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[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

It's funny to me hearing stories about the console in last place, which has traditionally struggled to secure third party exclusivity deals primarily because they're in last place, all of a sudden passing up on these huge exclusivity deals with blockbuster third party games.

Just strikes me as odd.

 

[pasterpl]

the most incompetent gaming CEO of all time

Isn’t that reserved for people who green light Bungie and Firewalk acquisitions and then decided to release Concord?

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Isn’t that reserved for people who green light Bungie and Firewalk acquisitions and then decided to release Concord?

No, it’s for the ones that turned the Xbox 360 into the Xbox One and Series consoles and can’t figure out how to Make Halo Great Again

From top dog to utter irrelevance in two generations

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Isn’t that reserved for people who green light Bungie and Firewalk acquisitions and then decided to release Concord?

you know what is ironc?
Phil Spencer's minions where celebrating: "now Sony is fucked without Call of Duty"
"Nice guy MS is over"
"the warchest is open"... etcetera

what PS has done is exactly what they had to do
(instead of blaming capitalism, Gen z or another company use of the 30% cut to hurt them)

to bad for them 100% success rate is not guarantee

 

[Nitty_Grimes]

You filmed your night with Phil?

Sitting at 66 on metacritic.

 

[pasterpl]

No, it’s for the ones that turned the Xbox 360 into the Xbox One and Series consoles and can’t figure out how to Make Halo Great Again

From top dog to utter irrelevance in two generations

You can milk series with same base story only for so long, Halo ended long time ago, just people didn’t want to accept it. Xbox one was shit follow up to x360, but one x was step in good direction and series x is excellent. Don’t forget the best deal in gaming - Gamepass. For all their mistakes, and they have made many, they are still selling consoles and and on track to become one of the biggest publishers in the world. It would be probably safer to release, dlc as separate games, remakes, and remasters but instead they went will lots of new/rebooted IP’s.

 

[pasterpl]

you know what is ironc?
Phil Spencer's minions where celebrating: "now Sony is fucked without Call of Duty"
"Nice guy MS is over"
"the warchest is open"... etcetera

what PS has done is exactly what they had to do
(instead of blaming capitalism, Gen z or another company use of the 30% cut to hurt them)

to bad for them 100% success rate is not guarantee

Ironic - nope, never head of this thing, is a game, publisher, developer, some sort of software? I am lost now ?s

Aren’t you the one saying that that deal have no chance of happening (lots of financial experts on this forum, especially blue ones, were repeating this like a fact, reality crushed them)? Also didn’t this forum said that switch will be flop (were you one of them??)/s

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

they are still selling consoles and and on track to become one of the biggest publishers in the world.

They are effectively giving up on consoles. Series is selling worse than the One, and are now third party.

The only reason they are one of the biggest publishers in the world is because their Windows, Office, and Cloud money allowed them to.

Phil is the biggest failure in the entire industry by far. He’s done nothing but fail upwards

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Aren’t you the one saying that that deal have no chance of happening (lots of financial experts on this forum, especially blue ones, were repeating this like a fact, reality crushed them)? Also didn’t this forum said that switch will be flop (were you one of them??)/s

oh boy, oh boy

go and read that thread. you will be surprised.

 

[pasterpl]

They are effectively giving up on consoles. Series is selling worse than the One, and are now third party.

The only reason they are one of the biggest publishers in the world is because their Windows, Office, and Cloud money allowed them to.

Phil is the biggest failure in the entire industry by far. He’s done nothing but fail upwards

Yes, the gap is widening, but only recently (before it was mostly Series X doing better than xbone, one good quarter and it will start to close with likes of gears. New Forza horizon and multiple other games this and next year etc. - this is my prediction. I still think that series will reach 50-60ml units sold.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

They’ve never been weaker, what do you mean?

Platform is essentially dead in retail, customers don’t buy games, they have no exclusives pulling new people into the platform, they have no mid-gen refresh to give them a boost, their cloud service is still in beta and worse than all other options and they’ve started using Geforce Now for PC Gamepass, they have no streaming device, no VR, no handheld, they plan to include Steam on their next console which essentially kills off Microsoft Store. Probably more things to list but it’s enough for now.

How exactly are they in a much stronger place now?

They are in position to dictate a lot of things in industry now.

Why do you think Playstation is pursuing GAAS strategy??

Cause Playstation doesn’t own games that basically fund their operations and all these deals.

Whatever weakness you mentioned are basically forum noise. It only applies if console is everything. If it were, xbox would be strengthening that instead.

 

[ShaiKhulud1989]

Same guy decided to skip a Chinese no-names from miHoYo, so It’s clearly a talent to fail in such precise and industry-wide ways.

Phil is a gem. For Sony.

 

[drganon]

They are in position to dictate a lot of things in industry now.

Why do you think Playstation is pursuing GAAS strategy??

Cause Playstation doesn’t own games that basically fund their operations and all these deals.

Whatever weakness you mentioned are basically forum noise. It only applies if console is everything. If it were, xbox would be strengthening that instead.

 

[Astray]

Phil Spencer always has the weirdest flex to boast about.

Like someone saying "I could had bought a lot of Apple stocks back in the late 70s, but I thought didn't needed those."

He always likes to talk up the times he was a loser in a transaction for some reason.

Never seen a loser get celebrated by the media so much tbh.

 

[Pedro Motta]

Phil Spencer doesn't know gaming and peoples tastes even if it smacked him in the forehead at the speed of sound.

 

[Physiognomonics]

Eh, they had an epiphany and restrained from acquiring Bungie in 2021, a smart decision looking at recent happenings.

Hey, nowhere I can find the source of this "high burn-rate" statement. We can see the document that they wanted to buy (or buy exclusivity with) Bungie, yes. But without any source the "high burn-state" is gaslighting after the fact from MS paid off propagandists, here the usual "The verge". I call bullshit here.

 

[DenchDeckard]

I would 100% dodge bungie if they came crawling back.

The studio is a mess and that's been obvious pretty much since destiny 1 launched.

 

[Nydius]

Yes, the gap is widening, but only recently (before it was mostly Series X doing better than xbone, one good quarter and it will start to close with likes of gears. New Forza horizon and multiple other games this and next year etc. - this is my prediction. I still think that series will reach 50-60ml units sold.

Must be nice living in your own delusional reality. In this reality, there is no chance that a console which has seen multiple quarters of massive year-over-year sales drops is going to reach 50 million sold.

You actually believe Forza Horizon is a system seller…

 

[The artful mincer]

God I hate Destiny.

In alternative timeline Bungie could have gonna on to build a multiplatform Halo Spritual successor but Noooo they had push this live service grind CRAP.

That theoretical franchise might have rivaled Call of Duty in popularity but instead we're stuck with this steaming turd.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Yes, the gap is widening, but only recently (before it was mostly Series X doing better than xbone, one good quarter and it will start to close with likes of gears. New Forza horizon and multiple other games this and next year etc. - this is my prediction. I still think that series will reach 50-60ml units sold.

Much of the Xbox Series sales were frontloaded due to the pandemic and the supply shortages of the PS5. When that supply and demand was resolved, we saw a massive fall in Series sales even with heavy discounting.

Xbox Series sales have flatlined and given rate and time, the difference will continue to grow. It will undoubtedly get *some* boost from GTA6 just like it did from CF25, but as more people who currently have X1 decide to get a PS5 instead, that gap is going to continue to grow.

What's also troubling for the Xbox Series is that the X1 got 7 years on the market, but the Series will get less time. The lack of an XSX pro model will also hurt that ratio.

It's really interesting to see how the PS5 gets a lot of hate for largely keeping pace with the PS4, which was the previous gen market leader, but people somehow defend the XBS significantly falling behind in units sold and pace of the X1, which sold less than half the units the PS4 sold...

When it is all said and done PS5 will have outsold the XBS by somewhere between 3-4x compared to the PS4 outselling the X1 by 2x.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I would 100% dodge bungie if they came crawling back.

The studio is a mess and that's been obvious pretty much since destiny 1 launched.

Microsoft would gladly pay 4 billion dollars to rescue the Halo brand at this point.

Bungie might never end up being a profitable purchase for Sony, but preventing a reunification might have been the biggest benefit for Sony.

Microsoft leaving the console market, which they clearly are, will net Sony billions more in annual revenue.

Microsoft buying Bungie or even just partnering with them to make a Halo 6 and maybe a Halo remake could have kept Microsoft in the console generation for another generation if not more. Instead, you're likely to see a Halo remake and maybe MCC and Halo Infinite on PS5 within the next 18-24 months. That's a drastically different turn of events.

Imagine EA had purchased Visual Concepts instead of T2... Sometimes the moves that make you the most success are defensive ones.

 

[Physiognomonics]

Bullshit. Who is going to believe anything that comes out off his mouth?

 

[ArcaneNLSC]

Bullshit. Who is going to believe anything that comes out off his mouth?

I was going to say adamsapple but he prefers things that cum in his mouth

 

[SHA]

Xbox hasn't had its shit together since 2013.

It's Bungie and veteran devs leaving the industry, the industry besides Japan doesn't inherent what's made it great, I don't see the damage could go further than existing ips, not a big deal for newer ones.

 

[Team Andromeda]

Looking at BUNGiE now it was a good call. I thought Phil and Xbox's biggest regret was not getting Titanfall as an exclusive, though looking at the way the sequel sold maybe that was a good move
For me, the biggest Xbox mistake was allowing Team Ninja to go on the PS3, allowing Mass Effect to go to EA and turning their back on SEGA and From software exclusives

 

[BlackTron]

You can milk series with same base story only for so long, Halo ended long time ago, just people didn’t want to accept it. Xbox one was shit follow up to x360, but one x was step in good direction and series x is excellent. Don’t forget the best deal in gaming - Gamepass. For all their mistakes, and they have made many, they are still selling consoles and and on track to become one of the biggest publishers in the world. It would be probably safer to release, dlc as separate games, remakes, and remasters but instead they went will lots of new/rebooted IP’s.

Imagine saying the reason Halo lost relevance is because people got bored and not because Microsoft completely botched the release of TWO Halo launch games in a row, both MCC Collection and Infinite.

I'm sure the troubles of these games were completely arbitrary and happenstance to the downfall of the IP.

I think the fact that people tried to get past the issues and like these games at all, until reality set in, says a lot about the brand they squandered...it's analogous to how many people tried to give the Xbox brand itself a pass, hoping it could come back, just to have to give up eventually. Kinda happens when you've been trying and failing to like a brand for a decade.

 

[Sorcerer]

It's bonkers to think they could've had exclusivity, right after Bungie left them lmao.

Destiny 1 has so many issues, it's not hard to imagine why they passed on it. It's a incredibly fun game, but also so incredibly flawed.

You would think in terms of corporate mentality that they would overlook the flaws and take the game just based on the fact that Bungie did Halo. Odd to think Microsoft had actually the correct foresight in this situation. Or maybe Bungie is so difficult to work with it's just much easier to cut any ties with them.

 

[EverydayBeast]

Destiny was an opportunity to move off halo, I think people need to relax both Sony and Microsoft are selling consoles.

 

[SkylineRKR]

Looking at BUNGiE now it was a good call. I thought Phil and Xbox's biggest regret was not getting Titanfall as an exclusive, though looking at the way the sequel sold maybe that was a good move
For me, the biggest Xbox mistake was allowing Team Ninja to go on the PS3, allowing Mass Effect to go to EA and turning their back on SEGA and From software exclusives

A lot of mistakes were made about halfway through the 360 era. They had a rather diverse portfolio back then, and some second parties. They could've done more to secure IP or studios but instead cut ties with nearly everything except for their pillars Halo, Gears and Forza. Worse, they doubled down on Kinect. This cost them as eventually they tried to focus on gaming again but they lost a ton of share by then and they basically never recovered. In hindsight I think MS should've sticked to their guns way back. The Xbox brand was in a good place.

Also, it isn't really on the nose but next to some obvious games such as Wukong, quite a bit of other games skip Xbox such as the Capcom collections, shmups and GG Strive wasn't available until after 2 years. This is a hardcore userbase thats willing to spend. 360 was actually the place to be on this front for a while.

 

[adamsapple]

Hey, nowhere I can find the source of this "high burn-rate" statement. We can see the document that they wanted to buy (or buy exclusivity with) Bungie, yes. But without any source the "high burn-state" is gaslighting after the fact from MS paid off propagandists, here the usual "The verge". I call bullshit here.

Both the news that they wanted to buy, but they saw the burn-rate, come from the same article and set of FTC emails.

If you believe one line from the article, why not the other?


edit: Here is the exact quote from the leaked document:

Bungie: “Top-tier AAA first-person shooter developer and publisher, with proven track record of creating new long-lasting franchises” / “Company is known for its high burn-rate”

The Kotaku artcicle has it transcribed, they don't have pictures of the emails in their article, take it for what it's worth. Or feel free to call Kotaku a paid off propagandist, whichever makes you feel better.

 

[akira__]

Why is nobody asking him, nor is anyone asking here for answers on the wukong curfuffle.

We had adamsapple and others demanding answers from sony and the wukong dev.

Where is that same energy for answers from to the savior of xbox gaming?

 

[Physiognomonics]

Both the news that they wanted to buy, but they saw the burn-rate, come from the same article and set of FTC emails.

If you believe one line from the article, why not the other?


edit: Here is the exact quote from the leaked document:



The Kotaku artcicle has it transcribed, they don't have pictures of the emails in their article, take it for what it's worth. Or feel free to call Kotaku a paid off propagandist, whichever makes you feel better.

Show me the image of the PDF (or something) document like when they list Bungie and its description. Why only a "journalist" quote for that one? Yey I'll take it as bullshit coming from them. Why not writing that in that description if that was deemed important? Why only on some obscure email?

 

[Moriarty1889]

Just one of the many poor decisions MS has made under Phil. Destiny could have been their IP alone and an additional sci fi shooter to go alongside Halo. They would propably have been working on a legitimate Halo sequel as well after Destiny 2. Instead Phil’s incompetence showed once more. This man has only had more games cancelled or lost since taking over.

 

[adamsapple]

Show me the image of the PDF (or something) document like when they list Bungie and its description. Why only a "journalist" quote for that one? Yey I'll take it as bullshit coming from them. Why not writing that in that description if that was deemed important? Why only on some obscure email?

Because the original PDF was leaked accidentally and the version of it on FTC's website is heavily redacted now. It wasn't supposed to be public information.

You can see the currently hosted redacted version here:

https://files.cand.uscourts.gov/files/23-cv-02880_FTC_v_Microsoft/RX1141%20(Redacted).pdf

I cannot find any source which is still hosting all the unredacted documents.

If you don't believe the quotes from the article, then you shouldn't believe that MS ever wanted to re-acquire Bungie.

Kinda bizzarre the selective picking and choosing here.

 

[Unknown?]

adamsapple getting a nice check this month!

 

[adamsapple]

adamsapple getting a nice check this month!

Nah man, I'm just showing publicly available information. Anyone can find this with a few keystrokes.

 

[Fess]

They are in position to dictate a lot of things in industry now.

Why do you think Playstation is pursuing GAAS strategy??

Cause Playstation doesn’t own games that basically fund their operations and all these deals.

Whatever weakness you mentioned are basically forum noise. It only applies if console is everything. If it were, xbox would be strengthening that instead.

This is delusional, sorry. Microsoft is in no way dictating that GAAS is something one should pursue. They’re following trends and customer behaviour like everybody else. And besides Call of Duty they aren’t doing so great. And Call of Duty is everywhere.

You said Xbox was in a more powerful place, if you’re not talking about console there then you’re talking about Xbox as a digital platform, yes? A launcher unlocked from brand-specific hardware?

In that space they could do well, in theory. But how can they get people onto a hypothetical digital platform without exclusives?

I would say that it’s even more important with exclusives when all you have is a launcher. Look at Epic, Ubisoft. Look at TV streaming services. Exclusives is what gets anyone to go from what they already have to something new.

And Microsoft has already tried that with Microsoft Store. Didn’t work. They upped the stakes with Play Anywhere, syncing purchases between console and PC. Didn’t work.
That’s why they are on Steam now.

So what would be the selling point? How would they manage to pull people in to their digital Xbox platform/ecosystem?
Gamepass would be one way but to grow they would need to have it everywhere, and I don’t see that happening.

 

[azertydu91]

Because the original PDF was leaked accidentally and the version of it on FTC's website is heavily redacted now. It wasn't supposed to be public information.

You can see the currently hosted redacted version here:

https://files.cand.uscourts.gov/files/23-cv-02880_FTC_v_Microsoft/RX1141%20(Redacted).pdf

I cannot find any source which is still hosting all the unredacted documents.

If you don't believe the quotes from the article, then you shouldn't believe that MS ever wanted to re-acquire Bungie.

Kinda bizzarre the selective picking and choosing here.

And you can believe him he is an expert on that discpline ...Or dare I say art for him.
But seriously passing on Destiny 1 exclusivity I feel like at that point Phil deserves more L's in its name.

 

[Klayzer]

This is delusional, sorry. Microsoft is in no way dictating that GAAS is something one should pursue. They’re following trends and customer behaviour like everybody else. And besides Call of Duty they aren’t doing so great. And Call of Duty is everywhere.

You said Xbox was in a more powerful place, if you’re not talking about console there then you’re talking about Xbox as a digital platform, yes? A launcher unlocked from brand-specific hardware?

In that space they could do well, in theory. But how can they get people onto a hypothetical digital platform without exclusives?

I would say that it’s even more important with exclusives when all you have is a launcher. Look at Epic, Ubisoft. Look at TV streaming services. Exclusives is what gets anyone to go from what they already have to something new.

And Microsoft has already tried that with Microsoft Store. Didn’t work. They upped the stakes with Play Anywhere, syncing purchases between console and PC. Didn’t work.
That’s why they are on Steam now.

So what would be the selling point? How would they manage to pull people in to their digital Xbox platform/ecosystem?
Gamepass would be one way but to grow they would need to have it everywhere, and I don’t see that happening.

Can the Xbox diehards please pass me some of that shit they smoke? I too want to distort reality with headcannon.

 

[adamsapple]

This is delusional, sorry. Microsoft is in no way dictating that GAAS is something one should pursue.

Yes, no one try and link Concord to anything MS has done.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

This is delusional, sorry. Microsoft is in no way dictating that GAAS is something one should pursue. They’re following trends and customer behaviour like everybody else. And besides Call of Duty they aren’t doing so great. And Call of Duty is everywhere.

You said Xbox was in a more powerful place, if you’re not talking about console there then you’re talking about Xbox as a digital platform, yes? A launcher unlocked from brand-specific hardware?

In that space they could do well, in theory. But how can they get people onto a hypothetical digital platform without exclusives?

I would say that it’s even more important with exclusives when all you have is a launcher. Look at Epic, Ubisoft. Look at TV streaming services. Exclusives is what gets anyone to go from what they already have to something new.

And Microsoft has already tried that with Microsoft Store. Didn’t work. They upped the stakes with Play Anywhere, syncing purchases between console and PC. Didn’t work.
That’s why they are on Steam now.

So what would be the selling point? How would they manage to pull people in to their digital Xbox platform/ecosystem?
Gamepass would be one way but to grow they would need to have it everywhere, and I don’t see that happening.

Getting everyone to their ecosystem is opposite of what they have been saying, wanting to deliver games where players are. Not the other way around.

Its mostly console warring to see this as last ditch attempt. I think this is something they had in mind for a long time, and have worked towards.

It does fly against conventional wisdom that one should own ecosystem and funnel everyone towards it. That also means PC wont get all the games its getting and every player would be required to buy all systems to get everything.

Again, something easily done if they want to. But I don’t think thats what they are gonna do.

 

[Fess]

Can the Xbox diehards please pass me some of that shit they smoke? I too want to distort reality with headcannon.

Microsoft should have another business update event. There is too much confusion. And Xbox used to be my main platform, so my negativity comes from disappointment more than anything else. At some point people need to wake up and realize that Microsoft ain’t doing what needs to be done as a platform holder anymore. Exclusives!

If they would have superior versions of all multiplats they would have a selling point. But this never happened. And once PS5 Pro is out Xbox will have inferior versions of not only multiplats but their own 1st party games as well… Let that sink in. If you’re not on PC you should play Indiana Jones on PS5 Pro.

To be fair, Sony stumbles on exclusives too now. I don’t use my PS5, I use my PC. But at least they aren’t doing any ”One more thing…” announcements on big gaming events about releasing Astro Bot on Switch!

 

[Fess]

It does fly against conventional wisdom that one should own ecosystem and funnel everyone towards it. That also means PC wont get all the games its getting and every player would be required to buy all systems to get everything.

This only applies if you’re a third party publisher. Then you need to be everywhere, day 1 when the hype is maximized. All consoles, all PC launcher, all subscription and streaming services. Go where the players are as you say.

But Microsoft still act like a platform holder. It’s like they don’t know what they want to be or don’t dare to announce a new strategy.
I think it’s disrespectful tbh. They should announce that games will come to all platforms if that’s the end goal. There are people who spend money on both hardware and software for Xbox thinking it’s an investment.

 

[Moses85]

Microsoft is soooooo

 

[akira__]

Nah man, I'm just showing publicly available information. Anyone can find this with a few keystrokes.

Publicly? Or from a certain discord?

 

[adamsapple]

Publicly? Or from a certain discord?

Unless the FTC website is exclusively hosted on discord, publicly. Mr Alt-man.

 

[ZoukGalaxy]

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

Water over the damn, as they say.

 

[Mr Moose]

Yes, no one try and link Concord to anything MS has done.

MicroSoft were so scared of Concord that they bought Activision, so they could have their Concord at home (Overwatch).

 

[Pallas]

MicroSoft were so scared of Concord that they bought Activision, so they could have their Concord at home (Overwatch).

Well imagine they are taking a gigantic sigh of relief when Concord launched.