I'm with you on that. The last season was fatiguing for me. With Shah missing etc., it wasn't as good. I think 13 highly serialized episodes is more than enough to wrap it up and give us a good conclusion. No room for procedural filler anymore.
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Person of Interest Season 4 |OT| Gods Will Be Watching Tuesdays 10/9c
- Thread starter Sober
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I'm with you on that. The last season was fatiguing for me. With Shah missing etc., it wasn't as good. I think 13 highly serialized episodes is more than enough to wrap it up and give us a good conclusion. No room for procedural filler anymore.
Realistically, what is the probability of CBS renewing POI for another 13 episodes if the ratings return?
I like this question because if POI is forced to get more serialized to tell a complete their story and it becomes a rating boon, then this contradicts everything I think when I hear the words CBS.
I like this question because if POI is forced to get more serialized to tell a complete their story and it becomes a rating boon, then this contradicts everything I think when I hear the words CBS.
Almost 0.
D
Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
Interestingly enough, I do think that the ratings will go up again, however, I think it's going to be quite a complex thing to solve if the writers are told this is the last one.
Unless they come up with plan B while planning and writing for this season, to prevent a clusterfuck. But it's unlikely.
Unless they come up with plan B while planning and writing for this season, to prevent a clusterfuck. But it's unlikely.
The thing about filler is that the name is misleading. Rarely does any episode or scene or line not give some information or reinforced some characterization or even just giving some much needed spacing. True filler, stuff that actually provides no information on anything at all, is rare. It's not that I disagree that PoI couldn't use some slimming down, God knows it can. But it's a misconception to think that you could take an episode that is, say, 20% filler, remove it, and end up with the same meaningful experience except shorter. It's not even to say it will be better or worse, just fundamentally different in some way. The challenge Nolan will have is not "cut out the filler", but which filler to cut and which to leave in for optimal storytelling. In my opinion, 22 episodes a season is a but much, but 1 13 episode finale is a bit too short, since it might not leave room for filler where it needs to be.
D
Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
I just hope Nolan becomes more hands on this season, season 4 did not have a single episode written by him, and even less one directed by him.
Heck, I hope he directs the series finale.
Heck, I hope he directs the series finale.
Cripplegate
Member
Chris Fisher is directing it. Bet on it.
Relevance was an amazing episode, but if Nolan was interested in directing I'm sure he'd have done so again. The guy's a writer, though, and he's launching two new TV projects, so I wouldn't count on it.
D
Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
BTW, is it possible, with CBS to have the last episode be longer, or would they just count that as two episodes?
Well he has certainly directed some amazing episodes (heck my top 10 is filled with his episodes, with exception of two or three), so I wouldn't mind.
Well he has certainly directed some amazing episodes (heck my top 10 is filled with his episodes, with exception of two or three), so I wouldn't mind.
I could see this working out quite well as a movie if they needed to tie up any loose ends. Whether it can actually get funding is another story. A Netflix series would be great, too. I'm not too worried about the future of the show; it's had a great run regardless of what happens.
Welp, that explains the drop in quality.
Keyser Soze
Member
The thing is, if you want the show to have a good ending, CBS would have to tell the writers they will be getting Season 6 long before they start working on Season 5.
If at all possible, CBS should actually guarantee that Season 5 is the final season, or guarantee they are getting a Season 6 as soon as possible,. That way, the writers can work to and ending, and not have the goalposts move for them, thus making it more difficult to tell a coherent story.
BoboBrazil
Member
Awesome it is getting another season. I agree that they should let the writers know if it is the final season or not ahead of time. I think all the weeks in between new episodes started to hurt the show. Killing Carter was probably a bad idea for ratings overall also. I actually enjoy the show more without her now, but it was so shocking when she died since she was basically the main co-star of the series at that point.
Plageman has always been in charge day-to-day. Nolan hasn't written/directed since season 2. I'd say he's pretty hands off but still is pretty focused on the project if he shows up to pretty much any public event re: POI and the cast though for someone who's spending a lot of time on Westworld/Foundation.
I think POI's decline (and most shows') is a little to complicated to be attributed to EXACTLY one thing.
This is what I'm really worried about. They're supposed to be back at work July 5th or something. That's not a lot of time to figure out what's what.
D
Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
Well he did co-wrote one episode in S3 (The Devil's Share), but yeah, he's been pretty hands off now.
Hope that changes a bit at least.
Hope that changes a bit at least.
Keyser Soze
Member
One other thing I hope the writer don't do is fall back on the "Two Years Later" trope to propeel the story forward. It would be all too easy to do that from where they left with the finale, but it always feels a bit cheap to me.
Cripplegate
Member
Plageman had already confirmed in an interview that their plan is to pick up right after the cut to black, like the season premiere literally starts with them on the run, escaping from the firefight.
But yeah we'll see what they do now knowing they have a short order.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
Just heard about the 13 episode order.
Definitely feels like we're living in a post-Samaritan world.
Definitely feels like we're living in a post-Samaritan world.
D
Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
Just heard about the 13 episode order.
Definitely feels like we're living in a post-Samaritan world.
I know the feeling man. It's for the best, at least.
BoboBrazil
Member
13 episodes won't be bad. Will allow them to tell a tighter story with less filler. No more person of the week episodes hopefully. Just full on serialized tv going towards an end game.
Ragnarsson
Member
It feels bittersweet. Yeah, it's great that they're getting the chance to wrap it up, and as a fan of the series I'm thankful for being able to get some closure. This doesn't change the fact that one of the best shows on TV is ending way too soon.
LiquidSolid
Member
Seeing as CBS doesn't own it though, there is the small chance another network would pick it up?
This news sucks, especially since it means Sarah Shahi won't have enough time to really come back. The only good news I can get out of it is that a) At least it gets an ending and b) 13 episodes means there should be less stop-start scheduling. Still sucks though.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
I'm sure whatever the end result is, it will be great, but I just have to wonder if it'll be enough. Sure, they can trim some fat and at least cover the major developments they had planned out, but we'll never know what the true intent was going to be and it may not cover everything.
That said, I'm thankful we're going to get some closure at all. I'm not taking that for granted. Maybe some miracle happens and they get to continue in another form afterwards, but for right now, this will have to do.
That said, I'm thankful we're going to get some closure at all. I'm not taking that for granted. Maybe some miracle happens and they get to continue in another form afterwards, but for right now, this will have to do.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
I'm sure they'll adequately wrap up Shaw's storyline as well... she might not get a big overblown action sequence, but I'm sure we'll see some resolution to that.
Lord_Byron28
Member
Dissapointing but at least it's better than being out right cancelled.
BoboBrazil
Member
Could be a good Netflix pick up assuming this is the final season on CBS. They put up all the seasons don't they? This seems like it has a pretty big budget though.
Cripplegate
Member
I want him to work with Terrence Malick again. His performance in The Thin Red Line has always been one of my favorites.
Malick has practically been pumping them out lately, I feel like I can dream.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
What's wrong with him getting another excellent TV series?
I love how they've been able to develop Finch and Reese over the past four years.
He got blacklisted after Passion of the Christ and he hasn't been in many movies of blockbuster status. I want to see him in really big stuff. And The Escape doesn't count.
Honestly. I'm sort of ok with it being the final season. Things are starting to wind down I feel.
The finale was good, but I had a lot of nitpicks with it.
First is Root, I'm honestly tired of her character, it is either "We have to save Shaw!" or "We have to save the machine!!", back and forth, back and forth. I don't see much use for her character really.
Also I really thought it was a poor choice of music for the whole "Father" machine talk. Also didn't like how back and forth it was with Dominic and Elias, I was getting tired of Dominic threatening to kill and backing down. At least he finally got a bullet, but they of course conveniently left Elias' fate more uncertain. Same with Control.
But yeah, after the whole Samaritan thing I don't think there's much left for this show to reach for.
I was about to make a crack at how I really hope this is the last Season Finale where Greer gets his way, but if next is the last season than I guess it will certainly be.
The finale was good, but I had a lot of nitpicks with it.
First is Root, I'm honestly tired of her character, it is either "We have to save Shaw!" or "We have to save the machine!!", back and forth, back and forth. I don't see much use for her character really.
Also I really thought it was a poor choice of music for the whole "Father" machine talk. Also didn't like how back and forth it was with Dominic and Elias, I was getting tired of Dominic threatening to kill and backing down. At least he finally got a bullet, but they of course conveniently left Elias' fate more uncertain. Same with Control.
But yeah, after the whole Samaritan thing I don't think there's much left for this show to reach for.
I was about to make a crack at how I really hope this is the last Season Finale where Greer gets his way, but if next is the last season than I guess it will certainly be.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
I think, if this is indeed the final season, all the people that Finch and Reese have saved are going to come back into play in a big way. Right now, they're four hardcases and a briefcase computer. But they have allies, Zoe, Leon, Logan, the Judge, Control, reporters, scientists, finance guys, etc. They're gonna come back and help Team Machine hit Decima/Samaritan hard.
Just saw the news that next season is only 13 eps. Guess that means it's the last, surprising noone. At least we'll get an ending even if it's not the one they had planned years ago (if they had any)
Nemesis121
Member
Probably got renewed for Syndication, 100 episodes is required by most networks for syndication, POI sit at 90 eps, IMO if these rating numbers were after season 3 it would have been canned but since they close to the syndication sweet spot, CBS is praying it can make money off the syndication..
The Dutch Slayer
Member
13 eps hopefully they are all great.
We should start a sending things to CBS for support action
Like some show fans did in the past.
But I'm not sure what.
hopefully they are all great.We should start a sending things to CBS for support action
Like some show fans did in the past.
But I'm not sure what.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
You're fine to have your opinion, but I really feel like you've discounted all the stuff that's happened in between Shaw's disappearance and the final two episodes. Root really had the best, most complete, development through this season.
Also, and perhaps more importantly, Daniel Casey, Daizo, and Jason Greenfield haven't been brought back into play. I suspect they will be involved in bringing the Machine back to working order.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
I'm finally all caught up with the season.
Honestly, I thought the second halve of it kind of meandered too much. Felt a bit too filler-ish and didn't handle Samaritan as well as the previous season.
The finale was also rather underwhelming, with lots of poor cinematography and writing, which is very surprising given that POI is one of the most solid shows in both aspects. The scene with the shotgun and the elevator lacked any kind of tension, the compression one felt forced as heck and the final fight was simply unbelievable.
POI has already made a point in showing that Reese is not immortal, yet he basically strutted around like nothing, going full on Terminator on an army of well trained killers. It didn't even matter that they had him corraled. Similarly, the entire gang didn't even bother running when they came out of the building in the midst of a hail of automatic gunfire.
And they way they dealed with the outliers... Man. What a terrible way to bid farewell to some of the most charismatic characters of the show.
I don't know. It just felt really amateur, even out of character at times, as if they had brought some outsiders to film the season finale instead of the usual team. I'm sure the final season will do better, but still. Consider me soured.
Honestly, I thought the second halve of it kind of meandered too much. Felt a bit too filler-ish and didn't handle Samaritan as well as the previous season.
The finale was also rather underwhelming, with lots of poor cinematography and writing, which is very surprising given that POI is one of the most solid shows in both aspects. The scene with the shotgun and the elevator lacked any kind of tension, the compression one felt forced as heck and the final fight was simply unbelievable.
POI has already made a point in showing that Reese is not immortal, yet he basically strutted around like nothing, going full on Terminator on an army of well trained killers. It didn't even matter that they had him corraled. Similarly, the entire gang didn't even bother running when they came out of the building in the midst of a hail of automatic gunfire.
And they way they dealed with the outliers... Man. What a terrible way to bid farewell to some of the most charismatic characters of the show.
I don't know. It just felt really amateur, even out of character at times, as if they had brought some outsiders to film the season finale instead of the usual team. I'm sure the final season will do better, but still. Consider me soured.
I would want one episode that focuses on handling an irrelevant number.
That started their journey, after all. The team came together to help people.
Make it the last episode before the final episodes.
That of course assumes, that the Machine will even be able to get numbers.
Let Netflix do a spin-off with various characters and what they are doing while the main story is going on. Some of Root's exploits, Leon trying not get into trouble and somehow ending up accidently discovering parts of Samaritan, Greers day off watching lame family shows, Martine getting disattracted by cute puppies, etc.
piratepwnsninja
Member
I hope the writers contact Netflix as soon as possible. I don't want POI to end. 13 episodes are not nearly enough to write a good ending.
13 episodes is plenty for a good ending if they pick up and go from right from where this season left off.
Honestly, we are all better of if the writers just plan on the 13 episodes being it and finishing things out than if they flail about and try to make attempts to keep the series going elsewhere, because that'll likely mean that they leave balls hanging in the air.
I'd rather have a clear resolution to everything than have some hanging threads on the minuscule possibility of it being revived elsewhere.
It got over 100 episodes. Very, very few shows achieve that.
I'd rather have a clear resolution to everything than have some hanging threads on the minuscule possibility of it being revived elsewhere.
It got over 100 episodes. Very, very few shows achieve that.
Keyser Soze
Member
People need to stop wishing for more show, you will just end up ruining what might be good end to the show.
If CBS have decided something, and told the writers that "something," and then fans cause enough ruckus to alter that in some way, then that does more damage than good IMO.
Let the writers work to an ending, and fans have the best chance of getting a good ending to a show they love
If for some reason John or Harold was always planned to die at the end of the show, then the writers should not be afraid to do that. There should be no question in their minds that the show is ending, and thus they will finish POI in the way they feel they should.
If there is any lingering doubt there might be a S6 when S5 comes to an end (and then CBS do not order a S6), then the show will have ended with some opened ended crap that no one will be happy about.
POI is getting 13 episodes to tell a possible 3 seasons worth of possibly vague ideas the writers had. Condensing those ideas down a bit is not bad, it is exciting. I remember Dollhouse condensing about 5+ seasons worth of ideas into 5 episodes to try tie a bow on that show. The ending there was kinda insane - but it worked. Compared to that, in the grand scheme of things, POI has an entity.
One thing to be concerned about would be what the budget of the show is now.
If it is severely cut, and they are forced into shooting out of steamy warehouse and back allies for all 13 episodes that would be bad.
If CBS have decided something, and told the writers that "something," and then fans cause enough ruckus to alter that in some way, then that does more damage than good IMO.
Let the writers work to an ending, and fans have the best chance of getting a good ending to a show they love
If for some reason John or Harold was always planned to die at the end of the show, then the writers should not be afraid to do that. There should be no question in their minds that the show is ending, and thus they will finish POI in the way they feel they should.
If there is any lingering doubt there might be a S6 when S5 comes to an end (and then CBS do not order a S6), then the show will have ended with some opened ended crap that no one will be happy about.
POI is getting 13 episodes to tell a possible 3 seasons worth of possibly vague ideas the writers had. Condensing those ideas down a bit is not bad, it is exciting. I remember Dollhouse condensing about 5+ seasons worth of ideas into 5 episodes to try tie a bow on that show. The ending there was kinda insane - but it worked. Compared to that, in the grand scheme of things, POI has an entity.
One thing to be concerned about would be what the budget of the show is now.
If it is severely cut, and they are forced into shooting out of steamy warehouse and back allies for all 13 episodes that would be bad.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
Even if they pick up right where they left off, judging by the producer's original intentions of running for some 150+ episodes, there are some story elements that they had planned that just won't make the cut.
There's a risk-reward dynamic with them producing a season and leaving the story hanging while they shop the show to other networks. The payoff would be huge if they succeed. I would hardly consider it a flailing attempt, though. Just on sheer number of viewers, the show does really well; in terms of demographic, it would be considered as doing well if it weren't produced by an outside studio. It probably has a better shot of continuing through another outlet than some of the shows that have been revived in recent years.
However, I'm not getting my hopes up that they'll even try. I don't pretend to know all the intricacies of network television production.
I disagree the the answer is so clear-cut. There are a lot of different angles to this. It's up to the producers to ultimately decide how to proceed, but it's not a decision that should be considered so offhandedly.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
I can't believe we are complaining about the final season.
POI has got a huge mileage and dropped some of the best season finales in recent history. To be able to wrap up the entire show in one neat season with no time for filler is a blessing.
We should be happy it never overstayed its welcome. So many shows would love to reach 30 episodes before going down the shitter, let alone getting over 100. Count your blessings, POI-GAF.
POI has got a huge mileage and dropped some of the best season finales in recent history. To be able to wrap up the entire show in one neat season with no time for filler is a blessing.
We should be happy it never overstayed its welcome. So many shows would love to reach 30 episodes before going down the shitter, let alone getting over 100. Count your blessings, POI-GAF.
Wiktor
Member
i caught up. What a finale! Jesus The Slaughterer Reese Balls of steel.
Sucks that next season will be last and cut short. I wanted to experience the glorious 7 seasons they've originally planned, but at least they will get to end the story. Especially since they likely won't do any more procedural elements.
I will miss this show like hell though. It truly was a miracle series. When I saw upfronts promo all those years ago I thought it could be fun little show about Cavieziel kicking-ass. Never expected it to get this big.
Balls of steel.Sucks that next season will be last and cut short. I wanted to experience the glorious 7 seasons they've originally planned, but at least they will get to end the story. Especially since they likely won't do any more procedural elements.
I will miss this show like hell though. It truly was a miracle series. When I saw upfronts promo all those years ago I thought it could be fun little show about Cavieziel kicking-ass. Never expected it to get this big.
piratepwnsninja
Member
But of those 150+ episodes, how much of the actual story was going to be told in 4 minute chunks within "Number of the week" episodes that make up a majority of what the show was? I'm sure there is fat to trim, and while we might not get the entirety of the seven season story they had planned, we can at least get an ending that makes sense in the context of the show as it currently exists.
Note, also, I said 13 episodes is enough to give the show a good ending. Nowhere did I mention them telling the entirety of the story they originally had planned.
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