D
Deleted member 848825
Unconfirmed Member
It always feels to me that they're pulling in multiple directions internally.
Phil Spencer: "You are going to see more of our games on more platforms"
- Thread starter Topher
- Start date
ToadMan
Member
I want MS to exit the gaming market altogether (because they're not a "hungry" consumer electronics gaming company - they're a cubicle dweller's company with money to burn) but that won't happen now, so the next best option is for them to entirely cease being a "first party". They are on the path, and while I'm impatient, they are actually going faster to third party status than I'd expected.
I say this because there is an immense amount of competition in gaming these days - Xbox is the weakest of the 3 consoles so it has to go. Either let someone else enter the market and challenge Nintendo and Sony, or let those 2 companies have it. As Spencer himself said - the gaming market isn't growing. With the lack of market growth, Xbox tried to take console market share from Sony and Nintendo - that failed. So there is only one option left - get out of the hardware business and make money through third party sales.
Between mobile, dedicated handhelds, PC, free to play, cloud, consoles, subscriptions etc etc etc there are more ways and places to game than ever. There isn't a market large enough to support AAA games on 2 "high performance" consoles, and Xbox is the weak link. Let that hardware die already so we can get back to viable major game releases again.
I mean people are spooging about the xbox show - those games are mostly multiplat anyway and that's how it should be given they came from acquisitions of third party publishers. So AAA gaming looks pretty healthy if those games are properly presented as multiplat instead of this subterfuge of pretending the non MS platforms don't exist. Take those games and market them properly - right now MS is fighting with one arm tied behind it's back because they aren't generating the hype they could if they pushed these games as available everywhere - that info always comes out later and almost apologetically.
MS must face the fact that "multiplat" isn't a dirty word for them if they want to make money from gaming.
If another consumer electronics company wants to get into the fray then fine - but they're going to have knock Sony and/or Nintendo out of the market to make it pay and that's how it should be. Companies that are hungry for revenue focus on producing popular content - Xbox's problem for years has been that is focused on gaming as a side-business but never needed to succeed because MS sugar was always there. ABK has upset that concept - it's too big to fail, but the quicker MS face this reality the quicker we can see where AAA gaming goes from here.
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djjinx2
Member
Releasing on other platforms makes MS 70% profit for little extra work.
As long as GamePass is relevant and they still make HW I will buy it if it's a good value proposition.
A handheld would pull me even more into that ecosystem.
Apart from Warriors everyone else will just play the games they like. On Xbox through GP, and via normal sales on everything else.
Why do certain posters see it as a stick to poke with? They get extra choice, MS makes extra money, and Xbox fans get all this "free" with GamePass.
This is the only way Xbox will coexist with Sony going forward, it's smart business.
As long as GamePass is relevant and they still make HW I will buy it if it's a good value proposition.
A handheld would pull me even more into that ecosystem.
Apart from Warriors everyone else will just play the games they like. On Xbox through GP, and via normal sales on everything else.
Why do certain posters see it as a stick to poke with? They get extra choice, MS makes extra money, and Xbox fans get all this "free" with GamePass.
This is the only way Xbox will coexist with Sony going forward, it's smart business.
ToadMan
Member
It's not just MS's decision to make -Sony and Nintendo get to choose what comes too.
I'd be wary of allowing these specific xbox branded titles onto my platform without assurances from MS that they are really third party and open for business across platforms.
After all, Sony mooted the idea of bread-crumbing old PS exclusives to PC as a way to entice purchases of PS hardware for newer installments.
Laughable perhaps, but if Sony believe that concept, and Halo / Gears are popular on other consoles, what's to stop MS taking them exclusive again in future installments? Exclusivity isn't just hardware based - could be cloud, storefront, subscription and so on. Risky for either Sony or Nintendo to accept that content onto their platforms today, without assurances about what happens with new content going forwards.
midnightAI
Member
I honestly don't think it's going to change anything at all between now and September-ish, I can't see many flooding to buy XBox's just because they have one good showcase. All it takes is Sony to show the Pro + a few new games and the ball is back in Sony's court.... If it even left
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Nintendo would never keep Sony in check.
I propose someone comes along to put the nail in MS coffin and keep Sony on their heels before anyone quits the industry. An industry led by Sony with 0 competition would not be great. That would be the same for any of these gaming companies.
HeisenbergFX4
Member
Xbox as a platform isn't going anywhere for at least one more generation but it will look different moving forward
I am convinced of this more than ever after this weekend.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Is the traditional console environment, I think you are right. we 100% have one generation left, so it's not happening for at least 6-10 years. Then I can imagine it just turning into PCs.
vaibhavpisal
Member
A major portion of console buyers are casuals who need to be convinced with marketing, hype and price cuts.
Better to let them buy whatever hardware they want, then sell them games on that system.
BlackTron
Gold Member
I've said it many times. Though at this point it would be bad because they just purchased half the industry (lol) fact is MS getting involved in consoles has caused massive damage to gaming over the years. We would have been lucky if they exited after 360. We would have still gotten the better tradeoffs in the brand like Halo games, and the new "ideas" they brought to the picture may have not matured to the extent they have today, which are far too late to undo, and tbh had catastrophic consequences.
lh032
I cry about Xbox and hate PlayStation.
most people will not buy game on gamepass.
vaibhavpisal
Member
Look at Japan.
Thats what happens when you don't release stuff people want to play, and force everyone to play "masterpieces".
DeltaPolarBear
Member
I doubt Xbox could quietly sunset. I fully expect the PC Xbox hybrid to be priced out of everyone's range, and the Xbox handheld being inferior to all the existing PC handhelds out there.
There way i look at it, MS gaming is getting the affairs in order for Xbox in time for its planned funeral. It makes it look busy, but the Xbox console has no future because those working on it know it themselves.
Better to go on your own terms than to be forced out.
Bumblebeetuna
Member
I will learn what exactly? You either don't understand what that forest saying means or you aren't following the conversation
Agreed and it's what GAF has been saying ever since that video. So its funny to now see it twisted as if he locked down exclusivity on all games after those four.
Killjoy-NL
Member
Maybe. But the same was said about streaming services last-gen and GP is a major factor to Xbox crashing and burning.
Moridianae
Member
They don't seem keen to do it, no. Helldivers maybe?
midnightAI
Member
Streaming only services, death of traditional consoles (this seems to be brought up every gen, yet here we are), digital only, Sony and Nintendo have to copy Gamepass, much was said that was proven incorrect.
Geometric-Crusher
"Nintendo games are like indies, and worth at most $19" 🤡
I understand that they are and aren't at the same time. I think MS is just holding the xbox hardware until December 2024, when they will announce the ''future of xbox'' basically anything that has a cpu will be called xbox or Microsoft Gaming.
They will saturate the market with multiple devices. spoiler it won't work
Laptop1991
Member
This seems obvious, if they are going to stick COD day 1 on game pass and lose the day 1 sales, MS will have to do this for revenue and they are already on PC and Xbox, so that means Sony and then whoever else, Microsoft already are a 3rd party publisher now and that will only increase i think.
GHG
Gold Member
Xbox consoles are dead.
From what it seems like, going forwards the hardware will be glorified PC boxes and will be made available from multiple manufacturers/partners. But what that means for people who have invested in purchasing games within the Xbox console ecosystem nobody knows yet, I think they are still working that part out and will be reluctant to share anything until they do.
drganon
Member
#sonynintendotoo
djjinx2
Member
As an addon to what I posted above,
MS should be looking at timed exclusives for some of their games.
This would still give Xbox hardware owners the feeling of needing to stay within the Xbox brand, whilst getting maximum revenue from elsewhere. Hell some may even invest in cheap Series S hardware instead of waiting (and if not still sell it to said people on PC/Nintendo/Sony/GFN/TV/Mobile)
MS should be looking at timed exclusives for some of their games.
This would still give Xbox hardware owners the feeling of needing to stay within the Xbox brand, whilst getting maximum revenue from elsewhere. Hell some may even invest in cheap Series S hardware instead of waiting (and if not still sell it to said people on PC/Nintendo/Sony/GFN/TV/Mobile)
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Js562
Member
Mr.Phoenix
Member
Now this is just not true... we can't have it both ways.
Before that announcement, this forum and gaming media in general was on fire with speculation that Xbox is going third party. Then Phil and co came out to address those concerns.
And in that thingy, he specifically pointed out that only these for games were coming and how that should not be taken as bla bla bal... then said a lot of underhanded stuff about growth.
These forums now became a place where some of us said that his delivery has raised more questions than answers, we kept saying... what does this "growth" mean. And a lot of others here were saying, "told you so, just the leaked four games are coming, nothing more" bla bla bla.
But then more and more rumors and leaks came, and more and more people said they just hearsay and mean nothing. Now that he has come out and said more of their library will be coming, people like you are making it look like this was how clear the message has always been. Which is just not true, because if it was, why was he still being asked about it?
Dr. Wilkinson
Member
Avowed and Perfect Dark on Switch 2, here we gooo!
Likely just Diablo IV and CoD on Switch 2 starting 2025. But I can dream!
Likely just Diablo IV and CoD on Switch 2 starting 2025. But I can dream!
Killjoy-NL
Member
That's not true though.
He put a lot of emphasis on "older games", "over a year old", "these are the plans today" and he said they would consider any Xbox game to go multiplatform "if it makes sense".
Anyone paying attention to these very important details knew what it meant:
All games are on the table after a time-window.
And given how Xbox hardware and software sales are flatlining, what he said could only mean that they were/are moving towards full 3rd party publishing.
Even during the Business Update.
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ToadMan
Member
You don't think Nintendo is capable? I think they are on the basis that Switch 2 should be a significant jump in power and features compared to Switch, and Nintendo still have many beloved and genuinely exclusive franchises. They also have a massive install base and strong third party support. Now Nintendo have been here before and fumbled the win, so lets hope they learned from that.
Projecting forward to the end of this year and beginning of next - the "window" for PS5 Pro and Switch 2.
Forget us here on Gaf - I'll buy a Switch 2 and PS5 Pro if they come and I'd anticipate most gamers on a forum like this would too assuming they can deliver up to their first party quality.
But average consumers wont do that - they'll buy one or the other for at least a while.
If Switch 2 is a good performance bump, and it comes with the promise of major Nintendo franchises around and/or near launch, PS5 Pro is in trouble because Switch 2 is the new hotness consumers will spend on. Maybe even those PS4 hold outs jump that way rather than PS5.
On the other hand, if Switch 2 has an anemic launch lineup or isn't a decent bump in power, while PS5 Pro is available at Christmas with some big Sony first party to show it off, people will get that (or a price reduced PS5) and wait on titles to release for Switch 2 before jumping in. Either way, Sony and Nintendo are carving up the revenues available - people rarely double dip on third party stuff even if they end up owning multiple platforms.
And then there's PC, Mobile, cloud and the various ways to game that already compete with Sony and Nintendo now. There's more than enough competition for gaming revenues without an xbox replacement coming along - but if some other consumer electronics wishes to try, by all means good luck to them.
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ToadMan
Member
Keep them in the game. Microsoft needs to stay
Why?
EDIT: Oh and MS will be staying. But not as a first party.
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Frwrd
Member
I thought it was Phil Spender lol
aliadiere25
Member
Negotiator101
Member
Well you see there's two sides to this, one is Xbox is living on borrowed time, Gamepass not sustainable, not long left in the industry yada yada yada. Then there's the other side, Gamepass Day 1 for too many games to mention (First and Third party). One of the best games Showcases in recent memory, new revised versions of current hardware and yet more confirmation of next-gen hardware on the way
Yeah doesn't sound like a brand in decline to me.
violence
Member
Sony beat competition with huge coffers.
Negotiator101
Member
Philly "cheesesteak" Spencer
Bumblebeetuna
Member
My point exactly, friend. Like I said before, you either don't understand what that forest saying means, or you aren't following the conversation.
See, and the rest of this is just disingenuous nonsense. You make it seem like a small minority of people were claiming more games were coming while "lots of others" were claiming it was just those first four games when the reality is a vast majority of people understood those four games were just the beginning. I don't know of anyone claiming the rumors and leaks of other games are "hearsay and mean nothing".
And yes, this was always how clear the message was. You know this, you were in that thread that day when they had the business update that the clip was from. So was I, and I said these four games were just the start. Here is what you and the Lost shill were saying.
So at the time, it was "omg fire them, they can't be transparent about anything!" but now it's like omg they were totally transparent and Phil literally made a blood oath that these four games were it.
Wait, so at the time, they never said only those four games, but now, he "specifically said only those four games are coming"?
Who is the one trying to have it both ways here?
Moridianae
Member
I mean, if you spend $80 billion on buying out publishers, releasing one game(Starfield) and it does nothing for your growth, Game Pass hasn't grown in subs, you're in a bit of a pickle with the brass up top.
Thats where all this is coming from. Microsoft top, not Xbox.
This doesn't also include missteps like Xbox One in 2013 reveal, or the two-power level systems this time, which has resulted in..2...maybe 3 or 4 games that don't come to Series right away because they have to spend MORE MONEY and time to figure it out for Series S.
So you end up with games like Baldurs Gate 3 or Wukong being inadvertent PS exclusives for an indeterminate amount of time, by your own doing with the two systems.
Thats where all this is coming from. Microsoft top, not Xbox.
This doesn't also include missteps like Xbox One in 2013 reveal, or the two-power level systems this time, which has resulted in..2...maybe 3 or 4 games that don't come to Series right away because they have to spend MORE MONEY and time to figure it out for Series S.
So you end up with games like Baldurs Gate 3 or Wukong being inadvertent PS exclusives for an indeterminate amount of time, by your own doing with the two systems.
Vroadstar
Member
My point exactly, friend. Like I said before, you either don't understand what that forest saying means, or you aren't following the conversation.
See, and the rest of this is just disingenuous nonsense. You make it seem like a small minority of people were claiming more games were coming while "lots of others" were claiming it was just those first four games when the reality is a vast majority of people understood those four games were just the beginning. I don't know of anyone claiming the rumors and leaks of other games are "hearsay and mean nothing".
And yes, this was always how clear the message was. You know this, you were in that thread that day when they had the business update that the clip was from. So was I, and I said these four games were just the start. Here is what you and the Lost shill were saying.
So at the time, it was "omg fire them, they can't be transparent about anything!" but now it's like omg they were totally transparent and Phil literally made a blood oath that these four games were it.
Wait, so at the time, they never said only those four games, but now, he "specifically said only those four games are coming"?
Who is the one trying to have it both ways here?
Bumblebeetuna
Member
What exactly is being deflected? Please elaborate, should be funny
BlackTron
Gold Member
Bingo. This is the most direct way to say it.
Vroadstar
Member
Yup. It's like, let's all gather 'round and celebrate the grand finale of the Xbox journey.
But wait, don't forget the dramatic exit 
Taur007
Member
not worried at all, even with the rumors I still doubt you will see any identity Xbox game launch on PS (no halo, gears, forza, fable). most will be live service (sea of thieves, grounded) or Bethesda/Activision games that would've been multiplat anyway (doom, fallout, Indiana jones, cod).
obviously some XGS games will come, but i don't see something like Perfect Dark releasing on PS ever (could be wrong) but I just don't. Hell, I'm skeptical of starfield releasing on PS anymore unless they're going to announce it when the update releases. Here are my predictions
obviously some XGS games will come, but i don't see something like Perfect Dark releasing on PS ever (could be wrong) but I just don't. Hell, I'm skeptical of starfield releasing on PS anymore unless they're going to announce it when the update releases. Here are my predictions
- South of Midnight: Yes (1 year)
- Avowed: Yes (1 year)
- Perfect Dark: No
- Gears E Day: No
- Fable: No
- Indiana Jones: Yes (1 year)
- Hellblade 2: Yes (1 year)
- Blade: No (unless Disney works out pub deal? who knows)
- Clockwork Revolution: Yes (1 year)
- State Of Decay 3: No