TurnipFritters
Member
Are you suggesting that modern day Persona does not contain gross otaku pandering bullshit?
(Just for shits and giggles, let's pretend that I posted a link to the new animated bath house scene in Persona 4 Golden.)
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Persona Community Thread: The Butterfly Effect
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Are you suggesting that modern day Persona does not contain gross otaku pandering bullshit?
(Just for shits and giggles, let's pretend that I posted a link to the new animated bath house scene in Persona 4 Golden.)
Sure it does, if we're using loaded terminology. It's disingenuous to refer to it as "gross otaku pandering bullshit" if you're actually interested in having a discussion about it. I know exactly what you're talking about but I would never describe it that way if I were talking about the game with friends or people interested in it.
It's easy to understand someone being upset that a franchise they're interested in has gone a way they're not happy with. It's pretty sad to see people being so venomous about it, though. It strikes me as the kid in this image macro:
Sure it does, if we're using loaded terminology. It's disingenuous to refer to it as "otaku pandering bullshit" if you're actually interested in having a discussion about it. I know exactly what you're talking about but I would never describe it that way if I were talking about the game with friends.
It's easy to understand someone being upset that a franchise they're interested in has gone a way they're not happy with. It's pretty sad to see people being so venomous about it, though.
Couldn't have said it better. At a certain point, the message is clear.
You don't like anime. We got it.
I think calling it 'moe' is being rather disingenuous, and does a bit of a disservice to the production as a whole. Moe is a nebulous term in general (and I dislike when it's thrown around), but it evokes a certain genre of anime that LWA very much is not. And if it's 'moe', then so is the likes of the Powerpuff Girls. It's charming, but it's not suffocating, and being 'cute' or fluffy isn't the objective. It's dense, but so deftly paces and cuts together the material that everything is given exactly the amount of time it should. Frankly, LWA's inspirations hew far more towards turn of the century Cartoon Network, and the Looney Tunes than most modern anime conventions. Yes, the broad strokes of the plot itself won't blow anyone's minds, but it's all attended to with such care and detail that getting hung up on it is like missing the forest from the trees. It's incredibly well executed, well produced, well paced, and well presented.
They're witches, as an aside. It's in the name. They're not magical girls, they're just... girls who are magical. It basically uses the Harry Potter definition.
Watching it wouldn't cost you more than twenty six minutes, too. Although if you go into it utterly convinced you'll hate it, there's no point. I just think it's a bit of a shame.
TurnipFritters
Member
they literally added animated sequences of the female cast taking baths. this scene adds nothing to the narrative or the storyline or the characterization. that is the very definition of gross otaku pandering bullshit.
Some cartoons are fine. Some are awful and designed specifically to appeal to the body pillow crowd.
buddha0991
Member
Not defending that scene in any way, because I thought it was stupid too, but it did serve a TINY point. Here look Marie has lightning/weather powers. waew.
It is also not a great way to judge the entire spectrum of 'modern day Persona'.
TurnipFritters
Member
P3 had the Yukari shower scene, and also the
fingering a robot
(Also they are dating sims)
I mean I totes expect this'll just go around in circles because some of y'all are gonna be all like "Turnip, there's no way you can convince me that a dating sim is otaku pandering bullshit, despite, you know, literally being a dating sim" so I imagine it's best to just peace out. ttyl~
The shower scene was relevant.
TurnipFritters
Member
Nope. It would literally have no impact on the events if they had cut the animated scene and just had her coming out of the bathroom.
I loved how one of the comments in the youtube vid kind of nailed how well put together it is. Watch it, then start it again, and less than 20 seconds in, you might see something referenced at the very end of the short. That's pretty damn solid.
And fan-service(which is what I think Turnip is getting at) is rarely necessary, but it is used sometimes as a comedy device. Now, whether or not this succeeds is up to the viewer. It fell flat on it's face both times in Golden, so yeah, neither bath scene was handled well in comparison to anything else in the game. Still found way more offense to the band new scene than I did to the first new hotspring scene, but man that second one, yeeeeeeeesh.
Moe can be thrown around in numerous ways. I use the term very loosely, so I agree with your point that it can be a nebulous term. LWA is extremely charmy, but when I watched it, I also felt a heavy dose of moe. The characters' art for LWA is moe, imo. I would disagree on the PPG because of the characters' design.
Moe can be used in a positive or a negative light. In Dantis's situation, I assume anything moe-related is a negative.
You are complaining about a minute and a half scene in a 40 hour game.
ScraftyDevil
Banned
I think I'd be more compelled to listen to your argument if you weren't blatantly insulting everyone who likes the newer games.
I greatly enjoy P3 and 4. I do not own nor have ever owned a body pillow, gel pad or other sexual paraphernalia. If you don't like anime, that's fine; everyone has their tastes. Please don't try to make us feel morally wrong for disagreeing.
And just out of curiosity: what do you think makes P1 & 2 inherently better than P3 & 4?
I greatly enjoy P3 and 4. I do not own nor have ever owned a body pillow, gel pad or other sexual paraphernalia. If you don't like anime, that's fine; everyone has their tastes. Please don't try to make us feel morally wrong for disagreeing.
And just out of curiosity: what do you think makes P1 & 2 inherently better than P3 & 4?
You are worse than Marvel.
I don't normally let insults get to me, but with what they are doing to spider-man these days, that hurts.
Much as I like Persona 4 (and indeed, a lot of anime), I could do without all the creepy panty shots/hot springs fanservice scenes. It really adds nothing to the story.
I mean, it doesn't ruin my love for the game, but I always find myself cringing and mashing X to get it over with sooner.
I mean, it doesn't ruin my love for the game, but I always find myself cringing and mashing X to get it over with sooner.
buddha0991
Member
I am a fan. I like to be serviced. But not that kind of service. This does not belong in Ballertown
2Lang4me.
I dunno though, something tells me the Lang zone would be filled with T&A.
CrazyTank940
Member
Oh hey guys what's going on in h-
*reads*
okay... I'll be over there out of this situation
*reads*
okay... I'll be over there out of this situation
TurnipFritters
Member
My fave thing about this discussion is that y'all are using "anime" as a synonym for creepy otaku pandering bullshit. It, um, kind of exposes a lot about how you think.
(Note: It's actually possible to make cartoons that don't focus on naked teenage girls. In fact, you can craft an entire narrative that doesn't involve the characters getting naked so fanboys can leer at them! And you can do this in any medium!)
SloaneRisette
Member
My mind is blown. I seriously did not know this.
buddha0991
Member
That's hearts on tits retarded.
SloaneRisette
Member
Is this really true?
"All the"? I do hope you realize you're talking about literally a handful of scenes (if that) in games that contain dozens upon dozens of interactions. And that the statement sounds a little silly because of it.
This is reaching if I ever saw any.
I think I've mentioned this before, but the attitude towards some of the newer additions (in here) to the franchise is at best, fairly bemusing, and at worst, ridiculously self-righteous.
I think there are some that need to make peace with the fact that these games aren't beholden to this mythical standard, one which seems to be peddled around here as fact. These are issues which have been ever present, and even if many of these work under the pretense of inverting well-worn (anime) tropes, the fact remains that they also indulge these unabated. It's naive to simply place all this under the umbrella of satire, because it clearly isn't. The series has always been subject to fan-service, and the other aspects that some like to portray as poisonous.
Yes, the point remains that some of the new scenes in P4G were extremely superfluous in their inclusion, particularly as they served no real narrative purpose. But it's the reaction towards this content, particularly as it has become so vehement, that just strikes me as being very disingenuous. It's clear that much of this ire is more about the nature of the content, rather than its place within the canon. So it stands to reason that all the games should be judged equally, though their is a clear bias that is blurring that line.
So lets take all this P4G rhetoric and place it next to P3.Let's not forgot that this is a game that has a robot masquerading as a robot girl, part of which has her implicitly discussing breast size, along with the other female team members. Or that there is scene, which only real purpose, is to contrive a situation in which Mitsuru believes Fuuka to be be masturbating in her room. Comparatively, I really find it to be aggrieved about that bathhouse scene. Is it fan-service? Yes. Is it egregious blight on the franchise? Hardly. Admittedly, it'd be reductive to boil these games to these sole moments, but it's no different from what I've seen in here.
It is perfectly valid to have a problem with such details, but it's kind of hard to accept this faux-outrage as anything other than that, when people seem content to judge many of these instances through a misleading double-standard. Persona is fun, it's great, but what it's not, is something that should be eulogized to this unreasonable degree. Fan service has always been present, so it's pretty galling to see a number of people simply divorcing themselves from this fact, in an effort to admonish fans of a specific title. Nor is it fair to equate anything remotely negative to "Oh, well that's all of that anime bullshit."
It's disconcerting that such a generalized view is becoming common in here.
I think there are some that need to make peace with the fact that these games aren't beholden to this mythical standard, one which seems to be peddled around here as fact. These are issues which have been ever present, and even if many of these work under the pretense of inverting well-worn (anime) tropes, the fact remains that they also indulge these unabated. It's naive to simply place all this under the umbrella of satire, because it clearly isn't. The series has always been subject to fan-service, and the other aspects that some like to portray as poisonous.
Yes, the point remains that some of the new scenes in P4G were extremely superfluous in their inclusion, particularly as they served no real narrative purpose. But it's the reaction towards this content, particularly as it has become so vehement, that just strikes me as being very disingenuous. It's clear that much of this ire is more about the nature of the content, rather than its place within the canon. So it stands to reason that all the games should be judged equally, though their is a clear bias that is blurring that line.
So lets take all this P4G rhetoric and place it next to P3.Let's not forgot that this is a game that has a robot masquerading as a robot girl, part of which has her implicitly discussing breast size, along with the other female team members. Or that there is scene, which only real purpose, is to contrive a situation in which Mitsuru believes Fuuka to be be masturbating in her room. Comparatively, I really find it to be aggrieved about that bathhouse scene. Is it fan-service? Yes. Is it egregious blight on the franchise? Hardly. Admittedly, it'd be reductive to boil these games to these sole moments, but it's no different from what I've seen in here.
It is perfectly valid to have a problem with such details, but it's kind of hard to accept this faux-outrage as anything other than that, when people seem content to judge many of these instances through a misleading double-standard. Persona is fun, it's great, but what it's not, is something that should be eulogized to this unreasonable degree. Fan service has always been present, so it's pretty galling to see a number of people simply divorcing themselves from this fact, in an effort to admonish fans of a specific title. Nor is it fair to equate anything remotely negative to "Oh, well that's all of that anime bullshit."
It's disconcerting that such a generalized view is becoming common in here.
buddha0991
Member
You know I bet you wasted your time typing that.
TurnipFritters
Member
I forgot the scenes in P1 and P2 where they get naked to take baths (and then decided in the portable ports to add an additional two bath scenes) and then one of the girls is like "Hey make sure you cover my mouth while you slip me your DNA because I'll spasm and moan."
Or the parts where you can put your teenage allies into S&M fetish gear (it must be really impressive for them to redraw all the character sprites just so you could check out Maki's thong)
Or where they were literally dating sims.
My bad!
Thanks for the ~truth bomb~ though.
Yes, because if there's one thing I've never complained about, it's the inclusion of fucking robot girls in Persona, and I certainly didn't comment on any of the gross content in P3 on like this very page.
TurnipFritters
Member
You can certainly argue that the Olde Games had fanservice (they did - the contact combos are literally nothing but), but to pretend it's on the same level as what's present in P3 and P4 (pick a version - any version!) is utterly ridiculous.
Haha, this is pretty much the same thought I had while reading this after being away from the thread for awhile.
I'll just stand here with you and watch. Popcorn?
WrenchNinja
Member
Lisa's verbal tic is really annoying. Does she ever just stop putting random words from other languages in her sentences?
.... you people really need to quit throwing the word "Moe" around. It doesn't mean what you think it means, seriously.
You're right. They had much worse stuff. Like chaining a fat kid to the bed and force feeding him after he awakens to a Penis persona which eventually goes berserk and attacks him.
Nope, but I imagine it was a little bit less unusual in the Japanese version, seeing as going form English to Chinese is a bit more award than Japanese to Chinese.
You're right. They had much worse stuff. Like chaining a fat kid to the bed and force feeding him after he awakens to a Penis persona which eventually goes berserk and attacks him.
Nope, but I imagine it was a little bit less unusual in the Japanese version, seeing as going form English to Chinese is a bit more award than Japanese to Chinese.
buddha0991
Member
KEHHEI, ITS JUST TOO DEEP FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND. HOUSHOUNAH! BAAIBAAI!
WrenchNinja
Member
Its like shes really here in this thread.
Theres a reason your love is unrequited, Ginko.
Theres a reason your love is unrequited, Ginko.
The games have always pandered to otaku. Different generations of otaku are pandered to in different ways.
buddha0991
Member
buddha0991
Member
buddha0991
Member
#teamballertown
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