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Penn State football pedophilia thread (UPDATE: NCAA sanctions handed down)

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If those emails say what the reports say they say, it's gotta be all over for the Penn State football program. I think the typical NCAA touchstone of "institutional control" is pretty well out the window. This just blows that type of thing away.

If it really is true that the top two executives at Penn State and the Athletic Director failed to report a child rapist in their midst, (who had already been reported before,) when we now have strong testimony that such silence led to more children being raped, then the NCAA has to drop the hammer and drop it harder than ever before.

Oh yes, I'm saying they have to drop a bomb larger than they dropped on SMU back in the day. Hell, SMU just bought a few dudes some Camaros, set up a slush fund, and passed out money. That's NOTHING compared to shielding an accused serial child rapist.

If all this is true, and the NCAA doesn't kill Penn State dead for at least a generation, every member institution in Div I should walk out on the NCAA and start a new organization, lest they be tarnished by Penn State's continued membership. There are times when conduct is so appalling, an example must be made that will be spoken of for all time. Sometimes, you've gotta stick that head on a pike to get the point across to these knuckleheads that run these programs like it's their own personal kingdom. SMU got that treatment, and deservedly so. This situation is far, far worse, and so should be the penalty.

EDIT: And just so any Penn State whackjobs out there that think everybody's out to get them know...I have never hated Penn State in my life. They are not a rival of my school at all. I don't harbor any feelings toward them one way or another. This is just the way it is. The crime is too appalling, and so is any notion of an institutional coverup.
 

Nelo Ice

Banned
Wow, really hope Penn State is absolutely destroyed after this. They don't deserve to be an institution after this holy shit. There's no chance in hell they're gonna recover and rightfully so.
 

bjb

Banned
There's too much money involved. Absolutely no way they'll kill the school.

You'll see stiff penalties, but they'll rebound to mediocrity...eventually.
 

Leeness

Member
This really stood out to me in that report on the emails.

The documents allegedly show that university officials even did legal research on whether such conduct might be a crime.

I am just flabbergasted that grown men had to ~look up~ if a "disturbing sexual act" was illegal or not. DUUUUUHHHHH.
 
I stumbled upon this and was amazed:

RF6h9.jpg


...

Not the whole "still obsessed with rival Ohio State" part, because I get that, we had the Aggies in our conference...

I'm just guessing they don't teach Eastern philosophy @ Penn State, because...you know...that karma can be a beeotch.
 

Hero

Member
Sandusky needs to just be put in prison and rot for the rest of his pathetic life and hopefully receive some prison inmate justice while he's in there.

Also there's way too much money involved in one of the largest education institutions for them to shut down the university. Come on, are you kidding me? This isn't a video game.
 
I think they are talking about shutting down the football program and changing the leadership at the school.

Exactly. The cover-up would have NEVER happened if football wasn't the top-priority at the University. Football is great, but the sport itself should not be the main mission at any educational institution. Because administrators and high rank Penn State officials covered up ongoing incidents of CHILD RAPE to protect the sanctity and prestige of their football program, it is clearly evident that Penn State has put football above everything else. They do not deserve to have athletics at their institution, because institutional control of their athletics department is not just absent, it's corrupted.
 

Diablos

Member
Being a PA gaffer I can tell you that most people will shrug it off and blame it on the athletic dept. and bad decisions but not the school as a whole. Good luck trying to get the University to crash and burn.

It's still disgusting, but Penn State yuppies will always be Penn State yuppies.

That said, someone with a Penn State degree shouldn't feel ashamed about going to school there unless they knew what was happening.
 

JABEE

Member
Penn State as a football school is over. I can't believe how no one suspected this to be happening. I guess people would rather keep this a secret and protect their self and job than care about doing the right thing. Why isn't this a federal case if he took the children with him to bowl games? Wouldn't that qualify the case as a federal trial under the Interstate Commerce Act?
 
Penn State as a football school is over. I can't believe how no one suspected this to be happening. I guess people would rather keep this a secret and protect their self and job than care about doing the right thing. Why isn't this a federal case if he took the children with him to bowl games? Wouldn't that qualify the case as a federal trial under the Interstate Commerce Act?

Only if the NCAA does something about it. They are already putting together one of the best classes together for 2013, so the recruits don't seem to be deterred by what happened
 
I think they are talking about shutting down the football program and changing the leadership at the school.

This sounds like the best option. Everyone involved with this needs to be ousted. If they do leave the program open then a massive restructuring needs to happen so that it never becomes the highest priority at the school again.
 
It's only Day 2 of the trial against Jerry Sandusky, and already it looks even more damning for officials at Penn State, two of whom—former senior vice president for business and finance Gary Schultz and on-leave athletic director Tim Curley—still face separate trials for perjury and failure to report abuse.

First, there was an NBC report indicating that the university's former president, Graham Spanier, said in an email it would be "humane" to keep Sandusky's alleged abuse from the police, and that Spanier could face criminal charges as a result. And now, Pittsburgh TV station KDKA says it has obtained documents that indicate Schultz "kept a secret file with allegations regarding Sandusky and sex abuse."

The gag order that's been applied to the Sandusky trial obviously doesn't extend to the Schultz and Curley cases. The KDKA report quotes from a statement issued by the Pennsylvania Attorney General's office that says the file, which was "created, maintained and possessed by Schultz," had surfaced "only recently." The statement also says that additional computer files that had been subpoenaed a while ago were also just turned over.

And why is all of this relevant? Here's KDKA:

Those documents filed by the Attorney General's office late Monday indicate Schultz told so many lies in his Grand Jury testimony that it was impossible to respond to each and every one of them.

http://deadspin.com/5917764/report-...nistrator-had-a-secret-file-on-jerry-sandusky
 

FyreWulff

Member
Penn State as a football school is over. I can't believe how no one suspected this to be happening. I guess people would rather keep this a secret and protect their self and job than care about doing the right thing. Why isn't this a federal case if he took the children with him to bowl games? Wouldn't that qualify the case as a federal trial under the Interstate Commerce Act?

It's a pretty effective way of erasing decades of whatever they did to accomplish anything.

Should have turned him in from the get go. Instead, they were so afraid of shaking the boat that they just covered it up and it got bigger and bigger. Instead of dealing with it and recovering, it went off like a nuclear bomb.

At this point they should probably just fire the entire adminstration - 100% cleanout - and have the government take it over for a while, then hand it back once they can staff it with people not related to the previous administration.
 

gutshot

Member
McQueary and Victim 1 testified today.

BELLEFONTE, Pa. -- Former Penn State assistant coach Mike McQueary told jurors in Jerry Sandusky's sex abuse trial Tuesday that he saw his ex-colleague with a prepubescent boy in an on-campus shower and that he that he heard a "skin-on-skin smacking sound."

His account of the night differed little from his appearance in December at a preliminary hearing for Penn State administrators Tim Curley and Gary Schultz. The one difference: He said the shower encounter took place in 2001 instead of 2002.

But the effect of what he saw, and heard, was unchanged, he said, responding to questions from Senior Deputy Attorney General Joseph McGettigan.

Sandusky is on trial on 52 criminal counts related to the alleged assaults of 10 boys during a 15-year period. Authorities alleged Sandusky abused boys at his home and inside the football team's on-campus facilities, among other places.

McQueary told the jury that he was at home, in bed, watching the film "Rudy," when he decided to go to the football team building. He said he walked into the support staff locker room to put away a pair of new sneakers and, as he opened the door, he heard the noise.

"Very much skin-on-skin smacking sound," he said. "I immediately became alert and was kind of embarrassed that I was walking in on something."

He said that he turned and glanced over his right shoulder at a mirror that had a 45-degree angle and saw Sandusky "standing behind a boy who was propped up against a wall." He estimated the boy to be 10 to 12 years old.

He said that the "boy's hands (were) up on the wall. The glance would have taken only one or two seconds. I immediately turned back to my locker to make sure I saw what I saw."

Then he put his shoes in the locker and slammed it shut, hard.

"I made the loud noise in an attempt to say 'Someone's here! Break it up!'" McQueary said.

When asked what he saw, McQueary said "the defendant's midsection was moving" subtly.


He said he then went upstairs to his office.

"It was more than my brain could handle," he said. "I was making decisions on the fly. I picked up the phone and called my father to get advice from the person I trusted most in my life, because I just saw something ridiculous."

He said he was very vague with his father on the phone, and that his dad, John, told him to leave immediately and come to the house.

McQueary's testimony came after a teenager told jurors that a school district guidance counselor initially didn't believe his abuse claims because the former Penn State assistant football coach was considered to have "a heart of gold."

The teen, labeled Victim No. 1 by a grand jury, tearfully recounted for jurors repeated instances of abuse, which he said included kissing, fondling and oral sex during sleepovers at the coach's home.

A social worker who spoke to Sandusky about the boy's claims testified that the coach denied having sexual contact with the boy but did acknowledge lying on top of him and blowing "raspberries" on the boy's stomach. The social worker, Jessica Dershem, also said Sandusky told her he couldn't recall whether he had ever touched the boy below his waistline.

The charges against Sandusky -- and two university officials accused of perjury and failing to report suspected child abuse -- touched off a massive scandal that led to the firing of Hall of Fame coach Joe Paterno and the departure of the university president. Paterno died in January of lung cancer, just over two months after his ouster.

Now 18, the accuser known as Victim 1 recounted an early encounter that escalated to oral sex.

"I spaced," he said. "I didn't know what to do with all the thoughts running through my head. I just kind of blacked out and didn't want it to happen. I froze."

As he choked back tears, the sobbing teen recounted another time Sandusky forced him to perform oral sex, after saying it was his "turn."

"I don't know how to explain it. I froze, like any other time," he said. "My mind is telling me to move but I couldn't do it, I couldn't move."

The witness said he stayed quiet about the abuse, in part because his mother thought Sandusky was a positive influence in his life, but he began trying to distance himself from Sandusky.

At one point Sandusky became angry with him because they'd drifted apart and the teen became involved with his local Big Brothers Big Sisters organization, the teen said.

"I got extremely, extremely scared," he said, recounting how it escalated into an argument between Sandusky and his mother.

Eventually the teen asked his mother if there was a website used to track sex offenders because he wanted to see if Sandusky was on it. That ultimately led to a meeting with the guidance counselor, where he reported being abused.

At first, the counselor didn't believe him and questioned the wisdom of going to authorities, the witness said.

"They said we needed to think about it and he has a heart of gold and he wouldn't do something like that. So they didn't believe me," he said.

School officials referred the case to the county's child-welfare agency.

Dershem, a Clinton County Children & Youth Services caseworker, said the teen was initially uncomfortable talking to her but soon began to open up about his encounters with Sandusky.

She told the jury she had enough evidence by the end of her second meeting with the boy to determine that he had been abused by Sandusky.

He denied sexually assaulting the teen, saying he "he viewed (the boy) as an extended family member, kind of like a son," Dershem said.


During cross-examination, defense attorney Joe Amendola asked the teen whether he had financial motives for bringing his accusations.

The teen denied that. "All I know is I'm here to tell the truth about what happened to me, just like everybody else," he said.

Amendola pressed the accuser about his initial statements to a counselor and later the grand jury that were less detailed than later testimony.

The teen, who graduated from high school last week, responded that it was an embarrassing subject to talk about.

"I don't believe anybody would want to talk about it," he said.

The teen became upset as Amendola continued to ask about inconsistencies in his statements.

"It's hard enough for me to tell these folks of the jury what happened, let alone the size of a room," he said. "You're asking the same questions over and over again. I'm going to give you the same answers."

Sandusky didn't visibly react to the teen's account and looked straight ahead during his testimony.

Another of Sandusky's alleged victims testified Monday, the trial's opening day, telling jurors that the coach sent him "creepy love letters." The man said he began showering with Sandusky in 1997 and what started out as "soap battles" quickly escalated to sexual abuse, including oral sex.

Lead prosecutor Joseph McGettigan III has described Sandusky as a "serial predator" who methodically used his youth charity, The Second Mile, to zero in on fatherless children or those with unstable home lives, buy them gifts and take advantage of them sexually.

Amendola has countered that the case is flimsy and that some of the accusers apparently intend to sue and have a financial stake in the case.

http://espn.go.com/college-football...lions-assistant-coach-mike-mcqueary-testifies
 
If you're Joe Amendola, how do you feel when you go home at the end of the day?

I mean, everyone is entitled to legal counsel. That's a fundamental element of our justice system. But if you actually have to defend this piece of filth and try to paint abuse victims as money-grubbing liars, how does that make you feel?

Like absolute dogshit, I would imagine.
 
If you're Joe Amendola, how do you feel when you go home at the end of the day?

there was another article on deadspin that had some quotes from amendola. he said basically, his defense is to attack the credibility of the victims since all this evidence popping up really hurts sandusky. it's almost like he's admitting to fighting a losing battle but is resorting to some bush league tactics.

here it is (apologies if posted earlier/yesterday):
How Do You Defend Jerry Sandusky?

It's not going to be easy. Like "climbing Mount Everest," his own lawyer told the jury this morning. Eight accusers will testify against Jerry Sandusky, and tell the jury that he lavished gifts on them, groped them, had sex with them. A poll from November showed that only three percent of Pennsylvanians had a favorable opinion of Sandusky. Given the horrible nature of the alleged crimes, and Penn State's haste to distance itself, a lot of minds are already made up. How does Joe Amendola go about trying to get his client declared not guilty?

"I'm not sure how to approach it," Amendola said. "The commonwealth has overwhelming evidence against Mr. Sandusky."

Today saw opening arguments in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania v. Gerald A. Sandusky, and the prosecution's remarks brought nothing new to the table: a preview of testimony recounting 15 years and hundreds of instances of abuse. The defense's statements, however, gave us a sneak peek into Amendola's strategy for getting Sandusky off.

There won't be a claim of mistaken identity, or a grand conspiracy, or any single sweeping explanation for why Sandusky didn't do what he's accused of. Instead, Amendola will try to convince the jury that each's accuser's story, taken independently, still provides for reasonable doubt. Some of the accusers aren't to be trusted because they changed their stories, or misremembered dates. Others will be questioned on why they continued to see Sandusky, even after molestation allegedly occurred. Amendola will argue that Sandusky showered with young boys because that's how he did it when he was young and playing sports—and he will call his own witnesses, men who will testify that they showered with Sandusky but were never sexually abused.In perhaps the crux of his defense, Joe Amendola will ask the jury if the accusers have any reason to lie—and then point to the fact that most of them have retained civil attorneys, the better with which to sue Penn State.

"You saw those 8 photos, cute kids," he said. "Why would they lie? Folks, I don't know if any of you have been involved in family disputes over money. ... The evidence will show these young men had a financial interest in pursuing this case. All of these kids came from The Second Mile by recommendation and referrals ... because they had issues."

It may not go over well, but raising questions of the credibility of his accusers is all Sandusky has left. Even then, it's still the word of eight against one. Joe Amendola closed his statement by asking jurors to "keep an open mind." Sandusky smiled at those words.

http://deadspin.com/5917439/how-do-you-defend-jerry-sandusky
 
If you're Joe Amendola, how do you feel when you go home at the end of the day?

I mean, everyone is entitled to legal counsel. That's a fundamental element of our justice system. But if you actually have to defend this piece of filth and try to paint abuse victims as money-grubbing liars, how does that make you feel?

Like absolute dogshit, I would imagine.

I feel good about giving him the defense he is entitled to.

He is doing a shitty job by all reports, so I don't think he is using any dirty tactics.

I sleep soundly at night when he is convicted.
 

Dude Abides

Banned
Folks were speculating that McQueary was going to get ripped apart on the stand because he supposedly told contradictory stories or something. What became of that?
 
If you're Joe Amendola, how do you feel when you go home at the end of the day?

I mean, everyone is entitled to legal counsel. That's a fundamental element of our justice system. But if you actually have to defend this piece of filth and try to paint abuse victims as money-grubbing liars, how does that make you feel?

Like absolute dogshit, I would imagine.

I don't think so. Lawyers have a sworn duty to provide the best possible defense for their client, and I know personally that they believe doing so, even if the man is guilty as shit and is the worst human being on the planet, ultimately does everyone a favor by holding our would be prosecutors to a higher standard.

"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer." They often teach you in law school that if you can't accept that, then you shouldn't be a lawyer. We ultimately want this guy to get the best possible truthful legal defense, and we want our prosecution to prove he is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, even with the best defense provided. Sounds to me like they won't have any trouble at all.

EDIT: SerArthur beat me. 'Brevity is the soul of wit' in action, folks. lol
 

Yaboosh

Super Sleuth
I feel good about giving him the defense he is entitled to.

He is doing a shitty job by all reports, so I don't think he is using any dirty tactics.

I sleep soundly at night when he is convicted.



Even when a potential defense involves making the victims of a crime (that you probably know occur, if they did occur, depending on the case) feel like liars or feel ostracized?
 
The whole Penn State culture just sounds like a gigantic, state-funded cult.

I can't speak about the administration of course, but as a former student I always thought the sports fan have some unhealthy "love" or whatever you call it. I say this as a huge Philadelphia sports fan (for whatever reason I've never been in to college sports). Even with as "passionate"/crazy/idiotic as Philadelphia sports fan are, to me there was a creepiness to Penn State fans and particularly the idolizing of Paterno. I wish I could best relate it to he was like the US president or even the Royal Family, but it was more like he was the Pope.

That said, always keep in mind that this is not all students. I chose to go there because of the reasonable in state tuition and because they have a top 25 engineering program. The thing I kept thinking when I saw those moron students rioting outside of Old Main when Paterno was fired was that the Electrical Engineering buildings were right next door, and in it were brilliant graduate students from all over the world hard at work having to work with hundreds of loud and violent idiots outside. Along with that, these students (and me and other alumni) now get associated with these people.

The sad thing though is I wish I could say that the moronic fans are a "vocal minority" (and it probably statistically is), but it never appears that way and the culture you mentioned fostered it.
 
Even when a potential defense involves making the victims of a crime (that you probably know occur, if they did occur, depending on the case) feel like liars or feel ostracized?

Even then. What can I say? It's a dirty job, but somebody has to do it.

Don't worry, this guy is toast.
 
When rape is involved, a lot of posters don't seem to get why reporting your own abuse is such a difficult thing to do. The testimony from this kid really highlights just how hard it is to come forward after being raped.
 

bjb

Banned
When rape is involved, a lot of posters don't seem to get why reporting your own abuse is such a difficult thing to do. The testimony from this kid really highlights just how hard it is to come forward after being raped.

It's not fair to generalize, especially using the example of being ass raped by an old man in the shower.

It ultimately depends on the specifics, and on the victim.
 
If you're Joe Amendola, how do you feel when you go home at the end of the day?

If you are Joe Amendola, you feel like a dirty old man who got a 16 year old girl pregnant when you were in your late 40's back in 1996.

Amendola seemed more like Mary’s “mentor,” she described the relationship between her teenage daughter and a man in his late 40s.

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/nation..._teenage_7jKwQMCeBlm9RSdr9zeutK#ixzz1xcd33vWs

What a co-inki-dink...
 
If you're Joe Amendola, how do you feel when you go home at the end of the day?

I mean, everyone is entitled to legal counsel. That's a fundamental element of our justice system. But if you actually have to defend this piece of filth and try to paint abuse victims as money-grubbing liars, how does that make you feel?

Like absolute dogshit, I would imagine.

Perfectly fine. The answer's in your post. The system only works if everyone gets adequate legal counsel. The only way we can be sure of Sandusky's guilt is if he's given a fair trial and adequate defense. I'm not saying it's anywhere near likely that he's innocent, mind, but that's not what's at stake.
 
When rape is involved, a lot of posters don't seem to get why reporting your own abuse is such a difficult thing to do. The testimony from this kid really highlights just how hard it is to come forward after being raped.

It's the harsh reality of the court. They have the power to kill someone, or release a monster back into the public. They have the power to make the rich poor, and the poor rich. As such, all they care about is the truth. Anybody, even a child, will be held to the highest scrutiny. It's not easy testifying in court. You may be humiliated, and you may have your feelings trampled. I could see how it would make it difficult for victims to come forward, but ultimately, courts exist to protect the accused rather than punish the guilty. You can't give the prosecution an inch, or they'll take a mile when it's your turn to defend yourself in court.
 
Even when a potential defense involves making the victims of a crime (that you probably know occur, if they did occur, depending on the case) feel like liars or feel ostracized?

Yes.

I don't know the behind the scenes. I would have pressed him to take any deal they offered, but Sandusky is going to be a lifer no matter what the sentence, so he might have figured he had nothing to lose and refused. In this case I doubt the prosecution intentonally withheld a deal because, like you said, the nature of the victims.

It would be a violation of professional ethics to not give an adequate defense to Sandusky.

And, if I recall correctly, he did not oppose the motion to allow the witnesses to use aliases. Now that could have been a calculated move knowing how the judge would rule, but to me is a sign that he is doing his best to give Sandusky the right to a fair trial, adequate counsel, and the right to confront without any dirty pool.

I don't know if I would take the case if he was paying me. If I was a public defender I would not have a problem representing him, though.
 

Talon

Member
The legal system only works if every part of the system - the prosecution, the defense, the judge, etc. - is doing the utmost to their best abilities.

I've actually heard a defense lawyer describe difficult cases, and he said that your job as a lawyer is to be nonjudgmental but to put your faith in the system for the facts to come to bear.

It's a difficult way to think about it, but that's how the system works.
 
The legal system only works if every part of the system - the prosecution, the defense, the judge, etc. - is doing the utmost to their best abilities.

I've actually heard a defense lawyer describe difficult cases, and he said that your job as a lawyer is to be nonjudgmental but to put your faith in the system for the facts to come to bear.

It's a difficult way to think about it, but that's how the system works.

I wish we were able to try Osama Bin Laden in our courts. I would love to have seen his defense lawyer do the utmost best of his ability. I'm sure he would have played the government conspiracy card.

I'm expecting an avatar quote even though Ron Paul has stated many times he does not believe in a 9/11 conspiracy.
 
The whole Penn State culture just sounds like a gigantic, state-funded cult.

My dad is a Penn State alum and for years I've been a fan of Penn State football because of my dad's love of his college.

This shit coming to light is absolutely heartbreaking. I wish the college as a whole wasn't going to go down in flames in reputation, but if the e-mails and everything are true then they absolutely deserve it. Sandusky's a POS, so are all the people who helped covered it up, I just hate to see all this bad stuff happen to my dad's alma mater.
 

mre

Golden Domers are chickenshit!!
Also Monday, Penn State acknowledged an NBC report about an email exchange between top university officials regarding accusations by assistant coach Mike McQueary that Sandusky raped another victim. Former school president Graham Spanier, athletic director Tim Curley and vice president Gary Schultz decided that not alerting the police would be "humane" to Sandusky.
Jesus Christ.
 
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