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[PK Gaming]

I disagree with this. One of the fundamental points of P4's story is accepting oneself and working through one's personal issues and social issues to get to that point, but that is in no means reflected through character development across the entirety of the game. It happens in milestones, directly linked to how they were before they confront their Shadows and after that moment.

Yukiko is initially withdrawn and standoffish, but she doesn't slowly start to become more spirited and outgoing. Literally during the first hours into the game after you save her, she then shows who she truly is with the laughing fit and from then on she doesn't become any different. It's not a slow progression; it's a very abrupt and distinct transition. And, as some are saying on this page, that wasn't really the point with P4's cast. A side-effect from the cast intentionally being designed to be close friends from the get-go means that there was extremely little actual internal conflict between the characters, which meant that they had to remain pretty much static among themselves to convey their bond of friendship (which is another fundamental point of P4, far more than it was in P3).

Aside from the fact that I disagree that only select moments in P3's character arcs are notable (I found that pretty much every single member of SEES progresses in a very noticeable way with changes throughout the entire story, except for Koromaru and maybe Fuuka), there's the fact that there isn't such a black-and-white transition as "pre-Shadow personality" and "post-Shadow personality" as there is in P4. Even with Akihiko; there is gradual development in how the characters behave and interact with each other throughout the whole experience.

This isn't only a P3 vs P4 thing, either. P2:IS and P2:EP characters have character arcs in a similar vein. P4 is the only mainline title in the series where the main characters do not have that, next to Persona 1. Again, it was likely an intentional design, but it's also part of what makes them my least favorite group (far ahead of P1's, though) in the series.

To be clear, the first part of my post was in response to the "P4 characters don't have arcs" part of Ekai's post. That said...

"Slowly change" was a poor choice of words on my part, but at the same time, I don't think Yukiko immediately stops changing after her shadow confrontation. She starts laughing in front of people who aren't Chie, but she's still avoidant towards people she's not familiar to with. You can see this in action when Yosuke asks her for her number, and when she withdraws inward when she talks to Mitsuo. You can't even social link with her until the opportunity presents itself. Her demeanor after she immediately joins is still that of a fairly mild individual, which is different from when she

Spoiler

delivers a brutal smackdown to Adachi near the end of the game.

or when she becomes more prone to taking cracks at people.

And I definitely disagree with the notion that the P4 characters are immediately close friends. Everything I said about Yukiko applies to Kanji. Even after his shadow confrontation, he's still prickly (he straight up tells Rise to "shut up" after she tries to be friendly with him), but he softens up considerably towards the latter half of Persona 4. Teddie doesn't fully begin to integrate with the group until he

Spoiler

he becomes human.

Still, i'll concede that these aren't things that happen gradually, but eventually. I recognize that the P4 characters are mostly the same after their shadow confrontations. My main argument is that the characters didn't need to change significantly after their shadow confrontation, and they weren't worse off because of it. P4 as a whole operates in a completely different manner from P2-3, since the characters are mostly living ordinary lives. Ordinary high school characters don't fundamentally change as people over a year. The reason the P2-3 cast change dramatically is due to large volume of life altering events that they have to experience in a short period of time.

Comparatively, the P1 & P4 characters mostly stay the same because outside of their run in with the supernatural, their own lives aren't changed significantly.

EDIT: What Setsu posted definitely applies.

 

[Ganzlinger]

If I were to rank the cast individually (not in terms of how much I like them, but based on their strength of character) i'd go:

Persona 4

Top tier: Yosuke (...come at me)
High tier: Rise, Kanji, Teddie
Mid tier: Chie, Yukiko
Low tier: Naoto

Persona 3

Top tier: Junpei, Aigis, Yukari
High tier: Ken
Mid tier: Mitsuru, Akihiko
Low tier: Koromaru, Shinji
Fuuka tier: Fuuka

In regards to its characters, P3 has higher highs, but lower lows. P4 is more consistent.

What do you mean by strength of character? Do you mean they are well written characters or that they have dignity?

 

[Mediking]

Persona 3 has nearly better everything...

Persona 4 is still great... but I literally predicted the villain in that game the SECOND I saw that character.

 

[cj_iwakura]

Persona 3 has nearly better everything...

Persona 4 is still great... but I literally predicted the villain in that game the SECOND I saw that character.

I was lucky, I never saw it coming, but I pieced it together right when the cast did.

 

[Lunar15]

Yeah, for some reason I never saw it coming. I think I was spoiled on it right before the part where they figure it out though.

 

[MSMrRound]

Also what's wrong with Naoto, exactly? I'm honestly confused.

I like Naoto, but maybe Naoto joined the party a tad too late, so the character wasn't able to get fleshed out properly in sense of plot and stuff. Naoto is there basically just to tell you "alright, you probably know all of these stuff but I'm just gonna repeat them at you and sum it all up" aka Danganronpa's Kyoko Kirigiri, just that it was done in a poorer sense.

 

[Aadrian1234]

It's hard for me to really explain how i see the characters in a detailed and specific manner, but i had a natural pull with P3 because my current situation in life was very bleak at the time. P4 didn't have that pull, and i already felt like P3 had a character i could relate to so much that none of the P4 characters resonated with me. It's actually weird seeing how much people resonate with P4 when P3 was that experience for me. It's obviously easier to see it now, but it's such an odd case on the exact reason people praise P4 is what i felt in P3. Which means i actually enjoyed Arena and Ultimax, solely cause i got to see more P3 character development, and Labrys, who is a really awesome character.

 

[A Dead Diehard]

I like Naoto, but maybe Naoto joined the party a tad too late, so the character wasn't able to get fleshed out properly in sense of plot and stuff. Naoto is there basically just to tell you "alright, you probably know all of these stuff but I'm just gonna repeat them at you and sum it all up" aka Danganronpa's Kyoko Kirigiri, just that it was done in a poorer sense.

Yeah, I can understand that.

I guess Late Character Syndrome just doesn't affect me too badly (

Spoiler

see Mass Effect 2 for how great such a character was there

).

 

[Ludger Kresnik]

Persona 4 is still great... but I literally predicted the villain in that game the SECOND I saw that character.

Was it that obvious? I remember my first thoughts didn't go much further than

Spoiler

oh JYB is in this doing his JYB voice.

 

[Aters]

It's hard for me to really explain how i see the characters in a detailed and specific manner, but i had a natural pull with P3 because my current situation in life was very bleak at the time. P4 didn't have that pull, and i already felt like P3 had a character i could relate to so much that none of the P4 characters resonated with me. It's actually weird seeing how much people resonate with P4 when P3 was that experience for me. It's obviously easier to see it now, but it's such an odd case on the exact reason people praise P4 is what i felt in P3. Which means i actually enjoyed Arena and Ultimax, solely cause i got to see more P3 character development, and Labrys, who is a really awesome character.

Yeah, no one in the P4 cast carries the same weight as Aigis, and Elizabeth is so much better than Margaret. P4 also has character like Naoto, a teenage girl detective. That's a little too anime-ish for me.

 

[Setsu00]

Yeah, no one in the P4 cast carries the same weight as Aigis, and Elizabeth is so much better than Margaret. P4 also has character like Naoto, a teenage girl detective. That's a little too anime-ish for me.

Aigis is a great character, but you can't deny that her set-up is just as anime as Naoto if not more. She's a freaking robot girl with a verbal tic that somehow manages to go to school.

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

Aigis is robo anime cliche. Labrys was better.

 

[Darkness Unleashed]

So. I have finally delved into the world of Persona, started Persona 4 Golden a few days ago and I'm enjoying it quite a bit, despite my experience with JRPGs being next to zero.

Combat is fun, but Shadow Y

Spoiler

ukiko

kinda kicked my butt yesterday. Could I get some advice? My party is at level 14-13, should I grind for a bit?

 

[Funyarinpa]

Anime or not, Aigis said and did some things that really stuck with me. (

Spoiler

"You don't need to save the world to find meaning in life. Sometimes all you need is something simple, like someone to take care of. "

)

Amazing character. (I prefer P4 and its cast overall but comparing her to Naoto? LMAO)

 

[Funyarinpa]

So. I have finally delved into the world of Persona, started Persona 4 Golden a few days ago and I'm enjoying it quite a bit, despite my experience with JRPGs being next to zero.

Combat is fun, but Shadow Y

Spoiler

ukiko

kinda kicked my butt yesterday. Could I get some advice? My party is at level 14-13, should I grind for a bit?

Abuse the hell out of buffs, debuffs (especially Rakunda), and the boss' weakness.

Strap in, you're in for one hell of a ride.

 

[Ganzlinger]

Aigis is robo anime cliche. Labrys was better.

I agree, the thing that I dislike about Aigis is that she is 'obsessed' with the MC. If she wasn't pushing it so hard it would be better.

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

Anime or not, Aigis said and did some things that really stuck with me. (

Spoiler

"You don't need to save the world to find meaning in life. Sometimes all you need is something simple, like someone to take care of. "

)

Amazing character. (I prefer P4 and its cast overall but comparing her to Naoto? LMAO)

the comparison on anime cliches is pretty valid. Aigis is a bigger anime cliche, and the more bizarre one

I agree, the thing that I dislike about Aigis is that she is 'obsessed' with the MC. If she wasn't pushing it so hard it would be better.

yea, thats a part I very much don't like. Don't get me wrong though, I do like Aigis, I just like Labrys more

 

[PK Gaming]

What do you mean by strength of character? Do you mean they are well written characters or that they have dignity?

The former.

I'll swap Yukiko with Rise and Aki with Shinji.

Think you're giving Ken a bit too much credit, but whatever. :/

Also what's wrong with Naoto, exactly? I'm honestly confused.

Just going to quote a post I made a while ago

Naoto is the worst character in the Investigation Team.

She's an obnoxious, patronizing exposition tool that kills the "natural" flow of the Investigation Team - A bunch of regular high school kids who are in way over their head trying to solve a murder mystery. It's an enticing aspect of P4 that's immediately destroyed when Naoto shows up. Suddenly, group conversations devolve into her delineating shit we already know. And then there's her character arc. It isn't bad, but the conceit it is pretty much lost on 90% of the people who play Persona 4, and it's executed poorly. But worst of all, is how she turns into one of the most shameless and sexualized characters after that. We get scenes that harp on her big boobs (does she need that?) and the like. It's obnoxious. She's obnoxious.

 

[Ganzlinger]

The former.

then I agree with you

 

[Lunar15]

Man, that EOV stuff really took the wind out of my sails. I guess news could still come out this month, it's just that it feels way less likely than before.

 

[CrimsonFist]

Something about there being a regular Stalker Club confirmed for this month makes me think that yeah, it's going to be April now.

 

[A Dead Diehard]

I agree, the thing that I dislike about Aigis is that she is 'obsessed' with the MC. If she wasn't pushing it so hard it would be better.

Glad someone gets it.

Just going to quote a post I made a while ago

Oh, that!

 

[Cannon_Fodder]

Something about there being a regular Stalker Club confirmed for this month makes me think that yeah, it's going to be April now.

Isn't the April Stalker Club episode about P3? The guest is Akihiko's VA.

I'm starting to worry it could be May, but we'll just have to see.

 

[properpropaganda]

Spoiler

Ya'll don't know what ya'll are talking about. Naoto-kun is best girl of all time. OF ALL TIME!

So I started watching P3M1 and during the montage at the beginning why is Ken in a Gekkoukan jacket? Did he ever wear one in the game?

I also love how the mp3 player shows the song as Burn My Dread.

 

[Lunar15]

Something about there being a regular Stalker Club confirmed for this month makes me think that yeah, it's going to be April now.

They announced one for April too, featuring Akihiko's VA.

I'm definitely starting to shift to my "Announcement in May - Release in September" theory.

 

[Ganzlinger]

Ken is a student from Gekkoukan Elementary school iirc. I believe he wears that jacket in the game along with the orange one.

 

[Sophia]

Ken is a student from Gekkoukan Elementary school iirc. I believe he wears that jacket in the game along with the orange one.

Yup. Close examination reveals that Ken is wearing the elementary school uniform. He just has an orange jacket/sweater over the dress shirt and under the Gekkoukan one.

 

[properpropaganda]

Ken is a student from Gekkoukan Elementary school iirc. I believe he wears that jacket in the game along with the orange one.

Yup. Close examination reveals that Ken is wearing the elementary school uniform. He just has an orange jacket/sweater over the dress shirt and under the Gekkoukan one.

Ah must've missed that fact, probably because I only used him for a hand full of battles. Did they mention that in game? I remember his orange hoodie, though?

So I passed dungeon 2 in PQ, is this the extent of character annoyance or does it get worse (

Spoiler

Chie's meat meat meat, Akihiko's protein protein protein, Teddie and his always trying to get some, Marie and her omgyourestupidihateyouforreadingmypathoseventhoughyoujusttotallygavemeacompliment

)? Also, is she worse in this game than in Golden or just as bad.

 

[DNAbro]

Atlus needs to show Persona 5 already. I have been predicting March but man just hurry up.

Zero Time Dilemma is quickly taking over for my most hyped game this year.

 

[Ludger Kresnik]

So I passed dungeon 2 in PQ, is this the extent of character annoyance or does it get worse (

Spoiler

Chie's meat meat meat, Akihiko's protein protein protein, Teddie and his always trying to get some, Marie and her omgyourestupidihateyouforreadingmypathoseventhoughyoujusttotallygavemeacompliment

)? Also, is she worse in this game than in Golden or just as bad.

They don't get better, but the story will start focusing on Rei and Zen more soon.

I liked Marie more in PQ than in Golden. Probably because she had nothing to do and was thus free to be just an edgy teenager.

 

[A Dead Diehard]

Ah must've missed that fact, probably because I only used him for a hand full of battles. Did they mention that in game? I remember his orange hoodie, though?

So I passed dungeon 2 in PQ, is this the extent of character annoyance or does it get worse (

Spoiler

Chie's meat meat meat, Akihiko's protein protein protein, Teddie and his always trying to get some, Marie and her omgyourestupidihateyouforreadingmypathoseventhoughyoujusttotallygavemeacompliment

)? Also, is she worse in this game than in Golden or just as bad.

Welcome to the spinoffs! We've got tired traits!

Spoiler

There's a sidequest involving Marie later, which I really enjoyed.

 

[Olengie]

Was it that obvious? I remember my first thoughts didn't go much further than

Spoiler

oh JYB is in this doing his JYB voice.

I was like. "lol what?" and moved on. Haha.

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

Marie is always good

 

[Green Mamba]

Marie is always good

Incorrect.

 

[Lunar15]

While they will inevitably show more, all I need is a release date.

 

[Funyarinpa]

Marie is always good

Although I don't fully agree I must admit that you're closer to the truth than many others ITT.

 

[properpropaganda]

They don't get better, but the story will start focusing on Rei and Zen more soon.

I liked Marie more in PQ than in Golden. Probably because she had nothing to do and was thus free to be just an edgy teenager.

They don't get better but they don't get worse, right? Granted, nothing can be as bad as Chie and her meat. Even Akky and his protein isn't that bad.

As far as Marie, I think that might be why I don't really care much for her in this game because she just seems....there. Granted, I haven't gotten to play Golden yet further than Dojima telling you to go walk around the town so I can't really compare her to that game.

Also, she's not THAT bad of a character.

How many dungeons are there anyway?

 

[MudoSkills]

I was legit mad that there were Marie poems in PQ, especially as I did the P3 side on my first run.

 

[Green Mamba]

Also, she's not THAT bad of a character.

Also incorrect.

Anyways, concerning P4 Golden (late game spoilers)

Spoiler

I just got to the final day, and playing through it again it feels to me that they intended to let you keep playing past Valentine's Day, but ran out of time or something. Valentine's Day doesn't really feel like a "final day" in the way it's presented, and the final test plus the posted results are actually completely worthless for any in game reward. Valentine's Day is when they post the test results and it still gives you affection points for all of your classmates but they're useless at that point. And the scene the morning after where it skips from isn't voiced at all and seems sort of thrown together. I dunno, just my thoughts.

I would have been able to Max every Social Link this time around if a) I actually remembered to fish earlier on--by the time I got the final Fox S.Link it was basically too late to get either Guardian, and b) had I left someone other than a club member for last, as I only needed a couple more ranks for Sun but forgot about the test and you can't S.Link with club members the week before, so I just had a week where I only had time to kill and nothing else to do, lol. Should have left Naoki for last I think. Oh well, I got close.

 

[Funyarinpa]

Also incorrect.

Anyways, concerning P4 Golden (late game spoilers)

Spoiler

I just got to the final day, and playing through it again it feels to me that they intended to let you keep playing past Valentine's Day, but ran out of time or something. Valentine's Day doesn't really feel like a "final day" in the way it's presented, and the final test plus the posted results are actually completely worthless for any in game reward. Valentine's Day is when they post the test results and it still gives you affection points for all of your classmates but they're useless at that point. And the scene the morning after where it skips from isn't voiced at all and seems sort of thrown together. I dunno, just my thoughts.

I would have been able to Max every Social Link this time around if a) I actually remembered to fish earlier on--by the time I got the final Fox S.Link it was basically too late to get either Guardian, and b) had I left someone other than a club member for last, as I only needed a couple more ranks for Sun but forgot about the test and you can't S.Link with club members the week before, so I just had a week where I only had time to kill and nothing else to do, lol. Should have left Naoki for last I think. Oh well, I got close.

Spoiler

Is that skip part where Corner Of Memories plays? I love that part, because it felt like the journey of the game was flashing before my eyes. Making memories, friendship, adventures... Shit caught me off guard, got a couple tears out of me, and was part of the reason the true ending utterly annihilated me right after.

 

[Green Mamba]

Spoiler

Yeah, that part. The zoom out followed by the montage that ends with the close up of the photo is actually one of the strongest moments Golden added I think but the scene that happens right before it is odd.

 

[Shun]

Now y'all hating on Kana Hanazawa's Marie? I heard it all now.

It is hella entertaining hearing her embarrassment and over exaggerated performance.

She's just confused, insecure, and wants to know more about the world. Like Elizabeth but very lost.

 

[Ludger Kresnik]

I've only heard HanaKana as Marie in P4GA and that show was so overwhelmingly shit I didn't even notice it was her.

 

[properpropaganda]

I was legit mad that there were Marie poems in PQ, especially as I did the P3 side on my first run.

That was my favorite part of the

Spoiler

Group Date Cafe. Akihiko having to recite Marie's poem.

 

[Aters]

Aigis is a great character, but you can't deny that her set-up is just as anime as Naoto if not more. She's a freaking robot girl with a verbal tic that somehow manages to go to school.

It's hard to explain. Aigis' setup is anime for sure, but the way she is portrayed feels fresh. Naoto, on the other hand, feels like I've heard every line of her somewhere else before. Maybe it's just personal preference,a bunch of teenagers playing detective game makes me unable to take the story too seriously.

That being said, P4 still has Rise the idol to deal with, and the young-female-hotel-manager. And P4G added in Marie, the mysterious girl with sharp mouth who lost her memory. That's good enough for any harem anime.

Well, I guess you can argue Mitsuru is just as anime. Sometimes even I don't understand why P4 doesn't click to me the same way P3 does.

Honestly at this point can't we all just agree that all the Persona characters are the best/worst of all time? Since it seems people's opinions of characters kind of fling back and forth every 20 or so pages.

Except Nozomi though. He's the worst.

He has one of the best written social links in P3 and P4. It's one of the few attempts the game actually tries to go deep and explore the negative side of human (P4 is better on this I'd say). He's not a likable character, and that makes him particularly stand out. I need more annoying jealous shameless pieces of trash in my video games.

 

[QuadOpto]

Honestly at this point can't we all just agree that all the Persona characters are the best/worst of all time? Since it seems people's opinions of characters kind of fling back and forth every 20 or so pages.

Except Nozomi though. He's the worst.

 

[Green Mamba]

 

[Lunar15]

As long as no one likes Kenji, I think I'm fine.

 

[KenjiGlove]

Fuuka is underrated.

 

[Zolo]

As long as no one likes Kenji, I think I'm fine.

Fuuka is underrated.

" KenjiGlove "
Hmm.......