Person of Interest – The Fifth and Final Season |OT| "Thank you for creating me."

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MaKTaiL said:
I have mixed feelings about this episode.
It was great and all but I saw the twist coming from a mile away. But what really felt odd for me was seeing that the simulation is really life like on the monitor at the end. I feel like the show just moved from scifi to Fantasy there. Look at those graphics, it doesn't make any sense that they would be able to see exactly what Shaw was seeing the entire time.
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This is exactly how I felt. This is exactly how Mission Impossible TV series
went down the hill with machine capable of recording someone's dream or vice versa in the final season
.

Not only that.
If simulation keeps real time (waited an hour before shooting Greer) then how the fudge are they able to test it 6000+ times already? Has ten years passed since her capture???
 
darkwing said:
how did you get the 10 years?
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Just random number I pulled b/c I couldn't see how that
many simulations which seem to take at least 3- 7 days in real time could be repeated almost 7000 times in small span of time since her last disappearance. Even if assumed earlier simulations only took few hours or whatever
 
It does not mean it have to be real-time. 1 hour can last 10 minutes, and they know that, so when he says it took 1 more hour, 10 minutes could have passed and he is just converting the time.
 
MartyStu said:
No that is not what I mean.

Trying to wing it and moving their operation has a much higher chance of getting them discovered than staying put: something that has undisputed worked for them thus far.

And that does not even address the fact that if Samaritan's agents discover this hideout, it would be trivial to find the train thereafter.



Dunno, I never really bought Shaw's entire deal. Always seemed to me that the writers liked the novelty of having a sociopath on the team, but not so much the reality when it came to growing the character.

'Razgovor' both reaffirms, and then promptly rejects what she is. As does 'Devil's Share'. And after those, both 'Allegiance' and 'Death Benefit' are both on the 'fuck it, Shaw is sappy as fuck' train.

As Gen says in 'Razgovor', her emotions are muffled, but they are clearly there. And the longer she is around the other members of the team the more obvious it is that they thrive.

Either she is so good at faking them that they may as well be real to us, or she has normalized as she has become older.

Another option is that she just lacks empathy for those that do not provide some level of utility to her but is otherwise normal. Explains both 'Razgovor' and 'Allegiance', but not the disparity in reactions when it comes to Carter's and her father's deaths.
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She almost cried about her father in that episode where she told Fusco about the story of how her parents met. She definitely has strong emotions, they just take a long time to come to the surface, and the volume on them is usually turned way down.

A lot of this episode was about her confronting the feelings she had for Root that she probably kept buried pretty far down. I think enjoyment of this episode largely hinges on how invested you are in that pairing, which explains the polarizing responses in this thread. Some criticize it as "nothing happening", while people who care about the ship see it as Shaw unexpectedly reciprocating Root's feelings in a big way. On the matter of her personality disorder, Shaw is less a sociopath and more a tsundere who thinks she's a sociopath.
 
Fun episode to watch, but they teased what was happening in Root's apartment scene and pretty much spoiled the ending when Shaw shot John. I wonder if they'll wait with Shaw's next appearance until the final showdown.
 
Great episode.
I thought there were multiple implants for most of the episode.

I wonder if she realizes what is going on. The first clue could be the amount of broken plates. It turned into a sight gag at the end of that scene.
 
Then maybe I just don't like the pairing, or maybe it's more emotional lashing out at the Shaw character and the actress. Happy for her, but the show struggled to pivot in the 2nd half of last season. My honest opinion is that the character should have died in the stock market.

In it's place, we now have a plotline that's a little too much sci fi, VR Brainwashing, which cannot be taking place in realtime. If each event lasted a day, 6471 events would take 17+ years.

At this point, I cannot believe that she will be able to escape on her own, simply because it'll be retreading this episode. She'll either be set free because she's now turned, or freed by someone else (and it'll be up in the air if she's trustworthy or not). Maybe something done to her will lead to a Samaritan solution, because I can't see much good in her return. I feel she'll end up killing one of the others. My guess is
Root, now that they have setup a starcrossed romance there.
 
Shameless self-promotion but here are my thoughts on "6,741". Hoping/planning to do more reviews of this season's episodes as we go along. This one is a longer one cause there was a bit more to unpack I found. Maybe the rest will be too? I can only hope.

spoilers: Lonestar will not like the conclusion I came to. :P
 
I see (and saw) most of those things as it was going on, specifically the "non-subway mentioning" and the "Root's Apartment" which to me looked more like Shaw's apartment.

It was decently crafted to be implied as a "Shaw'd" re-creation of her life. Where her "Hammer" technique works 100% of the time, and people around her are "stunted" versions of themselves (Reese and Finch). It just seems like a waste of an hour (limited amount left*) to show that, yes, Shaw now returns those feelings towards Root.

Though now there's a star-crossed twist on it (what will happen when they meet again in real life).

Tonight's episode should be interesting (Do not look at guest casts list).
 
The more I've thought about this episode over the past day, the less I've liked it. When you consider especially that Person of Interest has already had an episode largely based in simulation with If-Then-Else, this one really paled in comparison to me. I think the fact that the working nature of Samaritan's simulation is never explained really hurts the believability of the whole thing, even beyond the whole "nothing actually happens in this episode" argument. I'm left with two questions which, taken in conjunction, kind of break the episode for me: How much of the simulation is Samaritan's design vs. what Shaw's mind takes and runs with, and what exactly is Greer/Samaritan's intent with running the simulations at all?

Greer's conversation at the very end of the episode implies that the goal of this exercise is to mine into Shaw's mind for information about the team and the location of their base. If that's the case, then why is so much of the simulation's time spent running with the notion of Greer attempting to "turn" Shaw entirely and going through issues of multiple implants and brainwashing and her struggling with killing her teammates or not? The whole thing starts to turn in the coffee shop, when Shaw gets sick of fake-Root and fake-Reese secretly wondering whether they can trust her...but that suspicion is largely brought on by Shaw's actions and the weird "flashes" she goes through, with or without the chip. Without that ambiguity, that conflict, the rest of the team would be more likely to trust her and presumably get her back "home" sooner. Or are we to assume that the interference Shaw experienced was actually her own mind lashing back against the narrative the simulation was trying to construct? Why would fake-Greer take credit for it in the church, then? It feels like no matter what, somewhere along the line there's something that doesn't add up to explain just how it all played out vs. what Samaritan was hoping to get out of it. And for that, ultimately we don't even know just how much of a real glimpse this gives us into Shaw's psyche, or if this is just Greer's guess of how Shaw thinks in order to try and move the simulation along. We're just left to speculate, and it feels like speculation that will ultimately never be properly addressed.
 
I think the episode is pretty cool, just frustrating when we have so few episode left.

I bet that it was written before they knew of the super short season order.

The simulation being shown on screen is a mistep though. I think it was done entirely in service to the drama without considering the implications.
 
Is that one of if not the quickest reaction time the Machine's had as far as delivering a number and the immediacy of the crime coming to pass? The shots were already fired before it even tried to alert anyone.
 
l396BUUam0WG5GzG8.gif
 
Danny 117 said:
Oh shit!!

EDIT: I could swear I saw
Shaw's
actress credited at the start of the episode. Did I miss her?
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I saw the name too.

I think the writers are keeping it in so you'll be surprised when she actually comes back. If the name is always there, you know she's coming back..but when.
 
Both exciting and also kind of saddening, given that they pulled back on what had been a quick and shocking elimination at the end of last season, as well as the fact that he just seemed so defeatist. For good reason, perhaps, but still. I'll be curious to see what happens with Bruce now that they seem to be reintroducing him as a bigger player.

Also shit, we're getting three episodes in two days next week? This might actually be too much.
 
Doorman said:
Both exciting and also kind of saddening, given that they pulled back on what had been a quick and shocking elimination at the end of last season, as well as the fact that he just seemed so defeatist. For good reason, perhaps, but still. I'll be curious to see what happens with Bruce now that they seem to be reintroducing him as a bigger player.

Also shit, we're getting three episodes in two days next week? This might actually be too much.
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Too much? I wish I got the full season all at once so I could marathon it
 
Nobility said:
I saw the name too.

I think the writers are keeping it in so you'll be surprised when she actually comes back. If the name is always there, you know she's coming back..but when.
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She most likely comes back in episode 7. We know she has 8 episodes this season, and she has already been in one, with 8 episodes remaining.
 
That ending was so good, loved it, so happy!!!

Also I said it back when we found out about season 5 possibly being the end but seeing the stuff with Bruce really reaffirms to me that they could come up with some great storylines for a few more seasons. The stuff with Bruce looks promising but with so few episodes left it won't get the time it deserves to be awesome.
 
Oh God, oh man. What a great episode.
Shieeet, Samaritan is really eyeing Fusco now. And he's asking questions with much more insistence!

So good to see Elias, after the S4 finale, I thought that he might have had survived, but after the first episode, I was sure he was dead. Very nice surprise. Thought for a second there that they were going to show Bruce the Machine haha. But Elias does seem to know the entire truth, which is a nice continuation from this episode of last season.
 
That reveal was one of the 2 things I accidentally saw in a future episode promo.

There's another.

My guess on what Bruce's return might mean:
Well, maybe the team can get some funding again. Remember the "offshore accounts" brought up last time we saw Bruce. Plus, maybe Team Machine can have it's own army of goons.
 
Lonestar said:
My guess on what Bruce's return might mean:
Well, maybe the team can get some funding again. Remember the "offshore accounts" brought up last time we saw Bruce. Plus, maybe Team Machine can have it's own army of goons.
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Son of gun, if that happens. Every little detail in this series counts. I love it.

EDIT: Also, Sober, great review. I have to agree. Even if we want every single second of these last episodes to count for the big storyline. Truth is, that part of the satisfaction (if not most) we'll gain from the conclusion will come from the characters themselves. As Sober said in his review, it's through these episodes that we're finally getting to climaxes of these hardened, even asocial characters. Heck just see what John told Fusco after
Finch said he was looking for him
. He's changing. If Truth Be Told was to John like Root Path was to Root, then I can say 6,741 was to Shaw like Terra Incognita was to John. We might not have the conclusion right now, but when we do, 6,741 will perhaps be seen in a more favorable light by some.

Root, Finch and Fusco don't need these episodes, they pretty much have had these transformations earlier in the series. Fusco in S1, Root in S3, and Finch had this transformation shown in flashbacks. Looking at it that way kind of highlights Carter role as a moral compass in the team even more, because she didn't go through a transformation of her 'rules' (maybe perhaps helping Lionel when he was investigated for corruption, or helping the team with the numbers, but it wasn't as big as the others, IMO), and left the show that way.
 
Enjoyed the episode. Although Fusco needs to be let in about the machine/samaritan. He's been almost killed nearly every episode getting caught in the crosshairs. I have a feeling he won't find out the truth until his number comes up.
 
I wonder if we will ever be seeing the 'fixer' guy again, the guy who besides Root was the only one to ever outfox Finch where he had a network of deals connecting through different phones.
 
flintstryker said:
I wonder if we will ever be seeing the 'fixer' guy again, the guy who besides Root was the only one to ever outfox Finch where he had a network of deals connecting through different phones.
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He sounds like he may become a casualty of the shortened order.

I am sort of relieved actually. At this point, any and all stories not explicitly tied to the bigger story need to be pretty damn good in order to preempt serial content.

Last episode was one such. The series has one, maybe two of those left and I would rather it not be wasted on discount Root.
 
MartyStu said:
He sounds like he may become a casualty of the shortened order.

I am sort of relieved actually. At this point, any and all stories not explicitly tied to the bigger story need to be pretty damn good in order to preempt serial content.

Last episode was one such. The series has one, maybe two of those left and I would rather it not be wasted on discount Root.
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Dunno bro he seemed almost as cool as Root to me, but you're right seeing we only have a few episodes left I suppose we can't go wasting them on irrelevant (lol) material
 
Juan29.zapata said:
Oh God, oh man
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wBUrfrp.gif


This.

Fucking.

Show.

Does this mean Control is dead and gone? I think Plageman teased a while ago that one character we think might be dead isn't, and I always assumed this confirmed that we hadn't seen the last of Control, particularly because we don't see her die on screen... but in a way I suppose this is fitting. Control's end is a poetic justice, whereas Elias has always been a survivor, defying odds (probably part of the reason why so many people predicted that he was still alive haha).
 
Cripplegate said:
wBUrfrp.gif


This.

Fucking.

Show.

Does this mean Control is dead and gone? I think Plageman teased a while ago that one character we think might be dead isn't, and I always assumed this confirmed that we hadn't seen the last of Control, particularly because we don't see her die on screen... but in a way I suppose this is fitting. Control's end is a poetic justice, whereas Elias has always been a survivor, defying odds (probably part of the reason why so many people predicted that he was still alive haha).
Click to expand...

Did we ever
"think Control was dead" though? The way it all happened made it seem pretty clear that, wherever she is, she's still alive at least. So I don't think she'd be relevant to Plageman's hint.
 
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