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[Ninja Scooter]

I don't know why everyone is assuming the NCAA won't follow through on this. The situation is completely unprecedented. And I think it is very much the right move to allow the investigations to proceed further before making disciplinary decisions. Many people are yet to fall, much more will come out.

because after the Cam Newton and Ohio St. debacles, I don't have much faith in the NCAA to not be dickbags.

 

[Enron]

Penn State football deserves the fucking death penalty for this. If the NCAA doesn't do it, the university itself should. How anyone could root for the program ever again is beyond me. Some of the stuff coming out about just how much the higher ups in the program knew about what was going on, is just sickening.

Because it's just the higher ups involved in it. A handful of men.

No one roots for a football team because of who the Athletic Director is, or who his aides are, and what they did or didn't do. They root for a team because of past glories, because of young men leaving it all on the field, because of the escape it brings, because it unites people all over the state and region.

 

[Gary Whitta]

Reading that NCAA morality clause, I don't see how they can't NOT come down on Penn State like a ton of bricks. I mean it's hard to imagine a more grievous breach of that rule than serial child rape.

 

[ElRenoRaven]

Which I think is a problem with what's happening here. Sandusky's connection to the football program jeopardized it, and losing it was something nobody could countenance, so the football program became the shield for the man, and his actions went unhindered for over a decade. I don't mean to exaggerate too much, but I don't usually think of colleges when I think of conspiracies to cover up a member's misdeeds to protect their image.

And when money and face are valued more than the safety of kids, then the institution is so corrupt it needs to be razed and rebuilt. The moment they decided to cover up Sandusky's behavior, they ceased to care about anything other than their reputation and their money. If they'd cared about the students and the players, they'd have spared them this spectacle and the stigma that will forever be attached to the name "Penn State" by stopping him. But their own gain outweighed the students, the school, and most importantly, these children.

Exactly. Couldn't have said it better myself.

Reading that NCAA morality clause, I don't see how they can't NOT come down on Penn State like a ton of bricks. I mean it's hard to imagine a more grievous breach of that rule than serial child rape.

Yup the NCAA has morality clauses for a reason and as pointed out it says in the rules including but not limited to. So I'm pretty sure the rules could cover an institution covering up for a child rapist for 10 plus years.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Because it's just the higher ups involved in it. A handful of men.

No one roots for a football team because of who the Athletic Director is, or who his aides are, and what they did or didn't do. They root for a team because of past glories, because of young men leaving it all on the field, because of the escape it brings, because it unites people all over the state and region.

"lack of institutional control" is something aimed directly at these "higher ups" you speak of.

 

[Enron]

You sounded like you were.



Because if they don't, it damages the entire fabric of the game. This whole event has put the culture of athletics in a very negative spotlight.



The NCAA Rulebook doesn't agree with you.



https://web1.ncaa.org/LSDBi/exec/by...023&reportType=NotMain&textTerms=&titleTerms=

And then of course there's the other catch-all "morals clause" of the NCAA, the Unethical Conduct (Bylaw 10.1) which lists examples, but also clearly states "may include, but is not limited to..."

If the Catch-All moral clause were enforced like you seem to think it is, then every single time a coach gets caught fucking an AD employee or player gets caught selling weed or stealing shit, then that opens the door for the NCAA to come in and start suspending programs and deleting seasons out of the record books. But it doesn't.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

Because it's just the higher ups involved in it. A handful of men.

But they are the most powerful men in the program...

How can you not figure this out?

 

[Ninja Scooter]

If the Catch-All moral clause were enforced like you seem to think it is, then every single time a coach gets caught fucking an AD employee or player gets caught selling weed or stealing shit, then that opens the door for the NCAA to come in and start suspending programs and deleting seasons out of the record books. But it doesn't.

Yeah. If the NCAA acted on it now, it might make them look inconsistent! HEAVENS NO!

 

[LyleLanley]

Reading that NCAA morality clause, I don't see how they can't NOT come down on Penn State like a ton of bricks. I mean it's hard to imagine a more grievous breach of that rule than serial child rape.

But think of the football fans!

 

[DarkFlow]

I don't understand why everyone wants to nuke the whole program. Yes I understand that what happened was some REALLLLLLLY fucked up shit, and all the administration from school president on down should be delt with. The players on the other hand did nothing and your basically saying "too bad, we just wasted your football career you'll get over it." Some with NFL talent will likely get a transfer but the rest this is the end of the line. That's not fair to them at all, and they had nothing to do with it.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Which I think is a problem with what's happening here. Sandusky's connection to the football program jeopardized it, and losing it was something nobody could countenance, so the football program became the shield for the man, and his actions went unhindered for over a decade. I don't mean to exaggerate too much, but I don't usually think of colleges when I think of conspiracies to cover up a member's misdeeds to protect their image.

And when money and face are valued more than the safety of kids, then the institution is so corrupt it needs to be razed and rebuilt. The moment they decided to cover up Sandusky's behavior, they ceased to care about anything other than their reputation and their money. If they'd cared about the students and the players, they'd have spared them this spectacle and the stigma that will forever be attached to the name "Penn State" by stopping him. But their own gain outweighed the students, the school, and most importantly, these children.

well said.

 

[ElRenoRaven]

If the Catch-All moral clause were enforced like you seem to think it is, then every single time a coach gets caught fucking an AD employee or player gets caught selling weed or stealing shit, then that opens the door for the NCAA to come in and start suspending programs and deleting seasons out of the record books. But it doesn't.

WAIT THE FUCK UP. You're comparing covering up for a child rapist for over a decade to selling some weed or stealing shit? Really? Jesus fucking Christ. I can see not blowing up a program over those but this is AN INSTITUTION COVERING UP FOR A CHILD RAPIST FOR OVER 10 YEARS!!

 

[LyleLanley]

I don't understand why everyone wants to nuke the whole program. Yes I understand that what happened was some REALLLLLLLY fucked up shit, and all the administration from school president on down should be felt with. The players on the other hand did nothing and your basically saying "too bad, we just wasted your football career you'll get over it." Some with NFL talent will likely get a transfer but the rest this is the end of the line. That's not fair to them at all, and they had nothing to do with it.

All of the players would be free to go to another school.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

I don't understand why everyone wants to nuke the whole program. Yes I understand that what happened was some REALLLLLLLY fucked up shit, and all the administration from school president on down should be felt with. The players on the other hand did nothing and your basically saying "too bad, we just wasted your football career you'll get over it." Some with NFL talent will likely get a transfer but the rest this is the end of the line. That's not fair to them at all, and they had nothing to do with it.

It's happened at other schools for far lesser things. Players at USC didn't get to go to bowl games because when they were freshmen in high school Reggie Bush took a car from an agent. Was that fair to them?

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Because it's just the higher ups involved in it. A handful of men.

No one roots for a football team because of who the Athletic Director is, or who his aides are, and what they did or didn't do. They root for a team because of past glories, because of young men leaving it all on the field, because of the escape it brings, because it unites people all over the state and region.

Yeah, the higher ups. AKA the people who control the program. If one player accepting things can bring punishment down on an entire program, how the fuck would higher ups turning a blind eye to child rape inside school facilities brought about using team functions and events not be worth a much, much harsher penalty?

I never said anyone watches because of who the AD is. But the same and embarrassment from this would just be too much for me. I would not support them anymore in any way.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

If the Catch-All moral clause were enforced like you seem to think it is, then every single time a coach gets caught fucking an AD employee or player gets caught selling weed or stealing shit, then that opens the door for the NCAA to come in and start suspending programs and deleting seasons out of the record books. But it doesn't.

Sure it does. You don't know much about this at all, do you?

Violations of Bylaw 10.1 Unethical Conduct are automatically considered "Major Violations." It's also the one that got the iconic Ohio State football coach Jim Tressel suspended, resulting in his resignation.

 

[EatinOlives]

It's happened at other schools for far lesser things. Players at USC didn't get to go to bowl games because when they were freshmen in high school Reggie Bush took a car from an agent. Was that fair to them?

Another, slightly tangential example: the entire marching band at Florida A&M has been suspended, quite possibly forever, because of the hazing shit that led to a death. Was that fair to the rest of the band and the fans that enjoyed the performances?

 

[Enron]

WAIT THE FUCK UP. You're comparing covering up for a child rapist for over a decade to selling some weed or stealing shit? Really? Jesus fucking Christ. I can see not blowing up a program over those but this is AN INSTITUTION COVERING UP FOR A CHILD RAPIST FOR OVER 10 YEARS!!

Someone else opened that door up, my man. Not me. I was talking about the morality clause. It isn't typically used for individual law-breakers. The NCAA isn't there to punish people for breaking laws, its there to ensure a level playing field and to facilitate competition between members.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

All of the players would be free to go to another school.

Yep. Immediately too. They don't even have to burn a year or redshirt like a normal transfer.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Someone else opened that door up, my man. Not me. I was talking about the morality clause. It isn't typically used for individual law-breakers. The NCAA isn't there to punish people for breaking laws, its there to ensure a level playing field and to facilitate competition between members.

You are nuts if you think that is the only role the NCAA plays. If Sandusky were a player that got this kind of cover up, the school would be blown to bits. Sorry if I don't see that much of a difference between a player and an ex-coach given carte blanche to use school football facilities to aid him in raping children, and the school helping to cover up for that. The fact that you seem to think this is out of the NCAA's jurisdiction just because it doesn't directly effect competition is insane.

 

[Enron]

Another, slightly tangential example: the entire marching band at Florida A&M has been suspended, quite possibly forever, because of the hazing shit that led to a death. Was that fair to the rest of the band and the fans that enjoyed the performances?

No, it wasn't. But consider that a large chunk of the marching band's members were involved in some way or another with hazing events. Also consider that the Florida legislature got involved and it became a political deal as well....and I'll leave this at that. You probably get where i'm going with this.

Sure it does. You don't know much about this at all, do you?

Violations of Bylaw 10.1 Unethical Conduct are automatically considered "Major Violations." It's also the one that got the iconic Ohio State football coach Jim Tressel suspended, resulting in his resignation.

And it also involved PLAYERS receiving improper benefits, the sort of thing that's in the NCAA's wheelhouse. Not a coach raping young boys on campus.

 

[Gary Whitta]

I'd love to see an NCAA official come out and say "Not our problem." I'm sure that'd go down great.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

No, it wasn't. But consider that a large chunk of the marching band's members were involved in some way or another with hazing events. Also consider that the Florida legislature got involved and it became a political deal as well....and I'll leave this at that. You probably get where i'm going with this.



And it also involved PLAYERS receiving improper benefits, the sort of thing that's in the NCAA's wheelhouse. Not a coach raping young boys on campus.

IF a player were committing crimes and the school officials were covering it up, that would be outside of the NCAA wheel house then? Lets say a player was involved in a bunch of armed robberies on campus, and the coaches and officials covered it up? No action from the NCAA?

 

[DarkFlow]

It's happened at other schools for far lesser things. Players at USC didn't get to go to bowl games because when they were freshmen in high school Reggie Bush took a car from an agent. Was that fair to them?

A total death penalty? That's happened once and and SMU never recovered. Yeah a bowl ban just means the season is worthless but they still get to play and be seen. You kill the program and they get nothing. Maybe 20 kids transfer but the rest are SOL.

 

[Enron]

IF a player were committing crimes and the school officials were covering it up, that would be outside of the NCAA wheel house then? Lets say a player was involved in a bunch of armed robberies on campus, and the coaches and officials covered it up? No action from the NCAA?

Honestly? Probably not. The NCAA would most certainly sanction those individuals involved (which they can do), but a program sanction? I highly doubt it.

 

[ElRenoRaven]

Honestly? Probably not. The NCAA would most certainly sanction those individuals involved (which they can do), but a program sanction? I highly doubt it.

SMH. Wow. Just wow. What more can be said to that. I'm assuming them helping cover up a student murdering people is ok too right? Using your logic it has to be.

 

[SolidSnakex]

A total death penalty? That's happened once and and SMU never recovered. Yeah a bowl ban just means the season is worthless but they still get to play and be seen. You kill the program and they get nothing. Maybe 20 kids transfer but the rest are SOL.

I think the death penalty is the minimum that they're going to need to do in order to not get hit with a lot of public and media backlash. This is one of those things that's unavoidable for them. People don't really give a shit about players trading their shit for tattoos, but you've got real problems when having kids raped at a school and the people running the program knew it was happening.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

Someone else opened that door up, my man. Not me. I was talking about the morality clause. It isn't typically used for individual law-breakers. The NCAA isn't there to punish people for breaking laws, its there to ensure a level playing field and to facilitate competition between members.

No, it's there to protect the sport from being tainted by something that would endanger the standing of collegiate athletics in American culture, and the good faith the public has in it.

If the NCAA does nothing, and the NCAA is viewed as being a "good old boys" network covering the worst possible sins of a big school just to protect profits, this has a real potential to snowball. The academics within schools could mobilize against these athletic departments that many of them already despise.

Even worse, Child abuse advocates could mobilize protest of games which would be covered by the media, or even worse, they could organize boycotts against corporate sponsors of televised games. Imagine if an Oprah Winfrey or even a Nancy Grace made this a pet cause.

If you can't see how NCAA inaction could lead to a potential disaster for collegiate athletics, you simply aren't looking ahead.

 

[Enron]

SMH. Wow. Just wow. What more can be said to that. I'm assuming them helping cover up a student murdering people is ok too right? Using your logic it has to be.

Did I fucking say it was OK? No, I fucking didn't. I said it was outside of the scope of the NCAA. Christ. The NCAA is not a legal body. It's there to police competition.

 

[quaere]

I think it's time to stop accepting as fact that the death penalty killed SMU football.

If you look at the schools which are successful you have usually public, huge student enrollments, huge alumni bases, strong brands outside athletics.

What is a SMU and who outside of Texas cares? Its football success was an anomaly to begin with. Maybe the death penalty just reset it to the level of competitiveness that would otherwise be expected given the school's other characteristics.

 

[Deleted member 8095]

Better sanction the other teams in the Pac12 because they've been raping us for years.

 

[Enron]

I think it's time to stop accepting as fact that the death penalty killed SMU football.

If you look at the schools which are successful you have usually public, huge student enrollments, huge alumni bases, strong brands outside athletics.

What is a SMU and who outside of Texas cares? Its football success was an anomaly to begin with. Maybe the death penalty just reset it to the level of competitiveness that would otherwise be expected given te school's other characteristics.

This. I lived in Dallas when all of this was going on - the reason WHY SMU football became a mini-powerhouse was precisely BECAUSE they were paying recruits to come there.


Mark Emmert - the current president of the NCAA said in 2011 when the story broke that there could be room for NCAA sanctions, depending on what came out of the investigation. The investigation is complete, Sandusky is going to jail, and not a peep out of the NCAA yet. I think that's pretty telling. Also, two former NCAA big-wigs - a former CHAIRMAN of the NCAA's infractions committee and a former EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR of the NCAA both say this is not likely in the NCAA's jurisdiction.

Asked if the NCAA had jurisdiction, former executive director Cedric Dempsey said, ``No, I don't think they do, I'm not sure that it's an NCAA issue. I don't see how it would have any control over that."

University of Oklahoma law professor David Swank, a former chairman of the NCAA infractions committee, said ``This isn't an NCAA matter — at all. This is a matter of criminal law. There are no moral turpitude rules in the NCAA manual. There are rules that deal with how much financial aid you can get but no rules dealing with criminal (activities). It would be really inappropriate under these circumstances to take any action."

 

[DarkFlow]

I think it's time to stop accepting as fact that the death penalty killed SMU football.

If you look at the schools which are successful you have usually public, huge student enrollments, huge alumni bases, strong brands outside athletics.

What is a SMU and who outside of Texas cares? Its football success was an anomaly to begin with. Maybe the death penalty just reset it to the level of competitiveness that would otherwise be expected given the school's other characteristics.

Okay let's say your a top tier blue chipper. Are you really going to gamble a potential NFL career by going to a school that got hit with a death penalty? It could be years before they get back to any level of talent they had before. So in turn you never get blue chippers and just stay stuck in a cycle of shit.
Then there's the fact the school now carries a huge stigma and your looking at kids avoiding that school like the plague.

There's a reason that SMU has been the solo receiver of the death penalty and that's why the NCAA won't do. They know it is a death penalty in every sense of the word.

 

[Enron]

There's a reason that SMU has been the solo receiver of the death penalty and that's why the NCAA won't do. They know it is a death penalty in every sense of the word.

Let's be clear. SMU is NOT the solo receiver of the death penalty. And its not a death penalty in every sense of the word.

If Penn State or Miami or Florida or FSU or whoever got hit with the "Death Penalty" (no program for one year) would it destroy the program from here on out? Hell no. There's too much money, too much prestige involved with those schools to let that happen. Look at SMU, it didn't even destroy that football program. Within like 4 or 5 years, they were back in a bowl game.

But none of this is neither here nor there. Penn State isn't going to get the Death Penalty.

 

[DarkFlow]

Let's be clear. SMU is NOT the solo receiver of the death penalty. And its not a death penalty in every sense of the word.

If Penn State or Miami or Florida or FSU or whoever got hit with the "Death Penalty" (no program for one year) would it destroy the program from here on out? Hell no. There's too much money, too much prestige involved with those schools to let that happen. Look at SMU, it didn't even destroy that football program. Within like 4 or 5 years, they were back in a bowl game.

But none of this is neither here nor there. Penn State isn't going to get the Death Penalty.

I meant as far as football goes, tennis and soccer don't have the same financial power as football and KY in 52 is long before it was much of a impact.

 

[RiccochetJ]

Let's be clear. SMU is NOT the solo receiver of the death penalty. And its not a death penalty in every sense of the word.

If Penn State or Miami or Florida or FSU or whoever got hit with the "Death Penalty" (no program for one year) would it destroy the program from here on out? Hell no. There's too much money, too much prestige involved with those schools to let that happen. Look at SMU, it didn't even destroy that football program. Within like 4 or 5 years, they were back in a bowl game.

But none of this is neither here nor there. Penn State isn't going to get the Death Penalty.

So what pray tell do you believe should be the repercussions for an establishment that enabled a man to sexually assault young boys over a period of over a decade?

 

[Measley]

Dear Mr. Sandusky,

Night night, keep your butthole tight.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

This. I lived in Dallas when all of this was going on - the reason WHY SMU football became a mini-powerhouse was precisely BECAUSE they were paying recruits to come there.


Mark Emmert - the current president of the NCAA said in 2011 when the story broke that there could be room for NCAA sanctions, depending on what came out of the investigation. The investigation is complete, Sandusky is going to jail, and not a peep out of the NCAA yet. I think that's pretty telling. Also, two former NCAA big-wigs - a former CHAIRMAN of the NCAA's infractions committee and a former EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR of the NCAA both say this is not likely in the NCAA's jurisdiction.

Of course not. The NCAA is full of corrupt morally bankrupt cowards. It's not surprising that they don't act and hope this will all go away. The argument people are making is that they SHOULD act.

 

[Kalnos]

The cheering outside the court was really odd. Reminded me vaguely of Osama bin Laden.

 

[DarkFlow]

Of course not. The NCAA is full of corrupt morally bankrupt cowards. It's not surprising that they don't act and hope this will all go away. The argument people are making is that they SHOULD act.

I still don't see how this is NCAA business. They are a sports body made to control the sport. They cover cheating, and the playing of the sport. Coaches being low life scum off the field is not there area. If a player gets arrested the school handles it, not the NCAA, they are not the court system.

Edit: I guess the most they could do is slap them on the wrist for covering his actions off the field up because that pertains to the program.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

I still don't see how this is NCAA business. They are a sports body made to control the sport. They cover cheating, and the playing of the sport. Coaches being low life scum off the field is not there area. If a player gets arrested the school handles it, not the NCAA, they are not the court system.

in case you missed it like 10 posts up:

Title:19.01.2 - Exemplary Conduct.

Individuals employed by or associated with member institutions for the administration, the conduct or the coaching of intercollegiate athletics are, in the final analysis, teachers of young people. Their responsibility is an affirmative one, and they must do more than avoid improper conduct or questionable acts. Their own moral values must be so certain and positive that those younger and more pliable will be influenced by a fine example. Much more is expected of them than of the less critically placed citizen.

 

[Branduil]

I still don't see how this is NCAA business. They are a sports body made to control the sport. They cover cheating, and the playing of the sport. Coaches being low life scum off the field is not there area. If a player gets arrested the school handles it, not the NCAA, they are not the court system.

Because Penn State has proven that they don't deserve to have a football team.

 

[DarkFlow]

in case you missed it like 10 posts up:

Okay I see that, but that's not going to be much since he's already going to jail and I'm going to guess others are already on the hot seat.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Okay I see that, but that's not going to be much since he's already going to jail and I'm going to guess others are already on the hot seat.

the conduct in question isn't Sandusky, it's the people in the program and athletic department the covered up for him. The NCAA likes to beat the "lack of institutional control" drum, well an athletic department covering up for child rape on campus is the fucking definition of "lack of institutional control". They need to clean house. Fire everybody that has anything to do with the football department. If that means there's no football for a year or two while they sort it out, too fuckin bad.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

What is a SMU and who outside of Texas cares? Its football success was an anomaly to begin with.

Yeah, an "anomaly" credited with a history of coming up with the first modern-style forward passing offense in collegiate football back in the 20's. An anomaly with a national championship as far back as 1935, and 11 Southwest Conference Championships, with 9 outright titles, which is more than Arkansas managed to win. An anomaly with the Doak Walker Award, (the award for the best running back in college football,) named after an SMU player, who also was a Heisman winner. An anomaly that produced players like Don Meredith and Forrest Gregg, (called "the greatest player I ever coached" by Vince Lombardi.) An anomaly which produced Lamar Hunt. SMU who?

 

[Battlezone]

And it also involved PLAYERS receiving improper benefits, the sort of thing that's in the NCAA's wheelhouse. Not a coach raping young boys on campus.

If it's a penalty for Terrelle Pryor to trade on his status as an NCAA athlete to trade things that belonged to him for some tattoos, then it should ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY be a penalty for Sandusky to trade on his status as a NCAA coach to rape young boys.

 

[tapedeck]

Just got home and found out about the verdicts, good to hear he wont see the light of day. Now lets hope all the others go down.

Yeah, an "anomaly" credited with a history of coming up with the first modern-style forward passing offense in collegiate football back in the 20's. An anomaly with a national championship as far back as 1935, and 11 Southwest Conference Championships, with 9 outright titles, which is more than Arkansas managed to win. An anomaly with the Doak Walker Award, (the award for the best running back in college football,) named after an SMU player, who also was a Heisman winner. An anomaly that produced players like Don Meredith and Forrest Gregg, (called "the greatest player I ever coached" by Vince Lombardi.) An anomaly which produced Lamar Hunt. SMU who?

Damn

 

[Enron]

Yeah, an "anomaly" credited with a history of coming up with the first modern-style forward passing offense in collegiate football back in the 20's. An anomaly with a national championship as far back as 1935, and 11 Southwest Conference Championships, with 9 outright titles, which is more than Arkansas managed to win. An anomaly with the Doak Walker Award, (the award for the best running back in college football,) named after an SMU player, who also was a Heisman winner. An anomaly that produced players like Don Meredith and Forrest Gregg, (called "the greatest player I ever coached" by Vince Lombardi.) An anomaly which produced Lamar Hunt. SMU who?

You can dig and find good players from every school. And come on, those championships before the pay-for-play era were all BEFORE 1950, with the exception of 1966. SMU wasn't a powerhouse for a VERY long time.

SMU only has 14 bowl appearances in thier ENTIRE history, and have a couple of stretches of 12 years and one 15 year stretch between bowl appearances.

This is not a powerhouse program. In the mid 1980s, SMU WAS an anomaly.

 

[Sanjuro]

People who expecting NCAA to do anything are going to be very disappointed.

 

[womfalcs3]

Going from Penn State to state pen.