CrimsonFist
Member
He was gold in Persona 2 though.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Persona Community Thread |OT7| P5 is nyaow. (Mark all PQ and P4U spoilers!)
- Thread starter Dantis
- Start date
- Status
He was gold in Persona 2 though.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
And his mask has a purple butterfly wing in Persona right?
I just like the blue ones the best lol
I don't quite remember it in P3 compared to P4, but I do remember being surprised by just how many different, dynamic portraits there were when I first played Persona 2.
Persona 3 isn't as varied as Persona 2 is, but it still has more variety than Persona 4. Yukari, for example, has two poses with about six expressions for each of them. Most characters are pretty similar. Aigis has three poses, but less expressions for each of them.
In contrast, Yosuke has only one pose, but he has more varied expressions (eight or so) compared to characters in Persona 3. Most of the cast of that game is likewise similar, with only one specific posture for most characters.
What makes Persona 2 stand out more is that each expression is usually accompanied by a different pose, where as Persona 3 and Persona 4 have a much more limited variety of postures for their portraits. Lisa, for example, has 11 expressions, each with her in a different posture. Likewise, the rest of the main cast have similar amounts. It makes it look like there's more variety, even though there actually isn't.
It's also worth pointing out that Innocent Sin and Eternal Punishment have different portraits, even for returning characters who haven't changed in appearance otherwise.
Mobile Suit Gooch
Grundle: The Awakening
I wanna be a troll in Persona 5.
I actually think P5 won't have portraits of any kind, and Persona Q was the first game showing them moving away from it.
CrimsonFist
Member
I'm expecting Catherine style models and no portraits.
I actually think P5 won't have portraits of any kind, and Persona Q was the first game showing them moving away from it.
Oh hey, that's right. I didn't even think of that, but Persona Q is the first Persona game without any portraits. From the look of things, it doesn't seem P4D will have static portraits, either. That actually does make me think P5 won't.
Ugh. I think I can accept it, but I like my visual novel style conversations. I hope they keep them.
Yeah, that was the whole idea of making realistic character models I bet. I still think it's a part of its identity and I'd love for it to stay. At least in the menu or something.
If that is the case, which I think it is, I hope they're not pushing some crazy fidelity. I think Persona staying budgeted is one of the best things about the franchise for sustainability.
If they are in, they definitely won't be static I think. I don't think they worked too well on P4Arena (although that was ArcSys).
I want to say a long long time ago (before the November 2013 event) they kind of basically said it wouldn't, but I can't actually find a source on that.
I'm pretty sure they said they're aiming for realistic character models.
Do you mean P5? If so, they hadn't explicitly said they wouldn't, but I think I probably know what you're talking about:
It was from the 555 Dengeki PlayStation issue following the November 24, 2013 reveal.
Yeah, that's why there was speculation before that they'd be leaning towards a presentation style like Catherine's.
Yeeeeah, that's it! Thank you based Flux.
It's not explicit confirmation, but it'd be pretty silly to use fully sized models and yet continue to use portraits for cutscenes. Especially with PQ already using models for it's own.
GamingBird
Member
Then why have the teaser trailer for p5 be in the standard anime style?
If it was Catherine style no portraits, why bother with that anime style trailer?
makes no sense at all
Because that was actually in-game footage from Persona 5.
CrimsonFist
Member
Full size models makes me wonder how populated the world is going to be, especially since it looks like they're going for a pretty busy setting.
Catherine had anime cutscenes.
Catherine had anime cutscenes.
Xenoflare
Member
Catherine had plenty HD anime cutscenes.
What's to suggest P5 won't have the same?
A Dead Diehard
Member
I'm thinking if they had different expressions to go with each status ailment, that would be a good touch.
Sony Playstation Japan's been on a bit of a roll putting out exclusive PS4 SKUs in collaboration to some of the upcoming PS4 releases e.g Dragon Quest Heroes bundle/Type-0 Suzaku Red edition..and it's been giving them a nice bump in sales (though some might still consider it relatively low).
Judging by how the Sony executives treated that "Persona 5 on PS4" as a major piece of news during that pre-TGS conference,it's not quite too far-fetched to think that they might have one in the works for Persona 5, since that's definitely viewed as one of the possible major PS4 titles for Sony to move some PS4 units (at least in Japan, that is).
Just hoping that they will come out with a English edition of the PS4 SKU if it does happen though...if not, I'll probably just get that Japanese bundle and double dip on a physical English copy.
GamingBird
Member
surely u jest
also, catherine did not have HD anime cutscenes, weren't those all engine rendered cutscenes?
p5's teaser trailer actually has the standard p4g type anime cutscenes, not in engine
A Dead Diehard
Member
Can a Japanese PS4 play english everything? I'd say I'd doubt Atlus releasing a P5 PS4 over here, but they did release the PQ 3DS...
WrenchNinja
Member
How many GAFers have been on S Link FM?
No. Catherine had a number of animated cutscenes. Studio 4°C handled them, and they're very well done.
The system is region free just like the PS3 before it, if that is what you're asking. I've downloaded and played quite a few of the Japanese demos on there.
Ok. So if they do release one, it doesn't *have* to come out over here, I can just import it to play english games. Excellent.
Ok. So if they do release one, it doesn't *have* to come out over here, I can just import it to play english games. Excellent.
Yep, import it for literally ~$700.
Yep. Just go with some butterfly decals and be done
UltraGunner
Banned
I don't know why, but the possibility of the traditional portraits going away makes me bummed out.
Famitsu article with a bunch of videos showing off P4AU version 2.00.
That possibility actually makes me excited, as I've said in the past how much I liked the way the scenes were directed in Catherine and I think I'd prefer something close to that rather than disjointed portraits if the game had the fidelity for it, even though I liked the portraits in previous Persona games.
That possibility actually makes me excited, as I've said in the past how much I liked the way the scenes were directed in Catherine and I think I'd prefer something close to that rather than disjointed portraits if the game had the fidelity for it, even though I liked the portraits in previous Persona games.
Green Mamba
Member
Catherine's a much shorter game than Persona and the idea of them keeping up that level of presentation for everything in the game is absurd.
Though maybe they are and that's why the game is taking so long. lol
Though maybe they are and that's why the game is taking so long. lol
That's pretty good thing to be bummed out about, there isn't enough quality 2D art in games these days.
I'm not just talking about key scenes, I'm talking about the others in Catherine that aren't scrutinized. Like any game, Catherine has dialogue scenes where the camera isn't panning or zooming around, but it still emphasizes the character's emotions through pre-set facial and body animations, not to mention the fact that the camera is usually closer to the characters than in Persona. That's what I mean when I say I'd like it if Persona 5 resembled that, and that kind of presentation for mundane, non-cinematic dialogue scenes isn't on another level of presentation compared to Persona 3 or Persona 4, just on a different plane.
Green Mamba
Member
I know what you're talking about, but those are basically prettier Persona scenes... without the face graphics. I mean, you can have your preferences, but that feels like a net loss to me.
Same here, and I think Persona being such long JRPGs, that it should remain budgeted in some way like it is right now. High fidelity is great and all, but I don't think it's a great thing longterm to fall back on that.
I understand that they need to advance in some form, so animated portraits would be great for that. I just don't anticipate it having fidelity like Catherine for 50 hours.
Daidara is actually Sho from the Trinity Soul Timeline's future come back to the present to be around better writing.
I think I'm going to need you to explain this one to me, but I'll share my thoughts first.
Well, first off, like you say ("advancement"), Persona 5 can't go looking like a PS2 game. P Studio is full of talented people—artists—and they've demonstrated it through pretty much all of their games. Persona 5 is a game that will be on the PS4. I'm not sure what you mean when you say high fidelity, but it's not a game anyone would want to look ugly. Neither the developers or the fans would be happy with that, and it would look even worse when you consider the platforms it's on.
Moving away from the point conceptually, there's the fact that they finished developing their own, internal engine for the game four years ago for the sole purpose of facilitating asset generation and overall development for the game. Persona 5 isn't meant to be some technically poor game compared to the competition for the sake of a low budget; it's meant to be the apotheosis of everything not just P Studio, but Atlus has built until this point. They said it themselves, Catherine taught them a lot about HD development; knowledge that they can obviously transfer towards P5. Persona 5 will be Atlus' most significant game ever, and I'm pretty sure I'm not exaggerating when I say this. The game is going to reflect that not solely from a budget standpoint, but from a (proportional) presentation standpoint.
And then there's the subject of hard data. Catherine is a ~20 hour game, which took ~3 years to develop, using a third party engine, on HD platforms Atlus had never developed for in the past, in a genre they were unfamiliar with. Going with your statement of 50 hours: Persona 5 is a ~50 hour game, which will have taken ~6 years to develop, using Atlus' own internally developed engine, in an established series Atlus is familiar with, developed for HD specs Atlus is now familiar with, and now with the backing of Sega (and, maybe even Sony). If you just compare the two, it pretty much balances out, does it not? I'd even argue that the balance is not heavy enough on P5's side, in this equation.
I don't think you should worry about Atlus' budget; Sega and the rest are probably pretty aware of all of that stuff and how much it applies to a game of P5's scope. This makes me think of someone worrying about P3 being too high budgeted, potentially looking "too good" and being too large in scope (it was significantly longer than P2:EP) compared to Persona 2: Eternal Punishment, which preceded it years ago. If they were to hold back like that, there would be no great advancement and things could even become stale, which is a very bad thing. Atlus are great at reusing assets and not wasting resources; one would have to imagine that that would apply for everything succeeding Persona 5. They built a whole new engine for the game, after all. Just like from P2 to P3, this is just another large leap where awesome looking stuff for the mainline RPG will be able to come into the foray instead of the recycling that's been going on for a while now. Those large leaps are necessary so that they can be applied to future projects.
Persona 4 Arena Ultimax version 2.00 Gameplay
If any of you guys are still into Ultimax, this is definitely worth checking out
If any of you guys are still into Ultimax, this is definitely worth checking out
My comments were regarding the longterm prospects of the company. I'm saying that if they make the game have all the bells and whistles and it's an outstanding achievement for Atlus, then that's fine; it just makes the overall game that much better if they can achieve that while hypothetically maintaining the meat of the game.
Obviously, there's going to be quite an increase in cost because it's a multiplat game that happens to be on the most powerful home console as well, and Atlus seemingly have high aspirations with this game. They obviously know that interest for this game is very high and it's the culmination of a brand that's continually been getting stronger for a long time now. Atlus also has a creative aspiration to do great things as a developer.
I look at another huge JRPG brand in Final Fantasy. Sakaguchi from the early days pushed for a fidelity that was state of the art, and this has been part of the series' identity even to this day. Final Fantasy XV right now (disregarding everything from pre-2012) likely has an extremely high budget and a lot of it is likely dedicated to the graphical fidelity of the game. A lot of the public interest in the game is likely tied to how impressive the game looks, and rightfully so, as I said it's been part of the series identity almost since near conception. It's also in a situation where it simply cannot fail and needs to recoup development costs and then some.
I'm just wondering if Persona 5 needs to have a big of a leap in budget to deliver great visuals. I think the series has built an identity where people don't really go into Persona expecting something that looks amazing, and that's fine. This is actually very healthy in my opinion. Pokémon has made an extremely successful living off of this. They can sustain success with low cost like they have with their past titles. I just think that having the commitment to making a graphically impressive game is unhealthy and builds bad expectation for future entries.
I'm not arguing against making great looking games. I would obviously prefer a game that looks better and doesn't sacrifice anything in content. It's the risk of high(er) budget games (not just Persona) that I'm worried about.
Ah, I get you. Well, obviously, I wouldn't be for a situation where Atlus' decisions concerning P5 would backfire on them, and I'm also not advocating for P5 to break the bank on graphics, but I also don't think that a game looking fantastic has to necessarily rely on the amount of money a developer has put into it. Obviously, we're not privy to detailed development processes and budgets, but that's where games like Catherine or Guilty Gear Xrd come in. I think the latter looks significantly better than using sprites, but that seems to rely on different technical models rather than amounts of money, going from interviews. Catherine is one of the best looking games I can think of, but that was also mostly reliant on art style and direction rather than pure tech.
I think that's where the discussion essentially diverged from: artistic differences. For portraits vs. non-portraits, I don't think that's necessarily attached to a specific budgeting bullet point, but rather more relevant to artistic choice, or "which would look better or fit in more." Another game that comes to mind is Ace Attorney: Dual Destinies. That game diverged from the sprites of its predecessors to go with 3D models (akin to Xrd), however that game looks gorgeous and that artistic choice enabled more flexibility during scenes. Sometimes, changing artistic styles like that for one that might look better might even be less resource intensive. Portraits, for example, might actually require more time to create if they were to be combined with higher quality models, so omitting the former and focusing on the latter might even be better from a development standpoint.
Man, I forgot how good Catherine's scenes were.
I actually think that P5's might be worse than that.
Xenoflare
Member
Um... how much of Catherine have you played? The animation cutscenes are pretty much evenly peppered into the games, especially the endings.
Keeping my expectations low.
As long as the in-game character models can match up to their portrait counterparts/Catherine, that would have kind of satisfy me.
E.g: though Naoto looks fine here, it always give me nightmares to stare into those soulless eyes of hers whenever I have to approach her character model for a social link.
As long as the in-game character models can match up to their portrait counterparts/Catherine, that would have kind of satisfy me.
E.g: though Naoto looks fine here, it always give me nightmares to stare into those soulless eyes of hers whenever I have to approach her character model for a social link.
- Status