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Penn State football pedophilia thread (UPDATE: NCAA sanctions handed down)

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P

pompidu

Member
DarkFlow83 said:
I don't understand why everyone wants to nuke the whole program. Yes I understand that what happened was some REALLLLLLLY fucked up shit, and all the administration from school president on down should be delt with. The players on the other hand did nothing and your basically saying "too bad, we just wasted your football career you'll get over it." Some with NFL talent will likely get a transfer but the rest this is the end of the line. That's not fair to them at all, and they had nothing to do with it.
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They will all still get there free schooling which is more important to 99% of the players. Your points invalid.
 
D

DarkFlow

Banned
pompidu said:
They will all still get there free schooling which is more important to 99% of the players. Your points invalid.
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How would that happen, you get nuked you lose scholarships. so how would they get there free schooling? You can't get a free ride for doing nothing.


Edit: I could be totally wrong and loss of scholarship might mean only new ones, I'm not really sure what happens when they get the death penalty.
 
G

GoldenEye 007

Member
Enron said:
This. I lived in Dallas when all of this was going on - the reason WHY SMU football became a mini-powerhouse was precisely BECAUSE they were paying recruits to come there.


Mark Emmert - the current president of the NCAA said in 2011 when the story broke that there could be room for NCAA sanctions, depending on what came out of the investigation. The investigation is complete, Sandusky is going to jail, and not a peep out of the NCAA yet. I think that's pretty telling. Also, two former NCAA big-wigs - a former CHAIRMAN of the NCAA's infractions committee and a former EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR of the NCAA both say this is not likely in the NCAA's jurisdiction.
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I've posted twice that the NCAA is indeed looking into this and has started an investigation. But just because Sandusky as an individual was found guilty at this time does not mean institutional investigations are over. The federal government still has to do their investigation along with any state inquiry too. The NCAA won't be intefering with that or tying PSU up as those investigations are ongoing - NCAA said as much.

Once again, here is the official letter from the NCAA to PSU notifying them that an investigation is starting and to be prepared. At least at this time, the NCAA isn't looking away at this and whatever a FORMER director says is meaningless and speculation/guesswork. The issue is that there is no precedent for this at all. But we now know there are catch-all institutional control/ethics provisions as being a member of the NCAA in their bylaws, etc.

Read it here
 
B

BertramCooper

Banned
DarkFlow83 said:
How would that happen, you get nuked you lose scholarships. so how would they get there free schooling? You can't get a free ride for doing nothing.


Edit: I could be totally wrong and loss of scholarship might mean only new ones, I'm not really sure what happens when they get the death penalty.
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This is correct. Scholarship losses are always for future scholarships, not current ones. No student-athlete will have his scholarship yanked if the program gets sanctioned.
 
M

mambadragon

Banned
Horse Armour said:
Could someone write a short summary on this whole affair for non US GAF please?
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That's tough to do but I'll try.

Sandusky was an assistant football coach at Penn State and found to be a serial predator of young boys (including full on rape). Along with being a coach in a big football program with a rabid following of fans and alumni, Sandusky started his own charity (that was very successful) called the Second Mile for young boys and for this was considered well-respected and a good man.

There are over 10 kids that have come forward and likely a lot more, including his adopted son. There were also two witnesses who saw rapes of children, one a janitor (who told other janitors but never went to police) and a low level assistant coach of the football team. The coach told what he saw to his father and family doctor and then reported this to the head coach (a college football legend), athletic director, and vice president. Legally, this exonerates assistant coach and head coach, but the AD and VP are going to be tried for not reporting to the police. It sounds like there is damning evidence against the VP, AD, and president of Penn State.

There's a lot of extra reasons the case has become big. I'd summarize it to three:
1. There were so many adults in the PSU administration seemingly trying to cover this up to protect the money making football program.
2. The legendary head coach was fired, greatly upsetting the fan base (which can be described as cultish). Even for me who thinks he fully deserved to be fired, there's a sadness to it.
3. To say the least, Sandusky is a psychopath and extremely creepy and I think there's a fascination to that. He did an interview on national TV where he said some extremely strange things that only further made him guilty in the eyes of the public, and now there's love letters to the kids that have been exposed.

I write all this, and the scary thing you realize is an "element" of the story is the abuse of over 10 kids. The abuses themselves are so awful and it's just one part. It points out another thing in the flow of this story in that when the firing of the head coach happened, the fans lost sight of the crimes and seemed to care more about football.
 
B

BertramCooper

Banned
I think the Penn State board of trustees has done a commendable job cleaning house (and they continue to be harassed by the Penn State community in the process).

But the reason why I believe the program needs to be heavily sanctioned is that the dangerously insular culture of Penn State, which directly contributed to this tragedy, needs to be permanently broken. And I fear that won't happen unless something drastic is done.

No more deifying coaches (especially while they're still alive). No more treating horrific crimes as town gossip and inside jokes. It needs to stop.
 
D

Downhome

Member
Is this piece of trash now the most notorious child abuser? I mean, 45 counts, with God knows how many out there that we don't even know about. I can't remember the last time someone was just so utterly destroyed in court over something like this.

I'm glad this part of the story is over. Now convict the monsters who tried to cover it all up.
 
indigo-cyclops

indigo-cyclops

Member
Downhome said:
Is this piece of trash now the most notorious child abuser? I mean, 45 counts, with God knows how many out there that we don't even know about. I can't remember the last time someone was just so utterly destroyed in court over something like this.

I'm glad this part of the story is over. Now convict the monsters who tried to cover it all up.
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I know seriously. it feels like one of the quickest, swiftest trial/conviction of its kind. I had no idea last night was the jury dexision.
 
E

Enron

Banned
GoldenEye 007 said:
I've posted twice that the NCAA is indeed looking into this and has started an investigation. But just because Sandusky as an individual was found guilty at this time does not mean institutional investigations are over. The federal government still has to do their investigation along with any state inquiry too. The NCAA won't be intefering with that or tying PSU up as those investigations are ongoing - NCAA said as much.

Once again, here is the official letter from the NCAA to PSU notifying them that an investigation is starting and to be prepared. At least at this time, the NCAA isn't looking away at this and whatever a FORMER director says is meaningless and speculation/guesswork. The issue is that there is no precedent for this at all. But we now know there are catch-all institutional control/ethics provisions as being a member of the NCAA in their bylaws, etc.

Read it here
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And none of that is contrary to anything I said. The quotes from the NCAA president basically say all of this, but its been months and no peep out of it yet despite intense scrutiny and speculation. We know there is an investigation that has been opened.

What former Directors and Infraction committee chairs think is NOT irrelevant, as these are people more familiar with the rules than you or I or any other pundit. I don't know why you would discount their opinion.

INDIGO_CYCLOPS said:
I know seriously. it feels like one of the quickest, swiftest trial/conviction of its kind. I had no idea last night was the jury dexision.
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Well, it's pretty much open and shut honestly with the mountain of evidence compiled over the last 10 years or so.
 
D

drspeedy

Member
Not sure if anyone posted Log Prato's input (Lou's a longggggg time PSU historian/journalist and JoPa loyalist), but this pretty much sums up everything thing I'm hearing from alumni-not sure how to take he sentiment as a non-Pennsylvania myself but with many ties back there...


http://www.tvnewscheck.com/article/55649/penn-state-coverage-shows-media-at-worst

Lou Prato said:
Concern about the coverage is nothing compared to the obvious concern all Penn Staters have for the victims of child abuse and their children, and I mean that sincerely.

But the way most of the media has continued to portray Penn State, the people who live and work here, the students and faculty, the university’s football team and even our alumni base, one might get the idea this whole area is inhabited by a horde of callous, heartless child sex abusers. One cable TV talk show host called the Second Mile “a molestation farm.” Come on!

Now the many sanctimonious, self-serving, second-guessing critics in the media and the gullible, blood-thirsty public they incite and influence have made Penn State symbolic of all that is bad in the American culture — that is until the media moves on to another shark fest, leaving in its wake a lifetime taint of Penn State that will never go away no matter what the ultimate truth may be. 

I am worn out arguing, debating and thinking about everything that has happened to Penn State, to me, my family and many of my friends in the last few weeks, and it is difficult to believe everything reported thus far by the grand jury. Furthermore, it is even more difficult to believe Joe Paterno was so morally deficient as his millions of baying detractors in the media and outside it proclaim. It is so out of character of the man.

As for [Athletic Director] Tim Curley, I have met many liars in my life — particularly in academia — and I cannot believe Tim is a liar and morally deficient. OK, I understand. I and hundreds, if not thousands, of others were duped by Sandusky. So, as to Joe and Tim, we shall see, won’t we?
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B

BertramCooper

Banned
drspeedy said:
Not sure if anyone posted Log Prato's input (Lou's a longggggg time PSU historian/journalist and JoPa loyalist), but this pretty much sums up everything thing I'm hearing from alumni-not sure how to take he sentiment as a non-Pennsylvania myself but with many ties back there...


http://www.tvnewscheck.com/article/55649/penn-state-coverage-shows-media-at-worst
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Nobody is calling the Penn State community a bunch of sex abusers.

What we are calling them is a bunch of myopic, insular eccentrics whose blind worship of a football coach created an environment where really sick shit could occur. Because it's the truth.

It's really irritating how the PSU community makes themselves out to be victims.
 
S

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
Horse Armour said:
Could someone write a short summary on this whole affair for non US GAF please?
Click to expand...
a multiple child rapist was protected for a long time by a famous college because college football was more important to these people than the prior, present and continued rape of children. A heroic coaching figure was revealed to be as woefully culpable as everyone else and a defense force was assembled. Luckily he died. His secretive will revealed him to be an incredibly wealthy and likely corrupt child rapist enabler.
 
S

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
D

Devolution

Member
BertramCooper said:
Nobody is calling the Penn State community a bunch of sex abusers.

What we are calling them is a bunch of myopic, insular eccentrics whose blind worship of a football coach created an environment where really sick shit could occur.

Because it's the truth.
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Stinkles said:
a multiple child rapist was protected for a long time by a famous college because college football was more important to these people than the prior, present and continued rape of children. A heroic coaching figure was revealed to be as woefully culpable as everyone else and a defense force was assembled. Luckily he died. His secretive will revealed him to be an incredibly wealthy and likely corrupt child rapist enabler.
Click to expand...

If anything this case revealed just how rape gets swept under the rug and victims silenced all for the money and glory of powerful people. It should open eyes, not cause a virulent defense force of the college, its program or anyone in it. Everyone who was involved with the charity, programs Sandusky ran, and had any inkling or knowledge of what was going on should be heavily scrutinized. Now is not the time to back off but it's time to set, as a society, our fucking priorities straight for once.
 
B

BertramCooper

Banned
One cable TV talk show host called the Second Mile “a molestation farm.” Come on!
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This line gets me.

No doubt The Second Mile did help hundreds of kids, but it's pretty clear that one of Sandusky's primary goals was to use the organization to target at-risk children. So honestly, I don't find the talk show host's assessment to be all that brazen.
 
D

Devolution

Member
BertramCooper said:
This line gets me.

No doubt The Second Mile did help hundreds of kids, but it's pretty clear that one of Sandusky's primary goals was to use the organization to target at-risk children. So honestly, I don't find the talk show host's assessment to be all that brazen.
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Clearly we should be on the look out for hyperbole when it comes to the denouncement of Sandusky's charity because it's not like he used the damn thing as his trolling grounds for new victims.

Oh wait.
 
F

FyreWulff

Member
Devolution said:
If anything this case revealed just how rape gets swept under the rug and victims silenced all for the money and glory of powerful people. It should open eyes, not cause a virulent defense force of the college, its program or anyone in it. Everyone who was involved with the charity, programs Sandusky ran, and had any inkling or knowledge of what was going on should be heavily scrutinized. Now is not the time to back off but it's time to set, as a society, our fucking priorities straight for once.
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It scares me when people go "you don't realize how much of that football money supports your school".

There's not a single dollar out there worth covering up a crime for, especially rape
 
D

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
DarkFlow83 said:
How would that happen, you get nuked you lose scholarships. so how would they get there free schooling? You can't get a free ride for doing nothing.


Edit: I could be totally wrong and loss of scholarship might mean only new ones, I'm not really sure what happens when they get the death penalty.
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There's no way they'd go through the bad PR of eliminating the program and pulling associated scholarships. They'd eat the cost and continue the scholarships.
 
S

SouthernDragon

Member
Enron said:
If the Catch-All moral clause were enforced like you seem to think it is, then every single time a coach gets caught fucking an AD employee or player gets caught selling weed or stealing shit, then that opens the door for the NCAA to come in and start suspending programs and deleting seasons out of the record books. But it doesn't.
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Hey, I just wanted to point out that you compared illicit affairs, smoking weed, and theft to continued child rape that was covered up for at least 10 years, possibly more.
 
G

GoldenEye 007

Member
Enron said:
And none of that is contrary to anything I said. The quotes from the NCAA president basically say all of this, but its been months and no peep out of it yet despite intense scrutiny and speculation. We know there is an investigation that has been opened.

What former Directors and Infraction committee chairs think is NOT irrelevant, as these are people more familiar with the rules than you or I or any other pundit. I don't know why you would discount their opinion.
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I guess my question is more why would you have heard the NCAA say anything else at this point? If they previously stated they would not be interfering with things until the federal/state investigations are done, why should we expect them to say anything? This result was on an individual crime at this time. That doesn't mean state/federal institutional probes are not done - and we know they are not.

As for the former members, they may know the bylaws, but they do not know them with respect to this situation. There simply is no precedent for something like this that they would have experience with. NCAA has already outlined how this can be a violation and which parts of the bylaws could be violated. If there was absolutely nothing to be found, it is very likely the NCAA would have never put anything out in the first place. I'll wager that the initial letter was reviewed by many active officials and lawyers before it ever saw the light of day.
 
B

BertramCooper

Banned
Honestly, I think the NCAA is waiting for law enforcement to do all of the investigative work for them.

Which is probably for the best, given the NCAA's track record.
 
M

mre

Golden Domers are chickenshit!!
BertramCooper said:
Honestly, I think the NCAA is waiting for law enforcement to do all of the investigative work for them.

Which is probably for the best, given the NCAA's track record.
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The NCAA lacks subpoena power. Waiting for the legal process to work puts everything on the record which makes their job that much easier.
 
S

SerArthurDayne

Member
BertramCooper said:
Sandusky's lawyers tried to resign.

They claimed they didn't have enough time to prepare a defense. The judge denied their request.
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Gotta establish grounds for dat appeal! By the traditional standards of the adult legal system it was inordinately quick. I think the haste is within reasonable legal grounds, however. Practically, it is obvious they just want to put it behind them so they can pretend it never happened.
 
N

Neuromancer

Member
S

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
SerArthurDayne said:
Gotta establish grounds for dat appeal! By the traditional standards of the adult legal system it was inordinately quick. I think the haste is within reasonable legal grounds, however. Practically, it is obvious they just want to put it behind them so they can pretend it never happened.
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The constitution actually demands a swift and timely trial. Complaining that everything happened too efficiently for once isn't going to go anywhere. In fact, it guarantees a 'speedy' trial as a benefit to the accused.
 
S

SerArthurDayne

Member
Stinkles said:
The constitution actually demands a swift and timely trial. Complaining that everything happened too efficiently for once isn't going to go anywhere. In fact, it guarantees a 'speedy' trial as a benefit to the accused.
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Yeah, Speedy trial doesn't actually mean "speedy" in the traditional sense. This trial was very quick. I am willing to bet one of the grounds on the appeal was that they were not granted a continuance and that the case was unfairly prejudiced against them because they didn't have time to prepare. There were 50 charges after all.

I don't think it holds merit, but it is certainly an argument they could raise.
 
S

Shiv47

Member
From Deadspin:

Following guilty verdicts on 45 of 48 counts, Jerry Sandusky was shipped off to Centre County Correctional Facility, the same facility he was initially held in December. According to a fellow inmate at the time, known only as Josh, Sandusky was on the receiving end of some a cappella ridiculing.

Other prisoners were barred from communicating directly with Sandusky, but they could see him. And when the lights went out, inmates serenaded the disgraced coach with a famous line from Pink Floyd's "The Wall."

"At night, we were singing ‘Hey, teacher, leave those kids alone,' " Josh said, adding that everyone knew who Sandusky was because inmates had access to television and newspapers.

Jail is pretty fucking humiliating and crazy, huh Jerry?
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