Shake Appeal
Member
RPGCodex are self-parodic.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Pillars of Eternity |OT| You must gather your party before venturing forth.
- Thread starter EviLore
- Start date
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
In their defense, this was kinda my first impression of the combat as well, but
- I'm still early in the game
- I suck, and suspect this guy does as well
Basileus777
Member
It's hyperbolic in places, but a lot of the criticism is fairly well founded. I don't think it's one of Obsidian's better games either.
Complains about accuracy
Says priest is useless because it doesn't have any good buffs
I dunno, he has valid points, but there's a bunch of junk in there too. I think he's clearly a PotD player and probably played on hard, maybe normal.
IF YOU AREN'T BRINGING DESCARTES WITH YOU WHEN YOU PLAY THIS GAME YOU'RE A GODDAMN IDIOT
Yeah, actually I think the condescension towards having D&D-esque systems but not keeping the terminology was what got me most, as if there was more value to pretending that there was someone inside your computer physically throwing a d20 than creating something accurate and understandable for new players.
At one level I'd agree with a lot of the criticisms, but as always with RPGCodex, if anything strays from the one troo faith of the inclined cRPG (a notion which they all seem to agree exists but which none of them can ever actually describe or articulate) they go off the deep end. Pillars is not without fault, some of the design decisions are downright poor and the story is weirdly uneven, but it's not a terrible game by any stretch of the imagination. At it's very worst it's a still a very competent game.
Basileus777
Member
Well the review calls it generic and mediocre, not bad.
Treechopper
Member
I should probably get off the internet. It's my first cRPG and I'm having a blast. I don't need somebody ruining that!
BriareosGAF
Member
Review says he played on hard and found it too easy, except for Arda Dragon.
I agree the fiction is goofy and impossible to follow (I literally have no idea what is going on in the story despite almost being to act 3), which I think is impacted by the presence of the KS stories--I was reading a bunch of them at first and had no idea what the hell they were on about, realized they were superfluous and stopped paying attention to them and most of the story.
As to the repetitive dullness of combat--well, I guess he's just really, really good, because on normal I haven't found the combat dull per se. Sure, it's janky in the usual ways with pathfinding, but you take the constraints the game puts forward and learn how to optimize around those, with placement, micro-managing, buff planning via chant setups, etc. I haven't found it tedious yet.
Did the Durance quest last night and that fight with the dragon was super fun to use geo to funnel, flame walls to roast, stuns and debuffs to keep the enemies down, and then at the end get flamed by the dragon and almost have everyone die.
I didn't participate in the KS so I have no skin in that game or particular anger about how their promises did or did not turn out. I just know that after being forced to play The Order for work it was really nice to get back to something more aligned with my interested like PoE.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
"This game is different than DnD, except when it isn't." It's a very long article that is more focused on saying "Goddamn" and talking about how it's not Baldur's Gate II than talking about the game. It's full of a paragraphs upon paragraphs of empty phrases. I get that he doesn't like it, but he doesn't really articulate why very well besides it's not a clone of DnD. Except for when it is, then that's bad, too. I won't even get into his talking about fantasy tropes like DnD invented them, because that has to be some sort of joke I'm not understanding.
The game has flaws, but he barely talks about them. It's a "look at me" article, worth nothing more than any given YouTube comment.
The game has flaws, but he barely talks about them. It's a "look at me" article, worth nothing more than any given YouTube comment.
hemtae
Member
Durante said:
But from reading the reviewer's posts there, its clear he never expected to like it and just wanted to show how edgy he is.
HamPster PamPster
Member
About darn time Dungeon Siege III got some appreciation!
Every time there is a SE countdown I secretly hope for DS4
On RPGCodex being like BG II and failing to be BG II is something PoE has gotten smacked with quite a bit. And yes, being like BG II is a negative to many of the most outspoken posters.
I don't really care for the BG Comparisons because my experience with that series wasn't what I would call positive, I'm sure the games are great once you get into them but they never hooked me.
I don't feel like they really compare to say Troika's Arcanum, which hooked me from the very beginning and was a fantastic experience all the way through everytime I played, adventuring around a 1800's world, picking up followers as you go, getting to know them and balancing your character alignment between good and evil and how to stop your followers from inevitably leaving you from disagreeing with each other on so on, having one of them even leaving you for his own story arc where he comes back later a changed man and a more useful companion, not to mention the really impressive voice acting.
So I've been making comparisons to that with Pillars, I definitely see alot of minor details that carried over into Pillars I appreciate, I still feel like the Voice acting isn't quite as good but
I'm actually pretty sure Thaos is voiced by the guy who voiced Virgil, who stayed with you through most of Arcanum, which is pretty awesome.
But I thoroughly have been enjoying Pillars a great deal overall and feel like it is leagues better than I would have expected that sort of RPG to be like in 2015, that alone means I don't feel like I can be too critical of it, plenty of room for improvement none the less.
One thing's for sure though, it's not Obsidian's magnum opus or whatever, life goes on and hopefully they'll make other cool and interesting games.
Sadly, I agree. PoE is a fine game, but doesn't really compare to its predecessors. However, I find the universe very interesting, and I think that there is potential. Extensions and/or a sequel could improve the game and would be welcomed.
In any case, their experience with PoE will allow them to avoid repeating the same errors and refine the gameplay (they need to do something about the scouting/sneaking mode). I have mixed feelings about the game, but I believe they can do something interesting based on what they created.
Exactly this, it's not all or nothing. Obsidian has shown time and again that they don't lack for ideas.
Now give me my public domain Lovecraftian horror RPG damnit!
PetriP-TNT
Member
Finished the game, I really, really liked it despite feeling that (act spoilers)
It was also the first RPG of this style I have beaten and left me want for more (I have played through Fallouts and Wastelands which I did love though, among others). Maybe I'll dive into Planetscape Torment sometime.
Took me 47 hours on Easy to do almost all of the side quests, I missed one and could get a handful.
Act 3 was kinda lacking in comparison with Act 2. The places were more plain, there was much less to do and much more text to read.
Took me 47 hours on Easy to do almost all of the side quests, I missed one and could get a handful.
PS:T is an amazing game and should be played by everyone who likes this genre of games. That said PS:T also has a metric boat-load of text. So be prepared to read when you go into it. Heck, the combat in that game is nearly completely forgettable. It's a great candidate for some kind of visual novel treatment. I know I'd re-read that story again without the combat.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
I want to like RPG Codex, because my tastes are a general fit, but I just don't think they enjoy life much at all over there. PoE isn't perfect, but let us remember it's not 1997 and we're not getting games of this caliber every year. Baldur's Gate 1 was pretty lackluster, as was a good half of the IE games. Give the series some time to grow before being mad that paladins aren't like the paladins you know from you DnD manuals.
These people agree with you about the IE games. Those arent their sacred cows.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
It was those, PS:T and Arcanum last time I lurked. Have things changed that much? Do they now love Dragon Age II or something?
hemtae
Member
Fallout 1 has always been the big one. Only recently was it overtaken by Planescape: Torment. Then Fallout 2, Arcanum and Baldur's Gate 2.
Pancakes
hot, steaming, as melted butter slips into the cracks, drizzled with sticky sweet syrup OH GOD
Yea, it's pretty bad. I upped the frame rate to 45fps which won't break scripts but still lets the game run faster and it's still mind numbingly slow. I eventually just had to cheat and put the speed boots on all my characters.
I think most of the flaws have to do with time and money... aren't they usually? 
It's obvious that the 2.5 years wasn't enough to:
1. Come up with an entirely new world setting with lore and background.
2. Come up wiht the plot that centers aorudn the game.
3. Come up with the main characters and quests that make up the adventure.
4. Come up with the methodology for the 2D backgrounds with 3d charcters and lighting.
5. Come up with a brand new, robust combat system.
6. Do all the above on a limited budget, limited time, and with limited personnel.
Not sure what some people were expecting, but I expected a lto worse, and I got probably my most memorable game time in a long while.
Just think about something like Dragon Age Origins. That was a project of similar scope (well, in terms of storytelling and world building and game mechanics at least). And it took a huge studio with with lots more money and double the time! And even though it was great, it had it's flaws.
Think about eveyr new edition of D&D. The huge amount of testing they do, iteration, development time, writing, etc, just on a game system alone, and even they can't get it right half the time!
There's a reason cRPG's are so much of a hard sell, and why Obsidian needed to go kickstarter. The time and money involved in creating complex narratives that feature player agency, deep and nuanced game mechanics is completely lopsided vs creating something like the next COD or a Destiny or a The Order.
Which is why it hurts when people were scrambling to pay $20 for this game, and yet wouldn't blink at paying $60 for something entirely more simple.
Hell, I got a lot more out of my $80 edition of this game than what I got out of Draogn Age: Inquisition. Think about the cost of that game, and the results... Imagine if Obsidian would have had access to that budget and that development talent instead - AND, perhaps crucially, didn't have to appeal to the lowest common denominator?
It's obvious that the 2.5 years wasn't enough to:
1. Come up with an entirely new world setting with lore and background.
2. Come up wiht the plot that centers aorudn the game.
3. Come up with the main characters and quests that make up the adventure.
4. Come up with the methodology for the 2D backgrounds with 3d charcters and lighting.
5. Come up with a brand new, robust combat system.
6. Do all the above on a limited budget, limited time, and with limited personnel.
Not sure what some people were expecting, but I expected a lto worse, and I got probably my most memorable game time in a long while.
Just think about something like Dragon Age Origins. That was a project of similar scope (well, in terms of storytelling and world building and game mechanics at least). And it took a huge studio with with lots more money and double the time! And even though it was great, it had it's flaws.
Think about eveyr new edition of D&D. The huge amount of testing they do, iteration, development time, writing, etc, just on a game system alone, and even they can't get it right half the time!
There's a reason cRPG's are so much of a hard sell, and why Obsidian needed to go kickstarter. The time and money involved in creating complex narratives that feature player agency, deep and nuanced game mechanics is completely lopsided vs creating something like the next COD or a Destiny or a The Order.
Which is why it hurts when people were scrambling to pay $20 for this game, and yet wouldn't blink at paying $60 for something entirely more simple.
Hell, I got a lot more out of my $80 edition of this game than what I got out of Draogn Age: Inquisition. Think about the cost of that game, and the results... Imagine if Obsidian would have had access to that budget and that development talent instead - AND, perhaps crucially, didn't have to appeal to the lowest common denominator?
Great joke review from the Codex. As someone with a laundry list of critiques of PoE, I'm alternating between bafflement and laughter as I skim through this one. Darth Roxor apparently took a Philosophy 101 class last semester and feels the need to invoke Plato and Descartes at every turn, in between references to every CRPG he can think of in order to sound like a more credible elitist. Oh, and the requisite stalker-level Josh Sawyer obsession/hatred that has been the Codex's calling card for years.
Eh, he really went all out.
Overall I feel felipepepe's review on the site is much more even and better articulated. Games is not without flaws and some could easily been avoided too.
The overall consensus on the codex seems to be "better than BG1 but not as good as 2", which I think it is a fair description.
cartoon_soldier
Member
No character reroll options I assume?
Nope, which is a bit annoying if you want to use the NPC companions who have subpar builds more often than not, and if you made a mistake when choosing talents/abilities. The possibility to reroll at least once for everyone wouldn't hurt (kinda wish our companions had unique and special skills too, though to be fair Pallegina's race is unique; not sure if Durance is the only character who can be a Magran priest; Hiravias's unique transformation may count too; and I guess Sagani too with Itumaak if a pet fox can't be choosen by a PC Ranger).
Shake Appeal
Member
By their own admission, they were also floored by the response to the Kickstarter and had to churn out ideas and mechanics very, very quickly to satisfy and encourage interest in the game. It's part of why PoE2 would be so exciting: so much of the tools, template and world is in place now, they could pour all their energies into content, balance, depth.
Yep.
perfectsil
Member
so I find I can just sneak with my Cipher, cast Tenuous Grasp on an enemy (makes them confused), sneak back, that enemy will die fighting other enemies, rinse and repeat. I feel dirty doing it, winning battles I should have no chance of winning.
Alcoremortis
Member
Well, I don't think he's wrong per se about most of the encounter design. And the lack of pre-buffing. After Raedric, the rest of the game felt very easy for me, with only a few sticking points. I'm kinda nostalgic for the dick moves of BG2 where you find a secret door at level 7, open it and find yourself face to face with a very angry lich who proceeds to empty his spellbook on your face.
But in regards to his concerns about the nobleman's daughter quest, there are options where you can totally agree with whatsisfacecultistman, you just have to have certain backgrounds.
So I think I'm at the end. It's been a long journey, and I've been continually impressed by things as they wrap up. I really enjoyed the companions a lot more than I thought I would -- the depth that I feel like they lack in Act 2 is (mostly) gone by the end of act 3 for me.
I know Act 3 is a sticking point to some, but it's absolutely been my favorite. I think my main complaint is that if you do side-quests, you're pretty much maxed out through most of Act 3, which makes it less fun. My other complaint is that things escalate a little too quickly, it doesn't take much to go from:
MAJOR STORY SPOILERS
Overall though the game has been fantastic. I'm looking forward to playing a more sociopathic character the 2nd time around.
I know Act 3 is a sticking point to some, but it's absolutely been my favorite. I think my main complaint is that if you do side-quests, you're pretty much maxed out through most of Act 3, which makes it less fun. My other complaint is that things escalate a little too quickly, it doesn't take much to go from:
MAJOR STORY SPOILERS
Personal Problem to Kingdom Under Fire to God Only Knows
Overall though the game has been fantastic. I'm looking forward to playing a more sociopathic character the 2nd time around.
I didn't really open this to expect him to be
using a WH40k portrait
I agree with some criticisms, but personally I feel like PoE is a good and thoroughly enjoyable game.
I still really hope we'll get a shadowrun returns > dragonfall jump in quality with the expansion.
I played BG1 and 2, finished BG1 recently.
I'm at Act 3 of POE, at the moment i think this is my impressions about it.
BG2>POE>BG1
BUT i must say, the quest design of POE is better than the entire BG saga, with more c&c and text options, it feels with the dialoge system more like a short version of Planescape than Baldur's.
What do you think?
I'm at Act 3 of POE, at the moment i think this is my impressions about it.
BG2>POE>BG1
BUT i must say, the quest design of POE is better than the entire BG saga, with more c&c and text options, it feels with the dialoge system more like a short version of Planescape than Baldur's.
What do you think?
According to SteamSpy it's ~300K on Steam. I would imagine a sequel is very likely, they've even talked about it before, whether they'd go through Kickstarter again, or fund the sequel themselves.
Is anyone here interested in Sword coast legends?
I can't find much info about it, which is kinda disappointing. At least it looks pretty?
god that name doesn't gel well
sorry if this is too offtopic, I couldn't think of a more appropriate thread. Maybe its time to start a CRPG general? :q
Eh, I watched the first gameplay video they released, and it looked very generic. On the other hand, the second video showing off the DM mode looks potentially interesting. I'm not expecting much from the campaign, but if the DM mode has enough depth it could be worth checking out.
I'm watching this video now and dear god the voice acting is grating
but it also runs on 5ed (both rules wise and the overall new direction) and looks very pretty & straight forward
which are positives for me
hemtae
Member
There's this also Durante's RPG thread functioned sort of like that last year. Maybe we should get a "What wrpg are you playing now" like the jrpg thread.
But I'm still wait and see on it. I'm not totally on board with their adaptions to the D&D 5e ruleset and it looks more Neverwinter Nights than Baldur's Gate.
I've played 5th ed and I am a big fan of it, its very enjoyable as a TTRPG. However it improved by moving away from the video gamey-ness of 4th ed and other editions. So seeing its translation to a video game will be interesting....
The fact they find a +2 sword on a dead body in this video doesn't bode well
I'd like to start a CRPG thread, but I've never made one before and am kinda nervous
Subbed to both those threads now, thanks
AntiFacebook
Member
Is there a way to find out what happened to
?
It seems that no matter what I do,Eder's quest ends with
Eder's brother
It seems that no matter what I do,Eder's quest ends with
us not being able to find out why he moved to the other side
Yes Fallout 1, maybe Arcanum or PST. But more likely older rpgs like Realms of Akania, Darklands of the Goldbox games.
Their sacred cow is Fallout, which is just hilarious really considering how broken and, worse, boring the combat in that game is.
The fun part is, if you look at their poll PoE is actually very well-received even at RPGCodex. There are just some people who can't deal with the fact that a RTwP RPG is actually really good
Their sacred cow is Fallout, which is just hilarious really considering how broken and, worse, boring the combat in that game is.
The fun part is, if you look at their poll PoE is actually very well-received even at RPGCodex. There are just some people who can't deal with the fact that a RTwP RPG is actually really good
Thats because turn based is superior, Durante.