People really exaggerate how dark MegaTen is. Compared to other JRPGs it's dark, but compared to something like Fatal Frame, it's nothing.
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Persona Series Story & Spoilers, P4G Reflection, Persona 5 Speculation Inevitable
- Thread starter we.are.the.armada
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People really exaggerate how dark MegaTen is. Compared to other JRPGs it's dark, but compared to something like Fatal Frame, it's nothing.
Anime cares not for your silly rules!
But yes, it's a little absurd.
Most of the girls in DeSu2 had weird gravity breasts.
Your barometer is a horror game?
Persona 2: Innocent Sin is darker than some of the MegaTen games are. Not every day the villain wins, kills a beloved member of the party, and destroys the whole world.
I hate DeSu's art so much. Kaneko and Soejima both have styles which follow proportions and form really accurately (By anime standards), whereas DeSu is full-on anime weirdness.
It's a game which I'm a huuuuuuuge fan of, so I know a lot about.
It's pretty much the darkest game I know of. My point is, compared to a game which really is dark, MegaTen is nothing.
buddha0991
Member
They never were the same series. In japan, they dont consider Persona, Devil Summoner, DDS, Devil Survivor, etc as SMT games. They do consider however, SMT, Persona, Devil Summoner, DDS, Devil Survivor, etc as the "Megaten games"
buddha0991
Member
I have never seen the thing that happens if you do the bad choice for Yukino
Like I say, dark by JRPG standards, definitely. But from the way people talk about it, I feel like you'd expect more. P2 has a lot of light-hearted moments too.
Let's just say Anna takes a free skydiving lesson.
Yup.
Yeah. You can also tell Jun you hate him, and he'll get on his knees, begging you to tolerate him enough to fix the whole situation. (or so i read, i never picked that option because i felt bad lol)
cj_iwakura
Member
Well, you do watch the Messians destroy the world in SMT1 by starting a nuclear holocaust, and that was in 1992.
indigo-cyclops
Member
I'm so close to just buckling and picking this game up on PSN...I had the UMD of Innocent Sin...
Are both remakes available on PSN for PSP/Vita?
I think what is meant by Persona 2 being dark is thematically, it deals with very complex and 'dark' themes. Aesthetically it doesn't match up to Fatal Frame, but they're two different games as well.
buddha0991
Member
^No, we didnt get the original Innocent Sin, it looks like we are not getting the (superior) Remake of Eternal Punishment, while we did get the (Inferior) Remake of Innocent Sin
then you proceed to kill God, YHWH in SMT2
then you proceed to kill God, YHWH in SMT2
TurnipFritters
Member
"Lisa tried d-d-d-drugs!!!" is another example of the "Megami Tensei games really aren't that dark when you compare them to other, non-JRPG games."
P1 and P2 IS are. EP is yet to be translated.
Is this one that bad? Surely one of the Final Fantasy games has something similar?
Either way, I'm not saying they're not dark relative to other JRPGs, but compared to actually dark games, they're child's play.
I don't remember that, all i remember in IS was getting the ending where everything resets or whatever and it's back to Tatsuya fixing his bike.
Was probably mindblowing in 1992, but it kinda loses it's effect nowadays. :\
The big difference is that the Messians are actually using real nukes and nuking the shit out of Japan specifically. It's not fantasy-psuedo-nuke-magic on a fantasy world. Back in 1992, that would have been pretty dark.
ULTROS!
People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
Ginko/Lisa Silverman has a pretty crazy characterization. She's a caucasian girl raised by Japanophile parents thus making her speak Japanese only but she learns Cantonese due to her interest in martial arts and she takes drugs and sleeps with old men for money. First time I've seen like that in a JRPG. 
Well, compared to Silent Hill it's definitely child's play.
Well, compared to Silent Hill it's definitely child's play.
Yeah, I guess.
I actually think the Persona games get their darker themes just right. They're not all-encompassing, but themes like sex, drugs and violence are at least acknowledged.
I wouldn't change it, given the option.
It is definitely a byproduct of the era. A remake would have to be pretty extensive in details and themes to get an appropriate level of darkness nowadays. Nocturne just dodged the issue entirely by blowing up the world in the first five minutes. >_>;
Ginko/Lisa Silverman has a pretty crazy characterization. She's a caucasian girl raised by Japanophile parents thus making her speak Japanese only but she learns Cantonese due to her interest in martial arts and she takes drugs and sleeps with old men for money. First time I've seen like that in a JRPG.
Also, her dad is Steven Seagal.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
Another of the things I like is that it isn't pretentious about that stuff. Things are about gods fucking shit up but it's without endless philosophizing. It's as if they respect the player enough that they won't treat it like a "I KNOW THAT ONE!!!!11" thing and actually use the concept as inspiration instead of a crammed in reference.
There's always the Blind Men and the Elephant factor. Some people are going to bring a smiplified or fewer dimensional view away from a complex whole game. The key is subsequent iterations are not pared to one of those reduced takeaways...
indigo-cyclops
Member
I mean really, it's not dark unless your'e doing impressions of jets and construction sites.
I really want negotiations back.
I really want negotiations back.
cj_iwakura
Member
What makes things extra painful for Lisa is that everyone assumes she speaks English since she's Caucasian, and she can't speak a word.
meltingparappa
Member
This thread has worn me down, and I think I'm going to buy Persona 2 after a friend finishes up with my copy/system of P4G.
So if I buy Innocent Sin they'll eventually release Eternal Punishment, right?
Right?
....right?
So if I buy Innocent Sin they'll eventually release Eternal Punishment, right?
Right?
....right?
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
Many people seem to think that Persona 2 is a great game and I admit, when I played it during the first scenes of the game the atmosphere was great. But then the battle system appeared.
buddha0991
Member
people love persona 2 becuase of everythin else but the gameplay. btw the ps1 version had better gameplay flow and difficulty plus less random encounters
dunno why I wrote characters the first time.
TurnipFritters
Member
Persona 1 is basically Silent Hill the JRPG (and all the lighthearted goofiness that implies).
meltingparappa
Member
If you're in the US, you can still get it cheap on amazon and ebay. By default it comes with Dante, too!
Note ahead of time that if you're going to go for the "True" Demon Ending, you have to use the hell out of a faq.
Also that True Demon Ending involves like.... level 99 demons across the board. HARD WORK for that best ending. The other endings are all good too though.
TurnipFritters
Member
You can purchase it from Amazon.com, where it costs less than 20 bucks. All english versions of the game are the Dante version. The version with Raidou was only released in Japan with the special edition of Raidou versus King Abaddon (so good luck tracking down a copy that doesn't cost an arm and a leg).
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
Not really, since all that it requires for the true demon ending is to enter the elevator at the end of Amala right?
Goddamn actually traversing and defeating Amala without any help of any faq whatsoever was one of my most satisfying moments in gaming. Simply fantastic all around.
I think it's better for business to put that stuff out slowly. It commands a little more attention that way. P3FES had a bit of a spotlight as a PS2 classic. That's better than a bunch of vague blog posts about how a gaggle of SMT games lord knows you've never heard of are going up on PSN the following Tuesday.
Not US, but PCSX2 is region-free so I'm fine on that front. I do wonder if Amazon ships outside the US though.
TurnipFritters
Member
From their website:
The majority of items in Amazon's product catalog (automotive, baby, clothing, consumer electronics, health and personal care, home and garden, industrial and scientific, jewelry, pet supplies, shoes, software, sporting goods, tools, toys, video games, and watches) can be shipped to the following countries:
Argentina, Australia, Austria, Bahrain, Belgium, Brazil, Bulgaria, Canada, Chile, China, Colombia, Costa Rica, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Egypt, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hong Kong, Hungary, India, Indonesia, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Jordan, Kuwait, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malaysia, Malta, Mexico, Monaco, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Oman, Panama, Peru, Philippines, Portugal, Poland, Qatar, Romania, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, Slovakia, Slovenia, South Africa, South Korea, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Taiwan, Thailand, United Arab Emirates, United Kingdom, Uruguay, Venezuela
I always thought Persona 3 was a very odd choice, given Persona 3 Portable was out. Then again I bought it even knowing about the emulation issues so.... ><;
meltingparappa
Member
Oh god, my experience was so much more work than that.
It is possible to survive those final labyrinthine parts of Amala without a walkthrough, but there are specific skills you HAVE to get and be sure to never "forget", along with a very specific demon you need to keep around to increase your chances against that final secret boss.
And then regardless of that ending, there's that one boss that involves shadows and the lunar cycles that must have been mind-boggling to try and figure out without a faq or a copy of EGM or whatever.
I like that I'm vague for spoilers of that 10 year old game in this thread.
Great, I'm covered. Will import when I get some free gaming time (which won't be for a while
)TurnipFritters
Member
What are you talking about? The
Pixie
Pierce demon
...unless you're playing on Hard mode, but why would you?
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
Woah, thinking about it right now, I cannot believe that my past self was actually capable of doing that dungeon without a faq! I remember cursing a lot though through that one, hahahaha.
I always thought that was just bizarre, I don't see how making an impression of a jet taking off is a viable negotiation tactic.
I always thought that was just bizarre, I don't see how making an impression of a jet taking off is a viable negotiation tactic.
Maybe the demon was born in a construction site with jets flying overhead, and you making those sounds reminded it of its childhood, staring blankly into space as it reminisces of simpler times.
I gotta say, of the shown SMT 4 designs, Jonathan's the only one who looks cool to me.
Though I also get the vibe of 'oh I Bet he betrays you' from him.
I also hope they put SMT 2 up on PSN before 4 comes out. I'd like to play that on my Vita. Would be funny if that magically got a proper translation and put out here before EP. And by funny, I mean funny. Aleph laughing gif and everything.
I never checked. Did DDS 1 & 2 ever come out on PS2 Classics? I remember them being announced early this year then heard nothing.
Though I also get the vibe of 'oh I Bet he betrays you' from him.
I also hope they put SMT 2 up on PSN before 4 comes out. I'd like to play that on my Vita. Would be funny if that magically got a proper translation and put out here before EP. And by funny, I mean funny. Aleph laughing gif and everything.
I never checked. Did DDS 1 & 2 ever come out on PS2 Classics? I remember them being announced early this year then heard nothing.
meltingparappa
Member
I guess I might be exaggerating when I say you NEED to, but when I played it on normal, getting the TDE was plenty hard and I can barely imagine doing so without
Keeping Fog Breath around for a long time
Learning and keeping focus
Realizing that pierce is godly (easy to assume when it's given to you)
Getting/keeping Freikugel (or is that given to you like Pierce?)
Concentrating on a phys heavy build
Yes, keeping Pixie to make things easier
Creating a crazy build of Daisoujou
Potentially looking for advice on some late-game demons to reduce grinding for nothing
Figuring out Trumpeter's pattern if you didn't want to guess and check too much
Learning and keeping focus
Realizing that pierce is godly (easy to assume when it's given to you)
Getting/keeping Freikugel (or is that given to you like Pierce?)
Concentrating on a phys heavy build
Yes, keeping Pixie to make things easier
Creating a crazy build of Daisoujou
Potentially looking for advice on some late-game demons to reduce grinding for nothing
Figuring out Trumpeter's pattern if you didn't want to guess and check too much
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
Falling floors, level that damage your HP for every step you took, teleport tiles.... Like I said, thinking about it, I am now pretty shocked myself, hahaha. But you know, Daisoujou helped massively with his meditation... with him, all you need to get through Amala is just sheer determination I guess, hahah.
TurnipFritters
Member
I mean... it's a Shin Megami Tensei game. I do hope it's more inline with SMT2 rather than SMT1/3/SJ though and there's more interesting things going on than just "Oh yeah, Walter is Chaos Hero and Jonny is Law Hero" which is what it looks like right now.
They also revealed like three new characters in Famitsu this week, so maybe one of them will strike your fancy.
SMT2 is available on iOS right now.
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