FrankNitty
Member
65X900B
Plasma, LCD, OLED, LED, best tv for next gen
- Thread starter spannicus
- Start date
65X900B
Someone over at AVS mentioned the screen on Costco version may be a bit different. Guy named EscapeVelocity mentioned it and tubetwister gave a detailed response, it's around page 12 of the official thread.
Nice thanks LJ. You and Spooks playing LoU online these days?
I'll be on tomorrow for sure, hit me up.
Wolfgang Jr
Banned
There are no plasmas to buy in Canada besides shitty LGs and the Samsung F5300/5500
You could say the same thing 10 years from now. Of course there were decent plasmas to buy in Canada, why are you so late?
Unknown Soldier
Member
I have a 65X900A from a clearance deal.
Sony bringing their curve to 4K. Not officially announced for the US yet but I would expect that eventually. Looks to be the curved equivalent of the X900B without the giant side speakers in 65" and 75" models.
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/sony-s90-201408073875.htm
Sony compared to the Samsung
I didn't like the Samsungs when I saw them. Seeing a straight line bend due to the screen was annoying. These look much more subtle so I'll reserve judgment until I see one in person.
I've decided to put off replacing my green blob TV until at least after CES. If new models can provide full HDMI 2.0, FALD with higher zone counts and lower input lag then it will be worth the wait. Otherwise, the current models should nicely discounted.
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/sony-s90-201408073875.htm
Sony compared to the Samsung
I didn't like the Samsungs when I saw them. Seeing a straight line bend due to the screen was annoying. These look much more subtle so I'll reserve judgment until I see one in person.
I've decided to put off replacing my green blob TV until at least after CES. If new models can provide full HDMI 2.0, FALD with higher zone counts and lower input lag then it will be worth the wait. Otherwise, the current models should nicely discounted.
Unknown Soldier
Member
They really need to stop with this curve shit.
It's probably been mentioned already, but if you're in the market for a 42" TV for gaming, and you are in Europe, look no further than this:
Sony KDL42W705B
Looks to be the replacement to the Sony KDL-42W653, and has astonishingly low input lag and great image quality. I have the previous model and love it, and this seems even better, with 4 HDMI ports and lower input lag.
Sony KDL42W705B
Looks to be the replacement to the Sony KDL-42W653, and has astonishingly low input lag and great image quality. I have the previous model and love it, and this seems even better, with 4 HDMI ports and lower input lag.
OverdriveOtaku
Member
What's the best way to take advantage of this thread? Start from the front, back? Just ask questions?
I'm in US, and considering a 40-42 inch for my living room.
In my bedroom [somewhat mancave], I have a 32" Panasonic LCD TV, TC-L32C3 that I've had for over 3 years and only used it with my Xbox 360 and PS3 consoles and it's been very good to me. Honestly don't know a lot about it, other than the quality looks great in my opinion.
Earlier this year, an ex girlfriend bought a Sceptre X405BV-FHDR 40" LED TV from Walmart, and the coloring on the thing was horrible. Yes, this is a cheap-ass Walmart TV and I had it promptly returned. Shit even stood up crooked.
Here I am wanting to give my bachelor pad a makeover, and I'm honestly a bit lost with the TV choices, such as LCD, LED, Plasma etc. Not to mention the budget. I'm biased against LED since that Sceptre I had was LED and completely abysmal.
I don't own any current gen consoles, but I'm almost certain I'll own at least one of them within the next year or so. For now, I have my Xbox 360 and PS3, and they are not going anywhere with the large digital libraries I have.
Any guidance or direction would be appreciated.
I'm in US, and considering a 40-42 inch for my living room.
In my bedroom [somewhat mancave], I have a 32" Panasonic LCD TV, TC-L32C3 that I've had for over 3 years and only used it with my Xbox 360 and PS3 consoles and it's been very good to me. Honestly don't know a lot about it, other than the quality looks great in my opinion.
Earlier this year, an ex girlfriend bought a Sceptre X405BV-FHDR 40" LED TV from Walmart, and the coloring on the thing was horrible. Yes, this is a cheap-ass Walmart TV and I had it promptly returned. Shit even stood up crooked.
Here I am wanting to give my bachelor pad a makeover, and I'm honestly a bit lost with the TV choices, such as LCD, LED, Plasma etc. Not to mention the budget. I'm biased against LED since that Sceptre I had was LED and completely abysmal.
I don't own any current gen consoles, but I'm almost certain I'll own at least one of them within the next year or so. For now, I have my Xbox 360 and PS3, and they are not going anywhere with the large digital libraries I have.
Any guidance or direction would be appreciated.
theSlacker
Member
BruiserBear
Banned
It's probably been mentioned already, but if you're in the market for a 42" TV for gaming, and you are in Europe, look no further than this:
Sony KDL42W705B
Looks to be the replacement to the Sony KDL-42W653, and has astonishingly low input lag and great image quality. I have the previous model and love it, and this seems even better, with 4 HDMI ports and lower input lag.
In the U.S that model is nearly identical to the Sony 600b. It comes in 40 and 48 inch sizes.
I'll give you my simple advice. If you want the best gaming/general use tv on the market right now, I'd say buy a Sony 600b or 800b model. They have the lowest input lag for gaming of any TVs on the market, and they have great bright pictures, with deep blacks and good color.
If you want to absolute best tv for movies and sports, but serious gaming isn't a concern, and you're willing to spend more money, I'd buy the Samsung F8500. It comes in 51, 60, and 64 inch sizes. This is an extremely good plasma tv, and it almost certainly is the last great one ever to be made. The only hang up with this tv is the price and input lag. The 51 inch model starts around $1,800. The input lag is said to be around 60ms, which is more than double those Sony models. If you're not really into gaming and fast action games it might not bother you at all.
To anyone buying one of these TVs, I recommend visiting this site and using their free calibrations settings. I've found them to be simple to follow and accurate.
http://www.rtings.com
Picked up the 51F5300, really enjoyed my time with it so far. Gamed on it and input lag was not a problem for me, didn't notice a thing but it may just be the games I play. Don't really need twitch when you're playing The Last of Us. Still need to spend more time with the set, but so far it's a hell of a bargain. Had to return the Sony w850a. Great colors, but I couldnt overlook clouding/uniformity along with really poor viewing angels. Really wanted to keep it but I had serious leakage in the right lower corner during dark scenes.
Kind of want an F8500 now.
Edit In store the f5300 looked like a pos, it's unfortunately a mirror.
Kind of want an F8500 now.
Edit In store the f5300 looked like a pos, it's unfortunately a mirror.
Azzurri
Member
I went ahead and bought the sony x850b since I basically got it for 999 and I thought it was the better of the two
BruiserBear
Banned
That's the one problem with the 5300. Terrible in brighter rooms. Input lag is ok though. You might want to remake the input your using to "PC". That brings the input lag to it's lowest on Samsung models.
Ordered my first 1080p TV today. Will be here Tuesday.
My last two TV's were:
- Samsung HPS4253 - spent a pretty penny on it when it was a new model. Being a plasma, I definitely enjoyed the image quality for movies and games, but it had big image retention problems and it started having an issue with the optical block, with loads of blue pixels in dark scenes right after the manufacturer warranty expired(yay). And with the size of my living room at the time, a 42" display wasn't nearly big enough(often moved the couch up close to enjoy it better). Still kept it for quite a while anyways considering what I paid for it.
- After moving to the UK, I had a Samsung LNS3251D given to me. Its not very good and what I have right now. It has lots of image problems, including banding, poor blacks, and incredibly bright edges all around.
So I have a Panasonic TX-39A400B on the way. I know its not any high end TV and its only 39", but my living room is quite small and I have limited space to work with. I'm pretty sure 39" will actually feel fairly big. I don't need any smart functionality and I'm honestly not even bothered by input lag issues(I'm not terribly sensitive to it and I don't play a lot of response-important games on my PS3 anyways). At £319, I'm simply expecting something a bit bigger than what I have right now, with 1080p-capability and half decent image quality.
My last two TV's were:
- Samsung HPS4253 - spent a pretty penny on it when it was a new model. Being a plasma, I definitely enjoyed the image quality for movies and games, but it had big image retention problems and it started having an issue with the optical block, with loads of blue pixels in dark scenes right after the manufacturer warranty expired(yay). And with the size of my living room at the time, a 42" display wasn't nearly big enough(often moved the couch up close to enjoy it better). Still kept it for quite a while anyways considering what I paid for it.
- After moving to the UK, I had a Samsung LNS3251D given to me. Its not very good and what I have right now. It has lots of image problems, including banding, poor blacks, and incredibly bright edges all around.
So I have a Panasonic TX-39A400B on the way. I know its not any high end TV and its only 39", but my living room is quite small and I have limited space to work with. I'm pretty sure 39" will actually feel fairly big. I don't need any smart functionality and I'm honestly not even bothered by input lag issues(I'm not terribly sensitive to it and I don't play a lot of response-important games on my PS3 anyways). At £319, I'm simply expecting something a bit bigger than what I have right now, with 1080p-capability and half decent image quality.
Funnily enough I ordered a new 32" TV today for the racing cockpit to make the jump from 720p to 1080p. It's the Samsung UE32H5000. Supposed to be pretty good for gaming. Got it new for just over £180. Arriving tomorrow. If it's as good as they say I might buy a couple more ready for going triple-screen. The bezel is nice and slim.
Good deal. Already told you what I think about going triple screen with the Oculus Rift on the horizon, but at £180 a pop, it might not be such a bad idea.Funnily enough I ordered a new 32" TV today for the racing cockpit to make the jump from 720p to 1080p. It's the Samsung UE32H5000. Supposed to be pretty good for gaming. Got it new for just over £180. Arriving tomorrow. If it's as good as they say I might buy a couple more ready for going triple-screen. The bezel is nice and slim.
theSlacker
Member
Is it? RTINGS has the 600b with a 33.9ms input lag while that site that had the 705b review had it at 13.5 using the same test. Sure it isn't the only thing to consider, but if they are actuate then it shows that there is something different between the two.
Unrelated question sorta. Can the dimming features be turned off in these new sonys? I have an older bravia where it can't be and never really liked it.
Unknown Soldier
Member
13.5 is too low to be realistic, I think the lowest Sonys hit in Game Mode is 18ms or so.
The dimming has improved a lot over the years, these days the dimming is very helpful and it also reduces clouding and banding on edge-lit sets.
lostinblue
Banned
Not really.
W605B is like last years 32W650A. (~33 ms input lag, it's the worst response time in the WxxxB/2014 W series)
W705B is like last years (europe only) 42W650A and 50W650A sets. (with 2 extra HDMI ports)
Behavior differences are down to the chips going on inside and possibly panel, W605B are simply not very fast TV's compared to other Sony's in the market, quality assurance is also lower... They're the 32W650 with more inches going on.
Very different TV's even if they were under the same moniker last year might I add... we also have W605B's here in Europe and they're not so hot, no one's recommending them (last year 32W650A wasn't so hot here either), they're certainly not horrible, that's the best one can say about them but it doesn't make sense to buy one here because the price difference is not huge.
USA is really losing a lot by not having the W705B's going on, if the cheaper alternative is a W605B then go W805B, W828B or W855B whereas here, I'd go W705 while taking a dump at said models, because if it's for gaming they're really no better.
TrojanBlade
Member
How are the samsung 120hz LED tvs for PS4? I am getting a good deal for Samsung UN55H6350 55-Inch 1080p 120Hz Smart LED
Any thoughts?
Any thoughts?
So there is a brand new LG 55" OLED coming out in a few weeks apparently exclusive at Best Buy for now. Supposedly 240hz and higher brightness than the last model... and it's only $3500.
That's an insane price considering its supposed to be gen 2 panel... if the motion is truly improved over last years...I think I might fucking bite... screw a larger screen size...
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/lg-55-c...846019.p?id=1219295374459&skuId=7846019&st=lg oled&cp=1&lp=1
That's an insane price considering its supposed to be gen 2 panel... if the motion is truly improved over last years...I think I might fucking bite... screw a larger screen size...
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/lg-55-c...846019.p?id=1219295374459&skuId=7846019&st=lg oled&cp=1&lp=1
Yeah, OR will be factored into any decision and will probably mean I stick with one screen. I'll see how the mood takes me.
I like this site, and haddn't stumbled on it doing all the research i've been doing. Disappointed they ignore Vizio displays, which some of have shown to be very decent gaming TVs. Thanks for this! You know if the Sony 600 and 800 models passthrough 5.1 to optical from HDMI?
OdysseusVA
Banned
It's a shame I can't find any 32" TVs that are as fast as my Panasonic and LG sets from 2009
eso76
Member
guys, i'm about to hit "buy now" on the 51F8500 (1300 )
Please, tell me all is good.
Also tell me i can connect:
PS4 - X360/Xbone - Raspberry - Cable TV to my Receiver and use receiver's output 1 to HDMI 1 (movie) and output 2 to HDMI 2 (PC)
OR, even better, use a splitter/doubler and have Receiver's output 1 go to HDMI 1 AND 2 at the same time, so i just have to switch inputs on the tv to change from movie mode to videogame mode.
Also, is the picture in PC mode much worse for movies anyway ?
Please, tell me all is good.
Also tell me i can connect:
PS4 - X360/Xbone - Raspberry - Cable TV to my Receiver and use receiver's output 1 to HDMI 1 (movie) and output 2 to HDMI 2 (PC)
OR, even better, use a splitter/doubler and have Receiver's output 1 go to HDMI 1 AND 2 at the same time, so i just have to switch inputs on the tv to change from movie mode to videogame mode.
Also, is the picture in PC mode much worse for movies anyway ?
Funnily enough I ordered a new 32" TV today for the racing cockpit to make the jump from 720p to 1080p. It's the Samsung UE32H5000. Supposed to be pretty good for gaming. Got it new for just over £180. Arriving tomorrow. If it's as good as they say I might buy a couple more ready for going triple-screen. The bezel is nice and slim.
My mum has the 48" H5500, which is basically that TV but with smart features. It's a brilliant TV and a very impressive image
I will follo wthis advice aand make a Sony 800b my next HDTV, 50" is great.
WIll change from Plasma to LCD since there ain't no more worthy plasmas no more.
Or Im wrong? I have currently a GT25 42" Panny.
Edit:
maybe the W600B is a good TV aswell, whats the difference?
Good to hear - thanks.
One thing's for sure: it'll be a big step up from the eight-year-old 720p SHARP LCD that's currently mounted.
Where did you buy it from? The cheapest I can find is £239. If I can get it for £180 I may get one to use in the spare bedroom
Use this to set it up: http://reviews.lcdtvbuyingguide.com/samsung-lcd-tv/samsung-h5500-picture-settings.html
I followed this and it made a big improvement in every area
Use this to set it up: http://reviews.lcdtvbuyingguide.com/samsung-lcd-tv/samsung-h5500-picture-settings.html
I followed this and it made a big improvement in every area
Insane Metal
Member
Holy shit.
I have a 32" W653A (bought it because of the good image and low input lag), but I went to buy something bigger yesterday. I ended up finding a 60" Sammy Plasma (PF5000) and fell in love immediately. It was on sale, it cost basically the same as the LED 42LB6500 from LG. Bought it. As soon as I turned it on...
THIS IS WHAT A PS4 SHOULD LOOK LIKE
Holy shit. Mind blown. I don't ever want an LED TV anymore. Plasma is glorious.
I have a 32" W653A (bought it because of the good image and low input lag), but I went to buy something bigger yesterday. I ended up finding a 60" Sammy Plasma (PF5000) and fell in love immediately. It was on sale, it cost basically the same as the LED 42LB6500 from LG. Bought it. As soon as I turned it on...
THIS IS WHAT A PS4 SHOULD LOOK LIKE
Holy shit. Mind blown. I don't ever want an LED TV anymore. Plasma is glorious.
The W605B has a Samsung panel, while the W705B has a AUO panel, so I suppose the input lag difference might be panel related.
Thanks for the picture settings. I just set it up on my racing rig and it looks superb.
I got it from AO.com. Phone them up and they'll price match Pixmania (£199 + £12 delivery from memory) and give you £30 cashback = £180-ish.
Very impressed with the service. Ordered Sunday night, got it today, phone call from delivery guy to give me an exact time, text confirmation. Great customer service so far. I also fell a little bit in love with the girl who dealt with me on the phone.
It's probably been mentioned already, but if you're in the market for a 42" TV for gaming, and you are in Europe, look no further than this:
Sony KDL42W705B
Looks to be the replacement to the Sony KDL-42W653, and has astonishingly low input lag and great image quality. I have the previous model and love it, and this seems even better, with 4 HDMI ports and lower input lag.
I have the 32in version, its rather awesome.
Insane Metal
Member
Just to complement my previous post, some pics
The 32" and the 60"... small difference lol
Some examples
The 32" and the 60"... small difference lol
Some examples
Holy shit.
I have a 32" W653A (bought it because of the good image and low input lag), but I went to buy something bigger yesterday. I ended up finding a 60" Sammy Plasma (PF5000) and fell in love immediately. It was on sale, it cost basically the same as the LED 42LB6500 from LG. Bought it. As soon as I turned it on...
THIS IS WHAT A PS4 SHOULD LOOK LIKE
Holy shit. Mind blown. I don't ever want an LED TV anymore. Plasma is glorious.
Hahah. Yes, it is extremely glorious. I love my 60" ST60 and the PS4 does amazing things on it. I went from a crappy 42" Phillips LCD to my Plasma and god, I'm still amazed by how it looks a year and a half later. I am completely broken hearted that Plasma has been basically abandoned at this point. Hopefully OLED matures enough before I ever have to replace it. Wishful thinking is that high quality 4K OLED is as reasonably priced as the ST60 was just about in time for the PS5 to come out.
Also - I am never, ever going smaller than 60". If anything I'll go even bigger next time!
Insane Metal
Member
BruiserBear
Banned
It's a shame to think you'll never know how your games are supposed to feel with all that input lag.
lostinblue
Banned
Oh, cmon.
Chances are he knows it's not the best TV regarding input lag on earth, and yes, it was also a deal breaker for me last year (as a matter of principle and because I run older consoles through a scaler chain), but it doesn't have to be said every-single-time in a depreciative manner - it's getting on my nerves at this point.
It's like bullying the Wii U, PS Vita or something, leave it alone, people know, you don't have to be that guy, always going out of your way to stress it.
Most TV's this gen lagged 4/5 frames (that's more than the ST60), even if they didn't most gamers experienced it because who sets up their TV for game mode? yup. Only if you've been reading the TV manual or things go haywire. (or you know what you're doing, which masses don't)
Hence, most recent games have a pretty lass latency going on, or, IF they are very latency hung they go 60 fps and reduce the lag on one of the biggest sources of lag, the console. People who play shmups and retro games who expected CRT TV's to lag 0 ms might have a thing or two to say about that, but otherwise the whole sob story was overblown and only happened because the ST50 was easily one of 2012's best gaming TV's available - ST60 wasn't.
People who have it are the ones who can decide wether it bothers them or not:
-> http://neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=88500488&postcount=2854
But it is usable, no doubt.
Nonsense. Input Lag ratings are extremely overvalued on this forum. There's jack all difference in playing something on my ST60 (and hdtvtest.uk thinks the Leo Bodnar tool doesn't work right on Panasonics anyways) and my NEC 20WMGX2 which has a much, much lower input lag rating.
If I was heavily into fighting games it'd be one thing, but I'm not. For me there's no difference when playing The Last of Us, or playing Super Mario 3D World, or Wolfenstein, or anything else like that for the games I play and it certainly doesn't matter for my plethora of RPGs.
Prophet Steve
Member
Oh thanks.
I play on monitors and everything and don't really notice a difference when playing on my ST60, but whatever, that doesn't matter. It is a pretty bad purchase because I am not playing my games like I am supposed to, even when I, you know, don't notice the difference.
Not saying that people can't notice the difference. I am sure some people are very sensitive for it.
And don't try saying I only play slow games or games that require less skill, because I can assure you that is not true.
Oh, and I even constantly forget to turn game mode on. What are you going to do about it?
I even compared it with the output on my WiiU pad. Tried playing with both, switching between them. And you know what? Poor me couldn't even notice the difference.
lostinblue
Banned
Ever since last year every one thinks they are hyper sensitive to input lag even though they weren't before... In fact, they didn't even know what the fuck it was.
And played games - obviously.
It's getting on my nerves for quite some time now, not because of the people that know a thing or two about it care, but because everyone now seems like an expert, and input lag killed their cats or something.
It was a factor before and it is a factor today don't get me wrong (game modes didn't appear last year, nor did lag measurements, but now we have sites that only list *that*), but real issue is that lag is additive, games lag, from the moment you press a button to something being on the verge of output on the console side that's an average of 4 frames which at 60 fps is 66 ms and at 30 fps is 133 ms (or the equivalent duration of 8 frames had it been 60 fps).
We have people buying horrible TV's (Toshiba) because they have low input lag now, that's right, they look at a table and decide that a horrible TV that usually blows up months after purchase is good because it sounds ok on paper looking at a single stupid criteria. I'd take the ST60 any day of the week and I only didn't because I decided to go for a VT65. (granted even the ST60 wasn't as cheap as a Toshiba, perhaps a X60, but you get my rift)
So usually one wouldn't want total lag to get over 200 ms, which is where TV lag gets in, it's a battle to not increase it too much, and it's easy to do the math why 33 ms is the gold standard, that's 166 ms total lag on a 60 fps game which is not too bad, still has a little leeway even.
Issue is, some games like GTAIV or Killzone 2 and 3 lag like a sloth in a hot day due to stupid post processing routines taken too far (ie: more than 166 ms), hence it's very hard for any TV out there not to hit a certain threshold, 0 ms screens would be ideal. But if the game is not lagged to start with, 0 ms or 33 ms or even a little higher... it's mostly the same for the person playing (we actually lag 80 miliseconds too!). Thankfully I don't think those post process mayhem decisions of stupidity will get repeated anytime soon, but I said that after Killzone 2+GTA4 and then Killzone 3 still happened (and still sold enough to go platinum).
This is the game's fault if you ask me because they did some stupid decisions there and deserve to be the lagged pieces of shit they are (no TV lagged 0 ms, obviously, and that didn't keep them from ignoring that fact in the name of pretty filters), but less lag on the TV might improve it.
Anyway, this is why FPS and competitive twitch games like Guitar Gero, Rock Band or whatever lately are 60 fps no matter what, precisely to keep the input lag on the console as low as possible.
lostinblue
Banned
Thing is, they weren't before.
It's a trend, got repeated so many times as the holy grail that people really believe it now.
I remember that PS3 doing PS2 upscale thread, it was perfect back then, almost as if PS3 was somehow re-rendering stuff as most didn't even realize in fact their entry range LCD TV's had crappy scalers going on which was why there was so much difference going on between having upscale on the console or not.
Input lag for that action is 4 extra frames of lag (66 ms) sum that up with the TV lag (who was often obscene on LCD HDTV's back then and would make the ST60 a award winning TV in that regard) and take into account that most games lag 133 ms on the PS2 too and there's no way it doesn't visibly lag and you'll no doubt feel it even on a 33 ms lag TV providing you play a fighting game you know, or something. Just not a slow game like a RPG and even then it's a "perhaps you won't notice" catch21, as no doubt you will if you look for it.
Fast forward to 2012 and no one gave a shit about Wii U upscaling Wii games, because TV scalers on entry level TV's improved in these years, this despite the fact that said upscaling (like the one on X360) doesn't add any lag.
It's fine either way, but fact is, a ridiculously lagged solution was praised and akin to heaven on earth 7 years ago and coming out of the CRT era (what I'm saying is: everyone had a CRT with 0 ms lag not long before that), but somehow now, lagging a little more than ideal is the end. LOL.
Feeling is in the eye of the beholder, like that study about sleeping pills where users were given the very same shit in blue and red coloured variants and claimed the blue ones were more effective. (I don't get why viagra is blue though)
BruiserBear
Banned
Last year? Speak for yourself. I've been aware of input lag for many years now. Ever since I bought a Vizio without being careful years ago, and it had 65ms of input lag. I played games on it for a month and thought things seemed okayish. Then one day I played Call of Duty on a smaller tv in the house, and immediately I knew something was different. The game felt quicker, and more responsive. That was when I learned about input lag. It was making my games actually "feel" different. That was a revelation to me.
What changed in the last year was the tv review sites finally realizing input lag was a big deal, and worth talking about. So finally the general public is becoming educated on it, somewhat....
And this is a misconception that people have on this issue, and unfortunately many of these review sites misinform people about, by saying things like "low input lag really only matters for twitch shooters".
Staying below 200ms is not relevant. What's relevant is what the game designers wanted their game to feel like. They decided to make a 30fps game, or a 60fps game, and every decision was made around that framerate and the way the game was going to feel when you controlled it in your hands. You want a tv that does the least to come between the game and your interaction with it. Adding 60ms of lag between you and the game is instantly changing the way the game is going to feel to you. A game that is supposed to feel lightning quick, now feels kind of quick. That game that was supposed up feel smooth and natural, now feels a little heavier, and lumbering. That game that already had a weighty feel, now feels really heavy and slow. Encounters with enemies can be tougher, because the enemies were designed to be reacted to at a certain speed. It literally has an effect on every aspect of the single most important part of most video games, your interaction with them. That's what sets video games apart from every other form of entertainment.
I apologize for being so blunt about my feelings on this issue, and I don't wish to ruin anyone's enjoyment of their tv, but I feel like there are very few knowledgable sources on this topic, and there are a whole bunch of half informed tv writers who decide to impart their input lag wisdom on the masses.
lostinblue
Banned
So did I, as I think was left implicit.
I care a shitload more about input lag than I should, like everyone else lately, thing is most people don't really have a reason to go that route. I do have it at least on paper as I like to feed processing chains to my TV meant for my older consoles who expect input lag to be zero, so if my chain lags 33 ms, I don't want my TV to add a lot on top.
This whole fixation on my account is silly because I end up playing on my CRT's all the time.
I do notice input lag in other instances of course, but that doesn't mean the whole thing didn't get overblown quite a bit lately. People are playing PS4 on their Vitas via remote play with as much as 240ms of lag (latest Killzone, what else?) and they don't even care. Most people only care if they get told it's higher than average due to pride and ego or something, like they're not getting their money's worth.
Anyway, I don't go out of my way to tell people the TV they own is crap, even because in the case of a ST60 it really isn't even if it favours the Image Quality more than it does response time. But even if it was, I could mention it generically like I did with the Toshibas just now... But I wouldn't reply to someone to say it or mention it while I knew said person was reading, not without sugar coating it. I realize you admitted you were a bit too blunt in your last post so I won't press any further. Sorry for being so insistent there but it really touched my buttons as inconvenient.
Since we're at this, this is useful for ST60 owners:
Minimum lag is actually not as high as some reviews said (I recall some were over the moon, real world seems to be ~54ms or so?), thing is some dudes didn't really test it extensively to come to other conclusions, just like those Samsung TV reviews where the dudes don't know the PC trick and hence only state the game mode lag, which it's not indicative, not necessarily (for the 2014 model year it seems like it is, though).
Do they actually say that? No one would have guessed going by the whole ultra low input lag or bust phenomena.
People think input lag matters for playing chess these days.
Staying bellow the point where lag is noticeable is relevant which is what we've been saying since the beginning.
More than 200 ms of lag only won't matter for a turn based RPG without combos, or something. I'm also not claiming 200 ms to be some magic number, but it is a spot where most people will notice lag.
So if a game lags too much from the get go, the developers did some pretty poor decisions and I don't think that can be forgiven because every time they decided to go said route it was in the name of better graphics who'll be outdated really fast anyway, not-so-great-for-the-time graphics don't keep a game from being a classic, bad response time does. It's lack of vision incarnated, IMO.
Fact is, if you're a developer and your game lags a lot on normal TV's (not ultra fast ones, normal ones) while on game mode then it is your fault, you didn't design your software with what 90% of the people have at home.
Coincidentally, the point you're making can be very nuanced, because most games this gen have been made with latency openings large enough to allow for quite a bit of lag on the TV set, or they would be unplayable. It would feel like the game is punishing you or something and most would just ragequit.
You could say they were designed for laggy TV's in the same way old school fast action games expected nothing more than 0 ms of lag, which keeps some games from being very playable on a HDTV.
Less lag won't make it less playable, but it might make it different than it was balanced for nonetheless (giving you lots of time to press a certain key, I love it on QTE's and shit like that might I add), not that I care, as less is better in my book, but you get my rift. We don't know what the game developers wanted the game to feel like, or with what in mind did they balance it's gameplay... But they probably didn't balance it for a PC monitor or a Sony W705B.
The difference is too big to be just that as we're talking about more than 10 ms, which is a lot to attribute to panel response time alone. If they're EH5xxx/F5xxx/H5xxx panels then pixel g2g ghosting time should be 10 ms which is good, same models with AUO screens usually lag 12 ms in g2g transitions.
They're inherently different inside.
Since we're at this, this is useful for ST60 owners:
Minimum lag is actually not as high as some reviews said, thing is some dudes didn't really test it extensively to come to other conclusions, just like those Samsung TV reviews were the dudes don't know the PC trick and hence only state the game mode lag, it's not indicative, not necessarily.Do they actually say that? No one would have guessed going by the whole ultra low input lag or bust phenomena.
Well, that makes a lot more sense. Probably why I didn't feel it vs other displays too (though probably would vs a 0ms CRT). Lines up with people on the avsforum finding the best sync for their receivers to be closer to a 50ms setting too. It's definitely not some terrible, sluggish experience and I think anyone that actually owns one would agree.