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[TLZ]

I've decided to wait a couple of years before buying an OLED, but still need a decent 4K/HDR TV in the meantime. I have a hard time deciding which to go for, though, especially when factoring in input lag. Right now I'm looking at:

- Samsung 55" KS8000 (EU version): ~ 1735 USD, ~ 1347 GBP

- Samsung 55" KS9000 (curved) (EU version): ~ 2038 USD, ~ 1580 GBP

- Panasonic 58" DX750 (Digital Foundry's TV/recommendation): ~ 1918 USD, ~ 1487 GBP

- Sony XD80/XD8000 55": ~ 1319 USD, ~ 1022 GBP

Any thoughts, advice, recommendations?

I think you mean the X800D? I'd say KS8000 for better input lag in game mode even with HDR on. Also a better one overall. Sony's isn't bad as it has OK input lag in the 30s with better motion blur.

Compare the two here:

http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/samsung/ks8000

http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/x800d

 

[holygeesus]

I want to note, for all the FUD regarding the input lag on the B6, I got the 55" model at a good price on amazon, and I have no issue playing Project Diva X on it, and I'm coming from a W800B and previously a KRP-500M. So I'd say make damn sure you're sensitive to input lag on that level before you close yourself off.

I've found naming the input device for your games console/PC as 'PC' also cuts down input lag further on my B6 (as is historically the case for LG TVs). It is absolutely fine for gaming. If you are a 'competitive gamer' you aren't going to be happy with any 4K TV pretty much, an HDR will never be an option for you.

 

[inner-G]

I understand your TV is broken, but you could get a much better TV in that price range in about two months.

I can't go two months without a TV!

It'll be way better than my Vizio e550i-b2, and I don't really see my self needing good HDR soon since I don't plan on getting a PS4 Pro or One S. Now I'll be playing Skyrim Remastered in 1440p on my comfy couch

 

[Art Vandilay]

I can't go two months without a TV!

It'll be way better than my Vizio e550i-b2, and I don't really see my self needing good HDR soon since I don't plan on getting a PS4 Pro or One S. Now I'll be playing Skyrim Remastered in 1440p on my comfy couch

I'd personally buy a much cheaper TV set then, or at least one I could return/exchange just before Black Friday sales. Just trying to help.

 

[Fenom]

Hi all, currently looking at picking up a new TV around the 50" mark. With a budget of £600-£700.
A quick question too, how do you know what models are the faux-K ones?
This TV is more of a stop gap until OLED and 10 bit HDR is more readily available in a few years.

PANASONIC VIERA TX50DX700B

SAMSUNG UE50JU6800

SAMSUNG UE49KU6400

LG 49UH750V

What model would you choose from these options? Gaming isn't a priority so low input lag
isn't relevant, however the best picture quality is what I'm looking for. Any other options around this price?

 

[Lucifon]

I put the TV in actual HDR mode (not using the picture settings). You can do it using Nvidia's HDR SDK. Game mode is not available when in HDR, there's only three presets: HDR Bright, HDR Vivid, and HDR Standard

It's the same presets I have when running HDR movie content, as well.

For what it's worth I ran a stopwatch test with my X34 and the TV in HDR mode, and saw a 48ms difference. The X34 itself has ~5ms input lag. There's a lot of settings that get enabled when HDR in on like Super Resolution (sharpening filter), True Motion etc.. I turned all that off.

Hmm I can't find any kind of HDR mode on my TV other than the fake SDR to HDR picture mode. Does it only display when viewing HDR content?

 

[Theonik]

Hmm I can't find any kind of HDR mode on my TV other than the fake SDR to HDR picture mode. Does it only display when viewing HDR content?

HDR is triggered by feeding the screen HDR content.

 

[Magic Mushroom]

I've found naming the input device for your games console/PC as 'PC' also cuts down input lag further on my B6 (as is historically the case for LG TVs). It is absolutely fine for gaming. If you are a 'competitive gamer' you aren't going to be happy with any 4K TV pretty much, an HDR will never be an option for you.

Never? One would hope input lag and HDR improves in newer models.

 

[Afrikan]

8bit this 10bit that... my Sony w900a is 12bit, but what do I need to do to take advantage of that? I have my PS4 outputting in 12bit, but is there anything else out there.

to make FULL use of its capabilities?

I'm getting LG E6/C6 in a few months, but I'm curious what the PlayStation Pro can do with my TV...or realistically speaking, how upcoming 1080p Pro games with enhanced features will look on it.

 

[Devil]

I want to note, for all the FUD regarding the input lag on the B6, I got the 55" model at a good price on amazon, and I have no issue playing Project Diva X on it, and I'm coming from a W800B and previously a KRP-500M. So I'd say make damn sure you're sensitive to input lag on that level before you close yourself off.

It was on sale yesterday at amazon.de for 2600 or 2700€. It's damn hard to restrain myself and your comment makes me think I made a mistake by not getting it yesterday xD

I am actually not sure how much I would notice the increased lag. I currently have a 2010 Panasonic Plasma which is supposed to be pretty good in that regard so there would likely be a relatively big increase. I like fighting games a lot and try to get good at them, but I'm not on a very high level in any game. So I have no idea whether I would notice or get annoyed by it. Or in games like Soulsborne. The missing data for 4k HDR lag is also an issue.

 

[holygeesus]

Never? One would hope input lag and HDR improves in newer models.

I'm talking about twitch gamers, who run games at 480p, turn off all details in game etc, to give them the edge in competitive games. I jest, but if you are one of those who needs every frame, then I can't see HDR gaming ever being for you.

TVs aren't *really* designed for gaming as a priority are they? Surely a real hardcore pro gamer will always buy a dedicated monitor. For the average gamer, even current models are fine for HDR gaming.

 

[Militaratus]

Never? One would hope input lag and HDR improves in newer models.

You don't understand, you can never be satisfied with a ~20ms Input Lag. That Excellent Rating on DisplayLag, nothing but false hope and lies!!!

8bit this 10bit that... my Sony w900a is 12bit, but what do I need to do to take advantage of that? I have my PS4 outputting in 12bit, but is there anything else out there.

That 12bit you see is Audio Bit Depth, not Color Space XD And to take advantage of that is you need good speakers and decoder

 

[memecomplex]

Low input lag isn't just for competitive gaming. It's the sheer connectedness you feel to everything that you do and what happens on screen. Pure synaptic pleasure. If you've never gamed on a CRT you'd never understand the joy that it is.

 

[Kyoufu]

It was on sale yesterday at amazon.de for 2600 or 2700€. It's damn hard to restrain myself and your comment makes me think I made a mistake by not getting it yesterday xD

I am actually not sure how much I would notice the increased lag. I currently have a 2010 Panasonic Plasma which is supposed to be pretty good in that regard so there would likely be a relatively big increase. I like fighting games a lot and try to get good at them, but I'm not on a very high level in any game. So I have no idea whether I would notice or get annoyed by it. Or in games like Soulsborne. The missing data for 4k HDR lag is also an issue.

There should be impressions of early copies of Forza tomorrow on the E6.

LG recommends using the ISF Expert modes with post processing effects disabled for HDR gaming but they're also open to a irmware update to enable HDR in Game mode.

There's nothing technically preventing them from doing this so I'd go as far as saying to expect one in the future.

That being said, I do all my gaming on ISF mode and have no issues.

 

[inner-G]

I'd personally buy a much cheaper TV set then, or at least one I could return/exchange just before Black Friday sales. Just trying to help.

Why buy a cheaper one? Then I'd be stuck with it...

This one does 4K, has decent input lag at 4K 60hz 4:4:4 and is 65", making it pretty awesome for PC gaming on the couch which doesn't take advantage of HDR. The other cheaper ones were like Vizio and Sharp, and I'm not going to buy one that cheap again. My Vizio only lasted 2 years - I'm sticking to better brands.

 

[Kambing]

For anyone in the market for an LG OLED, try walts.com.

They are authorized by LG, and if you are outside of Arizona, no sales tax. I called them, and was able to buy the LG 65c6p for $3,299 shipped. Even better, if you have a Discover card, you can get price protection of up to $500. Super simple online process to claim price protection. Took a screenshot of East Coast TV prices which was lower than what i paid, and got the $500 credit towards the purchase of the TV. Effectively made the TV $2799.

Thank god i saw a guy on AVSforum do this lol.

 

[Nipo]

Why buy a cheaper one? Then I'd be stuck with it...

This one does 4K, has decent input lag at 4K 60hz 4:4:4 and is 65", making it pretty awesome for PC gaming on the couch which doesn't take advantage of HDR. The other cheaper ones were like Vizio and Sharp, and I'm not going to buy one that cheap again. My Vizio only lasted 2 years - I'm sticking to better brands.

There is a pretty strong argument to be made for buying a $1500 TV now and another $1500 tv in 2 years over buying a $3000 tv now that you plan to keep for four years.

 

[inner-G]

There is a pretty strong argument to be made for buying a $1500 TV now and another $1500 tv in 2 years over buying a $3000 tv now that you plan to keep for four years.

What about a $1000 TV that I keep for four years?

I wouldn't spend that kind of money on a TV so waiting is pointless.

 

[dallow_bg]

For anyone in the market for an LG OLED, try walts.com.

They are authorized by LG, and if you are outside of Arizona, no sales tax. I called them, and was able to buy the LG 65c6p for $3,299 shipped. Even better, if you have a Discover card, you can get price protection of up to $500. Super simple online process to claim price protection. Took a screenshot of East Coast TV prices which was lower than what i paid, and got the $500 credit towards the purchase of the TV. Effectively made the TV $2799.

Thank god i saw a guy on AVSforum do this lol.

Daaaaaaamn.
Why you do this to me!!!!

 

[x3sphere]

Hmm I can't find any kind of HDR mode on my TV other than the fake SDR to HDR picture mode. Does it only display when viewing HDR content?

Yes. When using Nvidia's HDR SDK, the TV automatically enters HDR mode -- there's a popup indicating it and all the picture settings change.

If you want to try it, https://developer.nvidia.com/high-dynamic-range-display-development

Just run "run_hdr.bat" to enter HDR mode.

 

[Afrikan]

You don't understand, you can never be satisfied with a ~20ms Input Lag. That Excellent Rating on DisplayLag, nothing but false hope and lies!!!



That 12bit you see is Audio Bit Depth, not Color Space XD And to take advantage of that is you need good speakers and decoder

how embarrassing, usually I vet things... but I took someone's post on AVS forum as truth and rolled with it.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...icial-sony-kdl-55w900a-owners-thread-191.html

 

[Lucifon]

Just got my One S. Setting it all up ready for Forza - what's the best b6 settings for HDR then? HDR Bright, HDR Vivid, or HDR Standard? Any further tweaking that is essential?

 

[ukas]

Yes. When using Nvidia's HDR SDK, the TV automatically enters HDR mode -- there's a popup indicating it and all the picture settings change.

If you want to try it, https://developer.nvidia.com/high-dynamic-range-display-development

Just run "run_hdr.bat" to enter HDR mode.

I'll have to try that out when I get home.

 

[Art Vandilay]

For anyone in the market for an LG OLED, try walts.com.

They are authorized by LG, and if you are outside of Arizona, no sales tax. I called them, and was able to buy the LG 65c6p for $3,299 shipped. Even better, if you have a Discover card, you can get price protection of up to $500. Super simple online process to claim price protection. Took a screenshot of East Coast TV prices which was lower than what i paid, and got the $500 credit towards the purchase of the TV. Effectively made the TV $2799.

Thank god i saw a guy on AVSforum do this lol.

Do they have a good return policy? This is really tempting.

Edit: East Coast TVs has the 55" B6 and C6 at roughly $1500. If walts.com price matches that then whoa... may have to bite.

Edit 2: Walts.com said they'll sale the 55" B6 and C6 brand new for $1999 in case anyone is wondering. No tax and free shipping.

 

[Art Vandilay]

Has anyone seen this?

http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1463138030

If true, it appears that dynamic metadata for HDR10/HDMI 2.1 compatibility can be achieved via a firmware update.

It is not clear whether HDMI 2.1 is a hardware or firmware upgrade. However, Samsung confirmed to Display Daily that it will push out a firmware upgrade for its current TVs later this year to enable dynamic metadata for HDR. It is unclear if this update will apply only to 2016 models or if 2015 models will receive an update, too

Samsung’s promise suggests that a firmware upgrade is possible but Samsung might have been planning for it. Other TV manufacturers have yet to comment on the matter.

 

[ukas]

Has anyone seen this?

http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1463138030

If true, it appears that dynamic metadata for HDR10/HDMI 2.1 compatibility can be achieved via a firmware update.

Yep, that's from a while ago. No one knows for sure until everything is finalized, but it would be nice if it's just a firmware update.

 

[Art Vandilay]

Yep, that's from a while ago. No one knows for sure until everything is finalized, but it would be nice if it's just a firmware update.

Ah ok. I know the article is old, but it reads as though Samsung has confirmed it's possible to patch in dynamic metadata via a firmware update.

 

[Kambing]

Daaaaaaamn.
Why you do this to me!!!!

LOL, when i saw the other poster post this on AVS i thought the same thing. I am in California, and no tax is close to a 10% discount!

Do they have a good return policy? This is really tempting.

Edit: East Coast TVs has the 55" B6 and C6 at roughly $1500. If walts.com price matches that then whoa... may have to bite.

Edit 2: Walts.com said they'll sale the 55" B6 and C6 brand new for $1999 in case anyone is wondering. No tax and free shipping.

Not sure about the return policy to be honest... based on what i have read, i would steer clear of East Coast TV. Apparently they don't honor the advertised price, and will try to upsell you expensive warranty/"premium" hdmi cables. Should you refuse i think they just won't sell to you lol. But this is all from accounts of posters on AVS.

 

[Trojita]

I finally saw a LG OLED in a store today.

My Gawd. Looks like I'm going to have to save up for that.

 

[hwy_61]

I finally saw a LG OLED in a store today.

My Gawd. Looks like I'm going to have to save up for that.

Was it running the demo of the girl making a rug? Jesus the detail in that fucking demo.

 

[Jamex RZ]

Welp, just ordered an 8 bit fake HDR panel. It has good input lag and was way cheaper than the 10 bit ones. Got a 65" for $999 (Samsung un65ku6290)

I have that one and uses dithering to emulate 10 bit (8 bit + FRC) and it looks very good. Can definitely tell the difference between HDR on and off, and game mode works with HDR. You'll be happy for sure.

 

[ukas]

Yes. When using Nvidia's HDR SDK, the TV automatically enters HDR mode -- there's a popup indicating it and all the picture settings change.

If you want to try it, https://developer.nvidia.com/high-dynamic-range-display-development

Just run "run_hdr.bat" to enter HDR mode.

I tried this and it worked fine with my LG E6 and my Titan XP. The odd part is it kept the TV in HDR mode after I shutdown the program. So I decided to fire up a couple of games to see how the lag was. I honestly didn't notice much of a difference at all from standard game mode other than the colors were all blown out. I played some WoW and a litlle of No Man's Sky to test. Sorry I don't have much installed at the moment since I just rebuilt my PC. All of my spells and actions went off without a hitch and seemed like everything was normal speed wise. I have some screen shots that show the TV still stuck in HDR mode and game screen shots as well. You won't really notice anything except for the two shots taken with my phone.

https://goo.gl/photos/hGuS3ZYS5sxGxua89

Someone else should try it to see if you can get the TV stuck in HDR mode and do a testing as well.

Edit: I actually had to reboot to get the TV to leave HDR mode.

Edit Edit: I forgot to mention the only thing that I could not turn off was the Real Cinema setting. That was the only difference between HDR (Bright) and Game Mode.

 

[MazeHaze]

I tried this and it worked fine with my LG E6 and my Titan XP. The odd part is it kept the TV in HDR mode after I shutdown the program. So I decided to fire up a couple of games to see how the lag was. I honestly didn't notice much of a difference at all from standard game mode other than the colors were all blown out. I played some WoW and a litlle of No Man's Sky to test. Sorry I don't have much installed at the moment since I just rebuilt my PC. All of my spells and actions went off without a hitch and seemed like everything was normal speed wise. I have some screen shots that show the TV still stuck in HDR mode and game screen shots as well.

https://goo.gl/photos/hGuS3ZYS5sxGxua89

Someone else should try it to see if you can get the TV stuck in HDR mode and do a testing as well.

Edit: I actually had to reboot to get the TV to leave HDR mode.

On Ks8000 I am able to alt+enter and it toggles the hdr tv mode off when I do that. Give that a try.

It seems alt+enter toggles between fullscreen hdr and fullscreen non hdr. Gtx980 here.

 

[x3sphere]

I tried this and it worked fine with my LG E6 and my Titan XP. The odd part is it kept the TV in HDR mode after I shutdown the program. So I decided to fire up a couple of games to see how the lag was. I honestly didn't notice much of a difference at all from standard game mode other than the colors were all blown out. I played some WoW and a litlle of No Man's Sky to test. Sorry I don't have much installed at the moment since I just rebuilt my PC. All of my spells and actions went off without a hitch and seemed like everything was normal speed wise. I have some screen shots that show the TV still stuck in HDR mode and game screen shots as well. You won't really notice anything except for the two shots taken with my phone.

https://goo.gl/photos/hGuS3ZYS5sxGxua89

Someone else should try it to see if you can get the TV stuck in HDR mode and do a testing as well.

Edit: I actually had to reboot to get the TV to leave HDR mode.

Edit Edit: I forgot to mention the only thing that I could not turn off was the Real Cinema setting. That was the only difference between HDR (Bright) and Game Mode.

Yeah, it had the same effect here, was able to go into games with HDR mode still active. Input lag seemed fine to me. I didn't know about the Alt+Enter toggle posted above but you can turn it off without rebooting by running "run_sdr.bat"

 

[Trojita]

Was it running the demo of the girl making a rug? Jesus the detail in that fucking demo.

Na it had some other demo showing off the features of the tv (like zoom) with little creatures demonstrating it.

It finally went to other stuff like a woman touring what looked like Europe.

I also saw on one of the lower end OLED's the color pencil demo. Looked sweet.

Also saw the Sony HDR Demo. Even though I'm sure the comparisons aren't completely honest and a bit extreme on either end because it's a store demo, the best way I can put it is that light and color looks more like you are actually looking out your window at what you are looking at.

 

[dallow_bg]

Na it had some other demo showing off the features of the tv (like zoom) with little creatures demonstrating it.

It finally went to other stuff like a woman touring what looked like Europe.

I also saw on one of the lower end OLED's the color pencil demo. Looked sweet.

Also saw the Sony HDR Demo. Even though I'm sure the comparisons aren't completely honest and a bit extreme on either end because it's a store demo, the best way I can put it is that light and color looks more like you are actually looking out your window at what you are looking at.

Are we twins?

I also went to the store today to check out the OLEDs and the Sony HDR demo with the splitscreen.

What I really want to see though is to UHD movies side by side on a set that is SDR, and another that is HDR.

 

[Yjynx]

Na it had some other demo showing off the features of the tv (like zoom) with little creatures demonstrating it.

It finally went to other stuff like a woman touring what looked like Europe.

I also saw on one of the lower end OLED's the color pencil demo. Looked sweet.

Also saw the Sony HDR Demo. Even though I'm sure the comparisons aren't completely honest and a bit extreme on either end because it's a store demo, the best way I can put it is that light and color looks more like you are actually looking out your window at what you are looking at.

Was is Sony ZD9?

 

[inner-G]

I have that one and uses dithering to emulate 10 bit (8 bit + FRC) and it looks very good. Can definitely tell the difference between HDR on and off, and game mode works with HDR. You'll be happy for sure.

Awesome - thank you for the reassurance!

I like that it comes with a 'real' remote. Apparently the 6290 is a Best Buy exclusive variant of the 6300 and just doesn't have Bluetooth and has the regular remote instead of the small 'smart' remote.

The 65" of this was cheaper than the 60" of the 6300, too so I was sold. Hard to beat for under a G. The 4K/60hz/4.4.4 support is nice too

 

[Kyoufu]

I need a bigger OLED than 65". Now that I've used it for months it looks and feels small to me.

I hope LG put out 75" and 85" models in the 4 digit range.

 

[Trojita]

Are we twins?

I also went to the store today to check out the OLEDs and the Sony HDR demo with the splitscreen.

What I really want to see though is to UHD movies side by side on a set that is SDR, and another that is HDR.

lol

Yeah I'd like to see a SDR and HDR blu-ray played on two of the same tv's.

Was is Sony ZD9?

I'm not sure lol

 

[Art Vandilay]

I need a bigger OLED than 65". Now that I've used it for months it looks and feels small to me.

I hope LG put out 75" and 85" models in the 4 digit range.

 

[DangerMouse]

^That was perfect lol

 

[Trojita]

I need a bigger OLED than 65". Now that I've used it for months it looks and feels small to me.

I hope LG put out 75" and 85" models in the 4 digit range.

Move your seat closer.

 

[NYR]

I finally saw a LG OLED in a store today.

My Gawd. Looks like I'm going to have to save up for that.

I just bought one last week, 65'' LG E6. After muddling with the settings, it is AMAZING.

My only complaint is when I first got it, it took me time to get used to the fact it wasn't as "bright" as my old Samsung LED TV. That TV went up to 1000 nits whereas this one does 600 nits.

 

[NYR]

I need a bigger OLED than 65". Now that I've used it for months it looks and feels small to me.

I hope LG put out 75" and 85" models in the 4 digit range.

LG just annouced a 77" OLED a few days ago. A steal at only TWENTY THOUSAND US DOLLARS.

https://www.engadget.com/2016/09/17/lg-is-ready-to-sell-its-stunning-77-inch-4k-oled-for-20-000/

http://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2016/9/15/12928636/lg-77-inch-oled-signature-4k-tv-20000

http://4k.com/news/possibly-the-bes...ow-available-lgs-giant-77-inch-oled-g6-16563/

 

[Eiji]

I tried this and it worked fine with my LG E6 and my Titan XP. The odd part is it kept the TV in HDR mode after I shutdown the program.
Edit: I actually had to reboot to get the TV to leave HDR mode.

I just ran the SDR demo run_sdr.bat to kick my TV (JU6400) out of HDR mode after running run_hdr.bat.

 

[TB14]

My plasma Insignia (Samsung panel) is still going strong.

 

[Kyoufu]

LG just annouced a 77" OLED a few days ago. A steal at only TWENTY THOUSAND US DOLLARS.

https://www.engadget.com/2016/09/17/lg-is-ready-to-sell-its-stunning-77-inch-4k-oled-for-20-000/

http://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2016/9/15/12928636/lg-77-inch-oled-signature-4k-tv-20000

http://4k.com/news/possibly-the-bes...ow-available-lgs-giant-77-inch-oled-g6-16563/

Yeah the 77G6 was announced back at CES 2016. It's too much which is why I'm looking for one in the 4 digit range.

 

[NYR]

Yeah the 77G6 was announced back at CES 2016. It's too much which is why I'm looking for one in the 4 digit range.

Angelina Jolie is single now, you have a better chance with her than getting a 70 inch+ OLED for $9999 this decade.

 

[GeoNeo]

Angelina Jolie is single now, you have a better chance with her than getting a 70 inch+ OLED for $9999 this decade.

I bet by 2019 70"+ OLED will be $9999 or lower.

People forget how far LG have come with their OLED production in very little time. Also, yields keep improving and they are actively still developing better WOLED tech. Early 2016 this set was expected to hit $30,000+.

All comes down to yields with these displays and thankfully they have been improving more and more, along with good sell through rate.