These kind of action scenes are actually the kind of thing I'd be interested in seeing less of.
I'm probably in the minority there though, I imagine, and I'm expecting P5 to have more, if anything.
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Persona Community Thread |OT8| Coming Winter 2014
- Thread starter Dantis
- Start date
These kind of action scenes are actually the kind of thing I'd be interested in seeing less of.
I'm probably in the minority there though, I imagine, and I'm expecting P5 to have more, if anything.
Funyarinpa
Member
That was GREAT
I sort of agree. Persona is a lot better in its low key moments.
It's definitely better.
I mean, it's no secret that I was hoping that Persona 5 would be more down to Earth like Catherine or whatever, but even so, the action scenes are so far away from what I enjoy about the series.
I feel like the game shines (in terms of event scenes) in the interpersonal moments, not the weird lore or the 'super cool action scenes'.
Ludger Kresnik
Member
Flashy battles aren't my favourite thing ever, but the scene in question just... hits all my right spots. It and the MC's awakening embody that trippy weirdness I loved about P3's anime scenes and kinda missed in the otherwise much better movies.
Yeah, P5 doesn't look down to earth at all. Now, we haven't seen much of the interpersonal moments at all, but everything just looks flashier in general. I think I would be put off by it, but the aesthetic is right up my alley so I'm really down for something new in this direction.
That said, we have seen some glimpses of that kind of chill, down to earth style that really appeals to people through Persona.
They could just be marketing the flashy stuff up front because it's, well, flashier. It's a little harder to market the quieter, more personal moments. I think they'll be there though.
That said, we have seen some glimpses of that kind of chill, down to earth style that really appeals to people through Persona.
They could just be marketing the flashy stuff up front because it's, well, flashier. It's a little harder to market the quieter, more personal moments. I think they'll be there though.
Funyarinpa
Member
Rewatch the last moment of PV03.
If Ann screaming "WE'LL STEAL ALL THAT THERE IS TO YOU!" as a beaten up P5MC grins into the camera doesn't send chills down your spine, I don't know what to tell you.
I am all for flash and flamboyance in Persona. Crashing a burning, huge blimp into the ground while people are panicking everywhere was one of the more memorable sequences for me in the series.
From what they've shown thus far of Persona 5, the sequences hinting at a larger scale situation compared to previous games like this one are among my favorites. I have no particular affinity towards down-to-earth moments compared to flashy ones though, of course, I wouldn't want the whole thing to be lavish in that way.
From what they've shown thus far of Persona 5, the sequences hinting at a larger scale situation compared to previous games like this one are among my favorites. I have no particular affinity towards down-to-earth moments compared to flashy ones though, of course, I wouldn't want the whole thing to be lavish in that way.
This is exactly what I dislike, haha.
The beaten up part made me wince. So cheese.
I absolutely agree. I don't like it.
A part of me is still worried I might end up disliking the game from a personal standpoint.
Even despite this, I think it's cool that P-Studio are making the game that they want to make, even if it's against my preferences.
I'm a big fan of balance myself. I love the down-to-earth moments in Persona 3, but I also loved all the crazy stuff that happens in Persona 2, including the one you mentioned. Looks like Persona 5 might hit a nice sweet spot if what we've seen in the trailers is any indication.
Mobile Suit Gooch
Grundle: The Awakening
One thing I'll be interested to see: Based on my own experience, Catherine is much more well-known than Persona, even after all the spinoff games. I meet people fairly regularly who are at least familiar with Catherine, whilst I've only met two people who had known of Persona before I've shown it to them.
I've always put this down to the more grounded nature of it (and possibly the fact that I only really interact with people aged 20 and upwards, I guess), and I'll be interested to see how people take to the frankly bonkers style of Persona 5. I've shown the trailer to a reasonable number of people, and most of them have said it looks terrible, haha.
Does anyone have any idea how Catherine sold in the west?
I've always put this down to the more grounded nature of it (and possibly the fact that I only really interact with people aged 20 and upwards, I guess), and I'll be interested to see how people take to the frankly bonkers style of Persona 5. I've shown the trailer to a reasonable number of people, and most of them have said it looks terrible, haha.
Does anyone have any idea how Catherine sold in the west?
CrimsonFist
Member
When it launched, it was Atlus USA's biggest selling title ever: http://uk.ign.com/articles/2011/08/04/catherine-sales-set-atlus-record
A Dead Diehard
Member
What am I supposed to get from that?
That FeMC is a Skrull?
Honestly, I feel the whole 'secret life' thing is getting kind of tedious.
Actually, it's the scenes with the cops that puts me a little more on Dantis' side. The Protagonists have a much bigger impact on the world in this game, their exploits far more obvious to the outside world. I enjoyed the whole "secret life" aspect of 3 and 4. Of course, no one knows that you're the phantom thief, but there's definitely that impact the character has on the outside world that does kind of worry me a bit.
There's something in the scale of a story that makes you worry it will lose part of it's soul if it gets too big. That's why I get where Dantis is coming from. It's sometimes a baseless fear though, because large scale can be done well.
And yet, that's totally what I want to see and what I want to see Persona 5 explore more of. I want Persona 5 to be more of a superhero/vigilante analog and not a "secret society" one that P3 and P4 have already done.
Theodoricos
Member
I agree with Dantis. Those interpersonal moments are the reason I became a fan of the series in the first place. It's precisely them that made Persona 3 & 4 a different animal than your usual JRPG - something more intimate, with a more narrow scope, than the standard world-saving plot. On that note, I'd love to see another game like Catherine in the future.
However, even if Persona 5 is a lot more bombastic, I imagine I'd still enjoy it because it'll retain some of those elements. Just not necessarily as much as I did 3 and 4.
However, even if Persona 5 is a lot more bombastic, I imagine I'd still enjoy it because it'll retain some of those elements. Just not necessarily as much as I did 3 and 4.
My concern is that it will focus too much on that. Hashino has said a lot of things about how he wants to make you feel emotion, but as the stakes ramp up and the scale heightens, it becomes harder and harder to tell a personal story.
When Persona 4 ended, I was genuinely sad. It was like, the end of a journey. It was an incredible feeling that I'm not sure any other game will match.
But right off, with this little information out there, I can already tell you that I don't care about Persona 5's protagonist. At all. His whole persona (lolololol) is about him secretly being edgy and cool and it just makes him seem like a lame jerk. The other characters might be tremendous, but seeing things I definitely don't like puts a seed in my mind that makes me go "Eeeeh".
When I watch the trailers, even when they've been out for so long, I see so many things that look cool, and so many parts that just look really bad to me. I don't think I've ever been so conflicted about something.
Exactly. And P5 looks to be on a definitely larger scale. I don't care about saving the millions, or 'fighting the man' or whatever. But hearing the last wish of a dying boy who is trying to write a children's novel is pretty interesting to me.
I like slick and stylish thief capers, like Ocean's 11, but this is a mile away from that. The closest thing I can think of to it is probably Lupin the 3rd. I guess, to be fair, there's nothing else like it in videogames.
I don't really like superheroes myself, but I do like capers and thieves. That's why I said the aesthetic really does appeal to me this time around, so it's enough for me to get over the push to a really wild angle.
It's funny to hear that people don't like the hidden society thing. That's really, really, really what appealed to me about P3 and P4 in general. I like the idea of just having those totally separate worlds and knowing a secret that no one else does. I mean, that's definitely present in P5, it's just that your actions have more of an immediate impact on the world.
We'll see how they pull it off, it'll be interesting. There's a lot of potential pitfalls with the whole thing though.
I really like Lupin, although the original Lupin more than his anime counterpart. Castle of Cagliostro is pretty great though, I strongly recommend it to anyone.
I definitely don't look at this game like an Oceans 11 style caper, but more of a modernized Count of Monte Cristo with its flamboyant, romantic themes.
On this note, I think you might be a little surprised. From everything they've talked about, the "capers" seem a little more selfish and self-contained than the overarching plots of P3 and P4. Like, someone they know has a stalker and they go and steal his heart, etc. If I had to guess, I'd say that after enough of these situations, it's like a reverse P4 where the cops have to figure out why all these random crimes are happening and the people of tokyo start to get invested in the idea of a vigilante. It really doesn't come off as "we have to solve this one major problem!" like P4 and P3 did. No doubt it will end up being a much larger situation in the end like those games, but I do get the feeling these "episodes" will be more standalone than previous games.
It's funny to hear that people don't like the hidden society thing. That's really, really, really what appealed to me about P3 and P4 in general. I like the idea of just having those totally separate worlds and knowing a secret that no one else does. I mean, that's definitely present in P5, it's just that your actions have more of an immediate impact on the world.
We'll see how they pull it off, it'll be interesting. There's a lot of potential pitfalls with the whole thing though.
I really like Lupin, although the original Lupin more than his anime counterpart. Castle of Cagliostro is pretty great though, I strongly recommend it to anyone.
I definitely don't look at this game like an Oceans 11 style caper, but more of a modernized Count of Monte Cristo with its flamboyant, romantic themes.
On this note, I think you might be a little surprised. From everything they've talked about, the "capers" seem a little more selfish and self-contained than the overarching plots of P3 and P4. Like, someone they know has a stalker and they go and steal his heart, etc. If I had to guess, I'd say that after enough of these situations, it's like a reverse P4 where the cops have to figure out why all these random crimes are happening and the people of tokyo start to get invested in the idea of a vigilante. It really doesn't come off as "we have to solve this one major problem!" like P4 and P3 did. No doubt it will end up being a much larger situation in the end like those games, but I do get the feeling these "episodes" will be more standalone than previous games.
Cannon_Fodder
Member
I'm not sure that's a fair comparison. You're comparing the trailers that focus on the main plot of P5 with a totally optional side story in P3.
Even then, P3 and P4 both (spoilers I guess?)
ending up being about saving the world. So if they had stories about both saving the millions and a dying boy, why can't P5?
From what I can tell so far, that's just A Dead Diehard. I love that concept in P3 and P4, but I don't need P5 to be that. Another aspect of P5 standing on its own with its own identity, and I have no qualms with it being a potentially more grandiose story.
I mean, in P4 that came in at like, the 80th hour, and whilst it was a running thing throughout P3, it was very much at the back of the picture until, what, the final gameplay section?
Now if it had been an Ocean's style thing, I wouldn't be complaining. Less edgy and weird, more SWAG.
EDIT: I just want to point out whilst we're having this conversation that I think the social sim stuff in P5 looks mostly amazing.
More than anything though, I do really appreciate what this game has shown itself to be compared to what I feel it could have been after P4 and its spinoffs. I think everyone was pretty delightfully surprised with the reveal, and while not everything hit, it definitely didn't go in the poppy, bright, and cheerful direction I think a lot of people were expecting. Props for them for trying to do something that looks pretty different, for better or worse.
I agree, but this is one part I really want to try to avoid as more and more info starts trickling out. It's gonna be hard.
I agree, but this is one part I really want to try to avoid as more and more info starts trickling out. It's gonna be hard.
Makes sense to referring how a thief might win over people today since Lupin got its origins in the 70s even if it's still popular.
As for the plot, even Persona 3 was technically a 'save the world' plot from the beginning since the team was aware not stopping the spread of apathy syndrome and not saving the victims would lead at least to the ruining of their country.
Persona 1 technically does the opposite where the world's technically saved in both paths, and the true ending is going the step further and saving Maki as well.
Theodoricos
Member
As for the "secret society" thing, I'm not as opposed to it returning in Persona 5 because it gives an easy excuse for the game to have a more down to earth segment (the social links, the day sections). However, if they come up with a new alternative for the Persona games to retain that balance between JRPG combat and the post-P3 visual novel elements, I'd be all for it. I just can't think of a different way for them to implement that off the top of my head.
Catherine did that in an interesting way by having its core gameplay sections
, so it's possible.
Catherine did that in an interesting way by having its core gameplay sections
be nightmares
P5 will be largely a secret society for much of the game. I imagine it's not until later that the cops start really getting involved as their targets become more high profile and more impactful in that world.
Before that happens, I doubt anyone could guess that you're sneaking into an otherworldly nightmare dimension called Palace.\
Basically, Deathnote when it was just Light vs a couple of detectives was pretty great, but once it went off the rails and he became this godly figure, I lost interest immediately.
Before that happens, I doubt anyone could guess that you're sneaking into an otherworldly nightmare dimension called Palace.\
Basically, Deathnote when it was just Light vs a couple of detectives was pretty great, but once it went off the rails and he became this godly figure, I lost interest immediately.
Now you know about 5 of the main characters.
Inquisitive_Ghost
Member
I'm with FluxWaveZ, here. "Secret societies" even with "superpowers" (eg Personas) feel very different to me than "superhero/vigilante" stories. The latter is more individualistic in approach.
I really like contrast between that sort of thing and "low-key" character moments like what the series does well; I would love it if P5 could nail that sort of balance.
I empathize with concern that it may become "too large" though; that can be difficult to do well.
Reanimatoin
Member
If people are thinking that P5 wont have extremely good, personal stories for the characters because of what you've seen in the trailers, then I'm sorry, but you're mental.
The flashy action stuff goes in the trailers because they're trailers! If the trailers were nothing more than S.link (or its P5 equivalent) cutscenes, then the general public would think the game would be boring as hell! (of course, people who know the series know better)
I have nothing but the utmost confidence that the game will get me deeply invested in the characters, because its fucking Persona!
The flashy action stuff goes in the trailers because they're trailers! If the trailers were nothing more than S.link (or its P5 equivalent) cutscenes, then the general public would think the game would be boring as hell! (of course, people who know the series know better)
I have nothing but the utmost confidence that the game will get me deeply invested in the characters, because its fucking Persona!
Ganzlinger
Member
P5 needs more girls ASAP
We've got 3 so far.
Mobile Suit Gooch
Grundle: The Awakening
The twins don't count.
A Dead Diehard
Member
We've got the doctor, at least?
CrimsonFist
Member
A Dead Diehard
Member
Ah, nevermind then. She seems cool enough, just from her crazy lab.
Ganzlinger
Member
I'm actually a little surprised you're not feeling the Protagonist in this one, Dantis. I think he's probably the best part of the whole thing so far, at least for me.
All of the smirking and smugness is kind of necessary with the idea of a master thief. It has to look like he's one step ahead of his enemies and I think they pull that off really well while still making him a blank-state avatar. His daily look has to be inconspicuous and his design compliments this. I think Soejima did an excellent job designing a character that could look brazen enough to pull of heists but also but look unassuming enough to go around having social conversations with everyone.
All three of Soejima's protagonists have perfectly fit their role in terms of design, if you ask me. P5's might be a bit jarring at first as it's unusual to see such an emotive protagonist after P3 and 4, but I think it really, really works in the game's favor.
All of the smirking and smugness is kind of necessary with the idea of a master thief. It has to look like he's one step ahead of his enemies and I think they pull that off really well while still making him a blank-state avatar. His daily look has to be inconspicuous and his design compliments this. I think Soejima did an excellent job designing a character that could look brazen enough to pull of heists but also but look unassuming enough to go around having social conversations with everyone.
All three of Soejima's protagonists have perfectly fit their role in terms of design, if you ask me. P5's might be a bit jarring at first as it's unusual to see such an emotive protagonist after P3 and 4, but I think it really, really works in the game's favor.
All I remember was everyone going gaga over the reveal of the protagonist wearing glasses and looking like a typical nerd and all the Harry Potter jokes. That's why PV01's reveal during the concert was so satisfying, cuz they took our expectations and smashed it into pieces.
"The protagonists seemingly docile nature is a profound ruse."
Man that was quite the moment. XD
Mobile Suit Gooch
Grundle: The Awakening
I'm not feeling the protagonist either. (A much different reason than Dantis.)
A bit off-topic compared to what others were talking about, but I had a quick look around Google and had a question.
Is there any further information on how Persona 5's story is supposed to play out? Last I heard was that it was supposed to be
Is there any further information on how Persona 5's story is supposed to play out? Last I heard was that it was supposed to be
an omnibus, with no central villain like Persona 4. That leads be to believe that it'll be more like a serial TV show with a new villain each "episode" rather than one grand plot.
My guess is that's mostly the format until you get all your party members and you've done enough to attract attention from the main villain later on.
Funyarinpa
Member
Likely. There's also the fact that
we know someone kidnaps P5MC to get information about stealing one's heart. That sounds like very main villain-y to me.
edit:
I'm not worried about Persona 5.
(possible vague P3 and P4 spoilers!) (PV03 spoilers)
I think the reason trailers were combat-focused so far is because the dungeons are the primary complaint with Persona 4 and certainly one of the biggest complaints for P3. They wanted to show how they've changed core concepts like dungeons and stat grinding (baseball, boxing, etc). As for the story, I really like the setup they have going on here although I do have my doubts about how they'll manage to tie a vigilante story into the heavily personal and low-scale nature of the previous Persona games.
However, I'm sure that they will manage to make the characters feel close to you and explore their personalities well. The latter half of PV 03 feels like a 'beginning of the end', like the first stages of a crumbling of the society and widespread chaos, but I think it might just be a more amplified version of the personal story of the cast reflecting on the world as a whole in P3 (numbers of The Lost decreasing after every full moon battle). I think I would prefer a low-key narrative as well, compared to a superhero or vigilante story, but as far as design goes I think the P5MC is amazing. I'm still unsure on what to expect in terms of protagonist having a personality. Will they give him some character, or will he be another self-insert only MC? Silent or not? Will it make the game more or less immersive? I don't know.
I hope they improve the sense of camaraderie, though. It was amazing in P4G, but especially the first half of P3 was a bit tough to enjoy since it felt like SEES was just one of the many things the cast did, as opposed to P4's investigation team hitting it off from the get go. I'm not saying that P3 should have done that exactly the way P4 did, it worked in P3's themes and setting. I just enjoyed that feeling in P4. I hope they change up the thematic relevance of the cast (compared to P3's "dormmates bond over time" and P4's "villagers who hit it right off"), but I'd enjoy them feeling intimate rather than somewhat cold towards each other like in the beginning of P3.
However, I'm sure that they will manage to make the characters feel close to you and explore their personalities well. The latter half of PV 03 feels like a 'beginning of the end', like the first stages of a crumbling of the society and widespread chaos, but I think it might just be a more amplified version of the personal story of the cast reflecting on the world as a whole in P3 (numbers of The Lost decreasing after every full moon battle). I think I would prefer a low-key narrative as well, compared to a superhero or vigilante story, but as far as design goes I think the P5MC is amazing. I'm still unsure on what to expect in terms of protagonist having a personality. Will they give him some character, or will he be another self-insert only MC? Silent or not? Will it make the game more or less immersive? I don't know.
I hope they improve the sense of camaraderie, though. It was amazing in P4G, but especially the first half of P3 was a bit tough to enjoy since it felt like SEES was just one of the many things the cast did, as opposed to P4's investigation team hitting it off from the get go. I'm not saying that P3 should have done that exactly the way P4 did, it worked in P3's themes and setting. I just enjoyed that feeling in P4. I hope they change up the thematic relevance of the cast (compared to P3's "dormmates bond over time" and P4's "villagers who hit it right off"), but I'd enjoy them feeling intimate rather than somewhat cold towards each other like in the beginning of P3.
A Dead Diehard
Member
Well,
that's the tragedy of 3/5 over and done with for this year. Here's to a brighter future.