ACH1LL3US
Member
Samsung s32e590c, no input lag and static contrast ratio of 5000:1 VA panel. Best buy and newegg carry it
Plasma, LCD, OLED, LED, best tv for next gen
- Thread starter spannicus
- Start date
Samsung s32e590c, no input lag and static contrast ratio of 5000:1 VA panel. Best buy and newegg carry it
IIRC, power law for the very first calibration, and sliding for the second and third. He mentioned the latest calibration only really touches 2.4 around 50/60/70 IRE, and goes all the way up to about 2.6 at higher values, and down to 2.1 at the lower end.
It's awesome that you've got the tools. I've thought about buying the equipment myself, but then I would probably tinker with calibrations to no end and never get to sit down and actually watch anything, you know?
Thanks.
The JS9500 will be a noticeable improvement compared to edge-lit LCD models due to FALD with 150 zones on the 65" model. Each zone can turn off to create true black equal to OLED but there are caveats to that. If there is contrasting picture within a zone, it will not be able to turn off and you get a black that is noticeably lighter than true black. This creates a blooming effect you can see below.
An AVS member posted this. JS9500 on the left with an edge-lit HU9000 on the right.
A noticeable improvement but you can see the blooming effect near the lettering where the zones cannot turn off. If you can live with that and limited viewing angles compared to the OLED then it's pretty much just pick your poison. There is no perfect set. It's what issues would you rather put up with at a given price.
DJ Lushious
Member
$2500 USD for the JS9500?! If you're not dead set on OLED that is one helluva steal!
Tatsumi Oga
Banned
Not shocking at all, I have OLED light at 100 too
I use OLED 100 / Contrast 70 / Brightness 55
lowering brightness to 41 crushes blacks on test patterns like this one:
What's your contrast at?
So today i checked out the calibration thingy on Xbox One and yep, with brightness at 41 i am indeed losing detail, i could not see the eye icon, which is not good. I do like how dark the nights are in GTA V, Witcher 3 and other games, but it clearly is not how the developer intended it to be.
I love this TV and it's good that TV's nowadays have so many settings you can tweak, but for someone like me it's a gift AND a curse, so i just keep messing around and won't simply settle on something. That's my problem and i hate that about myself, lol. Ah well, one day....i will just quit changing settings and STICK with something, shit.
I believe changing the input name is not supposed to bring any changes, changing input icon to PC will though. I've been trying the combo of PC + Game mode again today and for a low input lag it's perfect. You just can't change much settings, none of the things like Super Resolution (i can live with that though) but also no colour tweaking.
Guys, what gamma is most recommended to use? i've always thought default (2.2) was the best, but there's also 2.4.
lifeexpectancy
Member
I keep hearing about this banding issue on the OLED. Either my eyes suck, or I just got lucky with a great panel, or it has something to do with how people are configuring it. Because I have no visible banding whatsoever. The only screen uniformity issues I can see are on a full-screen grey field, which never happens during normal viewing/gaming.
2.4 is better in my experience.I love this TV and it's good that TV's nowadays have so many settings you can tweak, but for someone like me it's a gift AND a curse, so i just keep messing around and won't simply settle on something. That's my problem and i hate that about myself, lol. Ah well, one day....i will just quit changing settings and STICK with something, shit.
Guys, what gamma is most recommended to use? i've always thought default (2.2) was the best, but there's also 2.4.
And as for constantly tweaking settings: that's actually a good / normal thing - particularly as you go through many hours of use - you'll notice some changes to the image over time that will require re-calibration (and that's not to mention that you'll always want to tweak based on what you're viewing - particularly so on the gaming side; less so with movies).
Bornstellar
Member
So today i checked out the calibration thingy on Xbox One and yep, with brightness at 41 i am indeed losing detail, i could not see the eye icon, which is not good. I do like how dark the nights are in GTA V, Witcher 3 and other games, but it clearly is not how the developer intended it to be.
I love this TV and it's good that TV's nowadays have so many settings you can tweak, but for someone like me it's a gift AND a curse, so i just keep messing around and won't simply settle on something. That's my problem and i hate that about myself, lol. Ah well, one day....i will just quit changing settings and STICK with something, shit.
I believe changing the input name is not supposed to bring any changes, changing input icon to PC will though. I've been trying the combo of PC + Game mode again today and for a low input lag it's perfect. You just can't change much settings, none of the things like Super Resolution (i can live with that though) but also no colour tweaking.
Guys, what gamma is most recommended to use? i've always thought default (2.2) was the best, but there's also 2.4.
On this set, 2.4 is actually closer to the true 2.2 curve.
Don't see it either on my EC9300 in regular content. On a grey field image, it is visible, but there's always going to be some test patterns that expose flaws in any display. Not to mention a lot of LCDs are worse off with banding issues.
Karl_Dilkington7
Banned
If anybody has the Vizio M series, I just bought an HDMI that supports 18GPS (I plugged into HDMI port 5) and the nvidia driver still crashes when I select 2160p at 60hz (I have a GTX 970). I've tried reinstalling the drivers and that doesn't help. Is there a setting on the TV or PC I should enable? I'm slowly starting to give up lol.
Here is a picture of what happens when I select 2160p at 60hz.
http://s13.postimg.org/x7vbz2jfr/Malfuntion2160p.png
Here is a picture of what happens when I select 2160p at 60hz.
http://s13.postimg.org/x7vbz2jfr/Malfuntion2160p.png
Xbudz
Member
Yikes. Mine just worked without having to add custom resolutions.
I have M Series M55-c1, and the GTX 970.. but I'm on Windows 10 (not sure if that matters)
The only thing I did was turn on Game Low Latency in the settings because without it I get mouse lag. Most def getting 60hz @ 4096 x 2160.
Karl_Dilkington7
Banned
I had no idea this TV could do 4096 x 2160. I see that I can select 60hz but I still run into the same problem. I also have Game Low Latency turned on as well. I went to AVS forums and check and see if my cable were the culprit, however someone had the exact same cable as mine and could run 2160p at 60hz. So now I'm thinking it's either the GPU driver, the TV itself, or the GPU itself. Unless Windows 7 64-bit has a problem with running 2160p at 60hz, could that be the problem?
MAX PAYMENT
Member
Bought the Vizio M55-C2. Love it! All the cons about the tv I read are noticeable to the ultra-picky videophile. Great tv.
I'm having trouble getting my n64 to work on it though. Any suggestions?
I'm having trouble getting my n64 to work on it though. Any suggestions?
Tatsumi Oga
Banned
That's true, but damn...for now i should just stick with something and enjoy it. Which i've been doing this evening, with new settings
I am now using PC mode + Expert 1 and i used all the colour settings from here:
http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/ec9300/settings
I changed Sharpness from 0 to 10 or 15, Super Resolution to medium, colour to 65 and that's about it. I think i also changed colour temperature to warm 1 or medium. Both movies/shows and games look natural now, now exeggerated colours or anything, it's very similar to Gamersyde videos and just developer videos.
Great, then i'll go with that.
draughn101
Member
That's true, but damn...for now i should just stick with something and enjoy it. Which i've been doing this evening, with new settings
I am now using PC mode + Expert 1 and i used all the colour settings from here:
http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/ec9300/settings
I changed Sharpness from 0 to 10 or 15, Super Resolution to medium, colour to 65 and that's about it. I think i also changed colour temperature to warm 1 or medium. Both movies/shows and games look natural now, now exeggerated colours or anything, it's very similar to Gamersyde videos and just developer videos.
Great, then i'll go with that.
Are you still getting the awesome night scenes in GTA? I played today with your old settings, didn't get to nighttime, but was looking at some graffiti on a wall for about 10 minutes. The game in general looks great on this tv. Everything pops much better than my Vizio.
Tatsumi Oga
Banned
Yeah, i went with brightness at 45. I found 50 or above (like Rtings did) too bright for nighttime in games like Witcher 3 and GTA V. Nighttime actually looks better than when it's at 41, you definitely lose detail and the black crush just looks off. brightness at 45 seems quite fine, with Xbox One color space at standard, TV's black level at low.
You went with my previous settings?
draughn101
Member
Yeah, i went with brightness at 45. I found 50 or above (like Rtings did) too bright for nighttime in games like Witcher 3 and GTA V. Nighttime actually looks better than when it's at 41, you definitely lose detail and the black crush just looks off. brightness at 45 seems quite fine, with Xbox One color space at standard, TV's black level at low.
You went with my previous settings?
I've been using the previous settings and haven't tinkered too much. Movies look incredible on those settings and the games are great too. I was watching an interrogation scene in Gotham and had to call my wife in it looked so good. I'll figure out the episode and time stamp and send it your way. It's incredible on this tv.
I'll give the new settings a shot and see how they feel.
Tatsumi Oga
Banned
Oh wow, i have yet to properly watch a movie on it. With properly i mean..a Blu Ray, not streaming from Netflix. I do have The Dark Knight on BR, so i should pop that in tomorrow.
At the end of the day, i think both these settings are quite similar. I could be wrong, but probably especially for movies/shows they will be different from eachother, but today when i switched from PC+Expert 1 to just Game mode, i honestly did not notice much differences, but if i had to guess ...PC+Expert 1 is just a tiny bit better looking, still hard to say when it's not exactly side by side.
Often i am surprised by settings on these websites and forums where they have sharpness at 0, and no other picture improvement settings, i do like some of them. I tried out Rtings' settings today in both a Netflix show (Hell on Wheels) and gaming, and the show looked nice, but games simply lacked something, it looked too soft for my liking. So i put sharpness at 10, super resolution at low or medium and that made a big difference. At the end of the day...these things are all subjective.
Haint
Member
What brand is your 970 (i.e. MSI, Gigabyte, Etc..)? You googled it to see if anyone else is having problems running 4k/60 on it? Is there a GPU bios update available for it? Also, maybe try every single HDMI port on the TV just to be sure? Excepting that, it's probably some deeply rooted software issue that reinstalling the driver's not fixing (like a fucked registry setting or something). You have another computer (friends? families? laptop?) capable of 4k you could try?
lifeexpectancy
Member
Unless you're referring to the 65" OLED, that info is wrong. The 55" EF9500 is only $3000 not $4000.
The 65" is $5000 though, so if you can get a 65" Samsung JS9500 for $2500 then yeah, that's a steal. Otherwise if it's a 55" set it's only a $500 price difference from the OLED.
I actually owned a 2008-model Panasonic Viera. It was a great set and served me well for all these years, but it doesn't hold a candle to the OLED. The OLED rivals the best, flagship plasmas like the Kuro, and for far FAR less money.
Unless I've missed a subsequent post from you, you might want to change those settings quite a bit. Brightness really doesn't need to be above 45, while OLED light being higher (say 70ish) will make the contrast settings more apparent without washing things out. Turning up brightness above 50 tends to wash out the image a little from what I've seen.
draughn101
Member
I'll get those settings punched in tomorrow. It looks like there's a bunch. It'll probably be better for the tv not to have the OLED light cranked up anyway.
As far as content, my Apple TV does a terrible job streaming but most the time Netflix on my Xbox looks perfect. And that first scene on the dark knight is sweet. If you really want to blow your mind go and get Mad Max Fury Road....
FrankNitty
Member
Umm no. This is based off a pluge pattern at 2.4 gamma. What makes you think that it would need to be changed?
Ideally it will change for a few reasons. Such as drift also I'm going to a sliding power gamma. You don't need OLED light that high. It negatively effect the lower end of the 20pt controls. Also I'm at 56fL which is plenty bright
It's actually not washing anything out, and it's actually missing near black shadow detail, which is why I'm changing to a sliding power gamma, as I initially did, power law 2.4 then re calibrated doing a sliding 2.4.
Trust me nothing is being washed out lol
Did you calibrate yours? If so why do you have OLED light so high? Did it not effect your 20pt lower end?
If anything having brightness that low and OLED light that high gamma is probably off, or you are totally crushing near black completely. What does your pluge pattern display?
Do you mind posting your settings? My 9300 arrives next Monday and I want to be prepared as soon as I get it out of the box.
Just wanted to chime in and say that 10 (sharpness) is actually "0"/neutral/correct sharpness on these LG sets, and therefore is the right setting. This is according to Bumtious. 0 is the equivalent to -10, so why Rtings have put it to 0, I've no idea.
As you might tell, I've been reading way too much about these OLED sets. I don't even own one. Yet.
This could be fun. Does he know what a pluge pattern is, has he calibrated his set at all, is he one of those who crushes blacks and loves the PQ? So many questions!
FrankNitty
Member
I could but it doesn't really work that way.
Settings vary from display to display of the same model and size. The differences can be as great as about 20% in readings when measured.
Thats why settings don't really copy over from one display to another so copying someones settings is pretty much a waste. Because if someone has a calibrated set it is calibrated to their viewing environment, such as lighting conditions, windows, etc. Copying someones settings can get you close but never spot on or can even make it worse. So when people say they calibrated their display and really just copied someones settings they don't get what calibration actually is. Nothing wrong with copying settings but it's not getting you the picture you should in most cases.
There are some general aspects that are true with certain models, but nothing is the same. So even though my settings are one way for my 65EF9500, someone else's will probably be very different on someone elses 65EF9500. Also between the 55 and 65, EG and EF, and so on.
Plus you are getting a 9300, I have a 9500. So I mean if you really want them I'll give them to you but they may not work out for you.
Some things that hold true across most of the OLED's are 2.4 and warm 2 track closest to D65. You can easily get 50fL on 100% white with OLED Light below 50 (easily), Contrast between 75-85 is the treshold before it causes havoc on the gray scale, 20pt controls on the low end can get weird on you if you have OLED light or contrast too high, which will effect your gamma. Gamma preset 2.4 tracks closer to 2.38 9at least in my case it did. Gamma preset BT.1886 tracks at about 2.3 and 2.2 on the low end. If you look at an APL clipping pattern you will probably only see 19+.
I would suggest using pluge patterns to set your basic settings on Expert 1 with this stuff in mind and go from there.
lifeexpectancy
Member
In response to this (and the poster below you who seems ready and willing to mock me, although I appreciate the fact that you chose the high road), no I have not calibrated mine professionally. I don't know what a pluge pattern is. I don't know what the 20pt lower end is.
If I'd known you were such an expert on TV calibration, I wouldn't have made the suggestion. That's a serious statement and not intended as mockery or sarcasm. You really do seem to know a lot more than I ever will know or care to know about TV calibration. For me, having brightness above 50 makes the image look washed out. I go based on my own personal preferences, and so long as I can see the relevant details in dark scenes in games (my primary use for the set), I'm good.
Is my set perfectly tuned to faithfully recreate the master vision of the videographer in films or the equivalent in game development studios? Probably not. But it works for me. Like I said, my suggestion was just based off what the brightness settings look like to my naked eye.
As for the OLED light, yeah it probably doesn't need to be super high. I only had it set to 60 for the first week or so I owned the set, but have been experimenting with different settings, and sometimes like it turned up around 70 depending on what game I'm playing.
Nice uncalled-for snark. This thread is generally a great resource and a great place for like-minded individuals to share settings. That nose-thumbing bullshit isn't needed here. Continuing with that attitude toward other forum members who haven't warranted it is a great way to abruptly end your time on GAF. Speaking of which, if you joined nearly two years ago, why are you still a junior? Did you get demoted for similar posts elsewhere? Didn't check your post history just noticed your join date and found it odd, since IIRC its 3months or 300 posts to transition from junior to member.
Caayn
Member
Just Europa that's been announced so far. No news yet about the US, at least not as far as I know.
Isn't it 3 months and 300 posts?
So, after installing W8 from scratch using the PC monitor I managed to make things work although I only tried over the receiver PC HDMI input (Onkyo TX-NR646) and didn't connect the PC directly to the TV. I'm using the DVI to HDMI cable. When I enter the nvidia contro panel (with the latest available driver, 341.81)
I can see that in the different resolutions, the one stated as native is 3840x2160 but once I select it and apply, the TV becomes black and after a while the picture is displayed again and the resolution is set by default to 1920x1080 as if the receiver/TV didn't support it.
Please note that the graphic card detects the receiver as the monitor and not the TV.
Since I have both HDMI outputs active in the receiver, could it be that the receiver limits the resolution to 1920x1080 if both HDMI outputs are on?
Thank you. Seriously though, it wasn't intended as such. You obviously don't know me, but I am in fact very interested in this specific topic, so believe it or not, I am in fact genuinely looking forward to the other poster's response. The "is he this or that" was tongue in cheek on my part, and was not an attempt to belittle anyone, and I'm sorry that flew over your head. English isn't my first language, so I can concede that I perhaps could've worded myself differently. I see now that I should've put a more positive example in there, like "is he a professional calibrator?" I'll do that next time. Thank you so much for your concern, though.
You'd have to ask someone else why I'm a junior and not a member. Might not have enough posts yet. I have not been demoted for "similar posts", no. So, are we done here?
Edit: While I wrote this, I was not aware that the poster in question was you.
Monty Mole
Member
I've got my OLED light on 40, which is still much brighter than the brightest my VT65 plasma will go. Can't imagine wanting it on anything higher than 40, it just starts to negatively affect picture quality and causes eye strain. Those of you with it set to 60+, just try living with it on 40 for an evening and you'll soon get used to it and grow to like it, even if it seems dark at first.
EDIT: I don't have the brightest of rooms though, but even in a bright setting I wouldn't want it on more than 50.
This is GAF not AVForums.
lifeexpectancy
Member
Your original post came off very snarky, not tongue-in-cheek. This one came off even worse, especially the (edit) portion. So yes, we're done here, although feel free to have the last word, as I'll no longer be responding in kind and rather sticking to the thread topic.
I'll give it a shot. I do have a pretty bright viewing area most of the time, because my wife likes to turn the island lights on, which shine directly onto the TV face. I can't see going below 50 or 55, except at night when all the lights are off, but I'll try it and see how it feels.
Seems to be some differing opinions on the XB1's settings too, though. I've heard conflicting opinions on whether it's best to set the XB1's settings to limited or to PC RGB, and based on that which settings for black levels to set the OLED at in the menus. I'd be interested on a consensus of what the least black-crushing settings are, while still maintaining pretty high contrast for gaming.
Tatsumi Oga
Banned
Oh man i definitely would, but the thing is..i am very very low on money right now. I can only go for Halo 5 next week, and more importantly my doggy is having some problems, so that means regular vet visits for a while.
Oh that's great to know. I didn't know that. Thanks man.
I have the brightness at 45 now, but i definitely am losing detail if i use the Xbox One calibration app. Of course i could change the brightness in most games, but not in movies. 45 does bring you the nice looking nights in GTA V and Witcher 3 though, with the game's brightness on default.
Pagusas
Elden Member
the samsung 9500 would be your rmost future proof. an Oled, even though made by LG, currently will produce the most jaw dropping picture.
Now is just not a good time to be buying a TV.
Is there something specific I should wait for?
LordOfChaos
Member
Vizio E50-C1, yay, nay? Being billed as a really good budget gaming set
http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/vizio/e-series-2015?uxtv=0fbb
My main annoyance is the fake 120Hz, but by all reviews the faked number still produces very good ratings on input lag and motion clarity (not much motion trailing).
http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/vizio/e-series-2015?uxtv=0fbb
My main annoyance is the fake 120Hz, but by all reviews the faked number still produces very good ratings on input lag and motion clarity (not much motion trailing).
Darryl M R
Member
When should people pull the trigger? I thought I was going to buy a Sony TV but it has horrible bleeding issues. . hoping they fix it because I would like to be in Sony ecosystem with the dual display and other features.
Pagusas
Elden Member
Next year August, 2nd gen HDR screens (1st from some manufacturers) will be hitting, OLED's will be coming out from all the major manufacturers (Anything to get us away from LG is good), Prices on 4k will be hitting full mainstream stabilization, and full array backlighting in LCD's will be trickling further down to the mid levels.
Basically if you want HDR: Buy next year
If you want OLED: Buy next year (or 2017 and get a hold over screen now)
If you want 4k: Buy now or next year
Now is just a bad time due to all the major advances still being behind the flagship price points, OLED is getting good but still restricted to smaller sizes (65 and below) and no HDR support yet in current models. YOU WANT HDR, its gorgeous. You also want 10-bit panels. So either wait, or be annoyed in a year when all these amazing displays and content are popping up and yours either cant display it, or can but you spent 2k more for the privilege before any content was even available to use it.
FrankNitty
Member
It all comes down to what you like by eye. Some people do not like a calibrated picture others do. Its all good do what works for you. You're the one watching it. I wasn't trying to be a dick I was just trying to figure out how you came to that conclusion.
As for the things I asked. A pluge pattern is that pattern you sometimes see that is of the scale that shows reference black and % above and below black.
I use a few different ones to verify, but the most common one would be the black clipping test where you see 2-16 (16 being reference black) and 17-25. If you have brightness set correctly you shouldn't see 16 flash, only 17. You may have a small amount of something in 16 but only visible when your nose to screen, and it depends on how your controls work. So if you test that for instance and you are cruching near black you probably wont see 17, 18, 19.
The 20 pt lower end is where you have 5% increments of black to white. where you can adjust read, green, blue to adjust the white balance at each step.
Yeah I'm going to do a night one at 36fL. My ZT60 is at 34.8fL, and that is fine for me. 500M is at 40. This I bumped up because my wife is home during the day now and we have a window directly across from it. The AR is actually pretty good though. When I recal I will probably lower to about 49fL
As long as you have reference black set correctly, you have infinite contrast. You don't need to crush near black to increase contrast. Crushing near black defeats the purpose of having an OLED if you do not set reference black correctly. This is based off a standard though, if you don't like the look of that its fine, I'm just saying that is how it works.
Generally, hav eyour TV black level set to LOW, and the Xbox set to limited. That is video, 16-235. Full is 0-255 which is full RGB. They should match between your devices.
The EF9500 is 2.0a, HDR, 10bit panel. It supports the same HDR standard that is required of UHD Blu Ray. Its about as future proof as you can get without having full P3 and DCI, rec 2020. So it will do HDR over HDMI in the spec that UHD Blu ray will be outputting.
lifeexpectancy
Member
Lots of awesome info there man, thanks for that. Yeah you weren't sounding like an asshole at all, which is why I prefaced my reply the way I did.
I was just gonna comment to that other guy that the 2015 LG OLEDs can, in fact, do HDR but I didn't want to come off sounding silly in case I was wrong. Thanks for clearing that up.
Melon Husk
Member
Even motion resolution? I think not. It's sample-and-hold, so it needs black frame insertion or frame interpolation.
Karl_Dilkington7
Banned
It's a EVGA Superclocked 970. I have googled and I've used Display Driver Uninstaller to completely uninstall the driver and I also believe it removed the driver from the registry. What odd is that sometimes it will restart if I select 2160p at 60Hz. I though that would be PSU problem, however I downsample from 4k all the time. I also can't select 4:2:2 chroma in 2160p at 30Hz (2160p at 30Hz works fine without it). Could it be malware causing the issue?
Update: I think I "sorta" fixed it. I can run games at 2160p @ 60hz now, but only in games/programs. If I try to change the resolution through Nvidia control panel, the driver will crash. I confirmed by looking at the System Information tab and seeing that it was running at 2160p at 60Hz. I'm now thinking it's definitely a driver issue and it lowers the color space to RGB at Limited as well in games/programs. At least I'm making progress now and now know I don't have to return the TV.
Pagusas
Elden Member
Only reasons I havnt jumped on the 9500 is its too small, wont go smaller than 75", and its LG, but thats my own personal hatred thing that doesnt have a baring on anyone else. Though I did not know they upgraded it to have HDR support. Is that a recent update? I thought it was like 400nitts short of the brightness requirement.
Tatsumi Oga
Banned
Ok guys, this is a bit odd. I don't have any timers enabled or whatsoever, yet after several hours it says it's going to turn off automatically in 5 minutes and I see no way to turn that off. But how?
FrankNitty
Member
It's like 300 away from requirement of dolby vision, but not that far from the spec iirc. I'll have to check to be sure. But it has something all of the other displays don't. infinite contrast. Just for the fact that it can display true absolute black it having lower nits is not totally a handycap, since it's contrast is so good.
As for it being upgraded. It wasn't an update or an upgrade. It released like that. It had everything it needed built in from start.
draughn101
Member
That's pretty weird. Maybe turn the timers on and then back off.
So I threw in those settings today and it looks pretty great, although it's a tad on the yellow side. Text in the Xbox dashboard and faces are just a touch off. How do I correct that? Are you using standard or rgb?