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[MisterShine]

So as I'm closing in on the finale of the game (or what sure seems like it at any rate) I'm thinking of what I'll be rolling for my next game. Primarily I'm interested in how class affects the story and characters.

I'm debating between a Cipher and a priest of Eothas

Spoiler

for obvious reasons

. If anyone has any experience with either of these let me know what you think. I will be using Grieving Mother as a party member (I've heard she has unique dialogue with a Cipher, so I'm not really concerned about doubling up) but I won't be using Durance.

 

[HK-47]

I dunno, with just one talent and a chanter the reload times get pretty damn low. Getting a firing squad together stomps just about anything.

Also, Durance is a priest of Magran, and as such gets +10 to accuracy with arquebuses. Even the gods want you to roll with guns.

Nerf technological progress plz.

 

[Burt]

So as I'm closing in on the finale of the game (or what sure seems like it at any rate) I'm thinking of what I'll be rolling for my next game. Primarily I'm interested in how class affects the story and characters.

I'm debating between a Cipher and a priest of Eothas

Spoiler

for obvious reasons

. If anyone has any experience with either of these let me know what you think. I will be using Grieving Mother as a party member (I've heard she has unique dialogue with a Cipher, so I'm not really concerned about doubling up) but I won't be using Durance.

A heads up on the point of no return if you're interested: it's

Spoiler

going into the pit on the island

Tried to be as vague as possible. I didn't realize there was no going back and saved over anything before then,so I'm just trying to save people headaches.

I dunno, with just one talent and a chanter the reload times get pretty damn low. Getting a firing squad together stomps just about anything.

Also, Durance is a priest of Magran, and as such gets +10 to accuracy with arquebuses. Even the gods want you to roll with guns.

Psh, I literally soloed the hardest boss in the game with a bow and movement speed +3 boots. Can't kite if you gotta reload. Bows irrefutably superior.

 

[UncleSporky]

Man I'm in this one location in Defiance Bay and it's really making me think of Planescape.

I don't think the mere look of a place is that big a spoiler:

Wouldn't it be badass if they decided to straight up remake a location from one of their older games as part of an expansion? Call it something different, of course, but keep the layout and leave hints as to what it represents.

 

[Violet_0]

A heads up on the point of no return if you're interested: it's

Spoiler

going into the pit on the island

Tried to be as vague as possible. I didn't realize there was no going back and saved over anything before then,so I'm just trying to save people headaches.

heh, I figured as much. I swiftly turned around to complete the last few quests and finally start with the damn keep dungeon

 

[petghost]

I've actually been using Pallegina as a

Spoiler

pseudo rogue

its surprisingly legit

How do you mean? Bumping stealth and mechanics?

 

[vehn]

Early game question: When i go to Raedric castle, am I supposed to be able to go in peacefully? I could only batle the two guards outside, and now everyone inside wants to kill me too... seems pretty hard

 

[Ourobolus]

Early game question: When i go to Raedric castle, am I supposed to be able to go in peacefully? I could only batle the two guards outside, and now everyone inside wants to kill me too... seems pretty hard

Yes. There's a

Spoiler

Sewer entrance on the right side of the castle as you enter the map. I think you have to trigger the quest from Kolsc first though.

 

[_Clash_]

Early game question: When i go to Raedric castle, am I supposed to be able to go in peacefully? I could only batle the two guards outside, and now everyone inside wants to kill me too... seems pretty hard

Lot's of ways to get into the keep.

Keep adventuring and see what happens. Try something different

 

[Shake Appeal]

Early game question: When i go to Raedric castle, am I supposed to be able to go in peacefully? I could only batle the two guards outside, and now everyone inside wants to kill me too... seems pretty hard

You can avoid

Spoiler

every fight but one.

Spoiler

Actually, you can avoid that one too.

Durance got nothing on Hiravias, imo

gunsquad is a really effective strategy, btw. All my caster have improved accuracy with fireweapons and with the fast reload chant and a certain weapon-improving 3rd level chant my party wrecks most enemy encounter

Haven't picked up Hiravias or GM yet. I probably should go do that, but I've been strolling around Defiance Bay doing sidequests for about 10 hours now.

 

[JC Sera]

How do you mean? Bumping stealth and mechanics?

Her

Spoiler

flames of devotion can be applied to ranged weapons, you initiate with a massive gun/crossbow attack. And then because it was used before combat started, you still have 2 per combat flames of devotion left to switch out onto your sword. You can one shot some squisher enemies with this.

 

[Ala Alba]

How do you mean? Bumping stealth and mechanics?

I don't know what he meant, but I've found pretty decent success giving her an Arbalest and using Flames of Devotion to make it hit even harder. Use it to open the fight and take out a tough enemy. Kinda like a rogue's sneak attack.

 

[Dresden]

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/74639-all-the-requirements-not-met-options-are-almost-comical/

 

[Brojito]

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/74639-all-the-requirements-not-met-options-are-almost-comical/

People like that are why we stopped getting nice things.

"There's just like.... too many options, man."

 

[HK-47]

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/74639-all-the-requirements-not-met-options-are-almost-comical/

But where are the romances?

 

[jtb]

there aren't really that many skill checks in dialogue, I just think because it's turned on by default they're more noticeable.

I like how they integrated into environment cues, though.

 

[petghost]

Her

Spoiler

flames of devotion can be applied to ranged weapons, you initiate with a massive gun/crossbow attack. And then because it was used before combat started, you still have 2 per combat flames of devotion left to switch out onto your sword. You can one shot some squisher enemies with this.

Rad imma try it.

 

[UncleSporky]

By the way, on that note I would be interested in seeing how many unique interactions there are based on your race/class/stats.

Like for example, determine that to see the maximum number of unique choices, you need to be a cipher orlan with 14 might, 14 res, 14 int, etc.

So far in the game I don't believe I've seen any dialogue choices for constitution or reflex, a low number of might interactions (mostly cruel/aggressive/strong-arming etc.), and lots of perception, int and res which always seem useful and interesting.

Actually at this point I'd guess that 14 per, int, and res would net you the majority of unique dialogue options. I'm sure there are more really high requirements later in the game though.

 

[Blizzard]

You can avoid

Spoiler

every fight but one.

Spoiler

Actually, you can avoid that one too.

OK, big Act 1 spoiler questions about that location:

Spoiler

I found the vines on the left, but couldn't go anywhere without guards immediately attacking me. I didn't find the sewer on the right, but maybe I didn't activate a quest someone mentioned. When I went in the middle, guards attacked me on sight. Can someone please give me a slight hint about how I can avoid these on-sight attack situations? Like, maybe I need to have a certain race / background or talk to someone else?

 

[water_wendi]

OK, big Act 1 spoiler questions about that location:

Spoiler

I found the vines on the left, but couldn't go anywhere without guards immediately attacking me. I didn't find the sewer on the right, but maybe I didn't activate a quest someone mentioned. When I went in the middle, guards attacked me on sight. Can someone please give me a slight hint about how I can avoid these on-sight attack situations? Like, maybe I need to have a certain race / background or talk to someone else?

How i did it..

Spoiler

i went up the vines on the side. i did find some resistance but once i dealt with the few guards at the top i went inside without the entire keep alerted.

 

[Blizzard]

How i did it..

Spoiler

i went up the vines on the side. i did find some resistance but once i dealt with the few guards at the top i went inside without the entire keep alerted.

That's what I'm curious about. The earlier poster said it's possible to avoid

Spoiler

every fight but one, maybe even EVERY fight

.

 

[Violet_0]

I just (act 3 Raedric's Keep spoiler)

Spoiler

defeated Raedric again

and oh my the VI priest spell Spark the Soul of the Righteous is ridicules

 

[water_wendi]

That's what I'm curious about. The earlier poster said it's possible to avoid

Spoiler

every fight but one, maybe even EVERY fight

.

i didnt avoid every fight. Its probably possible just not the way i went.

Spoiler

i imagine going through the sewer would allow you to avoid fights getting in. The sewers arent empty though.

 

[Volodja]

That's what I'm curious about. The earlier poster said it's possible to avoid

Spoiler

every fight but one, maybe even EVERY fight

.

If you

Spoiler

pass through the sewers and the dungeon you can avoid all fights in the keep itself.

 

[goblin]

A heads up on the point of no return if you're interested: it's

Spoiler

going into the pit on the island

Tried to be as vague as possible. I didn't realize there was no going back and saved over anything before then,so I'm just trying to save people headaches.

Did you not get an autosave before the point of no return called

Spoiler

Burial Isle (PRE-ENDGAME)

?

 

[wolfhowwl]

OK, big Act 1 spoiler questions about that location:

Spoiler

I found the vines on the left, but couldn't go anywhere without guards immediately attacking me. I didn't find the sewer on the right, but maybe I didn't activate a quest someone mentioned. When I went in the middle, guards attacked me on sight. Can someone please give me a slight hint about how I can avoid these on-sight attack situations? Like, maybe I need to have a certain race / background or talk to someone else?

If you go in the top,

Spoiler

the Temple area will have a very obvious way to peacefully proceed through it

.

 

[JoeMartin]

So.

Not that I'm an asshole, but there are some guys wondering around defiance bay wearing nice gear, and aren't really important to the story. And you can pretty much just off them and take the gear with no real downside.

Is this intended?

 

[EndcatOmega]

By the way, on that note I would be interested in seeing how many unique interactions there are based on your race/class/stats.

Like for example, determine that to see the maximum number of unique choices, you need to be a cipher orlan with 14 might, 14 res, 14 int, etc.

So far in the game I don't believe I've seen any dialogue choices for constitution or reflex, a low number of might interactions (mostly cruel/aggressive/strong-arming etc.), and lots of perception, int and res which always seem useful and interesting.

Actually at this point I'd guess that 14 per, int, and res would net you the majority of unique dialogue options. I'm sure there are more really high requirements later in the game though.

A lot of checks are hidden- perception in particular can pop up randomly in otherwise ordinary dialogue and so can dex.

 

[Zeliard]

there aren't really that many skill checks in dialogue, I just think because it's turned on by default they're more noticeable.

I like how they integrated into environment cues, though.

I think it was honestly a mistake to have included visible skill checks and "attitudes" period in dialogue. They should have been disabled from the start, not just in expert mode or as optional triggers. Does it really enhance anyone's experience to see [Benevolent] before or after a statement so they know how to gauge it? And from what I've been told, those labels are often misleading, anyway.

It would feel to me like I'm an Elcor from Mass Effect, or something. Amused: Eder, you are off your rocker.

When you have those off, the only thing you get are the dialogue lines that you happen to qualify for, and nothing else. Every line you don't qualify for is completely hidden, qualifiers are hidden so you don't know which lines you've gained based on stats, and tone labels are hidden. This to me feels far more organic. Options are great, but I can't help but feel some are people are doing themselves a great disservice by feeling some need to leave that stuff on.

The additional benefit in this game in particular to removing all of that is that the high-stat lines aren't always the wisest choice. When you have it such that a stat-based line of dialogue is completely indistinguishable from a general line, I think it adds a great deal to the experience.

 

[jtb]

I think it was honestly a mistake to have included visible skill checks and "attitudes" period. They should have been disabled from the start, not just in expert mode or as optional triggers. Does it really enhance anyone's experience to see [Benevolent] before or after a statement so they know how to gauge it? And from what I've been told, those labels are often misleading, anyway.

It would feel to me like I'm an Elcor from Mass Effect, or something. Amused: Eder, you are off your rocker.

When you have those off, the only thing you get are the dialogue lines that you happen to qualify for, and nothing else. Every line you don't qualify for is completely hidden, qualifiers are hidden so you don't know which lines you've gained based on stats, and tone labels are hidden. This to me feels far more organic. Options are great, but I can't help but feel some are people are doing themselves a great disservice by feeling some need to leave that stuff on.

The additional benefit in this game in particular to removing all of that is that the high-stat lines aren't always the wisest choice. When you have it such that a stat-based line of dialogue is completely indistinguishable from a general line, I think it adds a great deal to the experience.

I totally agree, but I think it's a marketing move. Sometimes you gotta shove it in people's face "look how much depth/replay value this game has!"

 

[Blizzard]

If you

Spoiler

pass through the sewers and the dungeon you can avoid all fights in the keep itself.

If you go in the top,

Spoiler

the Temple area will have a very obvious way to peacefully proceed through it

.

Ah ok, so both of those would still have fights before you can go in. I was trying to figure out if there's a way to completely be pacifist in that area, basically.

 

[JC Sera]

One quick comparison to D:OS, I wish PoE had the same "choose how many quick save slots you have option"
by the sounds of it, it would have save a lot of people including myself, some time and salt

 

[water_wendi]

One quick comparison to D:OS, I wish PoE had the same "choose how many quick save slots you have option"
by the sounds of it, it would have save a lot of people including myself, some time and salt

Rotating quick saves should be in every PC game.

 

[Volodja]

Ah ok, so both of those would still have fights before you can go in. I was trying to figure out if there's a way to completely be pacifist in that area, basically.

Doubt it, in the

Spoiler

sewers there are undeads, so you can go through the entire area without killing any person, however.

 

[LurkerPrime]

Rotating quick saves should be in every PC game.

/signed

Of course, CD Projekt and the Witcher 1 went insane with this stance and made a new save file for every quick save. So don't do that either - options are key.

 

[Almighty]

Well if we are talking about things that should be standard in PC games I will add that a quit to desktop button is something that should be in all games.

 

[LurkerPrime]

Well if we are talking about things that should be standard in PC games I will add that a quit to desktop button is something that should be in all games.

/signed

You guys should be game development advisors.

 

[UncleSporky]

A lot of checks are hidden- perception in particular can pop up randomly in otherwise ordinary dialogue and so can dex.

I've got everything unhidden, I see "requirements not met" and the exact stat requirements. And I'm reloading to see alternate dialogue paths when possible. Just want to experience as much as I can.

 

[Chairman Yang]

Does it really enhance anyone's experience to see [Benevolent] before or after a statement so they know how to gauge it?

I prefer these on. The thing is, I haven't yet found a game that I trust to interpret dialogue correctly...that includes Pillars. An innocuous line could easily be interpreted as Stoic by the game but really be Cruel by my reckoning; rather than guessing at the intentions of the multiple designers and writers of the game, I'd rather that information be transparent and act accordingly. I know it's not organic, but I'm not looking for a realistic conversation simulator--in which case Pillars would be a bad choice anyways--I'm looking to shape the narrative with my choices. After all, the outcomes of the conversation options and dispositions are still unknown; all the tags do is let you know the inputs.

I also prefer having the skill checks revealed. Realistically, I'm probably only going to play this game twice, at most. It's an amazing game so far, and everything I dreamed of for an Infinity Engine successor, but still. Given that, I want to get an idea of the other paths I could have took, and see the richness of the conversation system, and not have to consult a Wiki after the fact to do those things.

Honestly, without those options, I'd enjoy Pillars much less.

 

[Burt]

Did you not get an autosave before the point of no return called

Spoiler

Burial Isle (PRE-ENDGAME)

?

Blaarrrrjaklpdfjlkanvlkdnl

I had put a completely unreasonable and embarrassing amount of time into the game over however few days it took me to get to Twin Elms and wanted to get back to being a productive human being, so by that point I wasn't stopping for sidequests, or flavor text, or big capital letters on my save games. Generally when I do a manual save, I just go immediately to the bottom of my save list and click the last one without reading anything, so I guess that did me in. I'm assuming they made a new slot for it and you're not just talking about an autosave? Somehow I managed to save manually like 7 times between going in and the end.

OK, big Act 1 spoiler questions about that location:

Spoiler

I found the vines on the left, but couldn't go anywhere without guards immediately attacking me. I didn't find the sewer on the right, but maybe I didn't activate a quest someone mentioned. When I went in the middle, guards attacked me on sight. Can someone please give me a slight hint about how I can avoid these on-sight attack situations? Like, maybe I need to have a certain race / background or talk to someone else?

Spoiler

Vines on the left. Sneak into the priest floor straight ahead from there.There is... a method on that floor for keeping people from aggroing you. With a bit of luck, you can get to someone who can point you in the right direction from there.

 

[BrokenFiction]

I prefer these on. The thing is, I haven't yet found a game that I trust to interpret dialogue correctly...that includes Pillars. An innocuous line could easily be interpreted as Stoic by the game but really be Cruel by my reckoning; rather than guessing at the intentions of the multiple designers and writers of the game, I'd rather that information be transparent and act accordingly. I know it's not organic, but I'm not looking for a realistic conversation simulator--in which case Pillars would be a bad choice anyways--I'm looking to shape the narrative with my choices. After all, the outcomes of the conversation options and dispositions are still unknown; all the tags do is let you know the inputs.

I also prefer having the skill checks revealed. Realistically, I'm probably only going to play this game twice, at most. It's an amazing game so far, and everything I dreamed of for an Infinity Engine successor, but still. Given that, I want to get an idea of the other paths I could have took, and see the richness of the conversation system, and not have to consult a Wiki after the fact to do those things.

Honestly, without those options, I'd enjoy Pillars much less.

I agree. I have wildly misinterpreted conversations in RPG's before, and have fucked myself too many times b/c I read something too fast. I like the notation, but I wouldn't be opposed to doing it some different way either.

 

[UncleSporky]

I think it was honestly a mistake to have included visible skill checks and "attitudes" period in dialogue. They should have been disabled from the start, not just in expert mode or as optional triggers. Does it really enhance anyone's experience to see [Benevolent] before or after a statement so they know how to gauge it? And from what I've been told, those labels are often misleading, anyway.

Yes, it absolutely enhances my personal experience. I love it. I like being able to know I am acting consistently with the roleplay I have chosen, in the game's own terms.

I hate when I see multiple options, pick what I consider to be the best and most virtuous, and find out later that I was wrong, the best answer was one of the other ones. This way I can be sure I am adding "benevolent" points to my counter, or whatever, even if the resulting dialogue isn't the optimal result. I choose traits in accordance with how I want my character to be perceived in-game.

 

[Intheflorsh]

Well if we are talking about things that should be standard in PC games I will add that a quit to desktop button is something that should be in all games.

ALT+F4, man.

 

[Apt101]

Yea, Durance is pretty cock D from the get-go when paired with a cipher (which my main character is). CC and AoE for days, along with buffs and melee damage.

I find myself reading every bit of lore, like it's a new D&D setting I need to learn everything about. I'm roughly 8 hours in and probably barely halfway through what most others were by this point.

 

[JC Sera]

Btw for anyone going to replay, My high Resolution playthrough has been amazing so far, dialogue wise. There is a lot of mazing lines of not taking bullshit. Also high perception has been very useful too.

Had next to nothing from being a pale elf though.

Spoiler

I kept not getting why people were saying "fuck the light house"

 

[syllogism]

I do think that backstab is a suboptimal talent considering later on you get Deathblows which allows dealing 2x damage from sneak when your target is afflicted with two or more conditions that allow a sneak attack (most importantly flank + some status effect). You pretty much need Shadowing Beyond to make backstab worthwhile even before Deathblows is available and I think Coordinated Positioning or Escape are both better, considering they are per encounter abilities rather than per rest.

 

[Dresden]

Just got the Lead Spitter.

Oh my.

 

[EndcatOmega]

I've got everything unhidden, I see "requirements not met" and the exact stat requirements. And I'm reloading to see alternate dialogue paths when possible. Just want to experience as much as I can.

Nah I mean perfectly ordinary dialogue options will change based on your perception on top of the usual 'you need this much stat to use this option'.

 

[texhnolyze]

ALT+F4, man.

I do this all the time.

 

[Arulan]

I think it was honestly a mistake to have included visible skill checks and "attitudes" period in dialogue. They should have been disabled from the start, not just in expert mode or as optional triggers. Does it really enhance anyone's experience to see [Benevolent] before or after a statement so they know how to gauge it? And from what I've been told, those labels are often misleading, anyway.

It would feel to me like I'm an Elcor from Mass Effect, or something. Amused: Eder, you are off your rocker.

When you have those off, the only thing you get are the dialogue lines that you happen to qualify for, and nothing else. Every line you don't qualify for is completely hidden, qualifiers are hidden so you don't know which lines you've gained based on stats, and tone labels are hidden. This to me feels far more organic. Options are great, but I can't help but feel some are people are doing themselves a great disservice by feeling some need to leave that stuff on.

The additional benefit in this game in particular to removing all of that is that the high-stat lines aren't always the wisest choice. When you have it such that a stat-based line of dialogue is completely indistinguishable from a general line, I think it adds a great deal to the experience.

I agree completely. It's one of the "features" I was really excited for. I believe it allows for a more natural role-playing experience. The meta-gaming relationship with the dialogue tags, and anything else that further reminds you of how the game is interpreting your role-playing can be damaging to your suspension of disbelief. One good example is the "This character will remember that" in Telltale games.

Among many of the problems associated with the dialogue wheel, one of them I particularly dislike is how it emphasizes types of choices based on location around the wheel. Furthermore, the highlighting or emphasis for special options goes against natural role-playing, especially when it's always considered the "best choice"; a "win button". I don't think it's possible to be subtle here, I'm talking about BioWare.