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[Phreakuency]

Note that the step-down 55X900A does not have full 1080p resolution in 3D mode..

Hmm, any idea why? I thought it was the exact same tv, just smaller?

And I wouldn't call Bluray 3D dead. As long as there are still a bunch of 3D movies coming to the cinema (most blockbusters have been 3D) you'll still get your monies worth for the niche market of 3D. Plus, when the Avatar sequels roll out, it'll pick back up again.

 

[Danneee]

Finally got the ok to upgrade our old Sony EX 40" TV to a new one.
I'm currently looking at a Samsung 55" 6900 UHD tv.
Anyone tried that?
It's pretty cheap right now, more so than any of their other recent 55" TVs.

So I got the TV and after some tinkering with settings I'll just say that I'm more then satisfied with this set.
Especially the up scaling, ok my old tv wasn't top of the line or anything but when a 900p game (BF4 PS4) looks better on a 4k 55" tv compared to a 1080p 40" one I can only say I'm impressed. Especially jaggies are much less pronounced on the new set, it's almost hard to distinguish BF4 from a native 1080p game.
Plus the media functions are outstanding. For the price I wholeheartedly recommend the tv.

 

[BruiserBear]

You like the W800B, right? How is the picture quality? Deciding between that and the Vizio E series is tough. Input lag is almost identical.

I think the picture quality is great, but these sorts of things are subjective. Beware of the Vizio's though. Even TVs from the same model lineup can have varying input lag numbers. CNET's review shows this.

Is it passive or active? I would buy the 800 B if it were passive 3D.

passive

Today I was going to pull the trigger on amazon for a 50 inch W800B but just to see how it is I went in to my local Best Buy and I have to say the picture quality was quite disappointing. I don't think the problem was the content they were playing either because it seems like something Sony would want them to run as a demo.

The competing Samsung TVs, especially the H7150 blew me away though. Not sure if I should buy that though since the latency is almost double that of Sony's. Damn decisions.

I wouldn't put any stock in a store demo reel. So many variables, so many lights. It's just a mess.

 

[MrBlonde]

What's the deal with the curved tvs? I was looking at a 65inch Samsung at best buy yesterday. Might upgrade from my old 720p Samsung plasma at some point

 

[Ocaso]

It doesn't sound like the film studios are interested enough, basically. 3D versions are not piggy-backing onto the hotel contracts where a lot of new Netflix content comes from, the studios aren't terribly interested in cutting cheap deals, and from Netflix's side it sounds like they just aren't getting enough interest to license multiple versions of films.

Sounds like it. Still, it's a chicken and egg problem. People won't be interested if the content isn't there, and because people aren't interested Netflix doesn't acquire more content.

Auteostereoscopic screens are basically a cost casualty at this point. The increases cost and failure rate of what is essentially two screens just isn't getting the interest of cheaper, more obvious tech like 4K and curved screens. 3D just has too many problems, from convergence issues to glasses to cheap post-conversions that people don't really believe in it as a selling feature anymore.

I can understand 4k, but if curved TVs succeed where 3D failed, then people deserve trivial gimmicks over something substantial. I never bought into the idea that 3D is solely a gimmick; it's an added dimension, the way you normally experience the world. How is reproducing that merely a gimmick? True, issues like decreased brightness, eye strain, and the like contributed to it's declining health, but my gut feeling is that most people would prefer a 3D image if you could eliminate those issues, the biggest being the glasses. None were insurmountable, after all.

 

[Crazymoogle]

Sounds like it. Still, it's a chicken and egg problem. People won't be interested if the content isn't there, and because people aren't interested Netflix doesn't acquire more content.

The problem is that Netflix generally doesn't just go sign a deal with Warner or whomever and has their content. Some stuff is licensed direct, but most falls under the provisions of the network television industry's worldwide hotel/flight deals, which is why a lot of content appears for awhile and then is gone for years afterward. You won't see many (if any) hotels/planes capable of using 3D content so as you can imagine those licenses must all be pursued seperately.

I can understand 4k, but if curved TVs succeed where 3D failed, then people deserve trivial gimmicks over something substantial. I never bought into the idea that 3D is solely a gimmick; it's an added dimension, the way you normally experience the world. How is reproducing that merely a gimmick? True, issues like decreased brightness, eye strain, and the like contributed to it's declining health, but my gut feeling is that most people would prefer a 3D image if you could eliminate those issues, the biggest being the glasses. None were insurmountable, after all.

3D just has too many issues right now that are easier to ignore in favor of panel cost and other features:

-brightness
-crosstalk
-viewing angles
-passive vs. active
-bandwidth/processing required
-glasses
-wide range in content quality
-variations in eyesight among the public that lessens the effect

Curved screens are certainly a gimmick, but a powerful one - the first time I saw one my eyes kept following the lines to understand the curve. There is no content adaptation, just pure, simple manufacturing efficiencies to learn. They feel new. They add wow factor just like showroom processing modes and preview 4K discs. So as long as they can continue to lower cost, we'll continue to see them hit the market.

 

[WheelHoss1]

3D is amazing

Curved screens are amazing

You're in denial if you dispute either

 

[Ocaso]

I could understand the appeal of a curved screen if the screen were big enough to engulf my entire field of view, a la an IMAX screen. Otherwise, it is a strange and pointless endeavor, the kind of thing that makes you question human rationality in the face of novelty. A convex screen is bad, but a concave screen is good? Seriously? Reminds me of the article I once read were a marketer claimed he could sell men tampons if he were just allocated the right budget.

And yes, I have seen curved screens in-store. Let's just say I won't be paying an extra cent for that particular feature anytime in the foreseeable future.

 

[WheelHoss1]

Ok, I'm at the computer, so I'll elaborate. I was one of the haters, too. I read David's article on CNET. I get why it seems like a gimmick.

But quite simply, they offer better viewing angles. With normal LCDs, if you're more than 30 degrees off center, the image looks washed out. When I was standing on the side looking at the curved screens, it was like the image was still facing me. The far side of the screen looked SO MUCH BETTER.

It's just me and the old lady, and we both sit dead center, so we don't need a curved screen. But if I had a couple kids and was stuck sitting on the side seats of the family room, I'd be dying for a curved screen.

I bought the 8550 because I got an amazing deal on the 60". But if I had more money, I would have bought the 60" 9000 (or the 65" if we had the space). It's simply a better TV.

Curved TVs aren't going anywhere, and neither is 3D. You can't buy a really high-end TV right now that doesn't offer 3D. Also, it's not like curved screens are some cheap ploy. Samsung spend millions and millions in R&D on these babies. This is the future.

 

[See You Next Wednesday]

Curved screens are certainly a gimmick, but a powerful one - the first time I saw one my eyes kept following the lines to understand the curve. There is no content adaptation, just pure, simple manufacturing efficiencies to learn. They feel new. They add wow factor just like showroom processing modes and preview 4K discs. So as long as they can continue to lower cost, we'll continue to see them hit the market.

The same was said with 3D & it's practically dead.

 

[Emarv]

Curved TVs aren't going anywhere, and neither is 3D. This is the future.

Is this necessarily true? I figure 3D is still standard because all the R&D that went into making these 3D TV's. Eventually these will be phased out when it's no longer worth the implementation in manufacturing.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Is this necessarily true? I figure 3D is still standard because all the R&D that went into making these 3D TV's. Eventually these will be phased out when it's no longer worth the implementation in manufacturing.

Well 3D adds no cost to the manufacturing per se, I doubt the transmitter required for syncing of active 3D glasses costs more than 50 cents in parts or whatever. The manufacturers really have stopped caring about 3D that much though, which is why the implementation is becoming so lazy. I mean, putting active 3D on a 4K TV? WHY????

Hmm, any idea why? I thought it was the exact same tv, just smaller?

The 55X900A unfortunately doesn't have the right filter to allow full 1080p resolution, probably because it's too hard to manufacture a filter that small.

And I wouldn't call Bluray 3D dead. As long as there are still a bunch of 3D movies coming to the cinema (most blockbusters have been 3D) you'll still get your monies worth for the niche market of 3D. Plus, when the Avatar sequels roll out, it'll pick back up again.

Well, for now I can still buy Blu-ray 3D on Amazon but retail stores have all but eliminated their 3D movies from their increasingly small Blu-ray sections. The cost though, what the hell? I had a $5 off coupon from Best Buy so I went there and picked up Gravity. It was $30. Even with the coupon I was like goddamn.

 

[WheelHoss1]

Where do you live? I was just in Best Buy. Their blu ray section is huge and they have an entire shelf of 3D. Gravity was sold out along with a bunch of other titles

 

[Crazymoogle]

The same was said with 3D & it's practically dead.

3D is practically dead for the reasons I stated. Tons of problems, tough to find good content, and you have to wear glasses. 99% of stores won't even demo it because unless you're the lucky guy wearing the glasses, there's nothing nice to see. So you'll continue to see the minimum spec implemented and probably nothing else. It's now just a bullet point.

Curved screens have none of those problems. They demo great, no extra steps. The only issue is cost. There is a lot of pressure in manufacturing to solve the idea of curved displays so it's hard to imagine progress stops, but whether it takes over the market really depends on if it can hit minimum commodity pricing.

 

[Phreakuency]

The 55X900A unfortunately doesn't have the right filter to allow full 1080p resolution, probably because it's too hard to manufacture a filter that small.
.

Weird. I'm sure the LG (all passive) 4K screens (even the 49") support full res 3D.

And to the comments on 3D 'problems', I can understand there are some for sure. But with the right screen and right content 3D is amazing.

I have no doubt there are STILL people who base their '3D is a gimmick' opinion on the old, old school red and blue glasses, without ever seeing a great 3D movie.

I also have no doubt there are people who (like my first experience) were put off due to active shutter glasses, which (at least from the first gen I had) lost sync, allowed light in which broke immersion and made the shutter movement visible and had terrible crosstalk.

Once I made the switch to passive (LG 55") it was as close to a cinema experience as ever. Avatar, Despicable Me, Step Up 3 etc, perfect examples of what great 3D can add.

I do agree though that it is a niche but so is VR goggles, touch screen gaming, motion controls... none of which you'd want to play/use 100% of the time. But for the right title, they really add something special.

 

[Jimnymebob]

I have a 32" 1080p LCD TV in my room, and a 50" 720p Samsung Plasma downstairs, and my PS2 looks great on the plasma, even with scart, whereas it looks like crap on my LCD, and a jaggy mess with clear text with components. Does the PS2 on the plasma look better because it's a plasma, or because it's 720p?

 

[theSlacker]

I have no doubt there are STILL people who base their '3D is a gimmick' opinion on the old, old school red and blue glasses, without ever seeing a great 3D movie.

Once I made the switch to passive (LG 55") it was as close to a cinema experience as ever. Avatar, Despicable Me, Step Up 3 etc, perfect examples of what great 3D can add.

Meh. I still think it's a gimmick and don't really care about it. Out of the movies you mentioned there is only one I actually enjoyed as a movie and it wasn't for visuals. I don't really think I am an old fashioned kind of person, just don't see the appeal. The fact that there hasn't been enough movies that really appeal to me in the format could be a reason though.

 

[RBH]

Roku announced that it would integrate the Roku experience into Roku branded televisions, initially with two global TV partners, Hisense and TCL, both based in China.

As you might expect, the new smart TVs are all about media streaming, providing access to Roku’s 1,500+ streaming channels and library of 200,000+ movies and TV shows via the company’s official store. Continuing with the content-first theme of the device, the company is bundling in two months free Hulu Plus membership, plus a package of free trials reportedly worth in excess of US $100.

There are a number of ways to control that media, the first being a simple, 20-button remote similar to those used with company’s streaming boxes. More interestingly, the TVs can also be controlled using smartphones and tablets by means of the Roku Mobile app, available for iOS and Android. The TVs come with simplified remote controls that have fewer buttons than standard remotes. Among the buttons you won't find is one for "input," since there's no requirement to keep pressing such a button to choose different sources for your TV (e.g., the Blu-ray player, DVR, cable box or Roku itself, etc.). Those sources are all found as icons on the home screen.

Users will also have access to Roku Search, which searches across top streaming channels by actor, title or director, making it easier to find specific content. One last nice feature is the ability to send music, photos and video up to the TV sets via a smartphone or tablet, similar to Apple TV’s AirPlay feature, or elements of Google’s Chromecast hardware.

While Roku TV might not be quite as ambitious as Google’s recently announced Android TV platform, its features are more than competitive with past and current smart TVs, which routinely feature clunky and unintuitive software.

There are 32, 40, 48 and 55-inch Roku TV models available from TCL, all of which output at 1080p with a 120 Hz refresh rate. The Hisense models are split between 120 Hz and 60 Hz variants, with the 50- and 55-inch models boasting the higher refresh rate than the 40- and 48-inch variants.

Three of the eight planned TVs are available right now. The 40-inch TCL model retails for a very reasonable $329, while the 48- and 50-inch models will set you back $499 and $649 respectively. The entire Hisense range is set to launch in September.

Hisense hasn't announced pricing for its TVs, which will be available in 40-, 48-, 50- and 55-inch screen sizes beginning in late September. It is leaving the price up to the retailer.

TCL will be charging just $229 for a 32-inch TV, $329 for 40-inch, $499 for 48-inches and $649 for 55-inches.

TCL 48FS4610R Features
Refresh Rate: 120Hz
Backlight: LED (Full Array)
Smart Functionality: Yes - Roku-integrated
Dimensions (W x H x D): TV without stand: 42.8" x 24.8" x 3", TV with stand: 42.8" x 26.9" x 7.7"
Inputs: 3 HDMI, 1 USB, RF, Composite, Headphone Jack, Optical Audio Out
Accessories Included: Remote w/ batteries, detachable power cord

Technical Details
Brand Name: TCL
Model: 48FS4610R
Display Technology: LED
Display Size: 48
Image Aspect Ratio: 16:09
Speaker Count: 2
Resolution: 1080p
Refresh Rate: 120

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00K7NCS8M/?tag=neogaf0e-20

http://www.tclusa.com/roku/

http://www.hisense-usa.com/roku/

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Maybe Amazon should do this to boost the anemic sales of Fire TV.

 

[weremichael]

In preperation for the launch of Destiny, I purchased a Sony KDL55W700B for my man cave. The blacks aren't as good as my Panasonic Plasma, but that was to be expected. The input lag looks good @ 23.2 ms according to avsforum. I have really enjoyed gaming on it from about six feet away from the screen. I've added a backlight kit to improve the black levels at night and that does seem to improve the picture. For sound I'm using a Mixamp and Sennheiser HD 558 Headphones so I really can't comment on the speakers of the tv. Overall, if you don't want 3D, I would recommend taking a look at this tv.

 

[HarryKS]

Update on the curved UN65HU9000.

The thing is a damned beast but a tricky one.

I set it up and started it and I was surprised that it did not look that great and the sound sounded muffled. I quickly realized that all those foibles disappear when you move 10-12 feet from it and good lord does it shine. I don't know anything about acoustics and sound wave propagation, but put some distance between yourself and that thing and you'll see what a leap it is.

In terms of lag, still fiddling with the settings. It's more than good enough for slower paced gaming so far. I have yet to find game mode and set it up properly in the settings.


The curve is in no way obtrusive and I even find that viewing from the side is actually slightly more pleasant.

 

[mitchman]

In terms of lag, still fiddling with the settings. It's more than good enough for slower paced gaming so far. I have yet to find game mode and set it up properly in the settings.

Don't use the game mode but instead rename an input to PC and that will enable a less laggy mode than the game mode. 60ms or so is the lowest you should get with it.

 

[RBH]

So I admittedly don't know much about TVs in general, and I'm trying to look for a TV to use with my Xbox One that's in the range of 40-46" and sub-$400. Smart features aren't necessary.

Any recommendations?

 

[RBH]

So I've narrowed it down to a few TVs..........which one would you guys suggest out of these?



Sharp LC-42LB261U
(this is an open-box item for $339 at my local Best Buy, and I've got a $25 gift card also)
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/sharp-42-class-42-diag--led-1080p-120hz-hdtv/5420123.p?id=1219128175218&skuId=5420123&st=categoryid$abcat0101000&cp=1&lp=3


Sony KDL40R350B
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Sony-KDL40R350B-40-1080p-60Hz-Class-LED-HDTV/36575378


Sharp LC-39LE551U
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IN2WDIY/?tag=neogaf0e-20

 

[hitgirl]

What's some of the best TV news blogs to subscribe to? Got a part time job slanging TVs at best buy and need to cut my chops.

 

[Dead]

The LG OLEDs are starting to go up in Best Buys for displays

Hoping to see on this week. If it lives up to my expectations, ima buy that shit

 

[Ima_Riskit]

I will be upgrading from a 4 year old LCD when the new Vizio P Series 4K TV's are released.

 

[hitgirl]

The LG OLEDs are starting to go up in Best Buys for displays

Hoping to see on this week. If it lives up to my expectations, ima buy that shit

I spent like 16 hours looking at the LG OLED screen this weekend. The black levels are insane and so are the colors. My only complaint is the demo they are running has some weird artifacting on some of the images around the edges, is it the pixels turning on? Or is it just the demo, I'm not sure. I'd like to see a movie on it. Oh and it has 55ms input lag. But for the price right now and you can get a bunch of bonuses using a Best Buy Credit card, not a bad option.

I've got my eye on the Sony 700B, I really like how its just a nice TV with no HD and decent input lag.

 

[MrJames]

The LG OLEDs are starting to go up in Best Buys for displays

Hoping to see on this week. If it lives up to my expectations, ima buy that shit

OLED and plasma pretty much destroyed all the 4K LCD displays for the second straight year at the VE shootout last weekend. I'm trying to wait until after CES to buy but if that LG 4K OLED lives up to the hype, it's going to be tough waiting that long.

 

[See You Next Wednesday]

So I've narrowed it down to a few TVs..........which one would you guys suggest out of these?



Sharp LC-42LB261U
(this is an open-box item for $339 at my local Best Buy, and I've got a $25 gift card also)
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/sharp-42-class-42-diag--led-1080p-120hz-hdtv/5420123.p?id=1219128175218&skuId=5420123&st=categoryid$abcat0101000&cp=1&lp=3


Sony KDL40R350B
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Sony-KDL40R350B-40-1080p-60Hz-Class-LED-HDTV/36575378


Sharp LC-39LE551U
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IN2WDIY/?tag=neogaf0e-20

Last years Sony R400 series had even better picture quality than this years!
I'm not sure if the R300 is also on par with that, but if it is, get that by far.

 

[nib95]

Just pulled the trigger on a 55" Panasonic VT65 plasma for my games room. But not sure whether I should cancel and spend the extra £500 for a 65". Just think the latter might be too big and heavy, especially for a wall mount... hmmm...

 

[rokkerkory]

Just pulled the trigger on a 55" Panasonic VT65 plasma for my games room. But not sure whether I should cancel and spend the extra £500 for a 65". Just think the latter might be too big and heavy, especially for a wall mount... hmmm...

never too big

 

[nib95]

never too big

Dammit….Hmmm…

Decisions decisions….

 

[Mascot]

Just pulled the trigger on a 55" Panasonic VT65 plasma for my games room. But not sure whether I should cancel and spend the extra £500 for a 65". Just think the latter might be too big and heavy, especially for a wall mount... hmmm...

I've always been in the 'never too big' camp, but when upgrading my racing rig recently I stuck with 32" after contemplating 42" (and even an IMAXish 50") after running some tests and realising that the screen door would kick in above 32".

Consider the upgrade very carefully, and maybe put that £500 towards a Rift CV1 and a new set of throwing knives. You can never have enough throwing knives.

 

[Danneee]

Just pulled the trigger on a 55" Panasonic VT65 plasma for my games room. But not sure whether I should cancel and spend the extra £500 for a 65". Just think the latter might be too big and heavy, especially for a wall mount... hmmm...

I recently went from a 40" to a 55" and I'd say that's more than enough. We sit about 3m from it and at first it even felt ridicously big.
Funny how quickly one gets used to it though...

 

[jaosobno]

So I've narrowed it down to a few TVs..........which one would you guys suggest out of these?



Sharp LC-42LB261U
(this is an open-box item for $339 at my local Best Buy, and I've got a $25 gift card also)
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/sharp-42-class-42-diag--led-1080p-120hz-hdtv/5420123.p?id=1219128175218&skuId=5420123&st=categoryid$abcat0101000&cp=1&lp=3


Sony KDL40R350B
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Sony-KDL40R350B-40-1080p-60Hz-Class-LED-HDTV/36575378


Sharp LC-39LE551U
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IN2WDIY/?tag=neogaf0e-20

When it comes to gaming, Sony usually has the best response times in game mode.

I bought Sony KDLW706 yesterday, and its extremely small response time was one of the key factors in my purchase (13.6 ms according to tests, which is probably the TV with the shortest response time ever - I've yet to see one better than that).

 

[TerryLee81]

What's a good 32" LCD Tv?

I've been looking at the Sony KDL-32W705, is there anything better for about the same price?

(Can't go bigger than 32")

 

[CartridgeBlower]

Can anyone tell me if this is a decent deal for a decent TV? Can't find many reviews for it online, but the price for the size seems good. Not going to use it for gaming just blu-rays and television, if that matters.

http://www.target.com/p/magnavox-50...-tv-black-50me314v/-/A-15157292#prodSlot=_1_1

 

[Mattlikewhoa]

Just pulled the trigger on a 55" Panasonic VT65 plasma for my games room. But not sure whether I should cancel and spend the extra £500 for a 65". Just think the latter might be too big and heavy, especially for a wall mount... hmmm...

Go as large as possible. And there's no issue with mounting a large plasma. I have a 64" over the fireplace.

 

[nib95]

Go as large as possible. And there's no issue with mounting a large plasma. I have a 64" over the fireplace.

I recently went from a 40" to a 55" and I'd say that's more than enough. We sit about 3m from it and at first it even felt ridicously big.
Funny how quickly one gets used to it though...

I've always been in the 'never too big' camp, but when upgrading my racing rig recently I stuck with 32" after contemplating 42" (and even an IMAXish 50") after running some tests and realising that the screen door would kick in above 32".

Consider the upgrade very carefully, and maybe put that £500 towards a Rift CV1 and a new set of throwing knives. You can never have enough throwing knives.

Cancelled the order for the 55" and went with the 65" instead. After measuring out the distance I would be from the TV in the new room (it's a pretty large room), realised 55" would actually look too small. Now just need to buy a wall mount for it.

Any you guys would recommend? Thinking about going with this one. £10 cheaper here than it is at Richer Sounds, but still pricey.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/310878464037?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Cheesy advert for it here lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkv13h-ppiI

 

[Crazymoogle]

Cancelled the order for the 55" and went with the 65" instead. After measuring out the distance I would be from the TV in the new room (it's a pretty large room), realised 55" would actually look too small. Now just need to buy a wall mount for it.

Any you guys would recommend? Thinking about going with this one. £10 cheaper here than it is at Richer Sounds, but still pricey.

That's exactly the mount I bought. The Tilt can be useful but I don't need a full swivel. Sanus is one of the quality brands in the industry; I used one of their stand mounts for almost a decade and it was built like a rock.

 

[byropoint]

Hey guys,

I've found a Sony KDL-50W656 for a pretty good price at a local store, does anyone know anything about this tv? Anything wrong with it, should I get it?

 

[nib95]

That's exactly the mount I bought. The Tilt can be useful but I don't need a full swivel. Sanus is one of the quality brands in the industry; I used one of their stand mounts for almost a decade and it was built like a rock.

Awesome. Good to know.

 

[ACH1LL3US]

Ok.. this is going to be long winded but I really hope everyone stays with it and reads it.

I have the Leo Bodnar lag tester, I have tested many tv’s with it so far, great device! All of the LCD/LED tv’s I have tried it on show the top bar having the least amount of lag, followed by the middle and then the bottom having the highest.
Most sites either report the middle one or the average of them all. I personally feel we should be going by the bottom one ( the highest number ) because that is when the image is completed on the screen.
Now you may be asking yourself why should we care? Well it brings me to my point on the tester, it is NOT accurate for Plasma’s. I currently have the following tvs( in various rooms at my place):

Samsung 65H8000 LED ( bottom bar 49ms)
Samsung 32D5000 LED ( Bottom bar 39ms)
Samsung S24D590P PC monitor ( Bottom bar 19ms)
Pioneer Elite pro-1150 Kuro ( All three bars read 41ms)

Ok so with that out of the way I have discovered something interesting, some may already know this but all bars on the plasma are the same. Also I tried the Kuro in Game Mode with game preference control on and it actually raised the input lag to 48ms!! In Pure mode it was 41ms, in PC mode it was 41ms. This is the 768p version of the tv, I also had in the past a Pro101, Pro110 and a Pro111. The 1080p panels form Pioneer were slower, that I can tell.

So I played games back and forth from the tvs listed above. Wanna know something interesting? The plasma feels about the same as the Samsung pc monitor that the lower bar reads 19ms. I thought this can’t be. I am very sensitive to lag and even moreso sensitive to blur and uniformity on displays. The Pioneer Elite plasma has the best uniformity of the bunch, it doesn’t blur like the lcd’s either.

Yet I don’t get why if the Plasma reads 41ms why it felt as fast as the pc monitor at 19ms (bottom bar). I looked into it and found out on HDTV.test that they also found this issue with the lag tester. They continue to use the Leo Bodnar and the Camera Method for the plasma reviews, if you go look at the Panasonic reviews in the last year, most are at 41ms and the camera method shows 23ms.

Interesting right? The end result of this is that plasma’s cannot be compared to led/ldc timings from Leo Bodnar, they are just not apples to apples. Funny that Pioneer had a game mode etc and it actually made the lag worse, I am sure I read people in the past state that it felt like less lag, placebo effect??

Any thoughts or ideas? I went back to use my Pioneer Elite Kuro for gaming, its only 50 inches but the blur and uniformity destroys the led’s I have. Ironically lag wise it feels the same as the fastest led I have ( 19ms) so that was a pleasant surprise.

 

[nib95]

Ok.. this is going to be long winded but I really hope everyone stays with it and reads it.

I have the Leo Bodnar lag tester, I have tested many tv’s with it so far, great device! All of the LCD/LED tv’s I have tried it on show the top bar having the least amount of lag, followed by the middle and then the bottom having the highest.
Most sites either report the middle one or the average of them all. I personally feel we should be going by the bottom one ( the highest number ) because that is when the image is completed on the screen.
Now you may be asking yourself why should we care? Well it brings me to my point on the tester, it is NOT accurate for Plasma’s. I currently have the following tvs( in various rooms at my place):

Samsung 65H8000 LED ( bottom bar 49ms)
Samsung 32D5000 LED ( Bottom bar 39ms)
Samsung S24D590P PC monitor ( Bottom bar 19ms)
Pioneer Elite pro-1150 Kuro ( All three bars read 41ms)

Ok so with that out of the way I have discovered something interesting, some may already know this but all bars on the plasma are the same. Also I tried the Kuro in Game Mode with game preference control on and it actually raised the input lag to 48ms!! In Pure mode it was 41ms, in PC mode it was 41ms. This is the 768p version of the tv, I also had in the past a Pro101, Pro110 and a Pro111. The 1080p panels form Pioneer were slower, that I can tell.

So I played games back and forth from the tvs listed above. Wanna know something interesting? The plasma feels about the same as the Samsung pc monitor that the lower bar reads 19ms. I thought this can’t be. I am very sensitive to lag and even moreso sensitive to blur and uniformity on displays. The Pioneer Elite plasma has the best uniformity of the bunch, it doesn’t blur like the lcd’s either.

Yet I don’t get why if the Plasma reads 41ms why it felt as fast as the pc monitor at 19ms (bottom bar). I looked into it and found out on HDTV.test that they also found this issue with the lag tester. They continue to use the Leo Bodnar and the Camera Method for the plasma reviews, if you go look at the Panasonic reviews in the last year, most are at 41ms and the camera method shows 23ms.

Interesting right? The end result of this is that plasma’s cannot be compared to led/ldc timings from Leo Bodnar, they are just not apples to apples. Funny that Pioneer had a game mode etc and it actually made the lag worse, I am sure I read people in the past state that it felt like less lag, placebo effect??

Any thoughts or ideas? I went back to use my Pioneer Elite Kuro for gaming, its only 50 inches but the blur and uniformity destroys the led’s I have. Ironically lag wise it feels the same as the fastest led I have ( 19ms) so that was a pleasant surprise.

Excellent post. I'm really glad you actually took the time out to test this, and post your thoughts. It's something that I've said many times in the past, but never had an explanation or theory for. Plasma's, despite testing higher than many LCD's on input lag readings, still perform better than figures would suggest.

I also find the same thing with motion in general, and with respect to judder, dealing with lower frame rates etc. To me plasma's just handle these things better than comparable LCD's, but without any scientific equipment or testing basis, I can't prove if my analysis goes further than simple placebo.

It would be interesting if you could continue testing this and see if you might be able to understand why the differences exist, despite input lag readings and so forth suggesting the contrary. Perhaps you could email some of the guys from AVS, AV, HDTVtest about this and see if they have any thoughts to add as well? Because reviews from these places currently really only go by input lag readings from the Leo Bodnar.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

My VT60 which Leo Bodnar reads as 41 ms and my 65X900A which reads at 40 ms feel about the same to me. The 65W850A I had felt quite a bit better at 18 ms. So YMMV.

Since the last 2 companies still selling plasmas will exit the market by the end of this year, it's kind of a moot point now. Plasma is dead.

 

[Chitown B]

never too big

truth. I wish now that I had bought the 60" Pioneer instead of the 50" way back. But, at the time 50" seemed huge.

 

[MrJames]

I will be upgrading from a 4 year old LCD when the new Vizio P Series 4K TV's are released.

Getting closer. Vizio has added them to their site.

http://www.vizio.com/tvs/pseries.html

 

[Fitts]

Ok.. this is going to be long winded but I really hope everyone stays with it and reads it.

I have the Leo Bodnar lag tester, I have tested many tv’s with it so far, great device! All of the LCD/LED tv’s I have tried it on show the top bar having the least amount of lag, followed by the middle and then the bottom having the highest.
Most sites either report the middle one or the average of them all. I personally feel we should be going by the bottom one ( the highest number ) because that is when the image is completed on the screen.
Now you may be asking yourself why should we care? Well it brings me to my point on the tester, it is NOT accurate for Plasma’s. I currently have the following tvs( in various rooms at my place):

Samsung 65H8000 LED ( bottom bar 49ms)
Samsung 32D5000 LED ( Bottom bar 39ms)
Samsung S24D590P PC monitor ( Bottom bar 19ms)
Pioneer Elite pro-1150 Kuro ( All three bars read 41ms)

Ok so with that out of the way I have discovered something interesting, some may already know this but all bars on the plasma are the same. Also I tried the Kuro in Game Mode with game preference control on and it actually raised the input lag to 48ms!! In Pure mode it was 41ms, in PC mode it was 41ms. This is the 768p version of the tv, I also had in the past a Pro101, Pro110 and a Pro111. The 1080p panels form Pioneer were slower, that I can tell.

So I played games back and forth from the tvs listed above. Wanna know something interesting? The plasma feels about the same as the Samsung pc monitor that the lower bar reads 19ms. I thought this can’t be. I am very sensitive to lag and even moreso sensitive to blur and uniformity on displays. The Pioneer Elite plasma has the best uniformity of the bunch, it doesn’t blur like the lcd’s either.

Yet I don’t get why if the Plasma reads 41ms why it felt as fast as the pc monitor at 19ms (bottom bar). I looked into it and found out on HDTV.test that they also found this issue with the lag tester. They continue to use the Leo Bodnar and the Camera Method for the plasma reviews, if you go look at the Panasonic reviews in the last year, most are at 41ms and the camera method shows 23ms.

Interesting right? The end result of this is that plasma’s cannot be compared to led/ldc timings from Leo Bodnar, they are just not apples to apples. Funny that Pioneer had a game mode etc and it actually made the lag worse, I am sure I read people in the past state that it felt like less lag, placebo effect??

Any thoughts or ideas? I went back to use my Pioneer Elite Kuro for gaming, its only 50 inches but the blur and uniformity destroys the led’s I have. Ironically lag wise it feels the same as the fastest led I have ( 19ms) so that was a pleasant surprise.

Thank you for this very useful post!

Out of curiosity, have hard figures been posted anywhere for the 1080P Kuros? I used to have a PRO-101FD that was an absolute pleasure to game on. From my experience, ISF/Pure was usable, but the game profile felt noticeably faster and I had no complaints. I foolishly sold it to fund a secondhand 60" Kuro that didn't pan out and wish that I had just kept it stored away until I found the space for it.

I now have a 65" Panasonic S60 (I actually preferred it to the ZT/VT/ST after getting hands-on thanks in no small part to the absence of an AR filter -- go figure) and it does a commendable job with gaming. For many faster paced games, however, I prefer a smaller screen and have a low lag Asus monitor for that reason... even if it does look like hell compared to the plasma.

truth. I wish now that I had bought the 60" Pioneer instead of the 50" way back. But, at the time 50" seemed huge.

Hang onto that 50"!

 

[jaosobno]

What's a good 32" LCD Tv?

I've been looking at the Sony KDL-32W705, is there anything better for about the same price?

(Can't go bigger than 32")

For that price range, this is probably the best model. I've bought one 2 days ago (only 42").