Plasma, LCD, OLED, LED, best tv for next gen
- Thread starter spannicus
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Merriweather
Member
I've got a 7 year old 50" Samsung DLP set which has been awesome but I think is starting to die. I'm starting to get white dots scattered across the screen which apparently is a sign that the light engine is failing or the mirrors are stuck.
I'm starting to research TVs again. Anybody have suggestions for a good set in the 50", $600-700 range?
I'm starting to research TVs again. Anybody have suggestions for a good set in the 50", $600-700 range?
Crazymoogle
Member
I stand corrected. Wasn't aware those had already pushed out.
BruiserBear
Banned
If you're into games, I'd say the Sony 800b and it's not even that close. Samsung's models all have compromises, or oddities to deal with (panel lottery, fluctuating brightness in game mode, higher than ideal input lag even in game mode).
Ah, ok.
Unknown Soldier
Member
I believe all the 2013 4K TVs from reputable brands (read: Not Seiki) have also received software or hardware upgrades to support 4K/60, albeit at 8-bit 4:2:0 only. The HDMI transmitters capable of full HDMI 2.0 4K/60 @ 10/12-bit 4:4:4 won't be ready until the 2015 TVs most likely.
I can tell you that the pixel density of 4K is so ridiculous that I can't really see the loss in chroma resolution outputting my gaming PC to my 65X900A using Nvidia's neato hacked-together driver support for 4K/60 @ 8-bit 4:2:0. Yes, I've inspected the Windows desktop and web browser, I'm sure the loss in chroma resolution is there but it's essentially imperceptible.
Too bad the video card power I need to actually play games in 4K resolution is very perceptibly TOO DAMN HIGH!
mitchman
Gold Member
That's not completely accurate. The problem is that there is no HDMI chip capable of doing HDCP 2.2 _and_ 4k/60 at 4:4:4 currently. So manufacturers generally pick one or the other. However, Samsung supports both by letting one port support HDCP 2.2 and the others support 4k/60 4:4:4. That's what the F9000's evolution kit adds, along with h265 support and bits and pieces.
Stupid question:
I have 6 different HDMI cables. I am concerned that a couple are older. They do not say high speed on them, and do not have Ethernet also.
Is it worth me buying 6 new, matching cables? Something like ...
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0019EHU8G/?tag=neogaf0e-20
Thanks!
I have 6 different HDMI cables. I am concerned that a couple are older. They do not say high speed on them, and do not have Ethernet also.
Is it worth me buying 6 new, matching cables? Something like ...
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0019EHU8G/?tag=neogaf0e-20
Thanks!
lostinblue
Banned
It really depends, here's what you need to know:
(click on image to enlarge/properly see table)
Standard means said cable won't be able to output 1080p. They're not very widespread tbh, but it's worth testing.
Anything that can pull 1080p will be high speed, as for Ethernet, that's always separate ie: Standard with Ethernet or High Speed with Ethernet and more often than not... not needed.
I doubt you have any Standard cable going on in there, but if you did I'd do away with it. (might be causing problems, have you tried switching cable you're using on the XBOne?)
Hrm. That's a good chart. I do not know if some are standard. I have only two that are labeled, both say high speed. One is high speed with net. The others .... no idea at all. I did try the cable thing now that you mention it.
One thing I did not try was plug my Xbox One into the PS4 HDMI that I was using. See if it is some setting on the AVR which I think it may be. The latest was strange with how I changed the color to 30 bit and it worked. Until I switched to my FIOS box and back.
I'm in the market for a new 65" LED so I caught up on this thread over the last few days. I think I've decided on the Sony X850B. I'll primarily be playing games and watching movies and Sony's 2014 line seems to be the best all around for that. The recent price drop to $2,999 certainly helped my decision.
Does anyone have any experience with the Proforma gallery style wall mount here? I love the similar Samsung mount but can't seem to find one like it for the Sony's. This is the closest I got.
Does anyone have any experience with the Proforma gallery style wall mount here? I love the similar Samsung mount but can't seem to find one like it for the Sony's. This is the closest I got.
I have an "old" Panasonic TX - P42 S20(E) (Plasma) since about 4 years and just out of curiosity tried out some recommended settings from a forum (where I'm not registered) and fumbled with some test pictures. These, to be more specific:
http://abload.de/img/universal_hd_testbildpbjz7.jpg
http://abload.de/img/gesichter_hd_testbildx3jab.jpg
Once I had a satisfactory result (in "Normal" mode which was recommended by some) for the test pictures I tried how the same settings would look for TV and later PS4. It looked a little better for digital TV. In these forums it was also mentioned that "Gaming" mode doesn't change anything notably for gaming (like input lag) and that a good picture quality should be just as good for one source as for the other (like consoles). But on PS3 and PS4 the same settings in the same picture mode the picture always seems like there is some kind of grey veil in front of the screen. This "veil" vanishes once I change to gaming mode but at the same time the black levels lose some details. I couldn't fix both issues by changing contrast, color saturation or brightness. Which I shouldn't do anyway after using settings that matched the test pictures, I thought...
I know that there is the possibility to get into the servide menu and change a bunch of other stuff that can't be changed in the normal setting like gamma but I didn't try that since I couldn't find recommended values for these setting and it is said that one should be very careful with the service menu.
So.. do you know any recommended settings (also for the values in the service menu)? Am I making up these issues myself since I was quite happy with the picture quality before I got curios about getting most out of my TV?
http://abload.de/img/universal_hd_testbildpbjz7.jpg
http://abload.de/img/gesichter_hd_testbildx3jab.jpg
Once I had a satisfactory result (in "Normal" mode which was recommended by some) for the test pictures I tried how the same settings would look for TV and later PS4. It looked a little better for digital TV. In these forums it was also mentioned that "Gaming" mode doesn't change anything notably for gaming (like input lag) and that a good picture quality should be just as good for one source as for the other (like consoles). But on PS3 and PS4 the same settings in the same picture mode the picture always seems like there is some kind of grey veil in front of the screen. This "veil" vanishes once I change to gaming mode but at the same time the black levels lose some details. I couldn't fix both issues by changing contrast, color saturation or brightness. Which I shouldn't do anyway after using settings that matched the test pictures, I thought...
I know that there is the possibility to get into the servide menu and change a bunch of other stuff that can't be changed in the normal setting like gamma but I didn't try that since I couldn't find recommended values for these setting and it is said that one should be very careful with the service menu.
So.. do you know any recommended settings (also for the values in the service menu)? Am I making up these issues myself since I was quite happy with the picture quality before I got curios about getting most out of my TV?
TheKingOfPain
Member
I too am almost sold to that one, and you seem very happy for your purchase. Opinions?
YuriLowell
Member
Ive got a 82" Mitsu DLP and I want to get a plasma because im not too happy with the picture quality on this tv, but its going to be hard to let go of that screen size.
lostinblue
Banned
Why not going for a projector then?
Granted, matching Plasma PQ at this point is difficult, but projectors evolved quite a bit since DLP (sadly) went kaboom.
lostinblue
Banned
If you want to take the most out of that you need to reset the A-board beyond what TV settings allow you to:
-> http://panasonic.mironto.sk/restoring_black/mll_readings/ (check "GALLERY: DARK SCENE")
Periodically. This because Panasonic miscalculated or misimplemented the panel voltage compensation, that means black levels rise 3 times in a pretty short operation hour span (first rise happens under 300 hours).
Your TV should be fully risen, just like that so by looking into the examples you can have an idea of what a proper reset will do for it. It's not too hard, I know people that did it with an arduino just fine, but it's not very practical, specially the hooking it up thing (contact the dude that did the website if you need the connector)
Alternatively:
-> http://audiodane.dandk.org/pmcv1/
"solution on a board", sadly it will cost 45 euros (60 dollars) but still very worth it for people with something like a V10 or VT20 at least (VT20 is still such an awesome TV might I add)
I had a S10, don't know if the S20 is much different, it was a fine set, a little barebones when it came to options and features though. S30's were awesome... I don't know if S20 is closer to S10 or S30.
Anyway, with reset it'll certainly still beat the living shit out of most LCD's when it comes to blacks.
Unknown Soldier
Member
Hmm, I didn't know that. That's pretty neat, although without HDCP 2.2 support the HDMI inputs which support 4K/60 4:4:4 will only be useful for connecting to PCs. I believe all existing playback devices of 4K media like the FMP-X10 require HDCP 2.2 to operate. It's a safe bet that Blu-ray 4K players will also require it.
Picked up the Vizio M-B series 42" from Costco last night. Very impressed with the quality of the TV at such a low price. $479.99 and the picture quality is really quite good. Blacks are much better than any other LCD I have owned. I didn't get to spend too much time with it but I used the pre-calibrated setting and made some adjustments from there. Had to put the backlight down to about 50, especially in at night in a darkened room. High brightness gives me a headache and seems to kill some of the finer detail. The picture is not as good as my Panasonic PZ85u plasma but that TV was $1,800 when I bought it. I have not tried gaming on it yet so don't have any impressions of input lag. Looking forward to doing that tonight. Seems like a pretty good TV for its modest price.
mitchman
Gold Member
I don't think the FMP-X10 requires HDCP 2.2. It does require a Sony TV, though. I doubt _any_ media playback devices out now require 2.2.
Unknown Soldier
Member
It requires HDCP 2.2
mitchman
Gold Member
https://us.en.kb.sony.com/app/answe...10-4k-ultra-hd-media-player-support-hdcp-2.2?
HDMI 2 output is HDCP 1.4.
HDMI 2 is for audio to a receiver. Video requires HDCP 2.2,
mitchman
Gold Member
Ok, but it says it _supports" HDCP 2.2, does it actually _require_ it too?
http://helpguide.sony.net/hv/fmpx10/v1/en/contents/TP0000507649.html
For copyright protected content, yes. HDMI 4 is the only HDCP 2.2 input on the A models.
Crazymoogle
Member
They don't sell the Proforma in Canada, so I can't speak to it except to say that based on the specs, it's a slim-mount (similar to the one Rocketfish sells) but built specifically for Sony TVs. So if your TV specifically supports this mount, it might be what you're looking for. If you want tilt (or a mount that will work on future TVs) then stick to VESA mounts.
Hey, guys. I'm in the market for a new TV. My Samsung LCD that I bought in '08 is starting to have some weird hazing in spots. Anyway, would the following be an improvement?:
Current TV:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0014175E8/?tag=neogaf0e-20
TV I'm considering:
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/samsung...66283709&skuId=8239047&st=PN51F5300&cp=1&lp=1
Thanks for any thoughts or suggestions!
Current TV:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0014175E8/?tag=neogaf0e-20
TV I'm considering:
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/samsung...66283709&skuId=8239047&st=PN51F5300&cp=1&lp=1
Thanks for any thoughts or suggestions!
BruiserBear
Banned
That TV you're looking at is a plasma, and it's known for being terrible in a brighter room. If you're going to be playing games in a darker room, it'll probably be pretty good. Just be aware that it's possible to burn in a plasma with the HUD in many games, and channel logos while watching TV.
Surely that would happen in the first year, though, and I could just take it back to the store, right? And is it known for being terrible in bright rooms because of, like, reflection issues? I have blackout curtains in the living room, so that shouldn't be a problem, I don't think.
Crazymoogle
Member
Burn-in is very rare. Ghosting is common but fixable (and fixes itself with time). You can run a burn-in DVDR (freely downloadable) if you're really concerned.
Plasma in general does not run as bright as LCD, but since it uses a large piece of front glass, it's more susceptible to reflection. That being said, I owned one in a small apartment with a side window for years, so it's hardly impossible. The curtains will definitely help though.
lostinblue
Banned
Samsung Plasmas are known to be pretty resilient when it comes to burn-in
There's something that I need to get off my chest...
Doesn't anyone see anything wrong with the fact that there's no 2014 model video display (monitor or TV) that has an insanely deep, inky black level while having low input lag? I can't be the only one. There's gotta be other people here who care about picture quality.
Pardon my language, but it really pisses me off.
I don't even care for large screen sizes. In fact, I'd prefer a desktop-sized monitor. For instance, how fucking hard is it for a video display manufacturer to produce and sell a 20-something-inch 1080p OLED monitor with low input lag, for no more than, let's say, $1,500? I would be happy to pay that amount for such a display, and I know there are plenty of other people who would do the same.
It's 2014, for chrissakes! It's seriously disgusting that there's no video display company that caters to video game players obsessed with black level -- especially when one knows that black level (contrast ratio) is the most important aspect of picture quality.
Doesn't anyone see anything wrong with the fact that there's no 2014 model video display (monitor or TV) that has an insanely deep, inky black level while having low input lag? I can't be the only one. There's gotta be other people here who care about picture quality.
Pardon my language, but it really pisses me off.
I don't even care for large screen sizes. In fact, I'd prefer a desktop-sized monitor. For instance, how fucking hard is it for a video display manufacturer to produce and sell a 20-something-inch 1080p OLED monitor with low input lag, for no more than, let's say, $1,500? I would be happy to pay that amount for such a display, and I know there are plenty of other people who would do the same.
It's 2014, for chrissakes! It's seriously disgusting that there's no video display company that caters to video game players obsessed with black level -- especially when one knows that black level (contrast ratio) is the most important aspect of picture quality.
WonkyPanda
Member
Just saw that D-Nice has a new calibration for the VT60 with "Normal"instead of "Warm 2." Seems like a pretty big jump. Apparently, he always calibrates under normal.
Crazymoogle
Member
Input lag is the least defensible problem for manufacturers. Essentially the long-running argument has been that the mfrs believe they need to cater to a core audience of cable TV watchers that will be doing spot browsing at retail electronics stores. In those situations it makes sense to blow millions on complex sharpening engines to process the image.
The idea that a portion of the consumer base would want to turn all of that stuff off is probably mildly ridiculous, since they lose whatever software advantage they believed they had and are strictly at the mercy of (a) their hardware design and (b) the panels they (probably) outsourced. A smart company would make a real, best-of-class minimal latency a priority feature on expensive premium panels, but there seems to be little interest in that, either. (It also doesn't help that the JP/KO markets where many of these sets are made has probably a much larger TV than game audience)
Black Levels are a much harder problem to solve. Local Dimming is just plain expensive because you need so many more parts, and as a result so much more QC. Plasma is expensive with significant downside. OLED is *ridiculously* expensive. And I'm pretty sure any numbers manufacturers do have on gamers suggest that the support they will give is for the low end (500-$1000) and not above that.
There's zero core market interest. A 20" OLED panel is an interesting oddity but people in the market for 20" panels are almost always going to settle for a dirt cheap, no-namer 20" TV or the PC monitor equivalent. I suppose you could make one and only sell it online, but even then you're paying 6-7x the price per panel. It's just not worth it. Screen size, on the other hand, sells, and that's why you'll continue to see a push towards 50+ as panels get cheaper.
But hey, if you have money to spend...The LG 55EA9800 is floating around!
Unknown Soldier
Member
But black level and contrast ratio actually aren't the most important aspect of picture quality.
mitchman
Gold Member
The Samsung UE65F9000 with the 2014 Evolution Kit.
Hispanicguy
Member
Hey, guys! I'm thinking of picking up a 55" Samsung TV and I've had my eye on this one: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/samsung...hdtv/4323009.p?id=1219097781355&skuId=4323009
...but I don't know how this would affect my gaming. Can anyone give any opinions, please? I've always been a Samsung guy and if this TV is bad in terms of input lag, then what would be better?
How about this one?
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00II6VW3M/?tag=neogaf0e-20
Thank you for your help!
...but I don't know how this would affect my gaming. Can anyone give any opinions, please? I've always been a Samsung guy and if this TV is bad in terms of input lag, then what would be better?
How about this one?
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00II6VW3M/?tag=neogaf0e-20
Thank you for your help!
I'll respond since I was debating between these exact two models for the past week. I went back and forth on a daily basis. First I leaned towards the Samsung since I currently have a 60" 1080p Samsung that I really like and the super slim profile and mount look great. Then I switched to the Sony since I heard better things about the black levels and input lag. Ultimately since it's a TV primarily for gaming and movie watching yesterday I pulled the trigger on the Sony and it should be delivered next week.
It didn't help that the same Best Buy employee came over to help me on three different occasions. I got so embarrassed that I just decided on the Sony so I didn't have to come back to the store again:/
So my advice is to just decide what you're going to be using the TV for and what features you prioritize over others and go from there. If you have any more questions I'd be happy to help as best I can. It was an unnecessarily difficult decision.
drotahorror
Member
Got the 60" w850b Sony TV the other day. Freakin beautiful.
RoyaleDuke
Banned
Any image lag or ghosting?
I need the details man! I plan to buy this for my mancave when I have the money.
http://www.costco.com/Sony-48"-Class-1080p-Smart-LED-HDTV-KDL-48W590B.product.100109079.html
Does anyone know the difference between the Sony W600B and the W590B available thru Costco? I have Costco credit and was thinking of pulling the trigger. There doesn't seem to be much material difference between the two? I can't take the high input lag on this Vizio and displaylag.com has the W600B at 31ms, which is great.
Does anyone know the difference between the Sony W600B and the W590B available thru Costco? I have Costco credit and was thinking of pulling the trigger. There doesn't seem to be much material difference between the two? I can't take the high input lag on this Vizio and displaylag.com has the W600B at 31ms, which is great.
BruiserBear
Banned
No, burn in is not covered by any warranty. That particular model you're talking about is particularly bad in a bright room. It should be good in a dark room though.
Yeah, all the M models aren't very good in that regard. Some of the E models are good though. Like the 55 inch. (28ms according to cNET)
Chances are there are almost no differences at all, but if you can just get the 600b as you know it's got very low input lag.
