Braag
Member
What makes you think everyone wants to game on PC?
Phil Spencer admits defeat in console space, and doesn't think great games would help Xbox's market share.
- Thread starter FunkMiller
- Start date
mitch1971
Member
That's how I've always seen this buy out.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Agreed. They've said as much with their PR.
sainraja
Member
It is what helped the PS3.
Luigi Mario
Member
Friendly reminder that Don Mattrick never made delusional comments like this:
"But this idea that if we just focused more on great games on our console, that somehow we're going to win the console race, I think doesn't really lay to the reality of most people. Like 90% of the people every year who walk into a retailer to buy a console are already a member of one of the three ecosystems, and their digital library is there."
"But this idea that if we just focused more on great games on our console, that somehow we're going to win the console race, I think doesn't really lay to the reality of most people. Like 90% of the people every year who walk into a retailer to buy a console are already a member of one of the three ecosystems, and their digital library is there."
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
It should never be about winning, Phil. That is a console warrior mindset. It should be about providing amazing games to your fans and attracting new ones with said games.
Punished Miku
Gaslighter Pro: 16.7 Fireflops
The Gamecube got demolished as well. They make great games.
You guys are not acknowledging the brand consolidation consumers are demonstrating.
kiphalfton
Member
Yeah, but it had great games.
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RedC
Member
Within the context of his full statement that included making terrible mistakes in the generation where digital ecosystems became the majority, he is not incorrect.
Phil is referring to mindshare and digital libraries and any shift in the console space will not be dramatic as it once was in the past, but will be slowly, and surely.
Fair Enough.
Phil isn't admitting defeat in the console space, but it's evident they realized a while ago that it's unlikely to ever outsell Playstations in the near future. Hence why Phil came up with the idea of expansion and disruption to put Xbox in a place where they will eventually outgross Sony and Nintendo in the videogame market, even if they may never outsell them console-wise. It's the reason why Microsoft has finally given Xbox it's full backing, elevated them to being a pillar of the company, and invested billions of dollars including acquisitions to make it come to fruition.
Topher
Identifies as young
I wouldn't blame Spencer from moving on. I think he saw acquiring ABK as the apex of his career and now that is in serious doubt. And if he doesn't believe Xbox can compete with PlayStation and Nintendo by making great games then perhaps it is that time.
Punished Miku
Gaslighter Pro: 16.7 Fireflops
Literally some of the best.
Neff
Member
Nobody cares, Phil.
When Microsoft entered the console market they were obliged to ensure that good games were created for its console. And you know what? They used to. It doesn't matter if you win or not. You simply have to fucking compete.
You can't just sit there and exist without trying in such a competitive market for long.
Absolute 100% truth.
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sachos
Member
I don't know if his comment about not being able to turn things around with great games holds. Yeah sure people will not sell their PS5s but if you continually release great games you make people think about their decision before buying or you tempt them to get an Xbox on top of their PS5 isn't that why you sell Series S? As a great side console.
Also the comment about digital libraries and how they lost the most important generation, does that hold when Nintendo turned things around coming from the WiiU with 0 backward compatibility?
I don't know, that sounded way too defeatist to me.
Also the comment about digital libraries and how they lost the most important generation, does that hold when Nintendo turned things around coming from the WiiU with 0 backward compatibility?
I don't know, that sounded way too defeatist to me.
kyussman
Member
No fucking wonder Phil looked so uncomfortable during that interview.......he had this guys head up his arse.
alphachino
Member
First time I've seen Phile not lyin', but now I clearly see that he is delusional as fuck. Delusions are basically lies to yourself... so I guess I have to take it back. He's still a liar.
kyliethicc
Member
Ass of Can Whooping
looks like our corporate daddy jimbo won the war
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
New tactic... give up...
He's had a rough time lately. I'm not surprised.
feynoob
Banned
Sleepwalker
Member
Plus the goal shouldnt be making people sell their playstations, why would it be? You build great games to make people want to own your console, not sell the other.
Make enough great games and ps players will feel tempted to pick up an xbox to play them. But of course if you release them on PC (included on a sub to boot) too then yeah that might make it all pointless.
I remember having a gamecube and a PS2 and still getting an xbox to play Halo, or having a 360 because I wanted to play Gears of war, and because online was better, despite having a ps3. Truth of the matter is there is very little reason nowadays to own an xbox, I havent used mine to play anything in forever. Since Hivebusters DLC I think.
Make enough great games and ps players will feel tempted to pick up an xbox to play them. But of course if you release them on PC (included on a sub to boot) too then yeah that might make it all pointless.
I remember having a gamecube and a PS2 and still getting an xbox to play Halo, or having a 360 because I wanted to play Gears of war, and because online was better, despite having a ps3. Truth of the matter is there is very little reason nowadays to own an xbox, I havent used mine to play anything in forever. Since Hivebusters DLC I think.
SCB3
Member
Usually I agree with Phil Spencer but not on this, if this was the case, why do I own a PS5, Xbox Series X and a Switch alongside a Steam Deck and gaming PC? So I can play all these great games and not be limited by a chosen ecosystem
I kinda see where he thinks Xbox is going, Game Pass being what they're pushing as the "Netflix of gaming" and having a Console that can stream or play these games to the casual market, will it work out in the end? I don't think so, but its telling that the single 2 Xbox games I'm looking forward to are Starfield and Forza and they have nothing else, even indie games are now being purchased more on Steam cause of the Steam Deck, looking elsewhere:
Halo has failed, Gears is non existent and Redfall is a massive flop, this is why they're buying Activision/Blizzard, GAAS is the end goal and people need to realise that this isn't the 360 era anymore
I kinda see where he thinks Xbox is going, Game Pass being what they're pushing as the "Netflix of gaming" and having a Console that can stream or play these games to the casual market, will it work out in the end? I don't think so, but its telling that the single 2 Xbox games I'm looking forward to are Starfield and Forza and they have nothing else, even indie games are now being purchased more on Steam cause of the Steam Deck, looking elsewhere:
Halo has failed, Gears is non existent and Redfall is a massive flop, this is why they're buying Activision/Blizzard, GAAS is the end goal and people need to realise that this isn't the 360 era anymore
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Nydius
Member
Yep, which is why I called out his ridiculous comment about competitors and their "discreet focus" on deals making it "hard to be Xbox".
When Xbox does it, it's: "We're the underdog so we have to do it and it's okay! Gaming for everyone!"
When Sony does it, it's: "They're trying to erase us from existence! We're just a small group of gamers trying to survive! Waaaaaa!"
The hypocrisy is stunning. It was MICROSOFT who began the trend of moneyhatting timed exclusive multiplatform DLC content. Up until they inked that deal with Activision for 360 to get timed COD DLC, that practice didn't exist. When Activision (and Bungie) followed the money and swapped to timed exclusive deals with the larger market share PS4, suddenly Microsoft and their fans were acting like Sony invented the devilish practice.
phant0m
Member
so, my series s that i use to play gamepass stuff is sufficient, cool
honestly, i've suspected this for awhile. MS doesn't want to sell consoles and control marketshare, they want to sell game pass subs. i suspect XSX/S will be the last generation of Xbox living room consoles.
it makes sense from a business perspective. they don't make money on hardware, and making game pass available to as many people as possible outside the "xbox gamer" is a far more profitable move.
they might try a switch/steam deck like device for portable/streaming use but i doubt it
honestly, i've suspected this for awhile. MS doesn't want to sell consoles and control marketshare, they want to sell game pass subs. i suspect XSX/S will be the last generation of Xbox living room consoles.
it makes sense from a business perspective. they don't make money on hardware, and making game pass available to as many people as possible outside the "xbox gamer" is a far more profitable move.
they might try a switch/steam deck like device for portable/streaming use but i doubt it
SkylineRKR
Member
Just great games is enough for them I think. MS has the financial power, they can afford all the marketing they want, they can produce, they are a well known brand. I think what they need are great games that make people want an Xbox, maybe as their only system, maybe next to their PS5. But with great games they will move more units. They are focused on taking over Sony, which is ofcourse in MS DNA as this was always their MO in the past. They fail to see they can also sell their system to PS5 owners if the content is there. With some great games I can see more people buying a Series no matter what else they have in the living room.
I own both systems actually, but right now I don't use the Xbox and let GP expire, exactly for the reason Xbox is severely lacking in killer exclusives right now. If Starfield is really good, I might resub or buy the game. Its not like i am impossible to reach for them.
fart town usa
Banned
What Phil said is obvious to anyone who just wants to play good games and doesn't play favorites when it comes to consoles. People getting big mad over his comments should do some soul searching. They should be relieved. You're finally off the hook and can stop the mental gymnastics to justify your bias.
Go take a walk in the woods/nature and gain some perspective.
Go take a walk in the woods/nature and gain some perspective.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
kyussman
Member
Don't say that dude....the Dishonored universe they created was good for so many more great games.
sigrad
Member
He never said making great games wouldn't help. He said making great games wouldn't cause someone to drop PS and go to MS. Watch the video .
Fbh
Member
While I can agree with some of it (specially the bit about loosing last gen being a big blow), I think he is underselling the importance of games.
The thing is though, it's not just about having good games but also about WHEN you release them. The first years are important, it's when most of the core audience will make their purchase decision, it's when you build momentum for the rest of the generation. You can't start releasing a steady stream of good titles like 4 years into a console gen and expect it will suddenly make everyone drop their current consoles and get yours.
He talks about Nintendo as if it was easy for them and they had guaranteed sales just because they are Nintendo. But do you remember the first year of the Switch Phil? Breath of the Wild, Mario Odyssey, Splatoon 2, Xenoblade Chronicles 2, Mario Rabbids.
Xbox has now fucked up 2 console releases. If they stay in the console race I hope they have learned that the titles must be there from the beginning and not in the form of CGI trailers for stuff that's launching in 5 years.
The thing is though, it's not just about having good games but also about WHEN you release them. The first years are important, it's when most of the core audience will make their purchase decision, it's when you build momentum for the rest of the generation. You can't start releasing a steady stream of good titles like 4 years into a console gen and expect it will suddenly make everyone drop their current consoles and get yours.
He talks about Nintendo as if it was easy for them and they had guaranteed sales just because they are Nintendo. But do you remember the first year of the Switch Phil? Breath of the Wild, Mario Odyssey, Splatoon 2, Xenoblade Chronicles 2, Mario Rabbids.
Xbox has now fucked up 2 console releases. If they stay in the console race I hope they have learned that the titles must be there from the beginning and not in the form of CGI trailers for stuff that's launching in 5 years.
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GymWolf
Member
I'm sorry what?
You have
Halo
Gears
Forza
Elder scroll
Fallout
Starfield
Doom
Fucking cod
All the blizzard stuff (you know, small stuff like warcraft, starcraft, overwatch, diablo etc.)
And i'm probably forgetting a lot of stuff.
You have more stuff than sony and N combined dude, it is not sony or N faults if they fumbled halo and gears and you need time for the game from the new studios like fable, hellblade 2 etc.
Imagine all these brands firing on all cylinders.
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sainraja
Member
They also messed up with the name of the console. Most people, especially the crowd that fell in love with the Wii, did not realize the Wii U was its own console. They thought it was an add-on; made worse by the fact that when they first marketed or announced the thing, they showed only the tablet thing.
EDIT
What I am trying to say is, the Wii U had more "other" problems that may have led to its low sales than anything else.
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MasterCornholio
Member
This is pretty depressing. I really wasn't expecting this from the interview.
StealthGoblin
Banned
Complaining about doing deals when Microsoft have done that a lot and are now in the game of buying up major publishers.
Does he really think Final Fantasy would make a lot of difference?
Does he really think Final Fantasy would make a lot of difference?
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Laptop1991
Member
Still a stupid thing to say, making great games might cause someone to switch consoles, talk sense!.
Topher
Identifies as young
He's still downplaying making great games and as a platform owner, that's a ridiculously stupid thing to say.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
More console warrior tripe. Why does one have to sell to get the other? Don't you want "when everybody plays, we all win?"
FrankWza
Member
In other words, he just wants to play takeaway because he lost generation after generation and was consistently out maneuvered by PS and Nintendo. And now, instead of making games and creating and cultivating studios he wants to buy up publishers and IPs. I feel like someone has said that before. That's not what I would classify as an idea.
feynoob
Banned
This is pretty depressing. I really wasn't expecting this from the interview.
He's wrong and right at the same time, great games bring more people, but people inflate too much on exclusives as the sole card carrying.
The north american launch of Dreamcast was a perfect plan: Cheap console that had a game scoring 10/10 by everyone (Soul Calibur) the highest rated sports game (NFL 2K), the revival of a big franchise (Sonic Adventure) and other many great games with a steady cadence to be released week after week (Code Veronica just five months later) rather than wait six to twelve months after launch, a vastly superior experience to Saturn and even compared to the PS2 early on. That didn't stop the console from selling yearly even less than the Nintendo 64 was doing aligned, needless to say that the PS2 launch alongside the imminent launches of Gamecube and Xbox cemented their exit despite having a strong lineup, people were bitter by the way they pulled out of the market for a year and half and didn't have trust.
The WiiU, which lets face it, while the naming was bad it wasn't the cause of its downfall, instead it was that most of the Wii sales geared towards an audience that barely plays videogames and its third party support was going down in shovelware after 2-3 years, you can notice how it was outselling the PS360 by 2:1 and ended its career just 13-15 million ahead, the Wii customers had moved to mobile, while the Nintendo core public had moved mostly towards Playstation and Xbox over the generations. The central question was: Why would someone pay 300 dollars for something a little bit more powerful than its competitors at the twilight of the generation, with a poorly used concept of tablet controller and nearly zero third party support? Its exclusives sold in the 5-10 million range which was above the average for the PS360 minus Halo and Uncharted, Nintendo had massive attach rate yet that had little conversions into new customers.
Its like Android vs Apple, everyone knows that there Androids for all pockets and tastes yet in USA for example the vast majority goes to Apple regardless of all the cool stuff you can do with Android phones. For Xbox, being the utlitarian platform rather than creating the idea of "cool brand that every kid who wants to be cool begs for it" is what is working for them.
The north american launch of Dreamcast was a perfect plan: Cheap console that had a game scoring 10/10 by everyone (Soul Calibur) the highest rated sports game (NFL 2K), the revival of a big franchise (Sonic Adventure) and other many great games with a steady cadence to be released week after week (Code Veronica just five months later) rather than wait six to twelve months after launch, a vastly superior experience to Saturn and even compared to the PS2 early on. That didn't stop the console from selling yearly even less than the Nintendo 64 was doing aligned, needless to say that the PS2 launch alongside the imminent launches of Gamecube and Xbox cemented their exit despite having a strong lineup, people were bitter by the way they pulled out of the market for a year and half and didn't have trust.
The WiiU, which lets face it, while the naming was bad it wasn't the cause of its downfall, instead it was that most of the Wii sales geared towards an audience that barely plays videogames and its third party support was going down in shovelware after 2-3 years, you can notice how it was outselling the PS360 by 2:1 and ended its career just 13-15 million ahead, the Wii customers had moved to mobile, while the Nintendo core public had moved mostly towards Playstation and Xbox over the generations. The central question was: Why would someone pay 300 dollars for something a little bit more powerful than its competitors at the twilight of the generation, with a poorly used concept of tablet controller and nearly zero third party support? Its exclusives sold in the 5-10 million range which was above the average for the PS360 minus Halo and Uncharted, Nintendo had massive attach rate yet that had little conversions into new customers.
Its like Android vs Apple, everyone knows that there Androids for all pockets and tastes yet in USA for example the vast majority goes to Apple regardless of all the cool stuff you can do with Android phones. For Xbox, being the utlitarian platform rather than creating the idea of "cool brand that every kid who wants to be cool begs for it" is what is working for them.
Knightime_X
Member
If xbox leaves we're all fucked.
Arrogant phase of sony will skyrocket.
Psn $20 a month.
Games $80
There WILL be something hyper negative that will happen shortly after sony has a monopoly.
The same monopoly sony cried about with xbox and Activision.
I don't dislike sony at all, but I'm not a blind fool either.
Arrogant phase of sony will skyrocket.
Psn $20 a month.
Games $80
There WILL be something hyper negative that will happen shortly after sony has a monopoly.
The same monopoly sony cried about with xbox and Activision.
I don't dislike sony at all, but I'm not a blind fool either.
Jigsaah
Gold Member
Is this Phil's Don Mattrick moment? Holy shit I can't believe he actually said this.
Ok First off...PHIL. Regardless of what place you're in, you have a duty to provide the best games that's possible with the resources you have. Guess what...Microsoft has a fuck ton of resources that have been mishandled as far as I can tell. If you're not trying to compete with the best of the best in overall game experience then what are you doing!?
He literally sounds like he's giving up. Like he's tired or something. You're not even supposed to be in it for the console sales. Your should have been that you are in it to create great games for the most amount of people. Now we understand that creating great games isn't even top priority.
Are you fuckin serious!?
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