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Person of Interest Season 4 |OT| Gods Will Be Watching Tuesdays 10/9c
- Thread starter Sober
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Keyser Soze
Member
I liked this...
firehawk12
Subete no aware
I... still don't get what the point of all that gang war stuff was, other than to have a villain to simply pop off at the end of the series to make a point about eliminating trouble makers.
Goddam if that doesn't bring feels. A friggen computer monitor.
A fucking computer monitor put some dust in my eye. The machine saying that maybe it would be for the best if it died was seriously heart breaking.
This is also something that ran through my head at the end. It seems that all they got was a tiny sliver of the machine and they will have to rebuild it using that data. There is no guarantee the end result will be the same. I believe our machine has gone to the great hard drive in the sky :*(
Pretty much. It's a really interesting direction to move in. Also even more interesting will be to see how they work the procedural element of the show into the start of next season as I'm not sure how to do that in the machine's current state lol.
Also curious if this will finally be the time where Fusco starts to question what the hell is going on around him (as he was standing right there when Samaritan killed Dom and maybe killed Elias) or if he will enjoy going back to blissful ignorance, as I feel like that continues to be a conscious choice on his part.
Lastly even if we got a glimmer of hope there at the end the season still ended in a rather dark spot. The correction really wasn't what I was expecting at all but it makes so much sense based on what Samaritan has been doing all season, planting little seeds everywhere. It is pretty much going to be running the government at this point but no one will even notice. Hope we see Control again, I've grown to like her a lot over the course of this season.
I couldn't agree more. I just rewatched this scene and it's a lot more different. Now Root and Shaw are shooting goons with zero recoil. Muzzle flashes sure are worse now but the hand-to-hand combat is pretty much still the same. Last episode my favorite part was the Samaritan agents shooting up the police suv which took zero visible damage. I'd rather just not have these parts.
Seeing this 3 years ago was hype as hell but since then we got Strike Back and Banshee. PoI just can't push that kind of action 22 episodes a season. I'd take 13 well written (or even slower) and produced ones than what we have now.
Oh and can't they show the team killing people (apart from the cringey neck snap in ep21)? Reese left pretty much everyone wounded but alive on the streets. Those guys were sent there to kill them.
Yeah, Fusco is a bit weird. Not because he can't figure out the truth, this is probably beyound his scope and imagination, but that only HR targeted him. Samaritan should've notice that he is dangerously often where it's plans are beaten down. And Fusco doesn't have any protection like the others.
Root is content with killing people, but refrain if possible because the Machine ask her to not kill people and Harold isn't fine with this. As for Reese, he decided himself that he don't want to kill after all these years of people telling to do so. He doesn't have a stale rule as shown with him being ready to kill the senator, but Harold holds him back. This is why he devolped his utmost hatred of kneecaps.
Yeah I find questioning the kneecapping to be a weird thing, especially in this case. I feel like one of the long running threads of this show since episode 1 has been if its cool to kill people or not. It's not like the show shies away from showing death: Reese kills a guy in the first episode, Root kills her fair share of people before joining the gang, and most of the flashbacks with Reese to his past are centered around him being a cold killer.
Thing is Finch isn't cool with death and he programmed the machine that way. Any time god mode is active all you are going to get is kneecaps. The one time the machine has been down to kill made it's "Father" upset with it which is something it certainly did not enjoy doing based on what we saw in this episode.
Honestly It would have been a really contradictory event had the machine apologized for its past actions to Finch and then the next scene had Reese gunning down an entire huge group of people using god mode.
Fusco has definitely heard the word "Samaritan" a few times. I think he even said something like "Samaritan?" once.
But he lets it be. I think Fusco is just happy that working with the Machine Gang has allowed him to return to being a good guy again, someone that his son can look up to proudly.
He's just concerned with doing the right thing and helping people, and doesn't really care about the why or how they know.
Incendiary
Banned
I've only got two ideas for next season's title:
Person of Interest Season 5 |OT| Welcome to the Machine
Person of Interest Season 5 |OT| The Parable of the Bad Samaritan
Person of Interest Season 5 |OT| Welcome to the Machine
Person of Interest Season 5 |OT| The Parable of the Bad Samaritan
I would also like to see more of that MI6 guy.
"Watchdogs"
was a word used by the senator, that talked to Control
I love the wordplay ...
... but that one is my favorite so far.
I think Samaritan was referring to the Machine.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
I had some problems with this finale, despite all the good stuff packed in.
My first problem and largest problem is the placement of "Welcome to the Machine". I know, it's an awesome song and I love Pink Floyd, that the start-up was so obtrusive where they placed it. That scene was supposed to be pretty emotional, but it lost a lot of its oomph with those on-the-nose lyrics placed there. I liked and can appreciate the idea they were going for, I mean the song fits perfectly with the show, but it just felt out of place there, at least to me.
My second real problem is Root and Reese not using any cover... twice. The show likes to play with this idea that the characters are immortal right up until they're not, but this was kind of ridiculous. They stood on the porch with no cover and just started shooting at Samaritan operatives while completely exposed. At the end, they made it even worse by actually walking at them, though the second case was a little more excusable since it was the ending and it was supposed to be more thematic than anything.
The third issue kind of really isn't all that major, and maybe that's strange considering, but I don't think the Machine hiding out in the power grid is possible. Maybe someone else can chime in here, but I work in power systems and there's a couple of flaws with that idea. First, especially based on Harold's explanation of how she did it, you can't just store data on power lines. Power lines, and by extension all cables, are a means of transportation for electricity (which is in the most basic form the data that the Machine is comprised of); unless the Machine can somehow alter the laws of physics and cause electron movements at will from within the transmission line, it's kind of impossible. Even then, what can be stored in transmission lines is basically just signals and not all the data that we're assuming the Machine is comprised of.
On that note, there is another way this would have made sense, but it actually creates some other holes in the logic. Power systems are mitigated by a series of control schemes, and more recently, even a lot of relays and devices that were formerly electromechanical have been replaced by digital devices. So, in theory, it would be possible to store the Machine's data in the small memory that these devices contain, as there are many of them. I'm not sure if that would be enough, though; these devices are maybe in the hundreds of thousands but even then, the amount of processing power that would be required to have the Machine complete any of its tasks wouldn't be met by all controls and digital devices in all of the United States. This is even including devices and technology past the transmission system, such as the generation systems.
The other problem that theory creates, and it may or may not be a problem entire concept of the Machine being on the power grid, is that generation and transmission systems are usually linked together by SCADA or similar Smart Grid technology, which is in turn connected to outside networks. They're pretty secure infrastructures, but we're talking about AIs capable of overriding most security measures here. The fact that Samaritan can't detect the Machine, even if she is on something that is typically not used to transfer data, is kind of an oversight by the writers.
Anyway, other than that, I thought it was a good episode. Just a couple of things rubbed me the wrong way. I had a feeling that the entire Control plot was a setup, but I expected the bombs to have been placed somewhere to frame her; apparently, that was reserved for someone else. On that note, RIP Grice, Dominic, Elias?, Control's assistant. Quite the way to close the book on Dominic, but I think Elias might survive and learn about the AI war following this - now that he's personally involved.
Critics have been drawing comparisons between this and Angel's series finale "Not Fade Away" apparently. As a huge fan of that finale, I can definitely appreciate the parallels, but this doesn't feel quite as definitive as that did (because, well, duh, this wasn't meant as a series finale). However, running out into that gun fight with just a sliver of hope in their hands definitely has that same feel the Angel finale had.
fucking what
My first problem and largest problem is the placement of "Welcome to the Machine". I know, it's an awesome song and I love Pink Floyd, that the start-up was so obtrusive where they placed it. That scene was supposed to be pretty emotional, but it lost a lot of its oomph with those on-the-nose lyrics placed there. I liked and can appreciate the idea they were going for, I mean the song fits perfectly with the show, but it just felt out of place there, at least to me.
My second real problem is Root and Reese not using any cover... twice. The show likes to play with this idea that the characters are immortal right up until they're not, but this was kind of ridiculous. They stood on the porch with no cover and just started shooting at Samaritan operatives while completely exposed. At the end, they made it even worse by actually walking at them, though the second case was a little more excusable since it was the ending and it was supposed to be more thematic than anything.
The third issue kind of really isn't all that major, and maybe that's strange considering, but I don't think the Machine hiding out in the power grid is possible. Maybe someone else can chime in here, but I work in power systems and there's a couple of flaws with that idea. First, especially based on Harold's explanation of how she did it, you can't just store data on power lines. Power lines, and by extension all cables, are a means of transportation for electricity (which is in the most basic form the data that the Machine is comprised of); unless the Machine can somehow alter the laws of physics and cause electron movements at will from within the transmission line, it's kind of impossible. Even then, what can be stored in transmission lines is basically just signals and not all the data that we're assuming the Machine is comprised of.
On that note, there is another way this would have made sense, but it actually creates some other holes in the logic. Power systems are mitigated by a series of control schemes, and more recently, even a lot of relays and devices that were formerly electromechanical have been replaced by digital devices. So, in theory, it would be possible to store the Machine's data in the small memory that these devices contain, as there are many of them. I'm not sure if that would be enough, though; these devices are maybe in the hundreds of thousands but even then, the amount of processing power that would be required to have the Machine complete any of its tasks wouldn't be met by all controls and digital devices in all of the United States. This is even including devices and technology past the transmission system, such as the generation systems.
The other problem that theory creates, and it may or may not be a problem entire concept of the Machine being on the power grid, is that generation and transmission systems are usually linked together by SCADA or similar Smart Grid technology, which is in turn connected to outside networks. They're pretty secure infrastructures, but we're talking about AIs capable of overriding most security measures here. The fact that Samaritan can't detect the Machine, even if she is on something that is typically not used to transfer data, is kind of an oversight by the writers.
Anyway, other than that, I thought it was a good episode. Just a couple of things rubbed me the wrong way. I had a feeling that the entire Control plot was a setup, but I expected the bombs to have been placed somewhere to frame her; apparently, that was reserved for someone else. On that note, RIP Grice, Dominic, Elias?, Control's assistant. Quite the way to close the book on Dominic, but I think Elias might survive and learn about the AI war following this - now that he's personally involved.
Critics have been drawing comparisons between this and Angel's series finale "Not Fade Away" apparently. As a huge fan of that finale, I can definitely appreciate the parallels, but this doesn't feel quite as definitive as that did (because, well, duh, this wasn't meant as a series finale). However, running out into that gun fight with just a sliver of hope in their hands definitely has that same feel the Angel finale had.
fucking what
I am no expert and that could something compeltely different, but are you aware of dLAN or Power-line communications?
I want to see this happen really bad but I don't think it will. Though really if he somehow survives I don't know where else they could go with his character, especially because unlike Fusco, Elias would be questioning what happened to cause him and Dominic to get shot and would follow that line all the way back to Finch.
Honestly, this was my only huge issue with the episode. Especially that final scene where apparently all the Samaritan guys turned into Stormtroopers, unable to hit the broad side of a barn.
Reese, Root and Harold just were walking, there were that many bullets flying, and NONE of them got hit?
Hell, I was practically expecting the end to be the case getting shot.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
I didn't know about this specific technology, and it is sort of related. I was kind of assuming they were talking about using the actual 138 kV (or however much it is regionally) lines, but this makes more sense. Still, the data can't just be sitting there on a transmission line or digital line. There has to be a point A and point B that is causing the transfer of data for the signals to be on a line.
Ah, Stormtropper syndrome.
Isn't the case bulletproof? I think when Root was duking it out with those two guys in the hotel, one of them shot at her and she used it to deflect the bullets.
I miss the times when they were all cheeky about the ass kickings these guys were dolling out, like that one time where they skip the entire fight and you just see some dude flying out the glass window from outside; or when Reese tackles a Vigilance guy out the window, lands on a car, and shrugs it off.
The Machine was in the little boxes and probably other devices.
The power grid is just used to network the boxes.
For me right now the plothole is:
How does the Machine still have access to all the cameras and data?
About using the big public power lines:
There is this, I don't know much about it, just googled for it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadband_over_power_lines
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
That's what makes more sense, but then that creates the other problem I talked about, how the heck the Machine derives all the requisite processing power from those devices, as many of them as there are? I don't have specs on me, but the smaller devices are usually PLC based and don't have much in the way of processing power. If you want to get into the larger systems behind these transmission and generation schemes like SCADA, those are almost certainly connected to larger networks, which is a problem since Greer claims the Machine wasn't on any network.
Actually, especially if the Machine has had access to all the cameras and outside data, it needed to be on a network with access to other outlying networks - so, the above makes more sense.
If the Machine were to ignore some basic rules, I even think it could use high voltage transmission lines to transfer data, to be completely honest. I'm not doubting it could do that. I was mainly talking about how Harold described it, actually storing the data on transmission lines.
It just sounds to me like they mixed a couple of concepts together incorrectly.
When did he say that?
I understood it as a metaphor, in the same sense that we "look something up" on the internet. But maybe I missed an important line you are referring to.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
I'll have to go back for the specific line, but he did go into a fair amount of detail about the lines as opposed to any of the other components that make up a power network. I don't know, maybe I'm crazy, but he definitely made it sound like the Machine was living in the power lines.
When watching a show as grand as PoI, I try not to sweat the small stuff and focus on the big picture. I've never been more engaged with the show than I am now, and I won't let things like bullet effects I barely notice or villains selectively having bad aim put a damper on that.
I'm not saying that those things aren't bad, but I'm disagreeing with the idea that those nitpicks ruined the show and made S4 "the worst". Also, I'm pretty sure the last shot was supposed to be more theatrical than logical, and the imagery sure as hell was effective.
I'm not saying that those things aren't bad, but I'm disagreeing with the idea that those nitpicks ruined the show and made S4 "the worst". Also, I'm pretty sure the last shot was supposed to be more theatrical than logical, and the imagery sure as hell was effective.
Were I a more clever individual, I'd try and find a succinct way to point out the irony that Jim Cavizel, who once portrayed the Son of God, is now working to help create the "child" of a "god" from a strand of its DNA.
Instead I offer these lamer suggestions:
Person of Interest S5 |OT| Surgery in Progress
Person of Interest S5 |OT| We've Lost Control
Person of Interest S5 |OT| You Belong Here
Person of Interest S5 |OT| Another CBS procedural that's all about a case
Instead I offer these lamer suggestions:
Person of Interest S5 |OT| Surgery in Progress
Person of Interest S5 |OT| We've Lost Control
Person of Interest S5 |OT| You Belong Here
Person of Interest S5 |OT| Another CBS procedural that's all about a case
The one at the end actually bothered me a lot, not a good moment to end the show on.
For the OT's tagline:
Maybe something can be done with the CBS acronym, like "CBS = Controlled By Samaritan"
Wait for the final ratings, please
MisterFalcon
Member
The show is filmed in New York which has extremely tight rules on safety regarding any sort of pyrotechnics. You cannot fire a blank, use a squib or even light a cigarette without extensive permissions and city safety inspectors present. And while many cities will do anything to make a show come there (Miami in Burn Notice for instance or Vancouver for a million other shows) NY will not make any special exceptions. So you get digital muzzle flashes, bad CGI explosions and actors who look as if they are reading the newspaper instead of being in a huge gunfight because it's utterly unlike a fight when shooting it.
Somehow the writers are totally unaware of this and keep writing these elaborate action set pieces where hundreds of rounds are fired.
Strike Back films in South Africa and Hungary where safety guidelines are 'whatever, go blow shit up'. I believe SB uses real guns with military blanks which creates a far more realistic look then Hollywood adapted guns built to fire blanks. Banshee films in a small town where the show is a huge boon to the local economy and they can do pretty much anything they want.
Keyser Soze
Member
Thanks for the insight, I did not know that. Still I remember the earlier seasons having an ambush with grenade launchers where I saw no problem with the effects. The ugly ass muzzle flares stared to show up in 'Skip'.
Yep. Though in Hungary apart from the street shots they get abandoned buildings mostly. I guess those are a bit harder to find in New York.
The Dutch Slayer
Member
I waited last week because I knew I wanted to the see the full final today both eps.
And I just did !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
!!!!
SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO GOOOOOOOD !!!!!!
I am not the one you kill you still alive?
And I just did !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
!!!!
SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO GOOOOOOOD !!!!!!I am not the one you kill you still alive?
D
Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
NTGYK must be kicking himself for ever necro bumping that Uncharted 4 delay thread.
On the episode's stats: How screwed are we?
Seemed to me it was the heart. Gonna have to rewatch it.
Actually, this is understandable. The writing team had no idea Sara Shahi was getting pregnant half season, which probably disorganized their whole freaking schedule. Having to think a way to get Shaw out of the game for the time needed so she could have her twins, and then organize the rest of the whole season (half season no less) to not having her must have been horrible to write on a show that airs new episodes on a weekly basis.
Unless she gets pregnant again, or Amy Acker gets pregnant too, I don't think we'll get writing this sloppy again.
On the effects, I guess it has to be the budget, plus the permissions they have to get from the city, I imagine it must be horrible to get it for each episode, so it's probably not worth it for them. Also, I remember some moments in S3 where I just said "those aren't good effects" but I just let it slide. I do remember a very good explosion at the beginning of a Vigilance episode where John end up in a car's windshield. There have been some good effects too, the explosion at the beginning of Asylum was good.
On the episode's stats: How screwed are we?
Seemed to me it was the heart. Gonna have to rewatch it.
Actually, this is understandable. The writing team had no idea Sara Shahi was getting pregnant half season, which probably disorganized their whole freaking schedule. Having to think a way to get Shaw out of the game for the time needed so she could have her twins, and then organize the rest of the whole season (half season no less) to not having her must have been horrible to write on a show that airs new episodes on a weekly basis.
Unless she gets pregnant again, or Amy Acker gets pregnant too, I don't think we'll get writing this sloppy again.
On the effects, I guess it has to be the budget, plus the permissions they have to get from the city, I imagine it must be horrible to get it for each episode, so it's probably not worth it for them. Also, I remember some moments in S3 where I just said "those aren't good effects" but I just let it slide. I do remember a very good explosion at the beginning of a Vigilance episode where John end up in a car's windshield. There have been some good effects too, the explosion at the beginning of Asylum was good.
If there's a fifth season, Shaw's not coming back. She's no longer a regular on the show.
She felt that once she had the kid, she wouldn't be able to perform as needed for the show and its stunts.
But she is still a lose thread. Well, then again, they could kill her off between seasons, but that would be lame.
D
Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
She said that? Oh shit. I can't believe we'll never get her back as a regular.
Is there a source for this? I've never heard this before.
It could all be a deception, but yeah, she said all that in her interviews following her last episode.
Here. Choice quotes:
EW said:
Oh right, the "2 years" comment. I really hope she reconsidered since January, because the creators indicated at Paley fest that they have a storyline cooked up for Shaw, and I feel like it would lose all momentum if she were really gone for that long. Also, I'm pretty sure the show won't last that long lol.
D
Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
Yep, if Nolan gets the 7 season plan done, she won't even be able to make it to that point. Dammit.
Very good finale. I appreciate the show's dedication to long term storytelling.
I think most were expecting the Samaritan storyline to end in the season 3 finale, instead it only really began there, and looks like it will be going through at least the end of season 5 (assuming it happens and it would be absolutely appalling if it didn't given the cliffhanger).
For what was originally a CBS procedural, a storyline and enemy spanning at least three seasons is impressive.
I think most were expecting the Samaritan storyline to end in the season 3 finale, instead it only really began there, and looks like it will be going through at least the end of season 5 (assuming it happens and it would be absolutely appalling if it didn't given the cliffhanger).
For what was originally a CBS procedural, a storyline and enemy spanning at least three seasons is impressive.
BlueLiquid
Member
Great finale! I wasn't expecting a grand victory over Samaritan yet but it was still satisfying to see how all of Root's little errands all came together in the end.
I think the music choice at the end was a little heavy-handed and took away some (just a little) of the emotional punch. Last week's surrender message had more of an effect, I think, due to the fact that we rarely ever see The Machine directly communicate with anybody other than Root, and even then we're not privy to exactly what she's saying. Still, I like the comparisons to the Angel finale. It does seem to fit.
Shame to hear about the ratings though. Even if CBS decides to take a pass on this show (for which I'd never forgive them) I'm sure someone will pick it up.
I think the music choice at the end was a little heavy-handed and took away some (just a little) of the emotional punch. Last week's surrender message had more of an effect, I think, due to the fact that we rarely ever see The Machine directly communicate with anybody other than Root, and even then we're not privy to exactly what she's saying. Still, I like the comparisons to the Angel finale. It does seem to fit.
Shame to hear about the ratings though. Even if CBS decides to take a pass on this show (for which I'd never forgive them) I'm sure someone will pick it up.
D
Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
Person of Interest Season 5 |OT| SIMMs of the Father
Pretty good finale; the first half of the season was better than the first, but overall I'm pleased with the direction this show is heading. There's no happy ending; Samaritan has apparently "won" again for the second year in a row and we get to see our scrappy agents keep fighting back from the shadows.
I'm glad Greer is still around, too. I don't love him or hate him, I just think he represents Samaritan well, not as an overtly evil dude but as a guy who just states the facts and always seems in control.
Pretty good finale; the first half of the season was better than the first, but overall I'm pleased with the direction this show is heading. There's no happy ending; Samaritan has apparently "won" again for the second year in a row and we get to see our scrappy agents keep fighting back from the shadows.
I'm glad Greer is still around, too. I don't love him or hate him, I just think he represents Samaritan well, not as an overtly evil dude but as a guy who just states the facts and always seems in control.
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