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[Salazar]

Basically, athletics provide more to the institution than just the revenue directly associated with sports. Indeed, I doubt you could fund the football coaching staff's salaries on just the athletics revenue at my friend's school. Sure, there is that revenue, but also each athlete's scholarship represents the tuition amount transferring from the endowment fund to the operating fund. It also acts as a recruitment tool, for example, my friend's school recruits in the Chicago area for both athletic and non-athletic students and lacrosse is popular enough there that adding a team helps them recruit, at the very least the 20 or so prospective members of the team never would have considered this school otherwise. Sports give something for the students to do, both in supporting the teams themselves and in that some facilities for official teams can be used by the general student body. Finally, the school spirit and loyalty that sports engender helps alumni relations/donations.

I don't have a beef with university athletics in general. Far from it. I think there is definitely a place for it; just not a sufficiently elastic place to accommodate, for example, the hundreds of millions of dollars going into stadium upgrades. University athletics to serve, moderately, a student body and a university community is a wonderful, indispensable thing. University football on a gigantic scale is not, I argue, remotely indispensable.

of it this way - university presidents aren't as dumb as Salazar implied

I hope you're not presuming the competence and independence of judgement of university presidents and trustees in general. Office is not a guarantor of cleverness.

so if only 20 programs are making a profit on their athletic departments, you can bet that the other thousands of school with athletic departments have a pretty damned good reason to keep them, one that goes beyond a simplistic P/L statement.

I don't think those reasons are morally credible or intellectually reputable in the case of, say, bigtime university football. I don't cleanly excuse the ones making a profit (on the back of general funds, in some cases). And again, I don't and haven't argued for the elimination in total of university athletics. Of course they have a reason to keep them. I am questioning the reasoning behind their furious expansionism.

Also Salazar, you keep making two mistakes.

Apologies, and cheers.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

Guys, quit responding to Salazar. You want to know why he's "quite scathing of college football culture?" Simple. He's a miserable Soccer fan who feels the need to troll on all things Football.

Dude is so outragious, he tried to argue in another football thread that the Packers shouldn't be able to call themselves "World Champs" because when they won the Super Bowl, they didn't play any international teams.

But OK. Go ahead...tell us all who else in the world has a legit case to say they were the best team in the professional football last year

The Packers didn't even compete against any of the international teams.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=29299715&postcount=484

In the same thread, he also tries to claim Soccer was a better sport than football because physical runts and people with physical birth defects can play soccer competitively, while NFL athletes have to be elite in terms of body size/type.

Then he goes on to say the champs of leagues like MLB and the NBA shouldn't call themselves "World Champs" either, even though their teams are made up of many, many players from all over the world, because they don't play the champs of the leagues in Italy, Japan, Turkey, et.al.

Seriously. He's that silly.

 

[Salazar]

It is true that I think "world champs" suggests an adequate measure of international competition in the sport. It's equally true that I think football's (soccer's) physically egalitarian nature counts in its favour.

Yo, Pristine. I remember those threads.

 

[Dude Abides]

It is true that I think "world champs" suggests an adequate measure of international competition in the sport. It's equally true that I think football's (soccer's) physically egalitarian nature counts in its favour.

Not as a spectator sport. Why would I want to watch average athletes compete when I can engage in average athletic competition myself?

 

[Salazar]

Not as a spectator sport. Why would I want to watch average athletes compete when I can engage in average athletic competition myself?

Well, you don't have to. You can watch the tremendous athletes (yes, they do exist in football - soccer) compete.

If they're all equally average then one can say they're all equally tremendous.

Pretty weak.

 

[Alucrid]

Not as a spectator sport. Why would I want to watch average athletes compete when I can engage in average athletic competition myself?

If they're all equally average then one can say they're all equally tremendous.

 

[Dude Abides]

Well, you don't have to. You can watch the tremendous athletes (yes, they do exist in football - soccer) compete.

I'm sure they do. I doubt anyone playing soccer at the professional level is an average athlete, which is why I don't understand what you mean when you say it is more physically egalitarian.

 

[Salazar]

I'm sure they do. I doubt anyone playing soccer at the professional level is an average athlete, which is why I don't understand what your point is.

Average athletes are only recently uncommon at the élite professional level in football.

Fat Matt is justly revered.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YB9HjYmYwpk

I wasn't judging football (I mean soccer, for reference) exclusively as a spectator sport. The fact that it scales down very well with different numbers of participants, different degrees of aptitude and fitness, the bare minimum of equipment, different areas and surfaces on which to play it, different genders and ages playing it. That's what I was on about.

But this is another derail.

 

[3rdman]

I'm sure they do. I doubt anyone playing soccer at the professional level is an average athlete, which is why I don't understand what you mean when you say it is more physically egalitarian.

Maybe so he can sound sophisticated in his musings?

 

[Cyan]

Oh good, this forum really needed another football vs futbol thread!

I was getting tired of JoePa/McQueary speculations anyway.

 

[Salazar]

I was getting tired of JoePa/McQueary speculations anyway.

I do think we need to be a bit more topical.

I hope, as someone posted earlier, that the prosecution doesn't need McQueary too much, because he is already falling apart. I can't think how he didn't realise that the police wouldn't go along with him changing his story.

 

[Kermit The Dog]

Salazar making an arse of himself at the hands of Pristine Conditions. Delicious. As I was saying yesterday, it's best to pipe down in areas outside your expertise. This is a fine example.

 

[Salazar]

Salazar making an arse of himself at the hands of Pristine Conditions. Delicious. As I was saying yesterday, it's best to pipe down in areas outside your expertise. This is a fine example.

Pipe the fuck down. The derail has been ludicrously prolonged enough without you popping in to blurt "derp, Salazar so silly".

To be fair, I'm only the most recent in doing so of many. I often find that you crowbar yourself into debates well outside your expertise, and into situations you have no real right to be involved in.

It's a discussion board. The "right to be involved" comes with membership. It's not my fault if you use that membership primarily to wind people up.

This is curious, considering that Penn State should be minimising shadiness.

http://www.slate.com/articles/healt...leading_the_investigation_at_penn_state_.html

Late last week, the university’s trustees announced they would conduct their own “full and complete” investigation into the matter. The probe will be headed, though, by a man with a track record of protecting powerful institutions from the consequences of their inaction: the chairman and CEO of the Merck pharmaceutical company, Kenneth C. Frazier. A Penn State alum and Harvard-trained lawyer, Frazier is best known for his phenomenal success in defending a sordid chapter in Merck’s recent past—its years-long silence about the safety problems of the popular painkiller Vioxx.

For most of the five-and-a-half years it sold Vioxx, Merck knew the drug doubled the risk of cardiovascular problems among users, but it did not tell doctors or patients. Instead, it pursued an active disinformation campaign—telling doctors that Vioxx was safer for the heart than older painkillers (it was not), squashing university scientists who dared to dissent, and withholding clinical trial results that would have definitively proven Vioxx’s risks to federal regulators. In late 2004, after the weight of the evidence became impossible to deny, Merck abruptly pulled Vioxx from the market.

 

[Kermit The Dog]

Pipe the fuck down. The derail has been ludicrously prolonged enough without you popping in to blurt "derp, Salazar so silly".

To be fair, I'm only the most recent in doing so of many. I often find that you crowbar yourself into debates well outside your expertise, and into situations you have no real right to be involved in.

And I can't help but feel that the foundation of your argument lies on the fact you dislike the sport (Salazar is quite childishly dismissive of sports other than union and soccer) and you simply work your way back from there. It's a very close-minded approach.

 

[Dan]

This is curious, considering that Penn State should be minimising shadiness.

http://www.slate.com/articles/healt...leading_the_investigation_at_penn_state_.html

Yep, nothing shady there. Just hiring an alum with experience protecting negligent institutions. I'm sure this investigation will be really valuable.

 

[SiteSeer]

To be fair, I'm only the most recent in doing so of many. I often find that you crowbar yourself into debates well outside your expertise, and into situations you have no real right to be involved in.

And I can't help but feel that the foundation of your argument lies on the fact you dislike the sport (Salazar is quite childishly dismissive of sports other than union and soccer) and you simply work your way back from there. It's a very close-minded approach.

give the guy a break, hes obviously going for some kind of asshat tag.

 

[DrForester]

Oh man, South Park tonight had a field day.

 

[Squirrel Killer]

I don't have a beef with university athletics in general. Far from it. I think there is definitely a place for it; just not a sufficiently elastic place to accommodate, for example, the hundreds of millions of dollars going into stadium upgrades.

Programs that spend that much on stadium upgrades are generally those that see a return on such an investment.

University athletics to serve, moderately, a student body and a university community is a wonderful, indispensable thing. University football on a gigantic scale is not, I argue, remotely indispensable.

Indispensable? Who's arguing that? Sure, college football is not indispensable. Neither is recreational sex, fast cars, hard booze, and gaming forums. That doesn't mean those things are bad.

I hope you're not presuming the competence and independence of judgement of university presidents and trustees in general. Office is not a guarantor of cleverness.

In general? Yeah, I'll take the competence of university presidents over the general public. I'll take their intelligence and capability to make rational decisions too. Not sure why you bring independence into the discussion, since I never claimed that they were independent.

I don't think those reasons are morally credible or intellectually reputable in the case of, say, bigtime university football.

Bringing in revenue and alumni donations, attracting a larger and more diverse student body, providing a social outlet for students and the community, and improving the public perception of the institution are neither morally credible nor intellectually reputable?

I don't cleanly excuse the ones making a profit (on the back of general funds, in some cases). And again, I don't and haven't argued for the elimination in total of university athletics. Of course they have a reason to keep them. I am questioning the reasoning behind their furious expansionism.

Bringing in revenue and alumni donations, attracting a larger and more diverse student body, providing a social outlet for students and the community, and improving the public perception of the institution aren't good enough?

 

[Salazar]

Seriously, though. I'll PM you if you're interested, but this is not a thread for a critique of university football in general. I acknowledge my part in taking it down that road, but it should be a news thread.

 

[Dude Abides]

Average athletes are only recently uncommon at the élite professional level in football.

Fat Matt is justly revered.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YB9HjYmYwpk

I wasn't judging football (I mean soccer, for reference) exclusively as a spectator sport. The fact that it scales down very well with different numbers of participants, different degrees of aptitude and fitness, the bare minimum of equipment, different areas and surfaces on which to play it, different genders and ages playing it. That's what I was on about.

But this is another derail.

That guy does not appear to be an average athlete. Lofting a ball precisely above the heads of pro players and then sprinting ahead of them is not something average athletes can do.

I agree it's easy to get a game of soccer going. You can also do that with American Football, though. I played many games of 6 on 6 or 5 on 5 football as a kid.

 

[rCIZZLE]

That guy does not appear to be an average athlete. Lofting a ball precisely above the heads of pro players and then sprinting ahead of them is not something average athletes can do.

I agree it's easy to get a game of soccer going. You can also do that with American Football, though. I played many games of 6 on 6 or 5 on 5 football as a kid.

Ya you don't even need anything other than space and a football. We used to play in the streets if we didn't have access to a yard big enough to play.

 

[Stinkles]

Guys, quit responding to Salazar. You want to know why he's "quite scathing of college football culture?" Simple. He's a miserable Soccer fan who feels the need to troll on all things Football.

Dude is so outragious, he tried to argue in another football thread that the Packers shouldn't be able to call themselves "World Champs" because when they won the Super Bowl, they didn't play any international teams.


http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=29299715&postcount=484

In the same thread, he also tries to claim Soccer was a better sport than football because physical runts and people with physical birth defects can play soccer competitively, while NFL athletes have to be elite in terms of body size/type.

Then he goes on to say the champs of leagues like MLB and the NBA shouldn't call themselves "World Champs" either, even though their teams are made up of many, many players from all over the world, because they don't play the champs of the leagues in Italy, Japan, Turkey, et.al.

Seriously. He's that silly.

This is epic.

 

[Salazar]

That guy does not appear to be an average athlete.

I thought we were treating athleticism as mostly distinct from skill.

Le Tissier was indeed godlike in the latter respect.

 

[Dude Abides]

I thought we were treating athleticism as mostly distinct from skill.

Le Tissier was indeed godlike in the latter respect.

And clearly wildly above average in the former respect. A precise strike (or throw, or shot) of a ball at a full-tilt run requires both athleticism and skill. As does a sudden acceleration post-strike to catch up to the ball.

Sports such as soccer, basketball, American football, etc. require both athleticism and skill. If you're looking for something that requires skill but not athleticism I"d offer billiards or darts, maybe bowling.

 

[Salazar]

If you're looking for something that requires skill but not athleticism I"d offer billiards or darts, maybe bowling.

I agree that darts is the classic example of something that depends pretty much entirely on skill, and I concede that Le Tissier wasn't quite fat, but I would insist that he was so profoundly gifted in technique that he could more than get by with a very average physique.

This is epic.

I've posted on maybe four occasions on the subject of American football. Sometimes approvingly, because I do like the sport. Pristine interprets this as rabid trolling.

I think he's looking for something that requires neither....message board trolling.

I didn't bring the shit up. I've been trying, and admittedly failing, to stop the derail.

 

[Spectral Glider]

If you're looking for something that requires skill but not athleticism I"d offer billiards or darts, maybe bowling.

I think he's looking for something that requires neither....message board trolling.

 

[Dude Abides]

I agree that darts is the classic example of something that depends pretty much entirely on skill, and I concede that Le Tissier wasn't quite fat, but I would insist that he was so profoundly gifted in technique that he could more than get by with a very average physique.

Having a gut, or a non-sculpted physique, does not mean that a person is not athletic, it just means he's out of shape. Maybe we have different ideas of athleticism, but to me it means agility, quickness, power, and speed. Sumo wrestlers are plenty athletic. Maybe "fat Matt" would have been better if he had lost a few pounds, but so would have late-career Shaq or Oliver Miller. It doesn't mean those guys were not athletic. They were much faster, quicker, more powerful, and more agile than an average schmuck of similar size.

 

[rCIZZLE]

child rape cover up by football program

football vs soccer

darts

 

[lazybones18]

http://www.sportsbybrooks.com/gov-funded-sandusky-pet-project-hid-his-abuse-29901

 

[Cyan]

child rape cover up by football program

football vs soccer

darts

You missed, "but what is athleticism, really?"

http://www.sportsbybrooks.com/gov-funded-sandusky-pet-project-hid-his-abuse-29901

Katherine Genovese

Uh... seriously? Goddamn.

BTW, as a general rule, take anything from Brooks with a grain of salt unless it's sourced elsewhere.

 

[Kerrby]

Dude is so outragious, he tried to argue in another football thread that the Packers shouldn't be able to call themselves "World Champs" because when they won the Super Bowl, they didn't play any international teams.


http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=29299715&postcount=484

He's right though and nobody could give two shits about American football other than America. Saying a team is world champions when they don't face anybody other than their own country is stupid. In fact it's down right fucking retarded.

Yes I am on Salazars side.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

He's right though and nobody could give two shits about American football other than America.

Wow, there must be a shitload of Americans in the UK then...

Top 10 Annual Sporting Events - Single-Day/Main Day (Paid Attendance) in the U.K. in 2011
1) British Grand Prix - 122,000
2) NFL Football: Chicago Bears v. Tampa Bay Buccaneers - 76,981
3) Royal Ascot - 76,955
4) Moto GP - 72,544
5) Grand National 70,291
6) Cheltenham Festival - 65,914
7) Wimbledon - 44,494
8) Epsom Derby - 43,000
9) Open Championship - 42,500
10) BMW PGA Championship - 25,472

(Source: PricewaterhouseCoopers)

This number was actually lower than in years past, blamed mostly on the fact that tickets went on sale much later than usual as pre-season NFL labor negotiations kept the game in limbo for a while, and the matchup of teams was seen as low quality.

Sure, it might not compete with Premier League games, but it does well against other sports in the UK that people certainly give a shit about. Oh, and the 2011 Super Bowl had 3.5 million UK viewers. Not bad for a game that started at 11:30 on a Sunday Night.

Saying a team is world champions when they don't face anybody other than their own country is stupid. In fact it's down right fucking retarded.

Yes I am on Salazars side.

Two of these things match.

 

[Dram]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57326703-504083/no-record-of-mike-mcqueary-reporting-jerry-sandusky-child-sex-abuse-say-cops/?tag=contentMain;contentBody

No record of Mike McQueary reporting Jerry Sandusky child sex abuse, say cops

Both Penn State's campus police and the State College police department say they never received reports from then-Penn State graduate assistant Mike McQueary related to an allegation of child sexual abuse against former defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky.

McQueary wrote in an email to a friend that was made available to The Associated Press that he had discussions with police after he said he witnessed a 10- or 11-year-old boy being raped in the Penn State locker room in 2002.

McQueary testified in a grand jury investigation that led to authorities charging Sandusky with abusing eight boys over 15 years.

In the email, McQueary did not specify which police department he spoke to.

But a spokesperson for Penn State's campus police told CBS News that they never received a sex abuse report from McQueary. Separately, State College Police Chief Thomas R. King told CBS News that his department has no record of ever being contacted by McQueary regarding alleged sex abuse.

 

[Branduil]

Does McQueary not realize how retarded he is?

 

[Dead Man]

Guys, quit responding to Salazar. You want to know why he's "quite scathing of college football culture?" Simple. He's a miserable Soccer fan who feels the need to troll on all things Football.

Dude is so outragious, he tried to argue in another football thread that the Packers shouldn't be able to call themselves "World Champs" because when they won the Super Bowl, they didn't play any international teams.


http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=29299715&postcount=484

In the same thread, he also tries to claim Soccer was a better sport than football because physical runts and people with physical birth defects can play soccer competitively, while NFL athletes have to be elite in terms of body size/type.

Then he goes on to say the champs of leagues like MLB and the NBA shouldn't call themselves "World Champs" either, even though their teams are made up of many, many players from all over the world, because they don't play the champs of the leagues in Italy, Japan, Turkey, et.al.

Seriously. He's that silly.

I think you'll find a lot of people outside the US find it a bit silly that US based teams competitions call themselves World Champions without playing internationally. They often are the best in the world, but that does not mean they are world champions. Two different things. And how did this become the pile on Salazar thread?

 

[weekend_warrior]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57326703-504083/no-record-of-mike-mcqueary-reporting-jerry-sandusky-child-sex-abuse-say-cops/?tag=contentMain;contentBody

No record of Mike McQueary reporting Jerry Sandusky child sex abuse, say cops

Both Penn State's campus police and the State College police department say they never received reports from then-Penn State graduate assistant Mike McQueary related to an allegation of child sexual abuse against former defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky.

McQueary wrote in an email to a friend that was made available to The Associated Press that he had discussions with police after he said he witnessed a 10- or 11-year-old boy being raped in the Penn State locker room in 2002.

McQueary testified in a grand jury investigation that led to authorities charging Sandusky with abusing eight boys over 15 years.

In the email, McQueary did not specify which police department he spoke to.

But a spokesperson for Penn State's campus police told CBS News that they never received a sex abuse report from McQueary. Separately, State College Police Chief Thomas R. King told CBS News that his department has no record of ever being contacted by McQueary regarding alleged sex abuse.

So now the question is- who's lying, McQueary or the Penn State Campus PD? We already know the Campus PD had some part in the cover up in 1998, so I don't really find anything they say credible.

 

[Homeboyd]

Another molestation case at Syracuse?

: /

 

[NihonTiger90]

Another molestation case at Syracuse?

: /

Link?

 

[tokkun]

Does McQueary not realize how retarded he is?

I was probably double-fisting booze when he drafted that email.

 

[Dram]

Link?

I think this is the story

http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-basketball/2011/11/17/2569955/bernie-fine-investigation-child-molestation-syracuse-basketball

Assistant head coach Bernie Fine has been accused of molesting a ball boy for more than a dozen years, beginning in 1983.

According to ESPN, Syracuse police are in the early stages of their investigation.

The alleged victim is Bobby Davis, now 39. Davis has told ESPN's Outside the Lines that Fine first molested him in 1983 as Davis was entering the seventh grade. Davis became the Syracuse ball boy in 1984 and subsequent abuses occurred in Fine's home, at the Syracuse basketball facilities and during road games, including the 1987 Final Four.

A relative of Davis' has also told Outside The Lines that he was molested by Fine around the same time.

According to Davis, Jim Boeheim was never notified of the abuse. However, he was aware of Davis' presence with Fine:

Davis said he was Fine's constant companion at all those places. He said that Boeheim would come into Fine's room, and see Davis lying on the Fine's bed, but never asked him any questions.

 

[Ghost_Protocol]

Can Sandusky be executed for this? If it can be proven that he raped multiple children over decades/

 

[rCIZZLE]

Can Sandusky be executed for this? If it can be proven that he raped multiple children over decades/

Not in PA and as far as I know not anywhere in the US.

 

[Pollux]

Can Sandusky be executed for this? If it can be proven that he raped multiple children over decades/

No.

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

So now the question is- who's lying, McQueary or the Penn State Campus PD? We already know the Campus PD had some part in the cover up in 1998, so I don't really find anything they say credible.

Even if they were sweeping the case under the rug, destroying and then flat-out denying the existence of a police report is on another level entirely. I mean at this point I'd be a fool to rule anything out by anyone, but I'm inclined to think McQueary is bullshitting or there's some chinese telephone going on with what is actually in the e-mail.

The police destroying all evidence of McQueary contacting them would be REALLY bad. REALLY REALLY bad.

 

[Pollux]

Even if they were sweeping the case under the rug, destroying and then flat-out denying the existence of a police report is on another level entirely. I mean at this point I'd be a fool to rule anything out by anyone, but I'm inclined to think McQueary is bullshitting or there's some chinese telephone going on with what is actually in the e-mail.

The police destroying all evidence of McQueary contacting them would be REALLY bad. REALLY REALLY bad.

If this scandal is as bad as some people think, i.e. sex ring and massive cover up, then I would be surprised if the police WEREN'T covering up evidence.

Or has the sex ring thing been debunked?

 

[Pristine_Condition]

I think you'll find a lot of people outside the US find it a bit silly that US based teams competitions call themselves World Champions without playing internationally.

I think I'd find that a lot of people all over the world believe all sorts of foolish shit when it comes to subjects they don't know anything about.

I'm sure I could go somewhere outside the US and find a lot of people who believe in things like "the evil eye," and voodoo curses, too.

A false consensus based on ignorance doesn't make something true.

They often are the best in the world, but that does not mean they are world champions.

They aren't "often" the best in the world...they are DEFINITIVELY the best in the world at that sport. Period. And yes, that DOES make them world champs. The notion that the Dallas Mavericks would have to play some team in Italy or Greece or Japan in order to be known as the best professional basketball team in the world is as farcical as if you'd suggest that they can't claim that title because they haven't played some high school girls' team that went undefeated and won the Delaware State Championship.

Two different things.

Nope. Best in the World = World Champs...every time.

Maybe you can call them the disputed world champs, but that only means people will continue to laugh at you, unless you can produce evidence of this mythical team that could challenge them.

And how did this become the pile on Salazar thread?

It didn't. I'm just pointing out Salazar's not-so-illustrious posting history in Football threads, so other posters don't waste their time with him.

 

[Salazar]

It didn't. I'm just pointing out Salazar's not-so-illustrious posting history in Football threads, so other posters don't waste their time with him.

You might want to ask him what he was doing in a football thread, or a thread about an American University at all...

This isn't a football thread, at least - and I acknowledge my error in introducing and extending an argument about football in it to the extent that I did - and the US and its sports and universities aren't so magically removed from the rest of the world that only people who live there are permitted to talk about them. My posting history in football threads amounts to not very many posts in about two threads.

Fuck any idea that some threads are just for Americans. Do you grasp how retarded that is ?

Respond in a PM if you need to. For fuck's sake.

 

[weekend_warrior]

Even if they were sweeping the case under the rug, destroying and then flat-out denying the existence of a police report is on another level entirely. I mean at this point I'd be a fool to rule anything out by anyone, but I'm inclined to think McQueary is bullshitting or there's some chinese telephone going on with what is actually in the e-mail.

The police destroying all evidence of McQueary contacting them would be REALLY bad. REALLY REALLY bad.

They had a serial child rapist on their campus and did nothing about it. In 1998 they conducted their "investigation" without ever notifying the state police, which I would think would be against the law (though I haven't heard about this so perhaps not). At this point it seems like everyone has been trying to put the blame on McQueary, and if the Campus PD had come out and said they did have the reports by him, then holy shit can you imagine the shit storm that would bring. I think it's much more likey the PD would be lying here versus McQueary.

It brings into question that if Penn State did have reasonable evidence that McQeuary should be the one to blame, why was he suspended with full pay, while Joe Paterno, the athletic head, and the president were flat out fired? I think McQueary knows more then they want him to.

 

[Salazar]

It probably serves a small but enduring purpose to post severe moral observations of the case. Scalzi probably nails it here.

http://whatever.scalzi.com/2011/11/10/omelas-state-university/

These things should be simple:
1. When, as an adult, you come come across another adult raping a small child, you should a) do everything in your power to rescue that child from the rapist, b) call the police the moment it is practicable.

2. If your adult son calls you to tell you that he just saw another adult raping a small child, but then left that small child with the rapist, and then asks you what he should do, you should a) tell him to get off the phone with you and call the police immediately, b) call the police yourself and make a report, c) at the appropriate time in the future ask your adult son why the fuck he did not try to save that kid.

3. If your underling comes to you to report that he saw another man, also your underling, raping a small child, but then left that small child with the rapist, you should a) call the police immediately, b) alert your own superiors, c) immediately suspend the alleged rapist underling from his job responsibilities pending a full investigation, d) at the appropriate time in the future ask that first underling why the fuck he did not try to save that kid.

4. When, as the officials of an organization, you are approached by an underling who tells you that one of his people saw another of his people raping a small child at the organization, in organization property, you should a) call the police immediately, b) immediately suspend the alleged rapist from his job responsibilities if the immediate supervisor has not already done so, c) when called to a grand jury to testify on the matter, avoid perjuring yourself. At no time should you decide that the best way to handle the situation is to simply tell the alleged rapist not to bring small children onto organization property anymore.

You know, there’s a part of me who looks at the actions of each of non-raping grown men in the “Pennsylvania State University small-child-allegedly-being-raped-by-a-grown-man-who-is-part-of-the-football-hierarchy” scandal and can understand why those men could rationalize a) not immediately acting in the interests of a small child being raped, b) not immediately going to the police, c) doing only the minimum legal requirements in the situation, d) acting to keep from exposing their organization to a scandal. But here’s the thing: that part of me? The part that understands these actions? That part of me is a fucking coward. And so by their actions — and by their inactions — were these men.

 

[Kermit The Dog]

Respond in a PM if you need to. For fuck's sake.

Don't bother, Salazar doesn't reply to PM's. If executed in private, there's no point to his charade. Because that's really all Salazar is. For show. Cleverly worded, baseless nonsense.

Scalzi probably nails it here.

He makes some good points, yes.