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Persona Series Story & Spoilers, P4G Reflection, Persona 5 Speculation Inevitable

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S

Squire

Banned
Omikaru said:
I know some of you liked the "placeholder" box art for the UK release of P4 The Animation which I mentioned in the P4G OT, and my copy arrived today (and it seems they kept the placeholder box art), so I thought I'd post some pics here...



I know some of you were pretty crinkled that the US BR didn't have Japanese audio, and that was because Atlus are dickheads, so I wonder what's going on with the EU release?
Click to expand...

We also don't get the DVDs and BRs in the same package. WTH? And that's a reversible cover? The Sentai release is bullshit. There isn't even an animation when you load the disc. Just says BDMV as though you burned the disc yourself.

I'm still getting Vol. 2 day one.
 
D

Dantis

Member
Omikaru said:
I know some of you liked the "placeholder" box art for the UK release of P4 The Animation which I mentioned in the P4G OT, and my copy arrived today (and it seems they kept the placeholder box art), so I thought I'd post some pics here...



I know some of you were pretty crinkled that the US BR didn't have Japanese audio, and that was because Atlus are dickheads, so I wonder what's going on with the EU release?
Click to expand...

Why aren't they using Soejima art for the cover? The Japanese one does. :(
 
O

Omikaru

Member
Besides the fact that the UK release is split up into 3 volumes rather than the 2 which the US has, I'm actually pretty happy with this release.

Price is a bit high, mind. £17-£20 for 9 episodes is pretty disgusting, though I expect volume 3 (which will only have 6 or 7) will be a bit cheaper.

Dantis said:
Why aren't they using Soejima art for the cover? The Japanese one does. :(
Click to expand...
Beggars cannot be choosers. Between this and the US release, I think the UK box art is the better one.

Inorigo said:
We also don't get the DVDs and BRs in the same package. WTH? And that's a reversible cover? The Sentai release is bullshit. There isn't even an animation when you load the disc. Just says BDMV as though you burned the disc yourself.

I'm still getting Vol. 2 day one.
Click to expand...
Nah, it's not reversible. It's all card.

And the DVD and BR in one package is a relatively new thing. Studio Ghibli have been doing it with their movies lately (I got Arrietty for Christmas and it's got both), but I've never seen this with anime series before. I think it's partly to encourage people to make the HD switch, but also because it's cheaper to bundle them into one package than have two separate releases which they need to get the right stock balance of. Honestly, I find it kind of irritating since I'm sure I'm paying for the privilege of having DVDs I'm not going to use, but I suppose if you're thinking of jumping to HD but can't afford a Blu-ray player just yet, the double-pack is a good way of futureproofing your collection.
 
S

Samurai_Heart

Member
Omikaru said:
Besides the fact that the UK release is split up into 3 volumes rather than the 2 which the US has, I'm actually pretty happy with this release.

Price is a bit high, mind. £17-£20 for 9 episodes is pretty disgusting, though I expect volume 3 (which will only have 6 or 7) will be a bit cheaper.
Click to expand...
Lol don't complain at that price; Japan retails around that price for 1 disc with 1 episode XD.
And my god UK gets a one up from an American release =p. So happy they chose to package both DVD and Blu-ray together; I feel for the American fans with that BS on their Blu-ray though.
 
D

Dantis

Member
RIGHT.

Let's talk Arena plot.

My understanding of the gist of it is this:

Investigation Team enters. Illusion takes place and warps their perceptions. Their warped perceptions make them fight each other and basically disregard the themes of Persona 4.


Someone convince me this isn't dire.
 
S

Sophia

Member
Dantis said:
RIGHT.

Let's talk Arena plot.

My understanding of the gist of it is this:

Investigation Team enters. Illusion takes place and warps their perceptions. Their warped perceptions make them fight each other and basically disregard the themes of Persona 4.


Someone convince me this isn't dire.
Click to expand...

Explaining it all requires explaining a lot of Labrys's back story. But the short jist is that the illusions are created by Shadow Labrys specifically to disregard the themes of Persona 4. She's trying to make everyone in the Persona 4 cast kill each other. It's a representation of what the real Labrys had to go through at the hands of the Kirijo Group years earlier.

If Yu hadn't fought back, Yosuke would have almost certainly killed him thanks to the illusion. At which point the masterminds behind Shadow Labrys would have turned their Personae back into Shadows for whatever plot they have going on.

Yu actually makes note of this afterwords, and frequently narrates about how he doesn't like being forced to fight at all.
 
D

Dantis

Member
Right, that's what I thought.

But what I'm saying is, why would Yosuke have killed Yu?

And just as importantly, Yu isn't avoiding conflict. He says "You'll get your fight!". He actively goes out of his way to fight Yosuke without considering there might be a way around it.
 
S

Sophia

Member
Dantis said:
Right, that's what I thought.

But what I'm saying is, why would Yosuke have killed Yu?

And just as importantly, Yu isn't avoiding conflict. He says "You'll get your fight!". He actively goes out of his way to fight Yosuke without considering there might be a way around it.
Click to expand...

If Yu hadn't fought back, it wouldn't have been a proper fight, and thus Yosuke would have had to kill him to be declared the winner. And the illusions would have gotten worse. :p

Shadow Labrys notes later on that she made a mistake by not specifically making the rules require killing each other.

There really isn't much of an option for Yu to avoid conflict there. It was either fight back or eventually die.

(And I'll have to continue this discussion later, I'm being pulled away to go out to eat.)
 
D

Dantis

Member
Inorigo said:
Why do you hate fun, Dantis? Hm?
Click to expand...

I love fun. Just only in certain contexts.

I just feel like Arena is a poor sequel to Persona 4.

Sophia said:
If Yu hadn't fought back, it wouldn't have been a proper fight, and thus Yosuke would have had to kill him to be declared the winner. And the illusions would have gotten worse. :p

Shadow Labrys notes later on that she made a mistake by not specifically making the rules require killing each other.
Click to expand...

But what I'm saying is, why is Yosuke trying to kill Yu? After the fight, doesn't he reveal that he heard Yu taunting him about the nurse porn thing?
 
D

Data West

coaches in the WNBA
I kind of hope in 5 they do more 'special events' with your love interest (or you could substitute a best friend or something). Some of my favorite parts were the holiday events, especially the cabin thing. And no I don't mean Mass Effect 'lets bone' cutscenes
 
S

Sophia

Member
Dantis said:
But what I'm saying is, why is Yosuke trying to kill Yu? After the fight, doesn't he reveal that he heard Yu taunting him about the nurse porn thing?
Click to expand...

The context in which Yu and Yosuke fight is different in their respective story modes. We don't see what Yosuke was seeing exactly in his story.
 
B

buddha0991

Member
Dantis said:
RIGHT.

Let's talk Arena plot.

My understanding of the gist of it is this:

Investigation Team enters. Illusion takes place and warps their perceptions. Their warped perceptions make them fight each other and basically disregard the themes of Persona 4.


Someone convince me this isn't dire.
Click to expand...

actually it proves that their bonds are so strong that they can beat a manipulation of a machine designed to completely fuck with peoples senses and emotions and can survive and even best a plot devised by the crawling chaos itself.
 
S

Squire

Banned
Dragonzord said:
I kind of hope in 5 they do more 'special events' with your love interest (or you could substitute a best friend or something). Some of my favorite parts were the holiday events, especially the cabin thing. And no I don't mean Mass Effect 'lets bone' cutscenes
Click to expand...

That, and I agree with Dantis in that they need to acknowledge birthdays that take place during the game.

Like, don't just make it where the party so conveniently has a birthday in their group every month, but make it organic-feeling. It's bizarre to see their birthdays listed on the MegaTen Wiki.
 
S

Samurai_Heart

Member
Dragonzord said:
I kind of hope in 5 they do more 'special events' with your love interest (or you could substitute a best friend or something). Some of my favorite parts were the holiday events, especially the cabin thing. And no I don't mean Mass Effect 'lets bone' cutscenes
Click to expand...
I'm wishing the ending will be slightly more unique depending who you chose as your love interest; they kinda tried it with P3P and P4Golden's valentines day but I wish it was so the multiple playthroughs seem more worthwhile.
 
D

Data West

coaches in the WNBA
Samurai_Heart said:
I'm wishing the ending will be slightly more unique depending who you chose as your love interest; they kinda tried it with P3P and P4Golden's valentines day but I wish it was so the multiple playthroughs seem more worthwhile.
Click to expand...

It still feels loose even with that though. Like Naoto talks about how she can come visit you, but it's just kind of like 'well, did she?'
 
D

Dantis

Member
Sophia said:
The context in which Yu and Yosuke fight is different in their respective story modes. We don't see what Yosuke was seeing exactly in his story.
Click to expand...

And therein lies the problem I was trying to talk about earlier.

You have these friends, who are incredibly close. The illusions, as I understand it, are limited to the constraints of the person, right? So Yosuke won't have seen Yu trying to kill him or anything?

What could Yu have possibly said that could make Yosuke try to kill him?

The whole context to the story doesn't work. It's a story about best friends trying to murder each other because of silly words, and I cannot for the life of me understand why everyone is so accepting of it.

Inorigo said:
That, and I agree with Dantis in that they need to acknowledge birthdays that take place during the game.

Like, don't just make it where the party so conveniently has a birthday in their group every month, but make it organic-feeling. It's bizarre to see their birthdays listed on the MegaTen Wiki.
Click to expand...

Seriously. It's even worse that they state when everyone's various birthdays are in the art books and whatnot.
 
U

Uncle AJ

Member
Dantis said:
The whole context to the story doesn't work. It's a story about best friends trying to murder each other because of silly words, and I cannot for the life of me understand why everyone is so accepting of it.
Click to expand...

I'd imagine creating a premise for a game where best friends have to fight against each other isn't easy. I'd say they did a damn good job given the circumstances.
 
D

Dantis

Member
Mo the Hawk said:
I'd imagine creating a premise for a game where best friends have to fight against each other isn't easy. I'd say they did a damn good job given the circumstances.
Click to expand...

I'd imagine it isn't, but I'd rather have no story at all than one which has a questionable plot and smears it with fan-service to hide it. :p
 
D

Data West

coaches in the WNBA
I'd also like to see Personas more frequently during battle, but I don't know if that would mess with their 'lore' too much. I'd settle for just a blurry image of them standing behind the user.
 
T

Trigger

Member
I don't think any of the gang would have genuinely killed each other. The plot made it seem to me more like mutual self-defense.
 
C

Chavelo

Member
Dantis said:
I'd imagine it isn't, but I'd rather have no story at all than one which has a questionable plot and smears it with fan-service to hide it. :p
Click to expand...

Eh, when it comes to fighting games and story, P4A takes the cake, followed by BB, GG, and MK9. :p
 
M

meltingparappa

Member
Arena also functioned as a semi-sequel to both P3 and P4, and did a good job of setting up at least two sorta-sequels (in whatever form they'll eventually take).

Wrapping ANY story premise around a fighting game is really hard, but I would absolutely say they tried something incredibly ambitious and mostly succeeded.
 
S

Sophia

Member
Dantis said:
And therein lies the problem I was trying to talk about earlier.

You have these friends, who are incredibly close. The illusions, as I understand it, are limited to the constraints of the person, right? So Yosuke won't have seen Yu trying to kill him or anything?

What could Yu have possibly said that could make Yosuke try to kill him?

The whole context to the story doesn't work. It's a story about best friends trying to murder each other because of silly words, and I cannot for the life of me understand why everyone is so accepting of it.
Click to expand...

buddha0991 said:
actually it proves that their bonds are so strong that they can beat a manipulation of a machine designed to completely fuck with peoples senses and emotions and can survive and even best a plot devised by the crawling chaos itself.
Click to expand...

What da buddha said. The illusions fail because their bonds are incredibly strong. Mitisuru and Akihiko's bonds are arguably even stronger. They treat it sportsman like and COMPLETELY screw up the illusion effect. Shadow Labrys pretty much drops the disguise and flat out reveals who she is in that story mode.

You'll notice that the Shadow Labrys's disguise fails more and more in Yu's story mode, because he isn't falling for it.

Also, each story mode differs slightly because it's a fighting game. Who makes it to the announcement room is different depending on who you're playing as. Thus the context of Yu and Yosuke's fight is different in their respective story modes.
 
M

meltingparappa

Member
Meanwhile, In P4 Arena 2...

1356640674758_zps1e867bbc.jpg
 
D

Data West

coaches in the WNBA
They should have just made it a Persona fighting game without the users and then sold the Persona 4 visual novel separately but try to make choices work as S Links.
 
S

Squire

Banned
Dantis said:
Seriously. It's even worse that they state when everyone's various birthdays are in the art books and whatnot.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I think the game is waaaaaaay too good to hold it against them, but it's another small thing that borders on being an oversight. Like, "How did you guys miss this?"

But Hashino wants to add things "people want and expect" which prompts me to ask you all what you think those kinds of things would be. I think birthdays is a pretty good guess. I don't even need a party for every character, just "Hey, (party member's) birthday is next week. You should get them a gift."
 
D

Dantis

Member
Sophia said:
What da buddha said. The illusions fail because their bonds are incredibly strong. Mitisuru and Akihiko's bonds are arguably even stronger. They treat it sportsman like and COMPLETELY screw up the illusion effect. Shadow Labrys pretty much drops the disguise and flat out reveals who she is in that story mode.

You'll notice that the Shadow Labrys's disguise fails more and more in Yu's story mode, because he isn't falling for it.

Also, each story mode differs slightly because it's a fighting game. Who makes it to the announcement room is different depending on who you're playing as. Thus the context of Yu and Yosuke's fight is different in their respective story modes.
Click to expand...

But when they're fighting, it is actually them, right? Shadow Labrys was just General Teddie?

So in Yu's story mode, Yu and Yosuke fight. Regardless of what they hear the other one say, it makes no sense for them to do so.

meltingparappa said:
Meanwhile, In P4 Arena 2...

1356640674758_zps1e867bbc.jpg
Click to expand...

This is amazing. Did you actually make this?
 
B

buddha0991

Member
Dantis said:
And therein lies the problem I was trying to talk about earlier.

You have these friends, who are incredibly close. The illusions, as I understand it, are limited to the constraints of the person, right? So Yosuke won't have seen Yu trying to kill him or anything?

What could Yu have possibly said that could make Yosuke try to kill him?

The whole context to the story doesn't work. It's a story about best friends trying to murder each other because of silly words, and I cannot for the life of me understand why everyone is so accepting of it.



Seriously. It's even worse that they state when everyone's various birthdays are in the art books and whatnot.
Click to expand...

they arent tryin to kill each other at all, its established that the loser will simply stay there while the winner moves on.
 
S

Sophia

Member
Dantis said:
But when they're fighting, it is actually them, right? Shadow Labrys was just General Teddie?

So in Yu's story mode, Yu and Yosuke fight. Regardless of what they hear the other one say, it makes no sense for them to do so.
Click to expand...

Yes, it's technically them, but the illusion is goading them to fight, much like how a Shadow goads its regular self. What they see and what they hear are not the same thing.

Shadow Labrys's illusions actually suck for that purpose, as it wasn't intended to make people fight each other, it was intended to protect the real Labrys if she had issues with her consciousness.

buddha0991 said:
they arent tryin to kill each other at all, its established that the loser will simply stay there while the winner moves on.
Click to expand...

More specifically, the goal is to get them to kill and seriously injure each other and damage their friendship. It just wasn't a requirement of the tournament to go on if they both fought. The combination of Shadow Labrys sucking and their bonds being too strong means nobody really hurts each other that badly. "If you hadn't held back, I could have been seriously injured" is basically repeated in some form after every fight. =P

And with this, I'm leaving the house for delicious pizza at a pizza parlor with friends and family. SOPHIA HAS LEFT THE BUILDING! *slam*
 
B

buddha0991

Member
Dantis said:
But when they're fighting, it is actually them, right? Shadow Labrys was just General Teddie?

So in Yu's story mode, Yu and Yosuke fight. Regardless of what they hear the other one say, it makes no sense for them to do so.



This is amazing. Did you actually make this?
Click to expand...

It feels almost the same as "YOU'RE NOT ME" goading and how none of the team ever try to stop it at all.
 
K

kewlmyc

Member
Persona 4 Arena's story would have been better if they didn't have then attacking each other with weapons, just persona. The story sets it up so that Yu, Yosuke, Naoto, Aigis, and Mitsuru are attracting each other with deadly firepower which doesn't make sense considering they aren't supposed to be fights to the death. The Answer had the same problem. Aigis firing bullets at Akihiko and Ken should have instantly killed them. Unless having a persona makes you have superhuman damage resistance, which could make sense.

buddha0991 said:
It feels almost the same as "YOU'RE NOT ME" goading and how none of the team ever try to stop it at all.
Click to expand...

This always bothered me to no end. At least the anime remedied it by having the gang distracted by grunt shadows every time. One of the good things to come out of the anime.
 
J

jello44

Chie is the worst waifu
Sophia said:
Yes, it's technically them, but the illusion is goading them to fight, much like how a Shadow goads its regular self. What they see and what they hear are not the same thing.

Shadow Labrys's illusions actually suck for that purpose, as it wasn't intended to make people fight each other, it was intended to protect the real Labrys if she had issues with her consciousness.



More specifically, the goal is to get them to kill and seriously injure each other and damage their friendship. It just wasn't a requirement of the tournament to go on if they both fought. The combination of Shadow Labrys sucking and their bonds being too strong means nobody really hurts each other that badly. "If you hadn't held back, I could have been seriously injured" is basically repeated in some form after every fight. =P

And with this, I'm leaving the house for delicious pizza at a pizza parlor with friends and family. SOPHIA HAS LEFT THE BUILDING! *slam*
Click to expand...

You said that an hour ago! :p

buddha0991 said:
It feels almost the same as "YOU'RE NOT ME" goading and how none of the team ever try to stop it at all.
Click to expand...

Well.. they KINDA did..

"NO! Don't say it!"

...but instead of rushing in they just stand there with their mouths agape.
 
D

Dantis

Member
Sophia said:
Yes, it's technically them, but the illusion is goading them to fight, much like how a Shadow goads its regular self. What they see and what they hear are not the same thing.

Shadow Labrys's illusions actually suck for that purpose, as it wasn't intended to make people fight each other, it was intended to protect the real Labrys if she had issues with her consciousness.

More specifically, the goal is to get them to kill and seriously injure each other and damage their friendship. It just wasn't a requirement of the tournament to go on if they both fought. The combination of Shadow Labrys sucking and their bonds being too strong means nobody really hurts each other that badly. "If you hadn't held back, I could have been seriously injured" is basically repeated in some form after every fight. =P

And with this, I'm leaving the house for delicious pizza at a pizza parlor with friends and family. SOPHIA HAS LEFT THE BUILDING! *slam*
Click to expand...

This story just doesn't work for me. I cannot believe that these characters would ever fight. It's very silly, and it really does feel fan-fictiony to me.

Like I say, I'd rather we had no story than what we got.

buddha0991 said:
I want pizza.
Click to expand...

Me too buddy.

Me too.
 
M

meltingparappa

Member
Also I know some people have written it off as cheesy, but the reiteration that the strength of a character's bonds comes to a head when in Elizabeth's (generally incredible route), after steamrolling every character, she is about to fight Yu a second time when all of his friends rush in.

At that point, the sudden appearance of "the power emanating inside him from the bonds they've created" completely shocks and intimidates her, and she says the only other time she's ever felt that strength was from the P3 Protagonist.

For a game where the P3 characters easily stole the spotlight from the P4 cast, that little moment struck me as a subjectively powerful reminder of how incredible the friendship theme of P4 was.
 
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