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Persona Community Thread |OT7| P5 is nyaow. (Mark all PQ and P4U spoilers!)
- Thread starter Dantis
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Also hope it'd be unnamed, and imagining it would be too. Then again, that whole idea of this one being different from the others still bugs me since we have no earthly idea in what way...
I mean, to be honest, now that the P4 MC has a "name" in a lot of things, it doesn't exactly change my thoughts on him as a character. In a way, the types of choices you're given to answer things has done a lot to convey what they're kind of like anyway. Just no more of that "only 6 character" crap Persona Q pulled.... :\
I mean, to be honest, now that the P4 MC has a "name" in a lot of things, it doesn't exactly change my thoughts on him as a character. In a way, the types of choices you're given to answer things has done a lot to convey what they're kind of like anyway. Just no more of that "only 6 character" crap Persona Q pulled.... :\
A Dead Diehard
Member
Watch the 6 character limit stay, then the spinoffs come and the name's too long to be used in the proper game.
But it's alright, cause it's trolling.
GamingBird
Member
p3 and p4 protags are both new comers to town
could it be possible that p5 protag is ALSO a new comer to town? that trailer could be just a normal day or first day to school via metro since its in the city.
i love silent protag options. it makes roleplaying games much more immersive for me personally and I'm sure others like it too. YOU pretty much define who YOU are, how YOU respond, what YOUR personality is like.
pffff animes, they are just marketing tools
---
anyone here bothered at all by the fact that YOU KNOW this upcoming version ps3/ps4 of persona 5 will be just another vanilla persona game? as in you KNOW there will be enhanced versions down the road.
=/ this irks me a little, because i know that this isn't a complete story, nor is the cast a complete cast of characters, nor the story a coherent story
it bothers me slightly
But didn't the SMTIV protagonist receive a default name (
Totally agree with you. The Persona protagonists are special, despite being blank slates. Kaneko (for Tatsuya) & Soejima put a ton of work into designing them as audience surrogates, but also making sure that they're special in their own right. And that's precisely why Atlus has managed to make use out of them now, even today. It's like... they exist as audience surrogates that can be molded for the player, but there's a distinct underlying aspect to them as well.
- For the P3 protagonist, Soejima strived to design a shy/reserved individual with a hidden element of coolness.
- For P4 the protagonist, Soejima strived to do the opposite of the previous protagonist. Wild, cool, and masculine are keywords here. The P4's protagonist decision to unbutton his jacket shirt just screams confidence.
A Dead Diehard
Member
No coincidence. SMT4's protag was Flynn, bro.
But your point still stands.
Xenoflare
Member
p3 and p4 protags are both new comers to town
could it be possible that p5 protag is ALSO a new comer to town? that trailer could be just a normal day or first day to school via metro since its in the city.
i love silent protag options. it makes roleplaying games much more immersive for me personally and I'm sure others like it too. YOU pretty much define who YOU are, how YOU respond, what YOUR personality is like.
pffff animes, they are just marketing tools
---
anyone here bothered at all by the fact that YOU KNOW this upcoming version ps3/ps4 of persona 5 will be just another vanilla persona game? as in you KNOW there will be enhanced versions down the road.
=/ this irks me a little, because i know that this isn't a complete story, nor is the cast a complete cast of characters, nor the story a coherent story
it bothers me slightly
I disagree with the silent protagonist being immersive, since the "character" of the MC is pretty much preassigned when his design is finished, not to mention that if there are any spin-offs, he's going to get a name and a personality. It's not immersive at all, all of the in game choices are easily pulled off with a non-silent protagonist. It works fine, but I am not a fan of it. I feel like I've repeated this quite often here.
Example: I can be a total ass to everyone in the persona games yet everyone is still going to treat me like their BFF, that's not how it supposed to be.
It's pretty safe to assume that there are going to be an enhanced port of P5 down the road, and I'm okay with that, but it's completely reasonable to feel ripped off for buying Vanilla.
Speaking of transfer students, it's a common troupe in animes that are used quite often (understatement), so I'm completely okay if the p5 protag is a local.
Edit: Seeing other people's post here also reminds me, Tatsuya, Maya and Aigis are all pre-established characters, the flashback sequence in P2EP is really awkward since all Maya does is ... and Tatsuya suddenly talks, and having Aigis as the protagonist for The Answer did not ruin anything for me at all.
Green Mamba
Member
Names do come with some baggage that a nameless protagonist does not--namely I think it identifies them as a distinct character shaped by the player, instead of a player surrogate proper. It takes away some of the player's agency, even if it's seemingly minor, something I think Persona should avoid. It's not "canon name's" journey, Persona is supposed to be your journey, what you make of it is up to you. P4 Golden leaving out the name "Yu Narukami" entirely speaks to what I think the developer's intentions are.
I dunno, I kinda liked Tatsuya more when he had a name and a voice than when he didn't. But I guess that could just be that it was clear from the moment P2 began that Tatsuya wasn't going to be how I wanted him to be. The game had a pretty clear idea from square one about how he really was.
Not for me, it isn't. I don't give a crap about my journey. Like I said, I was absolutely fine with Tatsuya, Maya and Aigis. A pre-defined personality doesn't equate to lack of player agency, and I really wouldn't care if the protagonist was fully voiced, with their own personality (like in Catherine).
If it was supposed to be our journey, it would be a Telltale game or Mass Effect, not a game with established arcs and events. Again, Hashino was talking about struggling with the protagonist's own emotional development. He's not just an empty shell to act as a player insert, and I've felt that way about the others, too.
Xenoflare
Member
Word
Green Mamba
Member
If you need a name thought up for you I'd be happy to come up with one.
But in all seriousness, you and I have a very different outlook on what Persona currently is and what it's supposed to mean to the player, and I do think my view is closer to what the developer intention is. Not an exact fit, you are right, they do bleed a little personality into the protagonists' designs, but I do think the number one intention of the protagonists are player surrogate, and a lack of a name plays into that. I think it's telling that the Japanese names for The Journey and The Answer in P3FES are "Episode Yourself" and "Episode Aigis."
You can feel that this is the wrong way to go about things, but I am betting P5 ends up releasing with no name for the hero and you'll have to come up with something, so it will end up being your own journey in some small way.
GamingBird
Member
i agree with mamba, i also enjoy the nameless protags of smt iv, desu and eo, though i wouldn't like anyone else to come up with a name other than myself
i think atlus stands for nameless protags.
kratoscar2008 will agree with me as he was on the old atlus usa forums but he's not on gaf, there were numerous interesting discussions over there before the forums closed around this very issue - some quite heated
I'm not saying it's the wrong way to do things and I'm not saying they're going to give a name to the hero, because that's not how the series has operated. I didn't say any of that.
The P3MC and P4MC did indeed act partially as player surrogates, as that's what they were meant for. Hashino has implied the same for the P5MC, so he most likely will not have a preset name. What I did say is that, despite this, the stories in Persona games aren't mine, but those of the protagonists I control. Because of several details in P3 and P4, the protagonists are not completely blank slates, regardless of having a name or not. The P3MC's past is at the core of Persona 3's whole story. The P4MC is depicted as a friendly, benevolent character who people become attached to no matter how you want to play him as or how the player truly is.
The same goes for P2:IS. For P2:EP. For P3: The Answer. The only games in the series where I could say there truly was a "blank slate", player surrogate character was P1 and, from what I've seen so far on the P3 side, PQ. The rest have the attitude of the main character and their history significantly inform events and interactions in the story.
Edit: It's pretty superficial if defining a character's name is all it takes for it to be your own journey.
Yu definitely has a personality on the P4 side. But that is just Yu in general, P3MC doesn't really have noticeable personality even when he talks.
GamingBird
Member
i totally understand what you mean, made me rethink this a bit
the persona mcs give you more scope to ease YOURSELF into the world of persona. renaming the mc, choosing dialogue options, and the choices you make throughout the game gives you a pretty good illusion that somehow YOU ARE in that game world
it just gives players who think like this an easier way to ease themselves into RPing the MC
Green Mamba
Member
Alright, I get you, but if you draw the line between blank slate and anything character defining, I don't know if you could consider any game character truly a blank slate, not even your self made D&D character, as the fictional world the character lives in defines them. A blank slate requires some setting of some sort, so I feel you weigh the P3+4 heroes too heavily on their vaguely defined characteristics. The P3 hero's backstory in particular has heavy ramifications for the plot but factors essentially nil into the P3 hero's characterization (of which I would argue there is none outside of character design).
Names are important, that's why we give things names. Of course, I wouldn't consider it to be the number one defining thing, but I absolutely do think it's a part of it. I would argue the opposite point as well--if you do that well reading in a character into a player surrogate then you shouldn't need a name given to you. We're merely discussing which is better in this situation, yes? So I wouldn't make a statement on its superficiality, it's beside the point.
Hm, I suppose we might be talking about subtly different things, then. I'm not saying the P3/P4 characters are their own with pre-defined personalities and everything, because they're not. If they were, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. It's clear they're meant to be player inserts, but what I'm saying it's not in a way in which the avatar is completely associated with the player, as the avatar is defined by the world they inhabit and their context, as you state with the D&D example. If I were to say what I expect from the P5 character, it would be about that level of individuality akin to the P3 and P4 main characters, or perhaps a bit more based on interviews. The P5MC will likely still act, like the previous main characters, as a way for the player to interact with the world as they would themselves, but still with strict limitations put in place to determine how the character can act, again just like the previous main characters.
Name or no name, it makes absolutely no difference to me. I think I'd prefer a defined name more because then the characters wouldn't have to use empty terms to refer to the protagonist like "leader", "senpai", "partner" or whatever. I really don't care, though.
CrimsonFist
Member
I'm tired so sorry if this comes across a bit incoherently, but my thoughts after reading the other posts on this subject.
Persona is almost at a middle ground between something like Mass Effect, with no fixed protagonist, and something like Catherine, where Vincent is very clearly defined.
One thing that bugged me when playing Soul Hackers was that the protagonist was a complete non-entity, he might as well have not been there and Nemissa could have been the protagonist. Giving the protag some sort of charecter is essential in order for other characters to have believable and interesting interactions with him. It would be silly if I perceive or play the protagonist in a way other than the way the devs intended, but the rest of the cast act as if he's someone else. His personality can also tie into the games themes, his animations, his design ect. it just makes for a more interesting protagonist overall.
Name or no name, this is going to happen regardless, because there will be an option to rename the protagonist, that's pretty much guaranteed.
Persona is almost at a middle ground between something like Mass Effect, with no fixed protagonist, and something like Catherine, where Vincent is very clearly defined.
One thing that bugged me when playing Soul Hackers was that the protagonist was a complete non-entity, he might as well have not been there and Nemissa could have been the protagonist. Giving the protag some sort of charecter is essential in order for other characters to have believable and interesting interactions with him. It would be silly if I perceive or play the protagonist in a way other than the way the devs intended, but the rest of the cast act as if he's someone else. His personality can also tie into the games themes, his animations, his design ect. it just makes for a more interesting protagonist overall.
Name or no name, this is going to happen regardless, because there will be an option to rename the protagonist, that's pretty much guaranteed.
This is exactly it, and Soul Hackers is a good comparison. I like that game, but if one plays it and then compares it to Persona 3 or Persona 4, they'll quickly realize the difference in presence and appeal character interactions have between the two games based on how the main, "blank slate" protagonist is executed. Simply put, P3 and P4 wouldn't have the appeal they do if the main character was as empty a shell as Soul Hackers hero.
That's exactly what I said:
Even in Tatsuya's case, the option of renaming him was there. What I was addressing was the point of a defined name (which was what started this discussion), implying not being able to change it.
Spoiler for PQ's fourth dungeon boss:
I kind of don't want to play this game anymore after just barely "defeating" the boss only for it to use Endure and now it's back to half health and I don't have the resources to finish the fight. I feel like my time was unfairly wasted after a 49 turn battle.
Cannon_Fodder
Member
I had a similar problem against a different boss, and got pretty annoyed for a bit.
It ended up working out for the best though, because that setback caused me to rethink my whole strategy. What I came up with after that was WAY more efficient, and ended up being a fantastic tactic for the rest of the game. Sorry if this ramble is annoying after you vented, but I thought our circumstances were similar enough. Let's positive thinking in a bad situation and all that, haha.
DryEyeRelief
Member
Yeah, I really like Metis' design. Perhaps even more than Aigis.
I don't find your post annoying. Even immediately after I started the fight I identified a few things that I should have done differently in terms of accessories and Personas, but I decided to stick it out to see what would happen. I think the fight would be way easier now, but I'm just not interested in playing anymore. Maybe I'll feel differently after sleeping, but right now I'm completely lacking in motivation.
#firstworldproblems
Cannon_Fodder
Member
Ah, yeah, I definitely see what you're saying. I started enjoying games a lot more when I slept on it rather than keep trying the same section over and over again.
I hope you thoroughly enjoy ripping that boss a new one next time!
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
SEGA's next All-Star Racing/Dengeki Bunko Fighting Climax.
Lollipop Dave
Member
If Dengeki ever done a cart racer I would be all over it.
Drive my lovely Kirino, drive!
Got to love EO. I had a similar thing on the very LAST BOSS OF THE GAME. DPS was good, but it needed to be "bursty" on that boss. Unfortunately my burst dps relied heavily on buffing, and hey the boss has an ability that completely removed EVERYTHING.
No biggie though, just had to retire most of my first party and level them up again(from like 30 to 60 or so). Curb stomped the boss the second time I saw it with the new party, but still took like 10 hours. Thankfully, no persona makeup in this game would require such great lengths to fix things.
Dragon1893
Member
p3 and p4 protags are both new comers to town
could it be possible that p5 protag is ALSO a new comer to town? that trailer could be just a normal day or first day to school via metro since its in the city.
i love silent protag options. it makes roleplaying games much more immersive for me personally and I'm sure others like it too. YOU pretty much define who YOU are, how YOU respond, what YOUR personality is like.
pffff animes, they are just marketing tools
---
anyone here bothered at all by the fact that YOU KNOW this upcoming version ps3/ps4 of persona 5 will be just another vanilla persona game? as in you KNOW there will be enhanced versions down the road.
=/ this irks me a little, because i know that this isn't a complete story, nor is the cast a complete cast of characters, nor the story a coherent story
it bothers me slightly
Though you might be right about the cast getting bigger in a hypothetical expanded version, there's absolutely no reason to claim that the story wont be coherent or even complete. What the hell makes you even say that? Did you feel vanilla P3 and P4 weren't coherent or complete when you finished them?
As for the silent protagonist, I think that despite that fact and even taking into account the dialogue options, they still have a well enough defined personality, which is conveyed through their demeanour and actions they take throughout the game. When I think of Yu or Makoto I think of characters that are clearly defined, not just blank avatars. It becomes easier for the player to step into their shoes and the dialogue options give it some flexibility but overall they are characters with a defined personality.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
The original P4Arena is region-locked, Ultimax is not.
Thanks for that. Are they multilingual? Persona games are translated beautifully and I vastly prefer to play them in English.
(Arena is just one yen used on Amazon.co.jp and Ultimax is around Y1750.)
Reanimatoin
Member
I could be wrong, but if I'm remembering properly, they're dual audio but only one language for text.
The first Arena (which is region locked) has both English and Japanese text and audio I believe. The Japanese version of Ultimax has English audio, but no English text. The English version of Ultimax only has English. Neither version of Ultimax is region locked.
Also Dunan, Ultimax includes the original Arena story mode as an optional paid download. If you go that route, it effectively makes buying the first game pointless.
Ooh; I'd been hoping for multilingual everything. (Wasn't that the justification for the region lock? That the different regions' games were "identical"?) I speak and read Japanese, but prefer English audio, and was really, really impressed with the text translations of P3 and P4, so if the English text is anywhere near that good, then that's what I want to play.
I just started a second playthrough of P4 on the Vita, so I might just put these sequels out of my mind for a while and then pick them up next time I'm in the US and jonesing for some more Persona.
(Edit: Sophia, missed your post. So if I buy P4 Ultimax Suplex Hold, I can pay for the contents of the first Mayonaka Arena digitally? Would that be cheaper than the sub-Y1000 price of a disk? And would that require a Japanese PSN account? Mine is based in the US.)
Yeah, if you buy Ultimax, you can buy the story mode of the first Arena for it. You would probably need a Japanese PSN account if you were playing the Japanese version of Ultimax, yes. I don't know what the price is on the JP PSN store, but on the US store it's $10 for the story mode.
Seeing as you have a Japanese PS3, you're probably better off buying the first Arena if you can get it insanely cheap.
Well put.
It's especially unfortunate because Soul Hackers actually does make an attempt at giving your protagonist a presence... at first. The protagonist uses his super hacking skills to
hack into Paradigm X, after all
atlusprime
Atlus PR
Technically, the US version of Ultimax is sort of dual-audio, and by that I mean that the option for Japanese only applies to battle voices, with English used for everything else. If I were to guess, that probably has much to do with why they didn't bother region-locking this one unlike the fully dual-audio first P4A. But, seeing as I prefer and am more used to the English voices for Persona anyway, this makes little difference to me.
I'd pay a lot for this...
i curious to what P5 looks like.
CrimsonFist
Member
Ganzlinger
Member
Regarding that discussion about the protagonists names and if they have own personalities, I agree with Flux.
Mobile Suit Gooch
Grundle: The Awakening
This might be too early to ask, but after the Japanese launch, how long should it take for P5 to come to NA/EU?
Might have ask this before too.
Tough to tell, but Atlus USA's releases seem to have gotten faster over the past couple years. Can't be more than 6 months, IMO, and wouldn't be surprised if it was earlier than that.
EU? Sorry.
....touche.
I think they'd probably take inspiration from whatever more fantastic area ends up being in the game.
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