Yeah, she's pretty awful in Golden, but they actually managed to make her into a decent character in the spinoffs. The lack of concern with making her IMPORTANT and the fun they have at her expense goes a long way in making her more likeable.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Persona Community Thread |OT8| Coming Winter 2014
- Thread starter Dantis
- Start date
Yeah, she's pretty awful in Golden, but they actually managed to make her into a decent character in the spinoffs. The lack of concern with making her IMPORTANT and the fun they have at her expense goes a long way in making her more likeable.
Mobile Suit Gooch
Grundle: The Awakening
I need to finish that show.
King Gilgamesh
Banned
I should warn you the least seasonal anime I watched was TTGL, with only a handful of series since.
Toradora's an 08 show and it's pretty gud
King Gilgamesh
Banned
It just doesn't seem interesting to me.
King Gilgamesh
Banned
The number of times where something good can be described this way can be counted on my left hand.
Things I needed so I could like Marie more in P4G
1. Make her a dang party member.
2. Don't make her S. Link include the party showing up in such a terrible and forced manner.
3. Remember that there are characters who aren't Marie.
4. Let Marie interact with characters who aren't MC in a position other than dominance.
5. For the love of God please do not do P4G the Animation's route.
King Gilgamesh
Banned
Ah, this is my second day on NeoGAF. And, uh, you guys don't have the best reputation when it comes to anime.
http://i.imgur.com/Lug8lSXh.jpg
nobody has a good reputation when it comes to anime
it's anime
srsly tho. Toradora is great and to dismiss it purely because it's based on a light novel is dumb butts.
A Dead Diehard
Member
King Gilgamesh
Banned
I haven't seen too many positive opinions of the former, and the latter certainly had good points.
It's not that I dislike Kill la Kill, I actually liked it a lot. But there is so, so much misinformation and ignorance in the NeoGAF reaction to the series. Same for pretty much every thread on the "Gaming Discussion" board.
NCR Redslayer
NeoGAF's Vegeta
You just gotta expect that people won't understand you because they think what you like is weird and thats ok.
pls. The true soul of NeoGAF anime resides in AnimeGAF in the OT Community. *adjusts monocle*
going to OT neogaf anime threads for opinions is casual tier
which is hilarious because self-selecting via neogaf is already a major filter in terms of 'casualness'
being serious though, if you want to get posters who think a lot about anime in terms of direction, characterisation, animation etc. and not just at a fanwank level, animeGAF has you covered. (As well as fanwank level, because sometimes you get excited about shows)
King Gilgamesh
Banned
I don't really like online anime communities, and I don't think AnimeGAF has what I want any more than /r/anime or Narutoforums do. Besides which, I feel like the discussion is starting to derail.
I'll check out AnimeGAF, but I don't trust any board that harbors positive opinions of
Gen Urobuchi
TVTropes
A Dead Diehard
Member
I can hardly blame you. The most personal anime community I could find still had some insufferable elements.
lol i don't even know where you're getting your impressions of animeGAF from. it's hardly monolithic in opinion. (Except that defend lolicon stuff too enthuastically and you'll get banned)
Trinity Soul is certainly interesting among the Persona series. It's actually got some of the better themes present in the series. Who doesn't want to experience Persona users vs Persona users done right? It's a damn shame the execution leaves a lot to be desired. I actually would not mind seeing a remake or reimagining of it in a sense.
As the resident linker of tropes in this thread, I'd just like to say that we at TVTropes take pride in potentially ruining your life.
Also, while it's not anime, have you watched Kamen Rider Gaim?
NCR Redslayer
NeoGAF's Vegeta
Don't bother trying to change animegaf if you don't like
moe
yuri pandering.
King Gilgamesh
Banned
Ah, and I may be wrong on this, but just a little while ago, weren't there serious allegations about the mod team being actual pedophiles? Seems a bit off to me.
Trinity Soul was really, really dumb, but it had some solid animation and demon designs. I just don't know why Personas were so transparent, and why the lore got all fucked.
That's not really my problem with TVT.As the resident linker of tropes in this thread, I'd just like to say that we at TVTropes take pride in potentially ruining your life.
I'm not much of a Toku fan, and I dislike the overwhelming majority of Urobuchi's work. Of course I haven't seen it.
uh, what
..................
OOOOKAY.
;Boys and girls, despite my attempt to try and turn it back on track with the Trinity Soul talk, I think we've hit the point in this conversation where we're prooobably best just moving on. Especially because we really do not want to go down the dark and scary tunnel of suggesting that an entire group of people might be pedophiles without any evidence.
Like I said, the execution was bad. But it did have a lot of potential. And of course, I'm really fond of Kanaru's story, for reasons that'll surprise nobody.
Trinity Soul was just... one of those things that was odd. Like it wasn't outright bad, but you kind of wish it had realized it's full potential.
AnimeGAF honestly strikes me as rather unsavory, but Urobochi is most likely the only author in anime writing genuine tragedies (as in the literary sense) and TVTropes is a phenomenal resource.
Are you joking with that stuff? I can't tell.
NCR Redslayer
NeoGAF's Vegeta
Yeah this conversation is over. Good night folks.
tvtropes has its good and bad points. it's a great resource for collated, vaguely sorted information about a series and the shit that goes on it in as well as an easy way to link together stuff that has done the same thing. but it's also a place where people will post theories and interpretations as if they're fact and back it up by classifying it under a trope.
it's also hell to escape, you start looking up metal gear solid and next thing you know you're reading about the scp foundation fanfic recommendations or some shit
it's also hell to escape, you start looking up metal gear solid and next thing you know you're reading about the scp foundation fanfic recommendations or some shit
Ah, see I've never gone that deep with it, so I haven't encountered anything like that yet. Though I think I'll know it if/when I see it since I'm probably not pulling the page for something there unless I've played/read/watched and put a considerable amount of thought into it myself already.
TheMrPliskin
Member
So! I'm thinking of going back to Eternal Punishment soon so that I can finish it before P5 releases but I was wondering, is there some sort of guide as to what Personas I should be fusing as I progress?
I don't especially enjoy any part of the fusion process and while I was able to basically skip it entirely in Innocent Sin I doubt that's an option here. Anything that cuts down the time spent on the fusion process would certainly go a long way to helping me get through EP in a timely fashion.
I don't especially enjoy any part of the fusion process and while I was able to basically skip it entirely in Innocent Sin I doubt that's an option here. Anything that cuts down the time spent on the fusion process would certainly go a long way to helping me get through EP in a timely fashion.
TheMrPliskin
Member
Wow that's exactly what I was thinking of, thanks!
That should help me actually finish it,
Aadrian1234
Banned
I like TVTropes because i have a hard time explaining things or understanding things that others
Some stuff i could never put into words before, and it helps when there's a page of examples and definitions for something that's not really explained but is generally and silently understood by the majority, especially when it's really hard for me to understand something without it being explained in a direct manner instead of just being something "universally understood" by most people.
Speaking of it being hard to explain things, i spent a whopping half hour on making this post >_<
Scrooge McDuck
Member
Mmm, Tenmaku Sakurako from Ai Kora, Sohryu Asuka Langley from Neon Genesis Evangelion, Souma Kyo from Fruits Basket,
Logan Echolls from Veronica Mars
To be honest, I don't think providing examples would do much? We disagreed on the reading of Marie's character from the get go, after all. Thing is "tsundere" is pretty much just a method to convey a character development. It's not enough to actually define a character (at least, if said character is well-written). There should ideally be a driving motivation/fear that explain why a character acts the way they do. The fear of rejection is one of the few things that would make "tsun" makes sense, and the need for acceptance is why there's a "dere".
NotDreamcast
Member
Oh man, the transition from Innocent Sin to Eternal Punishment.
My bad habits from IS came back to haunt me. I had to accept that negotiation was now essential. I had to embrace the Velvet Room that I mostly ignored in IS. And, I had to believe in the power of fusion spells more than ever. When the first few bosses I fought ended up in one-sided loses, I felt a voice inside me echo, "This is just the beginning."
"This isn't Innocent Sin." I weakly spoke. I knew I had to learn the game. I knew I had to get better. I had to start from square one.
I continued onward down my newfound path. Starting small with fusion spells like Blazing Hell, Ryuhei Tensho and Ice Blast. The amounts of tarot cards yielded to me from my negotiation attempts were meager, with 3-5 per battle. I knew the road ahead would be long, but I persevered. I took my cards to the Velvet Room and began to cast aside the starter Personas. "This isn't Innocent Sin." once again came across my mind. In that game, I held onto the starters for nearly the whole game. But not this time.
Even so, my efforts were often trounced. Random encounters were no problem, but I barely scraped by in most boss battles. Those fights really came down to the wire every single time. But the taste of a hard earned victory was sweet. I couldn't help but smirk every time I overcame a boss fight. I knew that I was dropping my old habits and coming to understand the game.
Soon I was awestruck at my own self. I had come to learn fusion spells such as Meltdown, Dragon Cross and God's Hand. I had amassed a force of powerful personas. I had stockpiled a massive amount of blank tarot cards ripe for use. I learned the cool tricks with negotiation rumors, like getting Il-Dana to become Lugh. After a long 40+ hours, it felt like I finally understood the game.
Despite all of this, I still struggled. I managed to snatch victory from the final boss, but not without one hell of a fight.
Basically what I am trying to say here is, Eternal Punishment was certainly... eternally punishing.
My bad habits from IS came back to haunt me. I had to accept that negotiation was now essential. I had to embrace the Velvet Room that I mostly ignored in IS. And, I had to believe in the power of fusion spells more than ever. When the first few bosses I fought ended up in one-sided loses, I felt a voice inside me echo, "This is just the beginning."
"This isn't Innocent Sin." I weakly spoke. I knew I had to learn the game. I knew I had to get better. I had to start from square one.
I continued onward down my newfound path. Starting small with fusion spells like Blazing Hell, Ryuhei Tensho and Ice Blast. The amounts of tarot cards yielded to me from my negotiation attempts were meager, with 3-5 per battle. I knew the road ahead would be long, but I persevered. I took my cards to the Velvet Room and began to cast aside the starter Personas. "This isn't Innocent Sin." once again came across my mind. In that game, I held onto the starters for nearly the whole game. But not this time.
Even so, my efforts were often trounced. Random encounters were no problem, but I barely scraped by in most boss battles. Those fights really came down to the wire every single time. But the taste of a hard earned victory was sweet. I couldn't help but smirk every time I overcame a boss fight. I knew that I was dropping my old habits and coming to understand the game.
Soon I was awestruck at my own self. I had come to learn fusion spells such as Meltdown, Dragon Cross and God's Hand. I had amassed a force of powerful personas. I had stockpiled a massive amount of blank tarot cards ripe for use. I learned the cool tricks with negotiation rumors, like getting Il-Dana to become Lugh. After a long 40+ hours, it felt like I finally understood the game.
Despite all of this, I still struggled. I managed to snatch victory from the final boss, but not without one hell of a fight.
Basically what I am trying to say here is, Eternal Punishment was certainly... eternally punishing.
cj_iwakura
Member
They seem daunting, but once you master them, you can easily break them wide open. Pixie is OP for half the game(Megido).
Also, Toradora is great.
Also, Toradora is great.
King Gilgamesh
Banned
..................
OOOOKAY.
Okay, I don't like to propagate misinformation, and blindly following what I've heard because "it is known" is what leads to this kind of confusion anyway. After doing a little research, I found that the claims of moderator pedophilia were largely based on anecdotal evidence of supposed jailbait threads, none of which seem to have been archived at any point. There does seem to be a suspicious amount of positivity toward the subject, (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1088412, http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1064742), none of which can be traced back to the mod team. I'm sorry for any confusion or baseless allegations, again I try not to do that.
That's not what Asuka's like at all. She wants acceptance in the most basic definition of the word available. She wants acceptance the way every character in the series wants acceptance, so making it out to be a tsundere trait is a little inaccurate. Moreover, when we consider what form of acceptance she wants, rather, that she needs to impress people, it's easier to realize that she just wants to impress everyone. It's also easy to put her character into context when considering who she's based on, which would be Sayaka Yumi from Uncle Go's Mazinger Z, it's even easier to see the roots and context for Asuka's character.
More than anything, our sample size is too small, and putting a check mark next to a list of ever tsundere character (the word tsundere of course being highly controversial) who wants acceptance would be impossible.
Ah man. Firstly, I'm just going to point out
This is so false it hurts me to read. So, instead, I'm just going to ask that you look up the following people from the 70s:
Yoshiyuki Tomino
Osamu Tezuka
Ryoichi Ikegami
And that's barely scratching the surface.
My problem with TVTropes basically boils down to the fact that due to the memetic nature of tropes themselves, the website in question is a highly inaccurate memebase full of self-aggrandizing fanboys who enjoy their favorite series to the point of categorizing objective flaws as good things.
Uh...King Gilgamesh...I just want to bring up something, not as an insult or anything, but don't you think you kind of have an issue with contributing all things to a massive group of people? I mean, first you say the mod team is full of....yeah, now you're saying the TVTropes fanbase is full of "self-aggrandizing fanboys"? I mean, that's obviously not the case, not everyone on a forum website is the same, and feels kind of unwarranted seeing as a number of people on NeoGAF actually go on TVTropes a good number of times.
Given your previous accusation being based on anecdotal evidence, have you really ever even been to TVTropes past a Wild Mass Guess page?
I'd also like to bring up that tropes is a word brought up long before the creation of TVTropes and it doesn't have a necessarily negative connotation; tropes are pretty much the base of a story, memorable characteristics and general ideas used to describe things in a recognizable format. Just because something is "full of tropes" or someone says it is, isn't bad.
But most of all, I think we should probably move back on topic here. This is a Persona thread after all, not an Anime one, and we've kind of moved past anything related to Persona in this conversation...
Given your previous accusation being based on anecdotal evidence, have you really ever even been to TVTropes past a Wild Mass Guess page?
I'd also like to bring up that tropes is a word brought up long before the creation of TVTropes and it doesn't have a necessarily negative connotation; tropes are pretty much the base of a story, memorable characteristics and general ideas used to describe things in a recognizable format. Just because something is "full of tropes" or someone says it is, isn't bad.
But most of all, I think we should probably move back on topic here. This is a Persona thread after all, not an Anime one, and we've kind of moved past anything related to Persona in this conversation...
King Gilgamesh
Banned
Unfortunately, this is the case.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Anime/TengenToppaGurrenLagann
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Anime/ShinMazinger
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Anime/GunBuster
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Anime/dieBuster
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Awesome/GetterRobo
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Characters/GetterRobo
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Fridge/GetterRobo
Scratch that, let me just link this page and save everyone some time.
The problem with TVTropes is that it's Wikpedia done wrong. Every page (and I do mean this, out of personal experience) is what you would call "highly biased" at best, and any English major would be well to do without theirs if they wrote, like, anything that I linked to.
I didn't claim that TVT invented tropes, nor did I claim that they are inherently bad. They are, however, memes, and it's ridiculous to claim that TVTropes is anything more than a pretentious version of cheezeburger.
I....don't really see the problem? Of course those sections would be biased, they're created and compiled by fans of those shows.
No one is trying to say TVTropes is a reputable source for information, nor does it try to be. It's not really Wikipedia Done Wrong if it never set out to be Wikipedia in the first place. It's simply a for-fun database of characteristics one could use to describe a work. And again, just because you throw up a number of Anime/Manga pages doesn't mean everyone on there is like the examples you seem to have a problem with.
Really, I can tell you're a pretty serious guy when it comes to anime, and that's why we were suggesting AnimeGAF to you earlier, but if you seem to dislike the fanbase of whatever Anime groups you find, I don't know what to tell you.
In any case, this is the Persona thread. Not anime, and not the "I Hate TVTropes" thread, soooo.....
-----
I've been wondering something lately. The Sega TGS Lineup doesn't have Persona 5 on it, but does have Odin Sphere. I was under the impression that Odin Sphere was mostly an ATLUS thing, so was it just included on the Sega lineup because it was something announced to definitely be at TGS, and if so, will ATLUS (hopefully) have their own lineup they may or may not post? There's also the Sega Pre-TGS website that's supposed to go up around Sept. 10th, which I'm wondering if some others games could be brought up there.
Honestly, I know there's a 99.9% chance that Persona 5 will definitely be there, whatwith the Stalker Club live broadcast also going on, but I reallllyyyyy wish they would at least just come out and say it. Even though they've proven from the past that they really like keeping anything related to Persona 5 in the shadows.
...I swear I've never had this much anticipation for a game before. It's great but tortuous feeling. It seems the closer we are to possible news the more I want it, even though I was originally one of the guys who wanted to shut out anything until release....
No one is trying to say TVTropes is a reputable source for information, nor does it try to be. It's not really Wikipedia Done Wrong if it never set out to be Wikipedia in the first place. It's simply a for-fun database of characteristics one could use to describe a work. And again, just because you throw up a number of Anime/Manga pages doesn't mean everyone on there is like the examples you seem to have a problem with.
Really, I can tell you're a pretty serious guy when it comes to anime, and that's why we were suggesting AnimeGAF to you earlier, but if you seem to dislike the fanbase of whatever Anime groups you find, I don't know what to tell you.
In any case, this is the Persona thread. Not anime, and not the "I Hate TVTropes" thread, soooo.....
-----
I've been wondering something lately. The Sega TGS Lineup doesn't have Persona 5 on it, but does have Odin Sphere. I was under the impression that Odin Sphere was mostly an ATLUS thing, so was it just included on the Sega lineup because it was something announced to definitely be at TGS, and if so, will ATLUS (hopefully) have their own lineup they may or may not post? There's also the Sega Pre-TGS website that's supposed to go up around Sept. 10th, which I'm wondering if some others games could be brought up there.
Honestly, I know there's a 99.9% chance that Persona 5 will definitely be there, whatwith the Stalker Club live broadcast also going on, but I reallllyyyyy wish they would at least just come out and say it. Even though they've proven from the past that they really like keeping anything related to Persona 5 in the shadows.
...I swear I've never had this much anticipation for a game before. It's great but tortuous feeling. It seems the closer we are to possible news the more I want it, even though I was originally one of the guys who wanted to shut out anything until release....
Scrooge McDuck
Member
All these are not exactly mutually exclusive. Asuka doesn't just want to impress; she needs to impress. It's a compulsion, a desperate effort to keep proving herself. She fears failure and the rejection that would surely comes after. Heck, her Circle of Being was her mother's rejection of her. It's no surprise that after she felt useless the most, she immediately breaks down.
I'm not saying that a tsundere character would automatically have "a person who needs acceptance" as their main character arc. I'm saying "tsundere" is merely a trait, manifested from a character history. Saying that Marie is "tsundere about having friends" conveys just as much as saying Asuka is "tsundere who wants to impress". Right there you just need to ask why. Why is Marie tsundere about having friends (maybe because she's a introvert who can't properly convey her feelings) and why does she question why everyone likes her (maybe because she feels different compared to them all).
King Gilgamesh
Banned
Yeah, I guess you're right. I mean, I still don't like Marie or anything, but I get what you're saying.
Also I was typing really fast, and I didn't realize how incredibly dumb I sounded here:
King Gilgamesh said:
Sorry if I come off as argumentative or anything, I've been really busy and stressed out with classes.
KenjiGlove
Banned
It's fine
can we now talk about Persona?
To what?
A Dead Diehard
Member
Oh, I thought he was off by a few days. The pre-conference is 3 days in advance?
https://www.jp.playstation.com/blog/detail/1343/20150825_scejapc.html
At least, that's what I assume Flux is counting towards, as 11 days from now is the 15th (from my time zone.).
He made a post of it on his website some time ago, and the second teaser trailer for Persona 5 was unveiled at the conference last year.
TGS itself starts on Sept. 17th, and continues on until the 20th.
Can't think of any bigger events left this year if they're really shooting for 2015. Which they are.