'm saying that as a spectator with the current wave of facts available to me, a definitive consensus such as the one you've come too cannot be had.

Unless you can supply me with some proof stating otherwise, your position requires assumptions to arrive at.

 

[Margalis]

Joe Paterno knew that Sandusky was seen sexually molesting a kid. The grand jury report is a little unclear on what he was told and if the term "rape" was used but JoPa knew that some sort of sexual molestation had occurred.

So he tells a higher-up about it. Ok. It's a little unclear exactly what he said and if he minimized the severity of it but let's give everyone the benefit of the doubt and say that JoPa knew that some sort of molestation had taken place and reported it accurately.

Ok.

Now, for TEN FUCKING YEARS, he sees that Sandusky is still on campus, still bringing kids to campus, still working at his charity that works with kids. He knows that his own players are also talking to Sandusky, putting in time at his charity, etc. He know Sandusky has not been arrested and absolutely nothing has changed, nothing is being done to keep Sandusky away from kids.

You figure at SOME point he might say "hey, remember how I told you guys that someone saw Sandusky molesting a child? Well he's still using our facilities, still bringing kids on campus...DO SOMETHING or I will!"

He had ten years to do that. And this is a guy who teaches integrity, doing the right thing, being a man, etc.

Not telling the police immediately I'm ok with. But when it was clear that absolutely nothing was being done and a child molester was still in a position to molest children CLEARLY he should have made noise until something was done.

 

[harSon]

Can you please answer my simple question?


http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=32600552&postcount=2948

McQueary actually did tell Paterno that he saw Pandusky "fondling" the boy, and not the sodomy that occurred, and in the interest of his career at Penn State, agreed that it was all a misunderstanding? Considering McQueary is capable of seeing a boy get raped by an adult without intervening in anyway, and kept his mouth shut as it was being covered up despite knowing the truth, who knows what the fuck happened?

Fact of the matter is, you have to start filling in blanks with fantastical assumptions to condemn Paterno in the way that many of you are. Bad things happen when you apply guilt based on assumptions, which is why our legal system is (typically) grounded in facts.

 

[Dude Abides]

It doesn't make him look good, there's not much they could do to make Paterno look good in this situation. It just makes him look less horrible than they could have.

Yep. I think they probably could have gotten Paterno on perjury similar to Curley and Schultz if McQueary had been pressed on what he told Paterno and Paterno on what he told Curley (and possibly Schultz), but decided not to for strategic/political reason.

 

[Dude Abides]

McQueary actually did tell Paterno that he saw Pandusky "fondling" the boy, and not the sodomy that occurred, and in the interest of his career at Penn State, agreed that it was all a misunderstanding? Considering McQueary is capable of seeing a boy get raped by an adult without intervening in anyway, and kept his mouth shut as it was being covered up despite knowing the truth, who knows what the fuck happened?

Fact of the matter is, you have to start filling in blanks with fantastical assumptions to condemn Paterno in the way that many of you are. Bad things happen when you apply guilt based on assumptions, which is why our legal system is (typically) grounded in facts.

But then went on to tell Curley/Schultz that it was anal sex? Your theory makes no sense.

 

[Sanjuro]

For fucksake harson.

Let's dumb it down. You're a manager at McDonalds. Your assistant manager violently raped a child in the bathroom and it has been brought to your attention. You tell your district manager about the incident. You work with your assistant manager for another decade.

You don't see anything wrong with that scenario...at all?

 

[Salazar]

For those who missed Mark May going off.

Thanks. I agree with every syllable.

 

[Branduil]

McQueary actually did tell Paterno that he saw Pandusky "fondling" the boy, and not the sodomy that occurred, and in the interest of his career at Penn State, agreed that it was all a misunderstanding? Considering McQueary is capable of seeing a boy get raped by an adult without intervening in anyway, and kept his mouth shut as it was being covered up despite knowing the truth, who knows what the fuck happened?

Fact of the matter is, you have to start filling in blanks with fantastical assumptions to condemn Paterno in the way that many of you are. Bad things happen when you apply guilt based on assumptions, which is why our legal system is (typically) grounded in facts.

Yes, bad things. I'm glad we have another soldier fighting for the real victim here, Joe Paterno's legacy.

 

[RunWhiteBoyRun]

It just makes him look less horrible than they could have.

I guess. I'm sorry I just can't connect those dots. It makes him more horrible to me, because he waited at all.

 

[tralfazz]

You know...with how much power Joe had in this state, would calling the local police been that effective? If there is smoke to the fire that is this DA's mysterious disappearance, I wonder if the corruption is more widespread than we think. Scary thoughts.

Maybe this McQuery was intimidated and told to shut up or be shut up.

I'm not one for wearing tinfoil hats, but this is my thought. I think this is going to be darker and more widespread than most people can fathom right now. McQ was threatened to stay quiet, Paterno too. Some powerful law officials and big money PSU donors involved. This is just a gut feeling.

 

[harSon]

But then went on to tell Curley/Schultz that it was anal sex? Your theory makes no sense.

Exactly, it's a fucking theory. We shouldn't apply guilt through theories, we should apply them through fact.

 

[ElRenoRaven]

McQueary actually did tell Paterno that he saw Pandusky "fondling" the boy, and not the sodomy that occurred, and in the interest of his career at Penn State, agreed that it was all a misunderstanding? Considering McQueary is capable of seeing a boy get raped by an adult without intervening in anyway, and kept his mouth shut as it was being covered up despite knowing the truth, who knows what the fuck happened?

Fact of the matter is, you have to start filling in blanks with fantastical assumptions to condemn Paterno in the way that many of you are. Bad things happen when you apply guilt based on assumptions, which is why our legal system is (typically) grounded in facts.

Goddamn. Some people will just honestly defend any thing. I swear to god.

 

[BertramCooper]

I'm to the point where this whole fucking tragedy just makes me feel sick. I've discussed it so much this week that it actually makes me feel super depressed just thinking about it.

And then I feel guilty because I'm not one of the people who actually suffered because of these assclowns.

 

[Salazar]

You figure at SOME point he might say "hey, remember how I told you guys that someone saw Sandusky molesting a child? Well he's still using our facilities, still bringing kids on campus...DO SOMETHING or I will!"

He had ten years to do that. And this is a guy who teaches integrity, doing the right thing, being a man, etc.

Hyper-masculine environment "we solve our own problems" shit might have entered into it. And the melancholy thing is that that would be the morally preferable explanation, as painfully retarded as it is.

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

Sorry about the delay in replying, had to step away for a couple of hours with the family...

Several years ago:
* I knew creepy guy was creepy, but not illegally so
* New IT guy caught creepy guy in the act of viewing child porn
* New IT guy reported creepy guy to his superiors, threatened to go to cops if they didn't do anything about creepy guy, and told me
* Creepy guy supposedly fled from the FBI

That was the last I had heard about creepy guy until this Sandusky shit goes down. Remembering creepy guy, I google him:
* Not on any sex offender registry that I can find
* Sits on board of a charity closely aligned with a high school

This happened long ago enough that any statute of limitations has certainly passed, but the more I think about it, the more I wonder if creepy guy should be on an education-related board. My wife thinks I should email the department head who supervised creepy guy. I'm wondering if I'm over-reacting.

If you are POSITIVE it's the same person then you should inform the department head. Like, if you're 150% sure. You should also probably get the story again from your successor who was directly involved.

 

[harSon]

For fucksake harson.

Let's dumb it down. You're a manager at McDonalds. Your assistant manager violently raped a child in the bathroom and it has been brought to your attention. You tell your district manager about the incident. You work with your assistant manager for another decade.

You don't see anything wrong with that scenario...at all?

There's a lot of details missing between "You tell your district manager about the incident," and "You work with your assistant manager for another decade."

That's my point.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

lol just listened to the radio show host absolutely destroy the shitty "journalist" chick from Penn State. Fantastic. Pretty much sums up how these idiots who are acting like JoePa is a victim should be dealt with. Normal discourse just doesn't seem to work.

 

[Sanjuro]

I'm to the point where this whole fucking tragedy just makes me feel sick. I've discussed it so much this week that it actually makes me feel super depressed just thinking about it.

And then I feel guilty because I'm not one of the people who actually suffered because of these assclowns.

I was about to say the same thing. I looked at my post count here. I think about everything I've read and learned over the week.

I bought some whiskey tonight, getting to work on that.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

McQueary actually did tell Paterno that he saw Pandusky "fondling" the boy, and not the sodomy that occurred, and in the interest of his career at Penn State, agreed that it was all a misunderstanding? Considering McQueary is capable of seeing a boy get raped by an adult without intervening in anyway, and kept his mouth shut as it was being covered up despite knowing the truth, who knows what the fuck happened?

Fact of the matter is, you have to start filling in blanks with fantastical assumptions to condemn Paterno in the way that many of you are. Bad things happen when you apply guilt based on assumptions, which is why our legal system is (typically) grounded in facts.

Paterno knew he was raping young boys, knowing this, kept working with him for ten years. Paterno is a scumbag.

 

[tokkun]

Not telling the police immediately I'm ok with.

HOW dude? Sandusky still had possession of the kid as far as Paterno knew. Even waiting a day to talk to someone was wrong. Police and protective services should have been alerted immediately.

 

[Branduil]

Exactly, it's a fucking theory. We shouldn't apply guilt through theories, we should apply them through fact.

FACT- McQueary told several people, including Joe Paterno, that Sandusky did something extremely inappropriate, at the very least, that should result in him being sent to jail.

FACT- If McQueary had lied, he should have been fired.

FACT- NOTHING HAPPENED TO EITHER ONE DESPITE THE FACT THAT SOMETHING SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED EITHER WAY. IN FACT MCQUEARY GOT PROMOTED WHICH YOU DON'T USUALLY DO TO GUYS WHO LIE ABOUT KIDS BEING SEXUALLY ASSAULTED

 

[Ninja Scooter]

There's a lot of details missing between "You tell your district manager about the incident," and "You work with your assistant manager for another decade."

That's my point.

There isn't really. During the last 10 years , only one of two scenarios could have happened after what JoePa was told. Either A) Jerry Sandusky was a monstrous child rapist or B) McQuery lied about seeing a man rape a boy in a shower. Those are the only 2 options. Yet 10 years later, McQuery is still on his staff (promoted, no less) and Sandusky is still hanging around using facilities and interacting with Penn St. football players. So what the fuck gives? Explain this. WHY IS IT SO HARD FOR YOU GUYS TO UNDERSTAND THIS? This is why people are pissed at JoePa and think he deserved to be fired.

 

[Sanjuro]

There's a lot of details missing between "You tell your district manager about the incident," and "You work with your assistant manager for another decade."

That's my point.

Your point is moronic. There are no details missing. HE DIDNT FOLLOW UP ON CHILD RAPE HARSON. HE DIDNT DO A FUCKING THING. THEY COULD HAVE NEVER SPOKEN AGAIN AND STILL HE DIDN'T DO A FUCKING THING.

 

[harSon]

Yes, bad things. I'm glad we have another soldier fighting for the real victim here, Joe Paterno's legacy.

I'd personally rather the narrative be focused on the actual pedophile, the witness who did nothing to save the current and future victims, the people we know covered it up and the victims whose lives they destroyed... but the media and everyone here is throwing everything on Paterno's lap because it's the bigger story.

 

[beast786]

McQueary actually did tell Paterno that he saw Pandusky "fondling" the boy, and not the sodomy that occurred, and in the interest of his career at Penn State, agreed that it was all a misunderstanding? Considering McQueary is capable of seeing a boy get raped by an adult without intervening in anyway, and kept his mouth shut as it was being covered up despite knowing the truth, who knows what the fuck happened?

Fact of the matter is, you have to start filling in blanks with fantastical assumptions to condemn Paterno in the way that many of you are. Bad things happen when you apply guilt based on assumptions, which is why our legal system is (typically) grounded in facts.

So you are saying is that MCQueary made that whole big fat lie about Sandusky. So joe forgive him and kept him and rewarded him with promotion.

If this makes any sense to you than I am sorry. You dont just make up Raping children/fondling children. And if you do as a 28 year old. There is a big problem.

As per reprot " Jerry Sandusky in the Lasch Building showers fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy".

Your only way is if McQ actually admitted he made it up and told joe that. Even at that its hard to believe joe will keep a man who will make such a lie in his program.

So your whole case is based on MCQ telling joe it was a misunderstanding.

And that WAS NO PART OF THE GJ testimony. Not by Joe,MC or anyone.

 

[scorcho]

Joe's just the coach. why should he be curious at all about why Sandusky and McQuery were still around on campus?

 

[Byakuya769]

Exactly, it's a fucking theory. We shouldn't apply guilt through theories, we should apply them through fact.

But we're not a court of law, and we're not sentencing this guy to anything other than public outrage. All the facts we have lead to a lot of reasonable assumptions that make Paterno look pretty badly.

 

[Branduil]

I'd personally rather the narrative be focused on the actual pedophile, the witness who did nothing to save the current and future victims, the people we know covered it up and the victims whose lives they destroyed... but the media and everyone here is throwing everything on Paterno's lap because it's the bigger story.

Well we could get on with that if there weren't a bunch of people carrying water for a pedophile rapist enabler.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Joe's just the coach. why should he be curious at all about why Sandusky and McQuery were still around on campus?

Because his job puts him in charge and care of 17-21 year olds, and i'm pretty sure the parents of the teenagers that send their kids off to be coached by Joe would like it if they weren't in the presence of either A) a child rapist or B)a guy who lies about child rape and gets promoted.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

Even if he was making it up you don't just carry on with the possibility that you have a child rapist in your workplace! you pump the motherfucking breaks and have the police investigate it. That's what a responsible adult does, Paterno cared more about not having a scandal at Penn St than he cared about the kids being raped and that makes him a piece of shit

 

[harSon]

Your point is moronic. There are no details missing. HE DIDNT FOLLOW UP ON CHILD RAPE HARSON. HE DIDNT DO A FUCKING THING. THEY COULD HAVE NEVER SPOKEN AGAIN AND STILL HE DIDN'T DO A FUCKING THING.

MAYBE HE DIDN'T FOLLOW UP BECAUSE THEY CAME TO HIM. MAYBE THEY TOLD HIM THAT THERE WAS A MISUNDERSTANDING AND NOTHING OF THE SORT OCCURRED.

For the trillionth time, we don't know the facts of the case.

 

[Salazar]

the media and everyone here is throwing everything on Paterno's lap because it's the bigger story.

They more or less have to do so, because there is a pyramid of piffle masquerading as moral argument on the other side saying that Paterno is a-ok.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

MAYBE HE DIDN'T FOLLOW UP BECAUSE THEY CAME TO HIM. MAYBE THEY TOLD HIM THAT THERE WAS A MISUNDERSTANDING AND NOTHING OF THE SORT OCCURRED.

For the trillionth time, we don't know the facts of the case.

So you honestly believe there is a possibility that in Joe's mind, he thought McQuery misunderstood what Sandusky and a 10 year old boy were doing together in a shower? So Joe was like "Well I guess that's that, everyone's okay! No pedophiles here!" And that's an argument for why he doesn't deserve criticism?

 

[tokkun]

MAYBE HE DIDN'T FOLLOW UP BECAUSE THEY CAME TO HIM. MAYBE THEY TOLD HIM THAT THERE WAS A MISUNDERSTANDING AND NOTHING OF THE SORT OCCURRED.

For the trillionth time, we don't know the facts of the case.

We know that Paterno didn't claim that in his public statement. Why do you think that is?

 

[Branduil]

I'm trying to imagine a scenario in which someone misunderstands something else for a 10-year-old boy being sodomized in the shower that makes sense in anything resembling reality and I'm coming up pretty empty.

Plus that's the kind of thing you'd usually mention in a grand jury report.