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Persona Community Thread: The Butterfly Effect
- Thread starter Dantis
- Start date
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I think anime styles were really exciting when I was younger and unused to it. It was edgier and more expressive than anything I was used to, and more importantly, it was different.
Now that I've seen so much anime style content in games and shows, I'm kind of numb to it. You realize how much of it is actually pretty generic. That said, there are tons of artists within the genre that consistently do some pretty great stuff, and those are the people I continue to follow.
Now that I've seen so much anime style content in games and shows, I'm kind of numb to it. You realize how much of it is actually pretty generic. That said, there are tons of artists within the genre that consistently do some pretty great stuff, and those are the people I continue to follow.
You could say the same for practically any entertainment medium.
Translation: Dantis you seriously need to put your pride aside and watch LWA. It's really, really, really good.
Seconded. It's not worth standing your ground over, and it's really, really, really worth a look.
The way I see it is this: What we define as 'anime' is generally just art from Japan, right? It's painting such broad strokes that it's basically meaningless. I mean, to say something as detailed, stylised and yet brilliantly proportioned as Yoji Shinkawa's art is the same as, say, Hyperdimension Neptunia is just madness, right?
So I feel like you have to assign a scale to it. If something is 'more anime' then it's more deformed. The further something moves towards this hyper-stylised and deformed look, the more I would refer to it as anime. It's in the dinner-plate eyes, the overly dynamic poses and whatever else etc. etc.
So when I say "I dislike anime", I'm generalising. It's a technically disingenuous statement, because I'm such a huge fan of artists like Soejima, but it's just an easier way to say it.
The more accurate way to say it would be that I dislike this prominent sector of anime with it's badly drawn faces, terribly designed costumes, trite designs, boring sexualisation and pandering proportions.
But then I might come across as antagonistic, and nobody wants that.
Whoa. Whoa. WHOA. Dantis, you've already long since been casted as the antagonist of PersonaGAF.
cj_iwakura
Member
Crosspost, but it involves Atlus creative staff:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xzoeqj_imagine-nation-shin-megami-tensei-iv_videogames#.UYwjbcqyCG1
Great feature on SMT IV, from a Japanese network thing, but it's all in (hilariously narrated) English.
If you can get around that, there's some interviews with Masayuki Doi and Kazuyuki Yamai.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xzoeqj_imagine-nation-shin-megami-tensei-iv_videogames#.UYwjbcqyCG1
Great feature on SMT IV, from a Japanese network thing, but it's all in (hilariously narrated) English.
If you can get around that, there's some interviews with Masayuki Doi and Kazuyuki Yamai.
What we define as 'anime' is literally 'Japanese animation'.
It's as 'meaningless' a distinction as 'Korean film', 'western animation', or 'Japanese video game'.
Well, neither could be rightly defined as 'anime' given that, again, 'anime' is literally an creative medium and defined as nothing more than animation from Japan, but if we want to play along, art as detailed, stylized, and brilliantly proportioned as Yoji Shinkawa's art would be considered as 'anime' as Hyperdimension Neptunia. Twilight and The Lord of the Rings are both examples of western literature, and both exist on different planes of quality, and I would still call them both western literature.
I'm not sure I'm making my point hard to understand here, but I honestly cannot understand why you apparently have such difficulty reconciling that good things and bad things can both exist in a single artistic medium. If Shinkawa and Neptunia can both be defined as anime, it's literally no different than saying both The Room and Iron Man 3 are both films.
I'm glad you acknowledge that, but it's still incorrect.
This is hardly unique to 'anime', though.
Whoa. Whoa. WHOA. Dantis, you've already long since been casted as the antagonist of PersonaGAF.
What does that make TurnipFritters? :O
That's pretty much my point.
@Moonlight: I appreciate the effort, but I'm not responding to a million points. That's not how I role, dawg.
Although I will say that if your definition of anime is Japanese animation, then most videogame art isn't anime, as it is static. Which, again, is kind of my point.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
Keep fighting the good fight, Dantis, they'll get it eventually. LWA was lush, and most importantly, you would let your daughter watch it! You know how rare that is nowadays?!?!
Keep in mind, when guys over a certain age got exposed to the stuff, anime was much, much consistantly broader in terms of what forms it took. Most other animated fare in the 80s/early 90s was in the Animation Ghetto and was usually kids stuff and shoddy. Simpsons, Disney renaissance, and others were alongside Anime bringing the medium back, but anime had such a wild cornucopia under its banner; it was quite an eye opener even for types like me who'se only gotten interested and like 1/10th of what gets hyped up.
Keep in mind, when guys over a certain age got exposed to the stuff, anime was much, much consistantly broader in terms of what forms it took. Most other animated fare in the 80s/early 90s was in the Animation Ghetto and was usually kids stuff and shoddy. Simpsons, Disney renaissance, and others were alongside Anime bringing the medium back, but anime had such a wild cornucopia under its banner; it was quite an eye opener even for types like me who'se only gotten interested and like 1/10th of what gets hyped up.
The entire base of the argument is him not watching LWA for what can only be a personal fault at this point.
It's clear whatever the reason is, it has nothing whatsoever to do with anime.
cj_iwakura
Member
Well, this is a guy who won't play Yakuza 5 because it has dance battles.
As if the series has never ever had rampant silliness before.
This makes my reasoning sound so much deeper than it is.
As far as LWA goes, I am simply not interested in it. That's all there is to it.
See? CJ gets it.
cj_iwakura
Member
I really wouldn't be proud of being that shallow.
Gotta be proud of who you are, man!
I'll condense it for your convenience, then (if what you mean is the quote blocks). Anime is, literally, animation from Japan. It's not 'my' definition, it's literally what anime would mean in the context of how it's used in Japan. Which is usually the only thing I offer to these types of things because it's hard for people to reconcile the fact that it's just short-hand for Japanese animation like how 'cartoon' has become slang for western.
But you defined it as 'art from Japan', and if we used your definition, putting Neptunia and Soejima in the same box isn't the same as elevating one or lowering the other. It's not even comparing them. It would be a single box you'd need to check, a single requirement shared across a broad pallet of works. To put it simply, it's not equivocating anything, so creating the distinction is meaningless.
Of course, this is ultimately irrelevant because, again, anime is just animation, so putting it on a scale of one to anime as fuck doesn't work.
I'll admit to having trouble understanding what, specifically, your point is. If you mean to say that all of Japanese art is not anime, I don't think we're disagreeing at all, but that's not what your argument suggested, from how I read it. Especially when the first thing you did was define anime as Japanese art.
I just have something against using 'anime' pejoratively, I suppose.
And if that's what your problems with anime boil down to, Little Witch Academia hardly counts.
TurnipFritters
Member
Actually I'm the Main Character.
I'll condense it for your convenience, then (if what you mean is the quote blocks). Anime is, literally, animation from Japan. It's not 'my' definition, it's literally what anime would mean in the context of how it's used in Japan. Which is usually the only thing I offer to these types of things because it's hard for people to reconcile the fact that it's just short-hand for Japanese animation like how 'cartoon' has become slang for western.
But you defined it as 'art from Japan', and if we used your definition, putting Neptunia and Soejima in the same box isn't the same as elevating one or lowering the other. It's not even comparing them. It would be a single box you'd need to check, a single requirement shared across a broad pallet of works. To put it simply, it's not equivocating anything, so creating the distinction is meaningless.
Of course, this is ultimately irrelevant because, again, anime is just animation, so putting it on a scale of one to anime as fuck doesn't work.
I'll admit to having trouble understanding what, specifically, your point is. If you mean to say that all of Japanese art is not anime, I don't think we're disagreeing at all, but that's not what your argument suggested, from how I read it. Especially when the first thing you did was define anime as Japanese art.
I just have something against using 'anime' pejoratively, I suppose.
And if that's what your problems with anime boil down to, Little Witch Academia hardly counts.
Okay, I'm willing to accept this. Anime is Japanese animation, Soejima isn't anime therefore I can say that I dislike anime without being dishonest.
Conversation over, I guess.
Who's excited for the new Star Trek film? I know I am.
CrazyTank940
Member
Aaaaaaand now most of my evening will be on the digital crack that is TVTropes. Goddammit.
thank you
You're welcome.
As a friendly reminder: TV Tropes Will Ruin Your Life.
Also, because all of you deserve to suffer as we do in the chatroom.
You're welcome.
As a friendly reminder: TV Tropes Will Ruin Your Life.
Also, because all of you deserve to suffer as we do in the chatroom.
I actually love this song. Genuinely, it's great.
TurnipFritters
Member
no. you play persona. you like persona. persona is the most anime video game. it draws heavily from stock anime characters and storylines.
you like anime.
Deal.
With.
It.
buddha0991
Member
^You are the anime
YEAHYEAHEYEAHYEAHYEAH
YEAHYEAHEYEAHYEAHYEAH
TurnipFritters
Member
dantis your shadow is a giant anime fan.
cj_iwakura
Member
He's just Nyarlathotep, showing people what they refuse to admit.
Erm, weren't you reading? We decided that anime merely refers to the country of origin of a piece of 2D animation. Characters and settings are outside of that scope, and therefore you are wrong.
YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH!
Needs more actual Star Trek in it, but it'll probably be a decent summer movie.
Can't be any worse that Iron Man 3.
*raises hand*
Love
Also, man, Levito you are the only person I know who actively did larks Marvel films.
Benedict Cumberbatch is a really, really amazing actor, so I'm confident it'll be good.
TurnipFritters
Member
persona contains animation that originates in japan
You can just picture the "You're not me!" spiel from Dantis, can't you?
the beast that shouted uguu at the heart of the world
i'm not trying to demoralize anyone. he's the one with a weirdly hypocritical worldview. he's the one who's bloody well obsessed with persona and then wrings his hands about ~anime~
TurnipFritters
Member
the best/funniest thing is that he knows in his heart of hearts that he loves anime but he's utterly terrified to admit it.
How can that be when I am the main character?
TurnipFritters
Member
rei you're just a sidekick
buddha0991
Member
^But she is arguably the real main character of hee-her game, ho.
ScraftyDevil
Banned
Man, I don't even know what trope I am. Probably like, The Sixth Ranger or the Tagalong Kid or something.
Also, how much do you people want to bet that Benedict Cumberbatch's character in Into Darkness (PURE SPECULATION)
I'm hardly a Star Trexpert (I've only seen all of TNG and about 6-7 episodes of the original series), but it seems like something Abrams would do, knowing his love of twists.
Also, how much do you people want to bet that Benedict Cumberbatch's character in Into Darkness (PURE SPECULATION)
is actually Khan?
BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
Junior Member
Who's doing the character design for SMTIV? The character designs are very very very very "meh" IMO.
TurnipFritters
Member
i think he's supposed to be
darth vadar
also you are not a tvtrope, you are a real actual person with a multifaceted personality that can't be categorized or defined by a handful of titles.
Doi.
ScraftyDevil
Banned
- Status