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[cormack12]

No you're not supposed to insult random people or spout racist stuff, it's a place where people come to be entertained, not annoyed by people being dicks. It's just like any private place like restaurants or night clubs : you can come with your friends and tell them whatever you want. But if you're consistently annoying other customers, you get kicked out.

Underground
The underground is where anything goes. You may be a undeground gamer if:

• You are the "human beat box" or "trash-talking chucklehead" (and proud of it).
• You rock with extreme vengeance and other totally intense buzzwords.
• People shout "griefer!" and you say "Yeah, whaddaya want?"
• You take out whole teams online. Including your team.
• You'd rather get revenge than win

Gamer Zones

Gamer Zones are titles that all Xbox Live members on Xbox 360 could choose from to show the community what kind of gamer they are. The feature was available to allXbox Live members (Silver/regular and Gold) on the Xbox 360 's Xbox Guide, more precisely: before the Xbox 360's User Interface was...

xbox.fandom.com

Besides, the overarching topic is stupid. Of course it's free speech. Phil is talking about public etiquette. If I can join a party and call someone anything I want then yeah there is free speech. If it's against a ToS/CoC then if I am reported I can have account sanctions placed on me.

Some players (not me) like trash talking and hurling abuse. Who am I to police how they get their motivation/enjoyment? If they want to rage at each other or hurl abuse then power to them. IDGAF. There is a mute button and there is a retreat of private parties.

I have to question how much of an issue this actually is on console though. Very rarely do you get people in public chat now anyway.

 

[ResilientBanana]

Why are people surprised? You can't do this shit on any network. Once reported you get suspended anywhere.

 

[zenspider]

Some of you guys are really obsessed with labeling everything "SJW". There's nothing new about all of that, Xbox Live never was a free speech platform, it's in the terms of use (that nobody read). No you're not supposed to insult random people or spout racist stuff, it's a place where people come to be entertained, not annoyed by people being dicks. It's just like any private place like restaurants or night clubs : you can come with your friends and tell them whatever you want. But if you're consistently annoying other customers, you get kicked out.

I agree there is a lot of knee-jerk SJW scapegoating we should be mindful of, but c'mon now. Xbox Live has been a thing for nearly two decades now, and now this is an issue?

Even if you want to argue it's always been like this, the real issue is selective reinforcement. This is clear as day on Twitter and Facebook, and I imagine Microsoft is following a similar standard.

This is not the tack the video game industry took in the Joe Leiberman and Jack Thompson days - they are protected by free speech, but their users are not?

We should be careful not to play Chicken Little with the SJW movement, but fuck if we should let corporations run roughshod over the principles of free speech because they are "private entities". Nobody in 1776 could imagine the level of influence corporations would have over public discourse today.

 

[sevoro]

Free speech means the government allows your free speech, it doesn't mean others have to allow it. It's why you can get fired for opinions from companies and what not.

 

[PhillMeCream]

Well after party chat was introduced, it hard to find someone using a mic. Personally I like hearing that toxic stuff. It don’t bother me, you can block/mute them, leave the party. I feel like kids these days isn’t mentally strong because their parents shielded them

 

[deriks]

Remember Demolition Man when no one could curse or you will get a notification? There it is


/\ way funnier

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

What a weird way to frame it. NeoGAF is also not a free-speech platform (in the sense that you cannot say anything), but of course when you put it the way Phil did, it's going to raise eyebrows.

 

[Woo-Fu]

Add Phil to the list of people who don't use the term 'free speech' properly. Microsoft isn't the government, Phil. At least not yet.

 

[quickwhips]

They should allow it between friends.
No need to cut banter altogether.

I’m sure your friends aren’t going to report you.

 

[nowhat]

Add Phil to the list of people who don't use the term 'free speech' properly.

I agree, "Xbox Live is not a platform" would make more sense.

 

[Panajev2001a]

They run a closed platform, they have to set standards and 'protect' people under their umbrella. It's a moral responsibility.

Glad you approve of Sony censorship and moral stance after all... oh wait... .

 

[Panajev2001a]

So they’re not a free speech platform, this makes them a publisher, right? Does this mean they will be held responsible and liable for all speech/content produced by users using XBOX Live?

Certainly this could be used against the company... weird statement...

 

[ABrokenToy]

Man I remember this happening and it was awesome!

 

[Vawn]

People don't understand what free speech is. It doesn't give you the right to go anywhere you want and say whatever you want. You are still subjected to the rules of the individual establishments you are in.

 

[bobone]

The reign of terror bestowed upon us from the Snowflakes makes me angry. If you're scared, go to church!

Oppressive people without souls are afraid of church. And afraid of truth in general.

 

[Hypereides]

I miss the days when all you had to do was mute or block someone. All of this monitoring seems really unnecessary.

 

[CRON]

While I'm all for the simple action of just muting and blocking problematic people, in the defense of people with this logic, I've never had a pleasant experience with voice chat at all. In my years and years of online gaming, I've never heard any voice chat that didn't devolve into awkward name-calling, even more awkward attempts at trash talking, or people with zero social graces being so distracting from the actual gameplay.

I think the better choice would be to have a mandatory pop-up when you first launch multiplayer modes, asking if you want to enable or disable voice chat from others.

 

[Boss Mog]

'Xbox Live Is Not A Free Speech Platform': Xbox Boss Promises New Features To Make Online Gaming Less Hostile

Xbox Live is becoming a safe space. Nice. :| I remember the good old days of Halo 2 and everyone talked so much shit online plus had fun. Good times. The future of gaming with SJW nonsense, safe spaces, and censorship is getting tiresome imo.

Made my next gen choice even easier than it already was.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

I wonder if this is a dog-whistle to keep the censorial zealots off Microsoft's back.

 

[Deleted member 752119]

Couldn’t care less. Haven’t went into public chat in years and never will again. Not because of people being toxic, I just hate people and have zero interest in talking to randoms. Quality of my days is inversely related to how many people outside my social circle I have to interact with so chatting with randos makes zero sense for me.

But for those that do, the best option is to have different zones or whatever so people can pick a moderated one or a shit talking one if they want. No place for slurs and hate speech in any zone though. Swearing and shit talking are fine if problem can opt into it, but people can do that without resorting to racial slurs etc.

 

[NickFire]

"there’s going to be a fringe segment that doesn’t like the direction we go."

I don't know man. Judging by console and some software sales numbers, I'd say the people who like MS direction are more on the fringe than those who do not.

 

[desertdroog]

In addition to having a mute button and using it, I thought Microsoft's algorithms also removed people from your roster of possible matchups if you clicked on 'avoid them'.

This is more than policing speech on their platform, as they have tools for this. This is a regressive approach to social engineering.

I, again ask, they sell and publish mature rated games with murder and coarse language. Why not have an opt in or opt out mature channel with people who want to participate in said mature environment? As long as you are not saying anything illegal, such as imminent threat of violence, why can't I do the dozens with other players and talk about their mothers?

 

[Cert.in.Death]

Nor is the internet. And I am not surprised that major tech institutions are looking to reclaim their platforms and neuter the type of speech content made possible by their inventions.

Welcome to the age of the EULA.

 

[iconmaster]

I want a GTA san andreas: hot coffee lego play set

Kubrick can get you partway there.

 

[logicslayer]

In other news, water is wet.

 

[Deleted member 752119]

I, again ask, they sell and publish mature rated games with murder and coarse language. Why not have an opt in or opt out mature channel with people who want to participate in said mature environment? As long as you are not saying anything illegal, such as imminent threat of violence, why can't I do the dozens with other players and talk about their mothers?

Yep, I think most other than extremists would agree that having a mature channel you can opt into. As above it shouldn't allow hate speech, slurs, sexual harassment of chicks in the chat etc. as there's no place for that. People can swear and tell people how much they fucking suck, make your momma jokes etc. without getting into that shit.

 

[desertdroog]

Yep, I think most other than extremists would agree that having a mature channel you can opt into. As above it shouldn't allow hate speech, slurs, sexual harassment of chicks in the chat etc. as there's no place for that. People can swear and tell people how much they fucking suck, make your momma jokes etc. without getting into that shit.

I disagree on limiting speech outside of illegal speech. If the language is in mature media, like games and movies, then in a mature channel it should be allowed.

If you don't want to participate, then don't opt in.

 

[Space Runaway]

It already wasn't but if need be you can still be a total dick or say whatever so long as you don't do it in text or voice pms.

Though I don't feel like I've ever encountered the level or frequency of assholes most other people seem to. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Deleted member 752119]

I disagree on limiting speech outside of illegal speech. If the language is in mature media, like games and movies, then in a mature channel it should be allowed.

If you don't want to participate, then don't opt in.

Just have to agree to disagree. There's no place for calling people n words or f words or sexually harassing women in chat rooms etc., even if it was an opt in mature chat channel IMO. But not worth arguing over as it's not something either of us (or anyone else with strong opinions on the matter) is going to change our mind on. And it's not like any of us have any say in the matter as it's a private service rather than a government so free speech laws don't apply and they can allow or disallow anything they want. And as you note people can decide whether they want to spend money on the service or not. It's all moot for me as I'm never not in party chat even if I'm playing solo. Gamers (the self identifying, always online type, not just people that play games) are the last group of people I want to actually talk to.

 

[48086]

Oh good grief. I like Spencer a lot but this PR bs needs to stop. It's obvious he says crap like this so the blue checkmarks and "muh jounalists" will write positive stories about Xbox.

 

[Mitsuda Maniac]

Still have zero desire to interact with randos

 

[NickFire]

Still have zero desire to interact with randos

Don't worry. Soon enough the controls will be in place so every person is limited to saying a few acceptable positive comments when using voice chat. Then it will be like talking to just yourself. At least until someone is offended that not everyone gets as many positive accomplishments, and the game just issues post round participation trophies.

 

[Alx]

I, again ask, they sell and publish mature rated games with murder and coarse language. Why not have an opt in or opt out mature channel with people who want to participate in said mature environment? As long as you are not saying anything illegal, such as imminent threat of violence, why can't I do the dozens with other players and talk about their mothers?

It has nothing to do with maturity. Being an adult doesn't mean you're more tolerant towards jackasses. Night clubs are also restricted to adults, and it doesn't make you free to do or say anything you want while you're inside.
Any social activity means following social rules, it was always that way. Some people thought that through the internet they could avoid those because of anonymity, lack of physical presence or consequences, but reality is catching up.

 

[desertdroog]

It has nothing to do with maturity. Being an adult doesn't mean you're more tolerant towards jackasses. Night clubs are also restricted to adults, and it doesn't make you free to do or say anything you want while you're inside.
Any social activity means following social rules, it was always that way. Some people thought that through the internet they could avoid those because of anonymity, lack of physical presence or consequences, but reality is catching up.

Maturity doesn't infer polite interaction. Mature behavior means I am an adult and as long as I am not breaking the law, I can be as offensive as I feel the need to illicit a reaction out of my adversary.

In your club scenario, there are rules for decorum, and you choose to participate accordingly. However, there are other clubs that allow for different behavior, hence my point of opting out.

I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of Xbox Live allowing movies and games that may contain language against the Eula, yet not allowing users to engage in kind in a game that is both violent and requires competition.

For example: Tarantino's film's Pulp Fiction, Jackie Brown, Reservoir Dogs, etc... Are all available for rent or purchase from Microsoft's store to your Xbox. If you act/say anything like the characters in those movies in a game chat, it is forbidden. Even with other Adults in a violent shooter with blood.

I've pointed out that Live has tools for this limiting your exposure, yet somehow allowing an opt in channel is not something they will allow.

How can anyone reconcile consuming media on that platform with such offenses and not see the hypocrisy is beyond me.

 

[ph33rknot]

I want the equivalent of underground on Xbox live I want to be able to call someone a shit eating f@g

 

[iconmaster]

Don't worry. Soon enough the controls will be in place so every person is limited to saying a few acceptable positive comments when using voice chat. Then it will be like talking to just yourself. At least until someone is offended that not everyone gets as many positive accomplishments, and the game just issues post round participation trophies.

Nintendo ahead of the curve, as usual.

1. Pre-set online messages
2. No achievements

 

[Alx]

For example: Tarantino's film's Pulp Fiction, Jackie Brown, Reservoir Dogs, etc... Are all available for rent or purchase from Microsoft's store to your Xbox. If you act/say anything like the characters in those movies in a game chat, it is forbidden. Even with other Adults in a violent shooter with blood.

I thought gamers could make the difference between fiction and reality ? When you watch a movie character being racist, violent or pervert, you as the audience are not racist, violent or pervert towards anybody. Things are similar with video game characters (except that since it's an interactive medium, you may well be racist, violent or pervert, but towards fictional characters ; the debate is open whether that's acceptable or not, but at worst it's a victimless crime).
Interacting with other people is different though, because if you're racist, violent or pervert towards other players, then it's not about movie or game characters any more, it's about real people that will suffer from your attitude.

 

[desertdroog]

I thought gamers could make the difference between fiction and reality ? When you watch a movie character being racist, violent or pervert, you as the audience are not racist, violent or pervert towards anybody. Things are similar with video game characters (except that since it's an interactive medium, you may well be racist, violent or pervert, but towards fictional characters ; the debate is open whether that's acceptable or not, but at worst it's a victimless crime).
Interacting with other people is different though, because if you're racist, violent or pervert towards other players, then it's not about movie or game characters any more, it's about real people that will suffer from your attitude.

Getting someones goat to make them lose in a game is reality. Some have thicker skin than others, that is reality. Being offensive is not against the law, that is reality.

Microsoft is hypocritical to allow their members to be exposed to media like I mentioned, yet not allow them to interact in kind.

I remain unconvinced that this is a good way forward, and realize they are making rules that is hypocritical of their platforms service.

 

[Punished Miku]

Fine with me. I don't need my gaming chat to be like 4chan. My favorite was actually MiiVerse on Wii U. Just people being nice and chilling, talking about games, and sharing random drawings.

I can get my free speech content elsewhere. And you can do party chat with friends anytime and say whatever you want to each other and no one is ever going to know (except the NSA).

 

[Deleted member 752119]

I think some people are getting too hung up on the idea of banning words vs. how words are used. And I do think that matters and any rules enforced should be done some with contextual nuance (reviews by people before bans are given out, not AI auto bans etc.).

For instance, if there's a mature or whatever chat option people should be able to say fuck, ass, shit etc., to tell people they fucking suck and so on. But it shouldn't be ok for some asshole to tell a chick that comes on the chat that he'd like to fuck the shit out of her or to tell someone to go fucking kill themselves or to call someone the n word or so on.

It's abusive behavior that needs dealt with, not just use of language (slurs aside IMO).

 

[WouldYouKindly]

O im sorry im sorry i thought this was America

 

[ExpandKong]

Hey Microsoft go suck a butt cheek you doo-doo heads

oh great now i can’t use my Office 365 subscription

 

[Birdo]

I've had chat muted since last gen. I honestly don't know anyone who still uses voice chat in games anyway *shrug*

 

[DeepEnigma]

It always amazes me how after over two decades of online gameplay it's still so damn hard/impossible for most of the people out there to simply click that mute button...

It's rooted in conditioned ideologies of not about controlling what you hear, but controlling what others can say, comrade.

 

[Inspector 2211]

Free speech ends if you harm others. Simple as that.
Free speech doesn't mean you can say anything in public (game-chat is public). That is what spencer meant.

Some gamers should really grow a bit up and start respecting others.

This has nothing to do with censorship just with respect for others.

I remember playing against somebody and they said "the president should be assassinated". To which I responded, "you should be assassinated, you fucking faggot". Ahh, Freedom of speech is a wonderful thing.

 

[Deleted member 752119]

I've had chat muted since last gen. I honestly don't know anyone who still uses voice chat in games anyway *shrug*

Same. Even if I'm playing alone I don't want to hear randos. I don't play any team based competitive games and or do anything like raids that require communication unless playing with real life friends. My friends are all the same way. It's part of why public chat is so bad anymore is it's disproportionately annoying kids or assholes wanting to talk shit and be edgy to annoy and troll people etc. as everyone else is mostly in party chat.

 

[Boss Mog]

I understand banning for using slurs or making threats but what if you say "there's only two genders" in chat, is that banable? The way MS pandered with the pride month logo, I would probably say that it is.

 

[Jubenhimer]

Well at least he's honest about it. Unlike something like ResetERA or YouTube, who claim to support free speech, but do the exact opposite on a regular basis.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

So this is what has become of gay pride - it's used as a sledge hammer to erode our basic rights - I find this funny how they for their rights recognized because they enjoyed the benefits of free speech (which is a good thing) then that same group is used as an excuse to prevent other people from saying mean (often in a sarcastic/humoristic manner, say what you will about the quality of the humor).

So they’re not a free speech platform, this makes them a publisher, right? Does this mean they will be held responsible and liable for all speech/content produced by users using XBOX Live?

Well, at the moment these companies have the law behind them, online platforms are not considered in the same manner as the public space of old was (the police is not supposed to remove you from the public square because you say something that annoys them - unless obviously you are calling for violence or something of that nature, free speech has limits, as it should).

If I'm not mistaken some elected official wanted to make some adjustment to the laws, but I have no idea how practical it may be.

 

[spandexmonkey]

So this is what has become of gay pride - it's used as a sledge hammer to erode our basic rights - I find this funny how they for their rights recognized because they enjoyed the benefits of free speech (which is a good thing) then that same group is used as an excuse to prevent other people from saying mean (often in a sarcastic/humoristic manner, say what you will about the quality of the humor).

Well, at the moment these companies have the law behind them, online platforms are not considered in the same manner as the public space of old was (the police is not supposed to remove you from the public square because you say something that annoys them - unless obviously you are calling for violence or something of that nature, free speech has limits, as it should).

If I'm not mistaken some elected official wanted to make some adjustment to the laws, but I have no idea how practical it may be.

Senator Hawley Introduces Legislation to Amend Section 230 Immunity for Big Tech Companies - Josh Hawley

Sen. Hawley’s legislation removes the immunity big tech companies receive under Section 230 unless they submit to an external audit that proves by clear and convincing evidence that their algorithms and content-removal practices are politically neutral. Sen. Hawley’s legislation does not apply...

www.hawley.senate.gov

WHAT SENATOR HAWLEY’S BILL DOES

• Removes automatic immunity under Section 230 from big tech companies
• Gives big tech companies the ability to earn immunity through external audits
  • Big tech companies would have to prove to the FTC by clear and convincing evidence that their algorithms and content-removal practices are politically neutral
  • The FTC could not certify big tech companies for immunity except by a supermajority vote
  • Big tech companies would be responsible for the cost of conducting audits
  • Big tech companies would have to reapply for immunity every two years
• Preserves existing immunity for small and medium-sized companies
  • The bill applies only to companies with more than 30 million active monthly users in the U.S., more than 300 million active monthly users worldwide, or who have more than $500 million in global annual revenue

I hope it passes, fuck these companies.