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[PK Gaming]

Re: [redacted]'s involvement in the story of Ultimax

Spoiler

It was so bad it basically twisted around and became good. Adachi's portrayal in Ultimax borders on hero worship. The story starts off by contriving a situation where a corrupt (and also ugly) detective abuses him, and then has Dojima beat up said corrupt detective. Oh by the way, Dojima's expression when visiting Adachi borders on bliss. The opening never focuses on his crime, nor does it give attention to his victims. It's basically all about Adachi and how inconvenienced he is. But it's not so bad, at least things are quiet now!

His involvement in the main narrative basically amounts to "asshole that was good all along." He basically saves everyone, constantly. Yu is in love with him and vice versa. Adachi actually says something along the lines of "my heart races whenever I see him" and there's a bunch of hilarious lines between the 2.

"Adachi-san..."

His entire story plays out like something out of a Fujoshi's fanfiction. Best part of Ultimax, bar none.

 

[Setsu00]

Re: [redacted]'s involvement in the story of Ultimax

Spoiler

It was so bad it basically twisted around and became good. Adachi's portrayal in Ultimax borders on hero worship. The story starts off by contriving a situation where a corrupt (and also ugly) detective abuses him, and then has Dojima beat up said corrupt detective. Oh by the way, Dojima's expression when visiting Adachi borders on bliss. The opening never focuses on his crime, nor does it give attention to his victims. It's basically all about Adachi and how inconvenienced he is. But it's not so bad, at least things are quiet now!

His involvement in the main narrative basically amounts to "asshole that was good all along." He basically saves everyone, constantly. Yu is in love with him and vice versa. Adachi actually says something along the lines of "my heart races whenever I see him" and there's a bunch of hilarious lines between the 2.

"Adachi-san..."

His entire story plays out like something out of a Fujoshi's fanfiction. Best part of Ultimax, bar none.

Spoiler

Stop reminding me of that atrocity. However, it did have the interesting benefit that I started reading the Japanese criminal code, so it did amount to something.

 

[A Dead Diehard]

Spoiler

"Adachi-san..."

Spoiler

It sounds like saxophone music should follow. XD

 

[_Ryo_]

Real quick, which has more/better NG+ content P3FES or P4 vanilla. Recently looked at my P4 save, I haven't played either Persona game since Jan 1st 2015. Think is finally time to start NG+.

 

[Inquisitive_Ghost]

Real quick, which has more/better NG+ content P3FES or P4 vanilla. Recently looked at my P4 save, I haven't played either Persona game since Jan 1st 2015. Think is finally time to start NG+.

P3FES carries over basically everything including levels. I find carrying levels makes it super boring, but your mileage may vary.
P4 carries over cash, compendium, and personality stats (courage, etc).

 

[Dantis]

Re: [redacted]'s involvement in the story of Ultimax

Spoiler

It was so bad it basically twisted around and became good. Adachi's portrayal in Ultimax borders on hero worship. The story starts off by contriving a situation where a corrupt (and also ugly) detective abuses him, and then has Dojima beat up said corrupt detective. Oh by the way, Dojima's expression when visiting Adachi borders on bliss. The opening never focuses on his crime, nor does it give attention to his victims. It's basically all about Adachi and how inconvenienced he is. But it's not so bad, at least things are quiet now!

His involvement in the main narrative basically amounts to "asshole that was good all along." He basically saves everyone, constantly. Yu is in love with him and vice versa. Adachi actually says something along the lines of "my heart races whenever I see him" and there's a bunch of hilarious lines between the 2.

"Adachi-san..."

His entire story plays out like something out of a Fujoshi's fanfiction. Best part of Ultimax, bar none.

You're legit upsetting me PK.


This is why I fear for P5's writing.

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

I'm with pk, the entirety of that inclusion was the worst part of ultimax

 

[PK Gaming]

You're legit upsetting me PK.


This is why I fear for P5's writing.

Calm down man!

Ultimax was handled by the spinoff team. It had 5 writers (too many cooks) and Hashino didn't direct it.

I'm sure P5 will be fine.

 

[Sophia]

Calm down man!

Ultimax was handled by the spinoff team. It had 5 writers (too many cooks) and Hashino didn't direct it.

I'm sure P5 will be fine.

Real talk, but the five writers thing is instantly noticeable. It's why the quality of some parts of Ulimtax are really good, where others are really awful.

 

[Dragon1893]

You're legit upsetting me PK.


This is why I fear for P5's writing.

Oh come on.

 

[A Dead Diehard]

Real talk, but the five writers thing is instantly noticeable. It's why the quality of some parts of Ulimtax are really good, where others are really awful.

What else did those five writers work on, anyway?

 

[_Ryo_]

P3FES carries over basically everything including levels. I find carrying levels makes it super boring, but your mileage may vary.
P4 carries over cash, compendium, and personality stats (courage, etc).

Which one has more extra things to do?

 

[Inquisitive_Ghost]

Which one has more extra things to do?

I think the only extra thing either of them have to do is a superboss fight each.

 

[Lunar15]

Nothing about the spinoffs could make me worried about the writing in 5. As PK said, Hashino didn't even really touch them all that much and they written by teams of people who didn't and really couldn't evolve or change characters all that much.

It's also important to note that, in these spinoffs, you're taking all these existing characters and wrapping them around a gameplay concept, like fighting. It's really backwards from how Hashino and the Persona team do business with mainline games. They're so directly honed in on the theme first, and then tie in all the gameplay elements around that. The spinoffs are already built on contriveance, and that's why they never bothered me. It's dumb, it's stupid. There's really no reason to get upset with how badly they were written because the whole thing was dumb for the start. Could they have pulled it off better? Oh, absolutely. But it just wasn't the priority there. Add in the handcuffs of not wanting to change or evolve a character too much from what they're known for fear of not having that reflected in future spinoffs and cameos, and then, well, you get what we got.

I am beyond confident that P-Team will carry the central themes pretty well all the way through the entire game, even at the sake of subtlety. It's pretty much the main thing they excel at, and I'm not worried about it at all. There's plenty of reasons to be worried about P5's writing actually, but those come more from looking back at P3 and P4 in retrospect than they do from looking at the spinoffs.

 

[_Ryo_]

Wait so the new Dengeki 615 just recaps the news from 614? Wtf is even the point? If 616 recaps 615's recap of 614 imma be annoyed.

 

[Jintor]

Wait so the new Dengeki 615 just recaps the news from 614? Wtf is even the point? If 616 recaps 615's recap of 614 imma be annoyed.

sell more mags duh

 

[jello44]

Spoiler

It sounds like saxophone music should follow. XD

[Careless Whisper playing in the distance]

 

[A Dead Diehard]

[Careless Whisper playing in the distance]

"You can be my wingman anytime, [REDACTED]."

"No. You can be mine."

*bobs head suggestively*

 

[daevious]

Wait so the new Dengeki 615 just recaps the news from 614? Wtf is even the point? If 616 recaps 615's recap of 614 imma be annoyed.

I thought more info before E3 sounded too good to be true.

 

[Zolo]

"Last time on issue 614!"

 

[_Ryo_]

I thought more info before E3 sounded too good to be true.

Apparently next month's issue 616 released on June 9th will have "The latest Persona 5 news"

Which could mean either it is the exact same information as the last Famitsu and the last two PlayStation Dengeki magazines, or new information. I mean, they'd have to be really fucking dense to present the same exact information consecutively per the last 3 issues.

I expect it to be like this

Famitsu May 2016
Dengeki 614 is same as Famitsu
Dengeki 615 Recaps 614 just in case people didnt pick up the last issue or Famitsu for whatever reason
Dengeki 616 is goes more in depth over the games systems, leveling up, cooperation, mini games, status, part time jobs etc.

I just cannot see the next issue being the same exact information. It has to be something new.

 

[daevious]

Apparently next month's issue 616 released on June 9th will have "The latest Persona 5 news"

Which could mean either it is the exact same information as the last Famitsu and the last two PlayStation Dengeki magazines, or new information. I mean, they'd have to be really fucking dense to present the same exact information consecutively per the last 3 issues.

I expect it to be like this

Famitsu May 2016
Dengeki 614 is same as Famitsu
Dengeki 615 Recaps 614 just in case people didnt pick up the last issue or Famitsu for whatever reason
Dengeki 616 is goes more in depth over the games systems, leveling up, cooperation, mini games, status, part time jobs etc.

I just cannot see the next issue being the same exact information. It has to be something new.

I'm willing to agree with you that something is going to be revealed in Dengeki, but that begs the question of what they'll have left to show at E3.

Admittedly, we can safely assume that Atlus has plenty of things left to show, considering how tight-lipped with P5 information they've been over the years, so I guess my main concern is if any of the information in Dengeki and E3 could potentially overlap one another.

 

[MSMrRound]

that begs the question of what they'll have left to show at E3.

A release date for the English version is my minimum expectation.

 

[_Ryo_]

I'm willing to agree with you that something is going to be revealed in Dengeki, but that begs the question of what they'll have left to show at E3.

Admittedly, we can safely assume that Atlus has plenty of things left to show, considering how tight-lipped with P5 information they've been over the years, so I guess my main concern is if any of the information in Dengeki and E3 could potentially overlap one another.

I dont think itll matter if they overlap each other. One will be in video form and the other text and static imagery which are two very different forms of presentation. For example, if they show screenshots of a dungeon in Dengeki a video of the same still has a lot of substance as it will show animation, music, atmosphere, visual fx, audio fx, etc that a simple picture or text cannot convey.

Plus I absolutely expect an English dubbed trailer at E3 and that'll be hard to reproduce in magazine form unless they use one of them eink screens and a greeting card speaker but I highly doubt they're gonna do that.

Anyway, I'm just saying for the most part written and visual forms ar extremely different and it allows for the overlapping of information to not matter as much.

 

[Lunar15]

A release date for the English version is my minimum expectation.

Ding Ding Ding.

 

[Zolo]

A release date for the English version is my minimum expectation.

Winter 2016.

 

[Setsu00]

Did they ever formally reveal the S Link characters from P3 and P4 during their marketing cycles? If the cooperation system is indeed an upgraded S Link system (that's also based on the Tarot), they have a lot of characters to cover for P5.

 

[Sophia]

Did they ever formally reveal the S Link characters from P3 and P4 during their marketing cycles? If the cooperation system is indeed an upgraded S Link system (that's also based on the Tarot), they have a lot of characters to cover for P5.

I believe the initial Famitsu DVD trailers did show off a handful of the social link characters, although not in any significant context. Just that they had portraits and names.

For what it's worth, the Persona 5 trailers we've gotten so far roughly mirror the amount and type of content we saw in the Persona 3 and Persona 4 trailers.

 

[Holundrian]

Kind of bored and feeling like chatting Persona, so I guess to maybe get the ball rolling hoping that not everyone has already tired of this(since I assume everything has been discussed in this thread at one point) my question is what are all your hopes and dreams for the social link system?

For me weirdly I never imagined anything super grand but there's one thing that really irked me during my playthroughs that I hoped will be solved in some way.
Which is that systematically there's always a right answer in these links.

So my hope is that they'll maybe abolish that and maybe even steal from SMT and give each link a kind of law/chaos/neutral ending. So your answers kind of push certain tendencies for where each link story line could end up.

Of course preferably it wouldn't be a 1:1 of law/chaos/neutral but something more fitting.
Maybe something that goes along the lines of sins/virtues since that seems to be a theme in P5?

 

[A Dead Diehard]

I personally hope your actions in other links are acknowledged in other links. Even if it's limited to who you choose to or to not have sex with. (if you'll forgive my facetiousness)

Just more than progress in one link unlocking another.

I hope characters go through changes and development independent of their social links. The way more in depth character development was dependent on SLinks in P4, as opposed to P3, was something I didn't like. Members of the investigation team are sort of "as is" when they join the party if that makes any sense.

Maybe that's just a byproduct of each character's insecurities/faults being introduced and remedied in the dungeon before you get to know them but it's definitely noticeable.

Yeah, that's certainly a glaring fault in comparison to P3.

 

[Morning Star]

I hope characters go through changes and development independent of their social links. The way more in depth character development was dependent on SLinks in P4, as opposed to P3, was something I didn't like. Members of the investigation team are sort of "as is" when they join the party if that makes any sense.

Maybe that's just a byproduct of each character's insecurities/faults being introduced and remedied in the dungeon before you get to know them but it's definitely noticeable.

 

[Mediking]

I hope characters go through changes and development independent of their social links. The way more in depth character development was dependent on SLinks in P4, as opposed to P3, was something I didn't like. Members of the investigation team are sort of "as is" when they join the party if that makes any sense.

Maybe that's just a byproduct of each character's insecurities/faults being introduced and remedied in the dungeon before you get to know them but it's definitely noticeable.

Wait what do you mean? Junpei grew in Persona 3 and Yosuke did too in Persona 4. I'm not talking about social links either. Don't gotta see Mitsuru's social link to see her grow either.

 

[Eudaemonium]

Wait what do you mean? Junpei grew in Persona 3 and Yosuke did too in Persona 4. I'm not talking about social links either. Don't gotta see Mitsuru's social link to see her grow either.

Morning Star was talking specifically about P4 characters as opposed to P3 ones—P4 characters had far more of their development in social links than the P3 cast.

I can't really remember much of the P4 cast's evolutions outside their social links (not including the 'plot' links, like Teddie's).

 

[Morning Star]

Morning Star was talking specifically about P4 characters as opposed to P3 ones—P4 characters had far more of their development in social links than the P3 cast.

I can't really remember much of the P4 cast's evolutions outside their social links (not including the 'plot' links, like Teddie's).

Yup, there it is.

As for evolution outside of the social links there's um...

Wait what do you mean? Junpei grew in Persona 3 and Yosuke did too in Persona 4. I'm not talking about social links either. Don't gotta see Mitsuru's social link to see her grow either.

That is exactly what I mean. In P3 going through the motions of the social link is not necessary to experience most of the character development.

In P4 after each party member faced their ordeal,

Spoiler

confronting and accepting their shadows

, that was kind of it for them unless you took part in the social links. P4 SLink spoilers: Yukiko

Spoiler

for example, comes to terms with her position as being next in line to run her family's inn, That more or less echoes the things her shadow was saying when she was rescued. And outside of that her character doesn't appear to change as much aside from her laughing (opens up a bit more).

If the SLinks weren't as tightly connected to each character's

Spoiler

acceptance of their shadow self

it wouldn't be the case at all. After

Spoiler

confronting their shadows

it's kind of what you see is what you get. Yosuke maybe stands out because of a few things:

Spoiler

His awakening differed in procedure from the others, the climax of his social link has less to do with reaching a resolution regarding his shadow's spiel and it didn't exactly fit the mold the others seem to have.

In P3 things happen to characters outside of the SLinks that end up changing them in some way, and in the SLinks you get a deeper understanding of what makes them the person that they are. P3 Spoiler:

Spoiler

The death of Mitsuru's father and Ikustuki's betrayal put her in a different position than she was in prior to those events Later on Yukari's confrontation does more for her growth than what happens in her social link.

However, her SLink, entirely unrelated to the other thing, and we get even more of an understanding of Mitsuru. It's the same with the other characters.

Spoiler

Chidori for Junpei, Natsuki for Fuuka, Shinji for both Ken and Akihiko, and maybe the Ikutsuki betrayal or battle with Ryoji for Aigis as well. They all have someone or some event that causes an apparent change in them over the course of the game and their SLinks are mostly unrelated to that.

too spoilery or tl;dr: SLinks in P4 were neat little boxes to put character development in. I don't want that in P5.

 

[Jintor]

it's good and bad. as a reader it's good that characters do their own thing and have life developments without you having to do x or y in order to get them.

however, as a player, the world should revolve around ME AT ALL TIMES

AT ALLLLLLL TIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIMESSSS

for serious though I like that P3's characters develop on their own, but because you're not actually around, half of it feels like they just buggered off offscreen to evolve or whatever. Junpei in particular spends like 6 months dogging you (unless you're FemC) and then turns into an actual human being in the space of like two weeks.

 

[Squire]

Ideally they'd put some good work in everyone in both the main narrative and the S.Links (if they're in 5).

Be careful what you wish for though. As much as people want the former, where presumably everything intertwines, stories regularly suffer because they try to juggle a cast that's too large. Persona is pretty long and I think that helps everything to breathe, but I doubt it makes it all that much easier. S.Links let a character arc and have their spotlight to a satisfactory extent without really needing to consider stepping on everyone else' toes.

And really, I think if you're not engaging the S.Links you're not fully engaging the narrative. That sounds like a "you" problem, honestly. The delivery method is a creative choice on their part (that sets them apart from their contemporaries) and it's story all the same.

 

[A Dead Diehard]

for serious though I like that P3's characters develop on their own, but because you're not actually around, half of it feels like they just buggered off offscreen to evolve or whatever. Junpei in particular spends like 6 months dogging you (unless you're FemC) and then turns into an actual human being in the space of like two weeks.

Not to mention

Spoiler

Aigis' oh-so-smooth transition from "Initiating technical jargon" to "EMOTE.EXE D:"

That's always bothered me for whatever reason.

 

[Morning Star]

I'm not saying it doesn't achieve what it's trying to do in P4, because it does. But my problem with the character development in P4 was mostly that the social links were just about reaching a resolution related to their shadow selves. There wasn't much new about it if that makes any sense. It didn't feel like enough of a growth if they

Spoiler

accepted their shadow selves almost as soon as they enter the narrative

then we go through the motions. And you're right that may just be me.

 

[Jintor]

It is a problem though because one of the things about dumping development in the social links is that you don't get to see the cast really interact with *each other* quite as much. It's why I adored a few of the extras in Golden like you occasionally running into other cast members hanging out with one another (and not you) in the supermarket every once in a while, and you'd inevitably decide to leave them be.

Obviously they get a lot of time hanging out in the main story (and side stuff like the school festival or camp or whatever) but those, are, like... i dunno. different to just chillin'.

Probably my favourite skit of those is Kanji and Yukiko casually discussing hairstyle products.

 

[Aters]

too spoilery or tl;dr: SLinks in P4 were neat little boxes to put character development in. I don't want that in P5.

I agree with you. Outside S-links P4 characters are really bland after they joined the party, while P3's characters develop in a more traditional JRPG way. Although some s-links in P4 are well written, I think party members are special and they should not be treated like all other characters in the game.

I think P4 was a little rushed. They had to make all party members into S-links because they can't make more NPCs. It's also one month shorter if I remember correctly? I can understand how frustrated they must have been when they were making a PS2 game while the rest of the world had moved on to next-gen.

 

[daevious]

I think P4 was a little rushed. They had to make all party members into S-links because they can't make more NPCs. It's also one month shorter if I remember correctly? I can understand how frustrated they must have been when they were making a PS2 game while the rest of the world had moved on to next-gen.

This is the same company that had no issues porting Shin Megami Tensei 1 and 2 on the PS1 in 2002, nor did they have issue with releasing a sequel to Raidou on October 2008. Atlus has historically not given a shit about rushing to work on next-generation hardware and it's only with Persona 5 that we're actually seeing a major change in their thinking.

If anything, the time constraint would have been much worse, considering they had to make a game bigger than Persona 3 in half the time. It's a sign of Persona Team's talents that they made a sequel that manages to surpass an already well received game and manage to make literal gangbusters off of it half a decade later.

 

[Lollipop Dave]

A release date for the English version is my minimum expectation.

1 minute clip with NA release date announced.

While Europe will be ;_; and then of to the US sites to pre-order an import copy

 

[_Ryo_]

As far as S-Links go, as long as they are as good as or better than P3's and have some bearing on the actual end game, I will be happy.

Didnt they say they reworked the system to be more impactful which is why they decided to call it something else?

 

[Holundrian]

it's good and bad. as a reader it's good that characters do their own thing and have life developments without you having to do x or y in order to get them.

however, as a player, the world should revolve around ME AT ALL TIMES

AT ALLLLLLL TIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIMESSSS

for serious though I like that P3's characters develop on their own, but because you're not actually around, half of it feels like they just buggered off offscreen to evolve or whatever. Junpei in particular spends like 6 months dogging you (unless you're FemC) and then turns into an actual human being in the space of like two weeks.

Kind of disagree on this to some extent. I think you can successfully have things happen that are not chained to the protagonist I mean Bioware games are such big offenders of this that everything is so tied into your character that you feel like Jesus every game.
I don't agree on it needing to revolve around you at all times. Like Junpei and Chidori happened without the protagonist. You just have to show interesting stuff happen.

On the whole SLink thing, thinking about it I'm just more concerned with the mechanical implementation which does influence the content but I don't really worry about the content since they've kind of gained my trust on that.

 

[Eudaemonium]

Kind of disagree on this to some extent. I think you can successfully have things happen that are not chained to the protagonist I mean Bioware games are such big offenders of this that everything is so tied into your character that you feel like Jesus every game.

Well, in one you literally come back from the dead and have 12 disciples, so...

I don't agree on it needing to revolve around you at all times. Like Junpei and Chidori happened without the protagonist. You just have to show interesting stuff happen.

Its possible to have stuff happen with the Protagonist present without it revolving around them. I'm partially hoping that P5 might resolve this by having a more 'ensemble cast heist' feel to it, with all the characters bouncing off one another. How much development actually takes place in this as compared to the private Protagonist-NPC S.Link-style stuff is, of course, a fairly delicate balance. As a player, you need to be given a sense that your relationship with the character matters—else you could have just hung out with the old couple in the bookstore, or the Fox, or whatever—but at the same time you want to feel like the characters have their own lives that exist beyond the narrow Protagonist-centric sphere. Of all the recent Persona iterations I'd probably say that the P3P FeMC route does it best, but that's basically because it merged P4's more personal S.Links with the already-existing P3 structure, which had the bulk of the main cast's development happen outside of the S.Links.

 

[A Dead Diehard]

Kind of disagree on this to some extent. I think you can successfully have things happen that are not chained to the protagonist I mean Bioware games are such big offenders of this that everything is so tied into your character that you feel like Jesus every game.

Actually, Bioware did at least one thing not influenced by the protagonist I hope P5 does.
Unromanced companions hook up on their own.
Mass Effect 3, DA2, and Inquisition all did this (to varying degrees of 'twu wuv')

 

[Holundrian]

Actually, Bioware did at least one thing not influenced by the protagonist I hope P5 does.
Unromanced companions hook up on their own.
Mass Effect 3, DA2, and Inquisition all did this (to varying degrees of 'twu wuv')

That's cute if it fits.
That said it's also not enough. I want more personal agency for companions.

I think that's why I like Sten a lot and DA:O in general. That guy stayed himself even if you got along during the game.
You had more situations there where people would not compromise(wasn't perfect but a better direction than what Mass Effect was). I think to some extent DA:I as fem elven Inquisitor and Solas was also a nice step in that direction.

Lots of time Bioware just takes it too far with how much influence you really have as a protagonist over others. It's only at the start where you have to slime your way into the good graces of companions.

Doesn't mean that I want to have Bioware games be a drama mess of relationships.
I just want characters demand more respect from me, like so many of them are experts in their fields theoretically even surpassing me so why do they leave every decision to me....looking at you Mass Effect.

 

[Zolo]

Yeah. I would really like that more as well. I remember one of my favorite moments was if you talk about not wanting Ashley on your crew in ME1, Anderson will immediately tell you that it's his decision and not yours. I also really liked Sten for similar reasons.

 

[PK Gaming]

That's cute if it fits.
That said it's also not enough. I want more personal agency for companions.

I think that's why I like Sten a lot and DA:O in general. You had more situations there where people would not compromise(wasn't perfect but a better direction than what Mass Effect was). I think to some extent DA:I as fem elven Inquisitor and Solas was also a nice step in that direction.

Lots of time Bioware just takes it too far with how much influence you really have as a protagonist over others. It's only at the start where you have to slime your way into the good graces of companions.

Doesn't mean that I want to have Bioware games be a drama mess of relationships.
I just want characters demand more respect from me, like so many of them are experts in their fields theoretically even surpassing me so why do they leave every decision to me....looking at you Mass Effect.

DA:O is definitely a cut above most Bioware games in that regard. Your protagonist is hot shit™ , but the characters don't really worship you. It's pretty much impossible to make decisions that please everyone, and there are decisions that can legitimately make certain characters leave your party.

 

[Zolo]

For what it's worth, I think each Dragon Age game is better at it than the ME series. The ME series basically had the cast praising Shepard as the one true savior who is the only one who could save the galaxy.