BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
Junior Member
The funny thing about p3 is that it tried to be the darkest in the series but it isn't. I still think it's superior to p4 in every way except gameplay.
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Persona Community Thread: The Butterfly Effect
- Thread starter Dantis
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They're silly from a story standpoint, but awesome from a battle animation standpoint.
Outrageously cool, with the glass shattering effect and whatnot.
WrenchNinja
Member
Never really cared for that aspect of the game. I was more interested in the gods, demons, magic, etc. side. Kind of conflicted about Aigis (and Labrys) since I do like them as characters but I hate the robot and tech stuff that doesnt really make much sense.
GrandHarrier
Member
Disagree! Technology advanced enough is indistinguishable from magic. Devil Survivor, for example, showed that summoning circles were just mathematics. So the Coms could replicate the effect using technology.
I'm not saying it isn't a blending of the two. Because that is what it is. And it's a great hook with just as much potential as "I can summon my persona because magic card that comes from nowhere."
buddha0991
Member
The Evokers are described as re-purposed guns in the art books and such.
Well, Seta Souji was kinda a bad name. It didn't really fit, and it was too close Seta Soujiro phonically.
Yea, that's what the manufactured evokers are, the ones the team has, but the first evoker made for Mitsuru was purely to make Akihiko go SHIIIIET
But that's impossible even if you're being silly!
Remember the kids the Kirjio Group/Ikutsuki gathered up? The ones that became Strega? Yeah that would have been before Akihiko....
I think it fits in pretty well with the setting, given whole Jungian aspects and it raises the question of what it means to be human. Granted, I grew up reading the works of Asimov and Clarke...
GrandHarrier
Member
I understand your feelings and why you would see it that way but you have to admit it's kind of silly to get hung up on robots when God's are playing games with the fate of the world using Demons.
WrenchNinja
Member
Yeah, I suppose. Youve got the various animations for how each member shoots themselves in the head, Protagonist shooting his right temple, Yukari shooting her face, Junpei keeping thw gun further away from him and shooting, etc. Personally, and this probably isnt that surprising coming from me, but I liked P4's style of breaking the cards in various ways that fit the characters, Protagonist crushing it, Yosuke doing a flip and slashing, Chie round house kicking it, etc.
But I suppose if you look close enough the way each character shoots themselves in the head says a lot about them. I still think its pretty dumb, they know the guns are fake. I'd buy something like they shoot mind bullets or something.
I don't mind magic blending with technology, but Person treats it more like there's a terminating end point where "MAGIC GOES IN HERE" and that powers the 'technology'. The Unobtanium cop-out, basically.
GrandHarrier
Member
I guess. But I see it more like nuclear weapons. They don't work without the magic ingredient (Uranium / Plutonium etc). In this case it's just mystical in nature because humanity doesn't understand it. Or have normal access to it. Or the source accelerates what humanity could do in the future. For all we know, Shadow Fighting Robots could be doable with conventional tech in the future.
buddha0991
Member
Well ok I'll concede. Mitsuru DID take one of the evokers to impress Akihiko, but they were Indeed made from real guns and stuff.
Yeah, the whole gun thing is totally shoe-horned into the story for the sake of looking cool, but it's okay, because it does look cool.
WrenchNinja
Member
It's a different expectation. With otherworldly stuff I only really expect a loose explanation for how it works. Gods are gods, demons are demons, and theyre all the creation of the human unconcious, that are brought into power because of human belief. Magic bullshit doesnt need to be completely explained, since its magic. Once you start introducing technology though things start getting questionable to me. How does this work? Why can she do this? She's not human and her persona was installed into her? What? She hasnt awakened to her ego, so how does she use a persona? And there are weird plot stuff that happens with her like
like her being able to seal shadows as powerful as death into people.
Whoa whoa whoa. While I'll coincide your point (although I think you're unfairly over-thinking it too much), this question was answered in Persona 4 Arena.
The Anti-Shadow Weapons don't have a Persona specifically installed into them. They have to awaken to it the same way other people do. The difference is they were designed and trained to develop a Persona as a weapon.
GrandHarrier
Member
Explain how any advanced technology works. You and I probably couldn't. Not in anything but the basic terms. To us it's essentially magic. It's the same in SMT to me. A summoning circle made out of magic dust or a computer that looks like a DS running a "summoning program". Both are just mathematics (as explained in Devil Survivor).
Again, I understand why you feel as you do, it just doesn't bother me.
Clarke's law only operates from a place of ignorance. If you establish enough first principles technology is easily explainable. Magic is pretty much never truly explainable though; even in universe where 'laws' of magic are established, they're generally nothing more than rules of consistency rather than anything really comparable to physics or mathematics.
This is especially so in a series that begins to do stuff like operate based on willpower, the 'collective will of humanity' or any other such unquantifiably vague but impressive-sounding terms
...I'm not even really sure what we're arguing about because I like mathemagics
buddha0991
Member
Arguing is fun
'Cause it seems that the Persona 4 characters are simply restricted to the TV world when it comes to that, at least according to P4A. They're all surprised when Fuuka uses hers in the real world and learn that the P3 folk can summon theirs outside of the TV world as well.
Makes me question whether they would retcon this if the P4 characters were to return in the series in any significant way in the future.
buddha0991
Member
Thought it was implied that they could train to summon it outside or evoke it maybe
Will download P3P later tonight, is there any consensus on whether it's better to pick male or female MC your first time through?
I look forward to working my way backwards through the series even if I'm sure it will be frustrating in some instances and take up the majority of my vita's remaining memory card space.
I look forward to working my way backwards through the series even if I'm sure it will be frustrating in some instances and take up the majority of my vita's remaining memory card space.
Not merely implied. Outright stated that no outside influences are needed to summon a Persona.
(Also, the above dialogue confirms the canon of The Answer, for those of you still in denial.)
buddha0991
Member
Kirijo best step it up if she wants to take the #1 spot from Nanjo.
It has always been stated that the evokers are used to simply emulate a dangerous scenario, one that could traumatize its user into summoning their Persona. But why this would, in theory, trick themselves, never really stands up to much scrutiny. It's an aesthetic choice above all else.
The guns could be a good metaphor. Killing your visible facade to reveal your true personality. The suicide angle being that one must choose to drop the protective face we all wear in public. It fits thematically, but I don't remember what the explanation for them is in game. Edit. Posts above me answer the in game justification. Of course the in game justification could be to just have an excuse to set up the symbolism.
It's clear that the Evoker does more than simply emulate such a scenario. Something about the device itself creates a fear-impulse, and it's quite apparent from all the cutscenes that this effect occurs even before you pull the trigger.
A good expenditure of my time? Probably not, but I've done it anyway.
Also, on topic of the Evokers, it never bothered me that they don't make sense. I've always been much more concerned with the characters in Persona than the universe. I find inconsistency in character actions far more concerning than poor pseudo-science.
Also, on topic of the Evokers, it never bothered me that they don't make sense. I've always been much more concerned with the characters in Persona than the universe. I find inconsistency in character actions far more concerning than poor pseudo-science.
Ah, I see, so it's just that the P4 crew never thought of trying to summon theirs in the real world (except for drunk Rise, I guess).
Also, having one's Persona just pop out for no reason is kind of funny to me. I'm not quite sure if Personas are supposed to have their own minds, if they're solely controlled by those they inhabit or if it's a mixture of both. Persona 2's talking Personas and Persona 4 Arena makes me think it's the latter.
Oh wow, that turned out pretty awesome.
Persona are literally based predominately on unconscious thought, at least for most of the time. Although, Persona 1 did have an instance where a Persona can flat out take over and consume its user.
Although, that might be more due to the fact that said persona was actually Nyaralathotep.
GayForMaster
Banned
No it isn't man! They clearly sound different... I hate his P4A VOICE!
Wow, you're good. O_O
Also, switch of topics here but...
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Trivia/Persona4Arena
What.
Thanks!
Not sure I believe it. Are their references cited anywhere? Unless it's in the art book, I guess... I never picked it up because it's mostly Arc artwork.
buddha0991
Member
Dantis that looks Soejimaesque
This I gotta see.
Supermanisdead
Member
This is amazing fan art and you are totally right. P3 MC is awesome.
I like the style of P3's uniforms a lot better. The collars on the Yasogami uniforms aren't my thing.
Hard to say. I think it's Soejima's tho, as it's all hand-drawn.
It actually doesn't look that good on her. Now the art of her in the Yasogami uniform on the other hand...
Prime crotch
Banned
Evokers made sense thematacly, in that they're calling up personas by essentially having a near death experience; but how they're handled in-story is kinda lame since they're so irrelevant.
It did make for a pretty emotional scene when
they're retiring them
It looks much better on Fuuka than Aigis that's for sure.
At a point it all becomes conjecture, because its never explained outright, nor does it need to be. The evokers are rarely mentioned past the initial exposition-dump , where they are introduced as a basic short-cut to drawing out one's Persona.
The evoker concept works along the broad outline that they exist are a literal (and symbolic) emotional-trigger. Which I'd consider to be sound enough logic, at least thematically.
We need to see this
Also, awesome job as usual, Dantis.
Mmm... been too absent from this topic. I blame FE (Finally downloaded it)
SloaneRisette
Member
I swear, I got sleep for like eight hours and there's so many new pages.
Are you guys posting during the Dark Hour or something?
Also I liked Evokers, that beginning cutscene with Yukari in 3 was just too good when you have absolutely no clue what was happening. At least to me.
Are you guys posting during the Dark Hour or something?
Also I liked Evokers, that beginning cutscene with Yukari in 3 was just too good when you have absolutely no clue what was happening. At least to me.
Supermanisdead
Member
The first cutscene in P3 is one of the best scenes in any game. As soon as I saw it, I knew it was going to be the best game ever.
This is what I always wonder, I know a couple people are in different countries, but some are in the US.
Though, I'm fully convinced that Sophia is a robot.
Oh come on. Minato don't got the swag like Yu. And all the girls like Yu.
Yu is the baddest mofo low down around this town.
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