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Pixar’s Inside Out |OT| Quirks in Navigation

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Yeah I guess it is more of both. Riley is what actually is happening and joy/sadness are the main protagonists in the metaphor since they represent the main conflict in emotions within riley at the time. What I meant was that riley, while not necessarily being the main character, is the actual story. Like her emotions literally are the story and a metaphor is used to describe them.

Thinking about the movie in this way makes me appreciate it a lot more. I'm incredibly interested in how this movie was storyboarded. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Riley's story was created before any thought was put into the emotions' story.
 
Thinking about the movie in this way makes me appreciate it a lot more. I'm incredibly interested in how this movie was storyboarded. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Riley's story was created before any thought was put into the emotions' story.

They're so tightly integrated I can't imagine a world where that's the case.
 

mcw

Member
Earlier I mentioned that, as a writer, I look at a concept like this and shudder, thinking about how difficult it would be to realize effectively. Apparently I don't know the half of it. From Wikipedia:

Docter recruited a story crew to help develop the film's plot line. Although animation as an industry had been dominated by men, half of the story crew were women, in attempt to have more diverse input. The choice to focus the film on a girl came from research that claimed that females age 11 to 17 are more attuned to expressions and emotions than others. The idea to have Riley play hockey came from Del Carmen, who noted that the sport is big in Minnesota. They tried to stray away from stereotypically "girly" interests, such as the color pink or dresses. Initial ideas for the film found the main character, Riley, falling into a deep depression. Docter later scrapped these ideas, as he felt they were inappropriate.

The film was first storyboarded over a period of two to three years, all the while undergoing screenings for Pixar's "Brain Trust," a small group of creative leaders at Pixar who oversee development on all movies. After multiple screenings and suggestions from other filmmakers, the picture was put into production. It was again evaluated three months into that process. Kevin Nolting, editor of the film, estimated there were seven versions of Inside Out created before it even went into production. The story team attempted to create as much contrast with characters as possible. They found Joy the most complex character to write for, as she illustrates a broad range of "happy feelings." The earliest idea present in the final film is that Joy holds onto youth too long, setting about a "social storm" for Riley. It was not until several screenings later that they came upon the concept of moving to a new place, which created an external conflict that made the story easier to write. Initially, this crisis was to be set at a Thanksgiving Day pageant, in which Riley was hoping to be cast as its lead role, the turkey. Docter later deemed this idea too "bizarre" and it was replaced.

Docter estimated it took four years of development for the film to achieve success in marrying the architecture of Riley's mind and her personal troubles. The concept of "personality islands" helped develop the film's emotional stakes, as they directly affect events inside her mind and in her life. In one draft, the characters fell into "Idea Fields," where they would "cultivate new ideas," much like a farmer would cultivate crop. The character of Bing Bong—a discarded old imaginary friend—came about in one draft of the film as part of a refugee camp inside Riley's mind. It was difficult to achieve the correct tone for the film; for example, viewers could not be distracted by Joy's nature or feel negative about the mess she helps steer Riley into. Rivera credited the casting of Amy Poehler, in addition to the idea of moving, with helping the film find the right tone.

An early version of the film focused on Joy and Fear getting lost together, as it seemed to be the most humorous choice. By July 2012, the project was set for an evaluation screening with other Pixar filmmakers. Docter gradually began to feel that the story was not working, which led to fears that he may be fired. He took a long walk at his home one Sunday, in which he began to consider himself a failure, his previous successes "flukes," and a general sense that he should resign from the film. While pondering what he would miss about Pixar, he concluded that he would miss his coworkers and friends most of all. He soon reached a breakthrough: that emotions are meant to connect people together, and that relationships are the most important things in life. He decided to replace Fear with Sadness, which he felt is crucial to renewal. He met with Rivera and Del Carmen that night to explain his change of plans, and to his surprise, they reacted positively to it. At the screening, he informed his superiors that new plans for the film were in order. Although a "scary moment," the film remained in production.

Screenwriter Michael Arndt worked for a year on the film's script, calling it "both a brilliantly creative idea but also incredibly challenging," but left the project in early 2011, adding that "knowing the Pixar process, there may not be a single word [I wrote] that remains in the final script! They’ve had writers work on it since then."
 

Blizzard

Banned
wrong answer
1. Except Joy did try to use one of those tubes later in an attempt to get back to HQ which was conveniently when the island was crumbling so

2. But it should have made a difference. It would have made a difference when Riley flubbed her hockey tryouts, which wasn't because she wasn't feeling happy or sad, it was because she didn't have her playing memory

The only useful lesson from the adventure back to HQ was:
"It was first hinted at when bing bong was sad and Sadness talked to him. At first Joy was like "oh god she'll ruin everything", because Joy had a very childish understanding that "sad=bad", but when bing bong talked it through and felt better, it showed for the first time that maybe she isn't the answer to everything ever.
but that was only applicable to Riley's
reunion with her parents in the end
. None of what Joy/Sadness learned actually had any bearing on getting them back to HQ.
the infinite bag canadian boyfriend trick was just nonsense
nor did any of the brain world-building prevent/explain using a deus ex machina
with the frozen brain controls and idea bulb at the end
I felt what you call a deus ex machina actually made sense:

When one goes through heavy depression, it can be difficult to feel anything. Anger asks what have they done to Riley's brain when nothing can be changed anymore. Sadness breaks through that wall, in the same way that talking over a difficult situation and letting emotions out can actually open the way to start recovering and feeling emotions again -- thus enabling the control panel once more.
 

Timbuktu

Member
Earlier I mentioned that, as a writer, I look at a concept like this and shudder, thinking about how difficult it would be to realize effectively. Apparently I don't know the half of it.

It seems to be the case in so many of the successful Disney/Pixar movies like Aladdin, Lion King, Toy Story, Ratatouille and Inside Out, that they have this black friday/monday/whatever. They realised that there is something really wrong with the story in the middle of production and have to throw things out and almost start over before hitting the jackpot.

Obviously, it didn't really work for Brave. But perhaps it might be why Stanton and Brad Bird would mess up with live action, they isn't as much time in the process to see if the story works. Hopefully, this mess might mean that the Good Dinosaur is turns out good as well.
 

Osahi

Member
Saw it today and damn, i cried like... A lot. The whole movie i saw were it was going, and i knew it would be an emotional finale, but damn, it really got me. When i saw my wife crying too it just opened up the floodgates and i startedblaughing about it because it was so stupid of me :D

What a masterpiece. I loved the adventure and humor and wit, but above all it touched something about being young and growing up and learning life sometimes just pulls the rug from under you.
 

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
l5x7oFh.gif
 

Afrodium

Banned
I'm not sure what you mean by that. Riley's literal story is fine. If we didn't see inside her head it would be a simple story but serviceable. But Riley's story isn't the main one, Joy's is. Joy's story is supposed to be what's driving Riley's a that metaphor is poorly done.

You're absolutely correct, and I'm not even saying that one interpretation of the film is right. I'm just saying that those who view the movie in a more metaphorical sense tend to view the film more positively.
 

Blizzard

Banned
I disagree

depression is extreme sadness which would imply Riley was already to the emotion. Riley wasn't depressed (confirmed by the director) and get problem was that she wasn't feeling any emotion. Based on preceding plot I would have suggested Riley's returned code memories, perhaps with all new sadness touch or the particular revealed embedded sad memory of her parents consoling her on the tree, would have jolted the idea of returning to happy Minnesota out of her head *I'm grasping for straws* I get their intention: sadness saves the day but the execution was poor shortcut
When did the director say that? I didn't know about that.
 
I disagree

depression is extreme sadness which would imply Riley was already to the emotion. Riley wasn't depressed (confirmed by the director) and get problem was that she wasn't feeling any emotion. Based on preceding plot I would have suggested Riley's returned code memories, perhaps with all new sadness touch or the particular revealed embedded sad memory of her parents consoling her on the tree, would have jolted the idea of returning to happy Minnesota out of her head *I'm grasping for straws* I get their intention: sadness saves the day but the execution was poor shortcut

While she might not be in a deep depression, I feel like, since she was trying to suppress sadness and stay happy for her dad, as a result she eventually couldn't feel anything. (Which basically is depression, maybe not deep depression) Her allowing sadness to be felt was the fix to the problem since the whole time all she really wanted to do was cry (hence why sadness always wanted to touch the orbs)
 
Just got back from my second viewing with a different group of friends. Still amazing, plus I got new jokes and references I missed the first time.

Also:

Take her to the moon for me, okay?

tumblr_m0hryrATkN1r7bma7o1_400.gif


Couldn't that mean that
she was inside a NOT so deep depression though
?
It was depression, just not deep depression.
Also, depression isn't "deep sadness" lol.
 

Blizzard

Banned
Just got back from my second viewing with a different group of friends. Still amazing, plus I got new jokes and references I missed the first time.

Also:

Take her to the moon for me, okay?

tumblr_m0hryrATkN1r7bma7o1_400.gif


It was depression, just not deep depression.
Also, depression isn't "deep sadness" lol.
Yeah, I felt like it was depression as well, just maybe not "deep" or "clinical" depression.

I don't like ranking movies but since people are mentioning other movies, Ratatouille remains my favorite by Pixar.
 
Yeah, I felt like it was depression as well, just maybe not "deep" or "clinical" depression.

I don't like ranking movies but since people are mentioning other movies, Ratatouille remains my favorite by Pixar.
Too soon for me; I need more time. It actually took me a while to recognize Ratatouile's greatness.
 
M-W:

Dictionary.com:


Again I get what they what they were aiming for with sadness but all your justifications were not in the film.
If you argue sadness was the solution then where in Sadness' journey did she develop the connection/control with Riley to help her out of not feeling and/or where was it established in the world building and rules why Sadness could take out the idea bulb when the others couldn't?! In comparison you can see what in Joy's journey (observing Sadness with Bing bong, recalling the sadness before a happy core memory) would lead her to allow Sadness touch the button in the end to help Riley reconnect with her parents. There's a set up and a payoff. There's no such progression for sadness. That's why the fixed frozen mind console is a deus ex machina

Well, that's wrong, depression isn't sadness. Its when you don't feel anything and are numb. Riley was holding back her feelings and as a result became depressed. Now, people who are deeply depressed for long periods of time can become sad frequently, but the sadness and the depression aren't necessarily the same thing. I know because I was depressed for years. Maybe that's an alternate description for something else than the condition, like an adjective or something. If its not its still flat out wrong.
Again, this is all a metaphor for what Riley was feeling. The justification doesn't need to come from the fictional world. It comes from the real world, because in this situation she needed to feel sad to counter her depression. That's why sadness could fix things and that's why we cry.

Edit: actually, I'm not sure why she could pull out the bulb because that's not inputting sadness as you can clearly see she does not get sad when sadness pulls it out. Maybe the frozen control board would only work with sadness as that's what Riley needed? They don't really go over the details of how the control board works. I guess its because they don't want to confuse kids with too much explaining
 
M-W:

Dictionary.com:


Again I get what they what they were aiming for with sadness but all your justifications were not in the film.
If you argue sadness was the solution then where in Sadness' journey did she develop the connection/control with Riley to help her out of not feeling and/or where was it established in the world building and rules why Sadness could take out the idea bulb when the others couldn't?! In comparison you can see what in Joy's journey (observing Sadness with Bing bong, recalling the sadness before a happy core memory) would lead her to allow Sadness touch the button in the end to help Riley reconnect with her parents. There's a set up and a payoff. There's no such progression for sadness. That's why the fixed frozen mind console is a deus ex machina
It is disappointing that you're doubling down on your claim that depression is just deep sadness. It just isn't true. It's actually an awful thing that people who think like you do exist. It is extremely harmful and damaging for people dealing with this type of mental illness.

Also, this made me recall
the movie's joke regarding facts and opinions.
I hope the irony is not lost on you :p

why Sadness could take out the idea bulb when the others couldn't?!
All of these scenes:
-The first idea bulb they used
-Sadness comforting Bing Bong
-Joy's epiphany regarding the bittersweet Hockey memory while trapped inside the Memory Dump

Very clearly stablish Sadness as the essential coping mechanism for the job.
You know, the point of the whole movie?

I can't believe I had to explain that, but there we are.
 

Blizzard

Banned
From your own links:

M-W: : a serious medical condition in which a person feels very sad, hopeless, and unimportant and often is unable to live in a normal way

Dictionary.reference.com: A psychotic or neurotic condition characterized by an inability to concentrate, insomnia, and feelings of extreme sadness, dejection, and hopelessness.


I at least wasn't talking about plain sadness, I was talking about depression as in, the sort where you stop feeling emotions easily.
 

Blackhead

Redarse
It is disappointing that you're doubling down on your claim that depression is just deep sadness. It just isn't true. It's actually an awful thing that people who think like you do exist. It is extremely harmful and damaging for people dealing with this type of mental illness.

Also, this made me recall
the movie's joke regarding facts and opinions.
I hope the irony is not lost on you :p

All of these scenes:
-The first idea bulb they used
-Sadness comforting Bing Bong
-Joy's epiphany regarding the bittersweet Hockey memory while trapped inside the Memory Dump

Very clearly stablish Sadness as the essential coping mechanism for the job.
You know, the point of the whole movie?

I can't believe I had to explain that, but there we are.

From your own links:

M-W: : a serious medical condition in which a person feels very sad, hopeless, and unimportant and often is unable to live in a normal way

Dictionary.reference.com: A psychotic or neurotic condition characterized by an inability to concentrate, insomnia, and feelings of extreme sadness, dejection, and hopelessness.


I at least wasn't talking about plain sadness, I was talking about depression as in, the sort where you stop feeling emotions easily.

... I think you guys are trolling me, right?
 
I am respectfully speaking as someone who's gone through depression. Sometimes a depressed person feels sad. Sometimes they may have emotions walled off -- maybe as a defensive mechanism.
Depression has never been a severe problem for me, but one of my parents suffers from it. (Not going to go into details, but suffice it to say I've helped them through it the most out of everyone they know. Trips to the doctor, therapy, the works.) What you said is very true.

I actually have zero problems with someone disliking the movie for whatever reason they choose (subjectivity!) But not gonna lie, dismissing depression as "deep sadness" really ticks me off (picture my version of Anger going nuts :p).
 

Daft_Cat

Member
That's gotta be one of the best films released in my lifetime. There's so much to think about, and so many details worth discussing. I can't wait to see it again!

As for right now, perhaps the the biggest complement I can offer is this: Inside Out might have a permanent effect on the way I visualize my own mind and emotional processes. Maybe that sounds goofy (I'm a 24 year old man)... but it's true.
 
Even after what the director said?
He said he decided against going the "deep depression" route. That is all it means. It doesn't rule any other kind of depression out.

Why you keep bringing this up is a mystery.

Riley didn't experience symptoms for up to two weeks. Ip so facto she wasn't depressed. Happy now?
You can suffer from a illness before a doctor makes an official diagnosis.

Crazy, I know.

Also, I like how the quote you used includes a list of symptoms Riley struggled with in the movie:
Individuals may feel hopeless, helpless, worthless or guilty. They may experience a variety of cognitive symptoms, such as negative or distorted thinking, difficulty concentrating, forgetfulness, distractibility, memory loss, and indecision.
 

CREMSteve

Member
Just got back from seeing this with my kids. It was a good flick, but definitely doesn't rank amongst the best Pixar work for me. Felt it was too short and most of the characters lacked development. /shrug
 

wenis

Registered for GAF on September 11, 2001.
Movie was only alright. I really did not enjoy Lava. That might be the worst short they've ever done.
 
This was a pretty good film, although it just irked me a bit about how restricted Hollywood is with animated films. I very much liked the concept of the movie and it was enjoyable, I felt that the story they chose to center it around was too cliche, but it's expected given the company that made this, but that also says a lot in terms of competition and diversity in this medium.

This film opened up with a short called Lava about a love story between two lavas that span millennia or even perhaps aeons. While it was a visually impressive short, it was boring in content, incredibly cheesy through the average vocals that I might even say was bad.

In what this movie did right, it did a fantastic job in having a dual story that is reflexive of each other. The personification of what's going through Riley's head was humorous, sad, and invigorating all in one package. All of the emotions were distinctly unique and though they were incarnations of one specific emotion, they all had different sides to them. They didn't let that one emotion become all that it is to them. Each of them share traits of the name from the other, but it's just that one specific emotion is their notable trait.

On the human side is where I found the faults. Riley herself isn't that interesting. She is a that cliche white suburban child dealing with moving to a new area and falls under all the tropes that this story leads to. Her parents aren't really any better. They fall under the tropes for the mother and father role for this particular kind of story.

Fortunately, a good chunk of this movie focus on the personification of Riley's psyche and that's where the film shines. Disney and Pixar know how to tug on those heartstrings and this movie does it just as well as its predecessors. Inside Out is definitely Pixar at form and a must see film.
 
Incredibles still top dog. But Inside Out is a top 3 for me I think behind Bird's films.
Ratatouille is great but not in my top 10 Pixar movies. I'd put all three Toy Story movies, Monster's Inc, Brave, Up, Inside Out, Wall-E, Incredible, and Finding Nemo above it. Ironically, for a movie about emotions, Inside Out may be the least emotional Pixar movies for me. It is possibly the most thought provoking one though. It's a totally brilliant movie with lots of depth.
Edit: Lava was fantastic. You people are crazy.
 

The Lamp

Member
Ratatouille is great but not in my top 10 Pixar movies. I'd put all three Toy Story movies, Monster's Inc, Brave, Up, Inside Out, Wall-E, Incredible, and Finding Nemo above it. Ironically, for a movie about emotions, Inside Out may be the least emotional Pixar movies for me. It is possibly the most thought provoking one though. It's a totally brilliant movie with lots of depth.
Edit: Lava was fantastic. You people are crazy.

The lava puns made me want to vomit.
 

Slacker

Member
Saw it this afternoon; was amazed. I can't begin to rank Pixar movies (aside from Wall-E at number 1) but this is way up there.

Lava wasn't great though. Also saw the trailer for "Pan." I assume that's from the creative minds behind John Carter and Tomorrowland, because it looks like a very expensive waste of time.
 
Thank goodness Pixar's back in shape, because lord Zootopia looks like shit. When did Disney decide it was their dream to make wretched Dreamworks clones again?


And Lava was lovely, what the hell you guys.
 

U2NUMB

Member
Really enjoyed the movie.. fantastic from start to finish and also being from
Minnesota
I never expected so many home town references.
 
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