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[Saiyu]

Except it doesn't. You don't become gay by watching stuff with gay representation, lol. You either are or you aren't. What MIGHT happen is that more people who actually are gay feel more comfortable coming out if they see more examples of it in mainstream media.

Oh for sure. As the lead author of a study that found lesbians are more likely to have adult children who are gay we should celebrate that there's a culture where they are free to explore who they really are.

 

[ikbalCO]

Producers insert it without fully understanding it. I've hardly ever seen actors cast that achieve gay chemistry, or scripts written to build up the moment well.

Elio & Oliver from call me by your name had the chemistry. Captain holt & Kevin from brooklyn 99 had it aswell. I think when the goal is not to add but to build a character and tell a story it is amazing and works perfectly.

But when they just put it just so that they can say did it. It just, feels off. Like in multiverse of madness.

 

[RoadHazard]

Oh for sure. As the lead author of a study that found lesbians are more likely to have adult children who are gay we should celebrate that there's a culture where they are free to explore who they really are.

Isn't it rather that they are more likely to have children who feel comfortable being open with being gay, not that they actually have more gay children? Maybe that's what you meant though.

Or maybe it's both. Is there a genetic inherited factor to this? The gay gene? Lol.

 

[Dr. Claus]

One Piece? Ivankov and the Kamabakka Kingdom, Mr. 2 Bon Clay, and now Yamato. Ivankov was revealed back in 2009, before angry white men appropriated the word woke (RIP "Stay woke"). Mr 2 is from 2000.

HunterXHunter has Hisoka, who might be manga's first pansexual character, all the back in 1998. There are probably lots more, but I don't have time to look for dates for all of them.

DBZ isn't the only popular series, and there are many instances of LGBTQ characters in shonen, which are very much read by a lot of pre-teens. I mean, OP is on all the kids networks, and is hugely popular worldwide.

EDIT: In the end, I think this thread veered off in the direction it has because specious assumptions are being made for this film underperforming. If it was evidence of some mass exodus from Disney, then they should be suffering comprehensively, and not these odd films and shows here and there. There are probably issues relating to marketing and budgeting that factor way more heavily into this than political backlash. People who push that line always assume the rest of the public is as engrossed in the politics of life that they are. I think most people go through life with a sense of indifference to things that they aren't passionate about, and I don't think there is a ton of passion around inclusivity in Disney products. I always come back to the money in that regard, and I have to assume that the "woke" movement that some want to rail against is actually a money maker. Disney isn't altruistic, and I don't think there'd be a push to improve representation if there wasn't financial gain in it. That's why literally every media company that isn't pumping conservative conspiracies is getting on the bandwagon. If there wasn't money in it, there wouldn't be a major push industry-wide.

Unless I missed something, Yamato is by no means LGBT. She is a woman who is having a delusion of pretending to be another person entirely (Oden Kozuki).

 

[Zeroing]

Wtf am I reading here?

 

[Saiyu]

Isn't it rather that they are more likely to have children who feel comfortable being open with being gay, not that they actually have more gay children? Maybe that's what you meant though.

I can't say for sure as I have little experience of the field so I left the conclusion the same as the study. It is definitely possible that the difference could be they are more comfortable coming out.

Or maybe it's both. Is there a genetic inherited factor to this? The gay gene? Lol.

As the report says, the theories are that there's genetic and environmental influences and we don't know of any one factor which dominates whether you're gay/straight/bi.

With the lesbian parents study genes may explain in part why more are gay adults compared to those of straight couples as quite a few of the lesbians' children are biologically theirs.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Wtf am I reading here?

Lots and lots of idiocy, Zeroing. Some of these folks seriously need to go outside and touch some grass.

 

[Methos#1975]

I saw the movie, thought it was good. It's basically a Star Trek style adventure that is kid-friendly. Stranded in space, colonizing a remote planet, FTL and slingshot around the sun, time travel, android pet... I'm sorta wondering whether younger kids will understand the 4 years on planet = 1 minute of superspeed in space concept but I'm glad there is a family movie integrating all these concepts.

Happy to see Disney put the lesbian couple although it's sad they had to be bullied by their own employees to put it back in. Even then it's not like this was a lead character so hopefully that will happen one day.

Lots of reasons for this bombing, but #1 is that audiences are trained for Pixar and Disney movies to be on Disney Plus immediately or soon after release. Also, lots of people have Disney Plus so it makes sense to wait. Not a lot of people on Paramount Plus or Peacock so when choosing between movies it makes sense financially for families to skip this theatrically if they are going to have access soon - something that may not be true for Jurassic World Dominion or Top Gun Maverick. Pixar = made-for-tv at this point. Other factors are Tim Allen being gone and of course the whole gay thing, but I think these were definitely secondary.

Also, is Chris Evans THAT big of a box office draw? Sure, he's Captain America but he seems so generic I can't imagine having him as the voice was going to make much of a difference. Not saying it should have been Tim Allen since I know it's different characters technically, but it doesn't seem like he brings anything special to the character.

EDIT: And on the gay thing, the one thing that sort of threw me off was the lady getting pregnant... like I know about donor sperm and all that, but I'm wondering how parents would go about explaining that? I'm sort of wondering what I would have thought if I had seen this at age 5 or so. I'm glad it's there cause it's good to normalize non-hetero families, but it's a little more complicated than "two people love each other and had a child". If they hadn't showed the belly carrying the baby I would have probably assumed adoption. Hopefully one day people will watch moments like this and not overthink since it'll be completely common and routing.

I wouldn't even say it's a conditioning. A real issue moving forward for any children's film is Disney Plus itself and it's mere existence. Children films have traditionally done well because it gave a family something to do together on a weekend that kept the children reasonably quiet and in place for at least a few hours, now the same can be achieved more easily at home since DPlus has hundreds of options. I will also add that this film was always going to have a hard time since it's opening while Jurassic World is out, while that film has suspect quality its still a Dinosaur flick and kids love dinosaurs.

 

[MastaKiiLA]

Unless I missed something, Yamato is by no means LGBT. She is a woman who is having a delusion of pretending to be another person entirely (Oden Kozuki).

I don't really want to get into the whole Yamato identity thing. I think fans make a bigger deal out of it than is necessary. Kaido and crew referred to Yam as his son. Yam identifies as Oden. I'm just going to assume she's a he, until Oda makes it crystal clear. I think Oda was playing around with the genders a bit with

Spoiler: OP 1052 stuff

Yamato in the men's bath, and Kiku in the women's bath. He even had Kiku note that she doesn't feel comfortable taking a bath in front of the "other men".

So I think Oda has very much embraced the concept of gender fluidity and showing how big of a non-factor it really is. The characters just accept each other however they wish to be accepted, without anyone ever displaying hangups or reservations about it.

 

[FunkMiller]

If you think the mere depiction of same-sex parents in media is "propaganda", then you've truly gone off the deep end. This is where conservatives and religious nutjobs become just as bad as the progressive woke crowd. This is where all the whining about "freedom of speech" and "cancel culture" completely falls apart, as they gleefully organize to boycott and badmouth this movie through social media fearmongering.

Yep. And it'd be hilarious if it wasn't so pathetic.

Two minority, extremist crowds screaming at each other about how big a bunch of snowflakes the others are, while the rest of us sit here like

Honestly, this place and Era sometimes have a lot more in common, in terms of some of the people who post on both sites, than a lot of people will admit.

 

[Methos#1975]

I think a lot of the current backlash against Disney is due to the fact that the company at one time had a reputation, wrongly or not, as a family friendly company that prompted conservative Christain values. I know this was the case when I was growing up. That is the most common compliant I hear from many at least. The directions Disney are going now just don't set right with the mistaken projections some give Disney.

 

[ManaByte]

I think a lot of the current backlash against Disney is due to the fact that the company at one time had a reputation, wrongly or not, as a family friendly company that prompted conservative Christain values. I know this was the case when I was growing up. That is the most common compliant I hear from many at least. The directions Disney are going now just don't set right with the mistaken projections some give Disney.

Their quality has also been tanking over the last two years. Ever since Iger left (and Chapek forced him out during COVID), their quality from the parks to entertainment has gone way down. Chapek just cares about the money side of things, like Eisner before him, where Iger spent time on the creative side of things to ensure their quality was at a certain level. Chapek has turned the parks into Jurassic Park where normal people need a coupon day just to go.

 

[FunkMiller]

I think a lot of the current backlash against Disney is due to the fact that the company at one time had a reputation, wrongly or not, as a family friendly company that prompted conservative Christain values. I know this was the case when I was growing up. That is the most common compliant I hear from many at least. The directions Disney are going now just don't set right with the mistaken projections some give Disney.

Agreed.

This whole argument really isn’t about Disney, it’s about a move away from religious thinking in modern society (especially around issues of sexuality), and religious people aren’t happy about that.

 

[Methos#1975]

Their quality has also been tanking over the last two years. Ever since Iger left (and Chapek forced him out during COVID), their quality from the parks to entertainment has gone way down. Chapek just cares about the money side of things, like Eisner before him, where Iger spent time on the creative side of things to ensure their quality was at a certain level. Chapek has turned the parks into Jurassic Park where normal people need a coupon day just to go.

I've never been to any of the parks so no comment there, but honestly Disney has always been sorta of hit or miss with the quality of its films going through periods of high quality fare then slumps with nothing but pure crap. Look at the 70s through much of the 80s and the early 2000s. I'm not even completely sure I agree that their quality has really dipped all that much, at least on the film side. I have enjoyed most of the past few years worth of films, Jungle Cruise was fun, Onward wasn't bad, I really liked Luca which I found to be a very Studio Ghibli like film, the Marvel stuff outside Eternals has still been good, etc.

 

[ManaByte]

I've never been to any of the parks so no comment there, but honestly Disney has always been sorta of hit or miss with the quality of its films going through periods of high quality fare then slumps with nothing but pure crap. Look at the 70s through much of the 80s and the early 2000s. I'm not even completely sure I agree that their quality has really dipped all that much, at least on the film side. I have enjoyed most of the past few years worth of films, Jungle Cruise was fun, Onward wasn't bad, I really liked Luca which I found to be a very Studio Ghibli like film, the Marvel stuff outside Eternals has still been good, etc.

Again, it comes down to who's running the show at the time. The late 70s and 80s were Ron Miller, Walt's son in law. The only GOOD thing he did was Tron and start Touchstone Pictures. After he was gone was Eisner and Wells. When Frank Wells died in 1994 it was all Eisner, which lead to the shit in the late 90s and early 2000s. Iger's tenure was the best the company ever saw after Walt. Everyone wanted him to stay forever. Chapek is just Eisner 2.0.

 

[Batiman]

I got my post deleted in this thread for “thinly veiled homophobia”….

I was calling out homophobia…. WTF

 

[StateofMajora]

No sane parents want to take their kids to see a non toy story with a gay buzz lightyear.

 

[EviLore]

I got my post deleted in this thread for “thinly veiled homophobia”….

I was calling out homophobia…. WTF

It was probably a multi-post delete with one reason inputted for all the deleted posts, targeting a post you were replying to.

 

[Batiman]

It was probably a multi-post delete with one reason inputted for all the deleted posts, targeting a post you were replying to.

Ok cool thx for the response

 

[GymWolf]

Disney taking a hit is always good to hear.

 

[ResilientBanana]

Tim Allen is approaching his 70's. He can't be Buzz forever.

Yikes. Disney is putting this kind of stuff in Toy Story these days? No wonder people don't want to see that.

I agree that LGBTQ require some representation, but if every movie has it, that's different. Too much pandering to a minority group doesn't bring in majority money. Especially for a kids movie. It's a guarantee that more kids have straight parents than not, so very few will relate and be more confused than anything.

 

[SlimySnake]

We chose not to take our kids because of the way Disney is coming across as anti family and trying to push their agenda on kids.

 

[BossLackey]

Yeah, movie was alright. Certainly nothing special and nothing deserving of massive numbers.

 

[12Goblins]

We chose not to take our kids because of the way Disney is coming across as anti family and trying to push their agenda on kids.

anti family?

just say you don't want to see gays in your movies my dude. why so cowardly ?

 

[haxan7]

anti family?

just say you don't want to see gays in your movies my dude. why so cowardly ?

you sound like an actual Inquisitor. Just confess and it will all be over soon!

 

[AJUMP23]

anti family?

just say you don't want to see gays in your movies my dude. why so cowardly ?

I think expressing my opinion about what Disney has become is anything but cowardly. I love Disney and it holds a special place for me as I spent much of my childhood going to Disney parks (free of charge). But I am disappointed that a company that has been somewhat politically neutral decided to weigh in on a political argument, being misguided by a very vocal minority.

 

[FunkMiller]

I think expressing my opinion about what Disney has become is anything but cowardly. I love Disney and it holds a special place for me as I spent much of my childhood going to Disney parks (free of charge). But I am disappointed that a company that has been somewhat politically neutral decided to weigh in on a political argument, being misguided by a very vocal minority.

This is the sophistry that annoys so many people.

Disney are absolutely guilty of sometimes allowing a political agenda to overtake story and character in their products. And I'm one of the first to lambast them (and anyone else) for doing it.

Having a same sex couple in a movie is not doing that. It's just having a same sex couple in a movie. There's no attempt to warp story or character around a political agenda.

Exactly the same way that Uhura being on the bridge of the Enterprise wasn't an attempt to warp Star Trek's stories around the civil rights movement. She was just there - and that promoted positive representation of black people to the masses at the time. The inclusion of same sex couples in modern fiction does the same thing.

If you object to that, then you are essentially displaying the same bigotry that people employed when they objected to Uhura in the 60s. You're literally saying 'I don't want gays in my fictional stories'.

 

[AJUMP23]

This is the sophistry that annoys so many people.

Disney are absolutely guilty of sometimes allowing a political agenda to overtake story and character in their products. And I'm one of the first to lambast them (and anyone else) for doing it.

Having a same sex couple in a movie is not doing that. It's just having a same sex couple in a movie. There's no attempt to warp story or character around a political agenda.

Exactly the same way that Uhura being on the bridge of the Enterprise wasn't an attempt to warp Star Trek's stories around the civil rights movement. She was just there - and that promoted positive representation of black people to the masses at the time. The inclusion of same sex couples in modern fiction does the same thing.

If you object to that, then you are essentially displaying the same bigotry that people employed when they objected to Uhura in the 60s. You're literally saying 'I don't want gays in my fictional stories'.

When I say anti family it wasn't because of the lesbian couple in the movie. It was because they wanted to fight Florida legislation prohibiting teachers from talking to elementary school students about sex. Then you see their leadership in leaked internal videos saying how much they want to influence kids with their agenda. I don't want to support that.

If I want to raise my children with traditional Judeo-Christian values I won't apologize for that. One of those values is respect for others, something that is clearly lacking from the current social climate.

 

[StateofMajora]

You're literally saying 'I don't want gays in my fictional stories'.

Not when the story is for kids.

The star trek comparison is intellectually dishonest because I'm not convinced you're that stupid.

Being black is not a lifestyle or ideology... You're just black.

 

[FunkMiller]

Not when the story is for kids.

Congrats. That's homophobic.

It's perfectly reasonable to object to depictions of sex in fiction aimed at children. Gay/straight/whatever. Doesn't matter. I absolutely back that position 100%.

But objecting to depictions of same sex couples is homophobic. Pure and simple.

If you don't agree, answer me this: why is okay for children's fiction to feature couples of the opposite sex, and not same sex?

 

[StateofMajora]

Congrats. That's homophobic.

That doesn't work on me.

 

[FunkMiller]

That doesn't work on me.

I don't really care what works on you or not. Objecting to same sex couples in children's fiction is homophobic. That's just the truth. Much like objecting to a black person being in children's fiction is racist.

Want to answer the question I asked?

Why is it okay to feature opposite sex couples in children's fiction, and not same sex couples?

 

[strange headache]

Not when the story is for kids.

You are aware that same-sex couples already exist in the real lives of many children? Some of them might even be friends with kids who have two moms or dads.
Are we to tell them that these people don't exist?

If you think that's healthy for kids, you are severely misguided. You're essentially robbing them of the possibility to navigate this reality.

This is where the Florida legislation is abused for nefarious means, by failing to make the distinction between education and indoctrination.

 

[///PATRIOT]

anti family?

just say you don't want to see gays in your movies my dude. why so cowardly ?

Have you seen Disney execs latest videos on transgenderism and gender activism? Seriously.

 

[haxan7]

the inquisition caught one!

 

[StateofMajora]

I don't really care what works on you or not. Objecting to same sex couples in children's fiction is homophobic. That's just the truth.

Want to try answering the question I asked?

Why is it okay to feature opposite sex couples in children's fiction, and not same sex couples?

Just wanted you to know that labeling me doesn't get you anywhere.

Because one is wrong, one is not. However I don't want explicit straight sexuality displayed in children's movies either. Before you say it, a simple kiss between gay people isn't explicit, yet it shouldn't be influencing kids. If they somehow reach the conclusion they're gay in adulthood, they should be able to have free choice.

At the very least, being gay should not be paraded around as a virtue because it's absolutely not. Nor is simply being straight ; but living a good life raising kids the right way in a Christian household, teaching them to love others, and keeping them safe from indoctrination. The current agenda push is absolutely not just to make others comfortable ; it's about destroying the family model. Everything government is doing now is to divide us one way or another and whether the corporations are in on it or they're just looking for virtue dollars... it doesn't matter.

Just so you know, it's possible to have love for someone you disagree with.

 

[StateofMajora]

You are aware that same-sex couples already exist in the real lives of many children? Some of them might even be friends with kids who have two moms or dads.
Are we to tell them that these people don't exist?

If you think that's healthy for kids, you are severely misguided. You're essentially robbing them of the possibility to navigate this reality.

This is where the Florida legislation is abused for nefarious means, by failing to make the distinction between education and indoctrination.

Then my children can find out in real life and I'll navigate them through it as best I can.

 

[strange headache]

the inquisition caught one!

Already trying to play the victim?
Parading the oppression narrative is also what the woketards like to do.

Spare us the whining, nobody is wishing ill upon you. We're merely calling out your bullsh*t.

This is a bullshit comparison. Show me one right-leaning movie-making studio. You cannot compare the 2 sides. One is backed by Hollywood and big tech while the other is just some people on the internet.

You're aware that Hollywood used to be heavily right-leaning, right?

Have you seen Disney execs latest videos on transgenderism and gender activism? Seriously.

Nothing of that stuff is in this movie!

 

[FunkMiller]

Because one is wrong, one is not. However I don't want explicit straight sexuality displayed in children's movies either. Before you say it, a simple kiss between gay people isn't explicit, yet it shouldn't be influencing kids. If they somehow reach the conclusion they're gay in adulthood, they should be able to have free choice.

At the very least, being gay should not be paraded around as a virtue because it's absolutely not. Nor is simply being straight ; but living a good life raising kids the right way in a Christian household, teaching them to love others, and keeping them safe from indoctrination.

If you truly believe that same sex couples are wrong, and opposite couples are not, then I'm afraid that is homophobic.

As for the irony coming off the second sentence I've bolded in your comment, I would hope that many would see it, even if I'm sure, you do not.

 

[*Nightwing]

 

[plushyp]

The only thing offensive about the film was the crappy voice acting from Chris Evans.

 

[StateofMajora]

If you truly believe that same sex couples are wrong, and opposite couples are not, then I'm afraid that is homophobic.

As for the irony coming off the second sentence I've bolded in your comment, I would hope that many would see it, even if I'm sure, you do not.

Yes.. I'm sure you think you are smarter for being an all inclusive atheist, sadly.

Unfortunately we can't fix the world without having more kids and raising them well.

By the way, I am definitely not the type to indoctrinate, if indoctrination means you don't let your kids ask questions or choose their own path in life. All I want to do is try to guide as best I can.

 

[strange headache]

I'll navigate them through it as best I can.

By telling them the same scaremongering crap that you're spouting here?
The poor little things...

...but living a good life raising kids the right way in a Christian household, teaching them to love others, and keeping them safe from indoctrination.

If you want to keep them safe from indoctrination, keep them away from Christianity first.

 

[StateofMajora]

By telling them the same scaremongering crap that you're spouting here?
The poor little things...



If you want to keep them safe from indoctrination, keep them away from Christianity first.

Would you have the courage to tell that to a fundamental islamist?

You truly believe we are better off than we were when people were more religious in the west?

 

[strange headache]

Would you have the courage to tell that to a fundamental islamist?

Yes.

You truly believe we are better off than we were when people were more religious in the west?

Definitely yes!

 

[FunkMiller]

Yes.. I'm sure you think you are smarter for being an all inclusive atheist, sadly.

Unfortunately we can't fix the world without having more kids and raising them well.

By the way, I am definitely not the type to indoctrinate, if indoctrination means you don't let your kids ask questions or choose their own path in life. All I want to do is try to guide as best I can.

Where did I say anything about being any smarter than you?

I'm merely pointing out that having a position of 'being okay with opposite sex couples in children's fiction, while objecting to same sex couples in children's fiction' is undeniably homophobic. Nothing to do with intelligence levels.

Also, I don't think we have to worry about kids not being born...

 

[StateofMajora]

Yes.

To a group of them to their face?

Do you think you'd be in the same amount of danger vs. saying that to Christians?

 

[haxan7]

Already trying to play the victim?
Parading the oppression narrative is also what the woketards like to do.

Spare us the whining, nobody is wishing ill upon you. We're merely calling out your bullsh*t.

Nobody's playing the victim here. I am calling you out on your bullshit for accusing everyone of homophobia when none exists.

 

[StateofMajora]

Also, I don't think we have to worry about kids not being born...

Why?

If the people in charge are doing so horribly, how else do you think we can peacefully transition to a better society than raising good people? Where do you think these leaders are coming from?

 

[FunkMiller]

Why?

If the people in charge are doing so horribly, how else do you think we can peacefully transition to a better society than raising good people? Where do you think these leaders are coming from?

Ok, I think you've stopped making now sense, I'm afraid. You make a comment about having more kids in the world. I assumed because you were scared too many gays were going to be running about, stopping the gene pool from flourishing.