Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
What price point are you looking for?
Plasma, LCD, OLED, LED, best tv for next gen
- Thread starter spannicus
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What price point are you looking for?
FallingEdge
Member
Sony w900a ordered. Should be shipped on Friday. Get here sometime next week. Going to be a nice upgrade from one of these:
I'm excited!
I'm excited!
Got my Panasonic VT65 yesterday! Spent most of the day testing different ISF Calibrated settings. Have a couple I like, but have booked an ISF Calibrator to come round mine in a few weeks once it's burned it in (just in time for the PS4)!
Suffice to say, STUNNING picture quality. I think it might actually have a hairs better black level than the Pioneer (10G) Kuro.
Quick mobile pic.
Suffice to say, STUNNING picture quality. I think it might actually have a hairs better black level than the Pioneer (10G) Kuro.
Quick mobile pic.
Panasonic are ceasing production of all their Plasma's in December (a month's time). So you're taking a big gamble right now by doing so. I say grab one whilst you can with a 5 year warranty if you can (mine came free with one).
lostinblue
Banned
That's really sad to hear.
But I believe it's a territorial Panasonic issue. I know a case where someone complained about a GT30 having a retention blob, and got a ST60 as a replacement.
They're very "no questions asked" here, and I never even had a VT/ZT.
They're very different sets, those two.
It's really hard to explain but Panasonic uses binary subfields; while Pioneer used the contiguous method.
Kuro blacks were a byproduct of this, the reason Pioneer went there originally apparently having more to do with the complete annihilation of DFC. Anyway, that meant Pioneer Kuro theoretically bad at displaying a faithful color palette but really good at motion and blacks; they partially negated this by using and abusing colour quantization, dithering and interpolation.
Panasonic took all these years to reach them via a more natural, non-compromise fashion approach; that means the VT/ZT60 sets have all the properties Kuro had, slighly worse at DFC (if anything because it was non-existing on Kuro's), better color depth, better peak light and much less stress on the panel. They're probably gonna have longer useful lives for that alone. It's also cheaper to produce than the Pioneer approach (Pioneer was bleeding money on the Kuros).
The whole heavy interpolation going on the Kuros in order to get a certain color probably helps against IR though; hence me doing this detour.
I don't think there is a direct correlation, but the Kuro example is very different.
Yup. We've covered most of it.
Here's CNET's list. It covers the plasmas pretty well.
http://reviews.cnet.com/best-tvs/
Here's CNET's list. It covers the plasmas pretty well.
http://reviews.cnet.com/best-tvs/
Travis Touchdown
Member
I've bought a Sony Bravia 32" LED KDL-HX753/755 last summer and I'm fine for the upcoming gen I think. For the next one I'll probably switch to a 4K
Haint
Member
Maybe if they were still using the power draws of '08/'09, but not with today's ES nonsense. I don't think the VT/ZT can even comfortably hit 40fL's, while the 9/9.5 Kuro's could reputedly go well into the 40's if not 50's.
Unknown Soldier
Member
Got my 65VT60, been playing around with it. I've been using the CNET settings as a first rough calibration, though I notice it's not much different from the built-in THX Cinema setting.
Out of the box, image retention doesn't seem to be a noticeable problem with my panel. I haven't really played any games on it a long period of time but I did go through the Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2 demo briefly just because I was testing the input lag and the HUD in the upper left corner of the screen wasn't still there after 15 minutes of playing Ryu badly and getting my ass handed to me by random enemies.
I can't notice the difference in image quality between Game Mode and Not Game Mode. Maybe I should watch a movie to see the difference more obviously. It looks like Panasonic really stepped it up with Game Mode this year, as you can use your calibrated settings with it and they look almost the same with it On and Off.
I don't have any way of testing it but input lag seems good on this TV with Game Mode. Ryu would disagree and tell me to Get Good but I've always sucked at Ninja Gaiden so whatevs. I don't play fighting games either so unless someone wants to gift me a copy of some fighting game on PSN or Steam I won't be able to test this TV with any of that.
The TV has a very slight buzz which can be heard when displaying brighter scenes but it's largely drowned out by the fan on back of this set. Yes, plasmas have always had fans on them but this TV has a noticeably loud fan. From what I read it's because of the way Panasonic mounted the fan to the back panel it resonates with the metal and it's surprisingly loud compared to the silence of my old LCD TV. At least it doesn't buzz loudly and constantly like a fluorescent light the way the Samsung plasma I returned did. I wonder if there are any user mods that I can make to quieten the fan a bit.
The TV has slightly better motion resolution without Game Mode and Dejudder set to Weak than with Game Mode. The difference is largely a wash for gaming but watching movies and TV seems better with a Dejudder setting of some kind. I'm not sure if I'm imagining it or not but there seems to be slight offset with lip sync when Game Mode is left off. I'll fuck around with my home theater and see if I can make that go away, starting with HDMI 1.3 source and output should automatically sync audio and video and eliminate the need for manual adjustments for lip sync.
I watched some YouTube using the Smart TV app. Hooray for Smart TV gimmicks.
I wonder if I should abuse the panel a bit with FFXIV, an MMO with a lot of persistent UI elements, and see if I can make some IR appear.
Out of the box, image retention doesn't seem to be a noticeable problem with my panel. I haven't really played any games on it a long period of time but I did go through the Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2 demo briefly just because I was testing the input lag and the HUD in the upper left corner of the screen wasn't still there after 15 minutes of playing Ryu badly and getting my ass handed to me by random enemies.
I can't notice the difference in image quality between Game Mode and Not Game Mode. Maybe I should watch a movie to see the difference more obviously. It looks like Panasonic really stepped it up with Game Mode this year, as you can use your calibrated settings with it and they look almost the same with it On and Off.
I don't have any way of testing it but input lag seems good on this TV with Game Mode. Ryu would disagree and tell me to Get Good but I've always sucked at Ninja Gaiden so whatevs. I don't play fighting games either so unless someone wants to gift me a copy of some fighting game on PSN or Steam I won't be able to test this TV with any of that.
The TV has a very slight buzz which can be heard when displaying brighter scenes but it's largely drowned out by the fan on back of this set. Yes, plasmas have always had fans on them but this TV has a noticeably loud fan. From what I read it's because of the way Panasonic mounted the fan to the back panel it resonates with the metal and it's surprisingly loud compared to the silence of my old LCD TV. At least it doesn't buzz loudly and constantly like a fluorescent light the way the Samsung plasma I returned did. I wonder if there are any user mods that I can make to quieten the fan a bit.
The TV has slightly better motion resolution without Game Mode and Dejudder set to Weak than with Game Mode. The difference is largely a wash for gaming but watching movies and TV seems better with a Dejudder setting of some kind. I'm not sure if I'm imagining it or not but there seems to be slight offset with lip sync when Game Mode is left off. I'll fuck around with my home theater and see if I can make that go away, starting with HDMI 1.3 source and output should automatically sync audio and video and eliminate the need for manual adjustments for lip sync.
I watched some YouTube using the Smart TV app. Hooray for Smart TV gimmicks.
I wonder if I should abuse the panel a bit with FFXIV, an MMO with a lot of persistent UI elements, and see if I can make some IR appear.
Applesauce
Boom! Bitch-slapped!
$2385 is the cheapest I have seen it from Abe's of Maine. I have never ordered from that website though, that is a pretty decent price.
All these reviews of the VT60 + Panasonic ending their plasma line have me on the verge of pulling the trigger on a 60".
Is GT60 the one without the fan?
lostinblue
Banned
Yes. fanless VT60 Lite.
X60, ST60 and GT60 have no fans; their power supply can be a little noisy over white backgrounds, if you're standing close; this on X60 and ST60 (GT60's don't get sold here, so I've never seen one).
VT60 and ZT60 have fans.
That's the one I'll get, then. I'll have to settle for 50" unfortunately. It really sucks that there's no 55" GT60. Why, Panasonic, why.
lostinblue
Banned
They didn't want to cannibalize VT60 sales, clearly.
It's a good choice, one I can't sadly make, as Panasonic doesn't sell GT models over here or the neighboring country. I could only import them from France or Italy.
I'm lucky I don't need more than a 50 incher to my game room though; I'll probably go for a 50VT60.
ProjectGemini07
Banned
Best TV for $500 is without a doubt the Samsung 720p 51" plasma.
Yes, it's 720p, and no, it doesn't matter. Contrast is pretty much the whole game, resolution is not nearly as important.
http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/the-best-500-tv/
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_...-resolution-rumble-720p-plasma-vs-4k-led-lcd/
Set is on sale at both BB and Kmart/Sears on BF for around $430. Beats the pants off of far more expensive LCD's.
If your budget is higher, get a Panasonic 1080p plasma while you still can.
Yes, it's 720p, and no, it doesn't matter. Contrast is pretty much the whole game, resolution is not nearly as important.
http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/the-best-500-tv/
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_...-resolution-rumble-720p-plasma-vs-4k-led-lcd/
Set is on sale at both BB and Kmart/Sears on BF for around $430. Beats the pants off of far more expensive LCD's.
If your budget is higher, get a Panasonic 1080p plasma while you still can.
undercoverb0ss
Member
FWIW cost on the TV is around 2100-2200, so I wouldn't expect it to go much cheaper than 2300.
Pearlito's Way
Neo Member
I wanted to invest in a VT60 for the longest, but the fact that I watch a lot of sportscenter, sports in general, and shows with logos always have me skeptic about burn in and IR. Can someone comment on whether or not this is a concern I should be worried about. Any and all comments would be greatly appreciated.
Getting a 720p TV just feels wrong.
I'm saving up for this one: http://ncix.ca/products/?sku=85409&vpn=KDL40R450A&manufacture=Sony Consumer Electronics&promoid=1391
lostinblue
Banned
After the breaking-in hours it shouldn't be.
Within the breaking in I really can't recommend it; I know someone that got his plasma right in time for Tour de France and saw the whole thing on a straight off the box plasma; never ran the scrolling bar during the marathon too. I think he still has the Eurosport logo plastered on it till this day, albeit more faded at this point. That was really irresponsible of him to do on the first few hours though and we warned him.
Outside of the breaking-in hours you should be fine, unless you're really unlucky and get a set more prone to IR than others. Seeing it's late in the production year I wouldn't be too concerned, but I can't vouch for it.
lostinblue
Banned
It does; I struggled quite a bit with that "I look forward not back" mentality until I took the plunge on one, but I can really say it was a very good purchase.
Essentially with plasmas, they're halving the resolution rather than the image quality. Panny X60's amazingly hit most of the marketing feats VT60 does in regards to professional calibration. Stuff like DCI 98%.
I really wouldn't go for a 720p Sammy plasma over a Panasonic one though, like... never. yeah. Then again I don't know if they're still being stocked in some regions.
Sony R400A's are good for the price, no doubt.
But I don't think they're better than a 720p plasma.
Pearlito's Way
Neo Member
Thanks for your input.. What exactly is the breaking in period, and how long does it last?
It does; I struggled quite a bit with that "I look forward not back" mentality until I took the plunge on one, but I can really say it was a very good purchase.
But I don't think they're better than a 720p plasma.
Hm, I'll have to mull that over. Selection sucks serious ass here in Canada, so I'll have to even see what my options are. I'm not super picky about seeing every last pixel, but I would like to have something that's going to stay capable.
Edit: yeah, lame, its $649 in Canada
lostinblue
Banned
Usually 200 hours, but it's 200 hours out of convenience as the phosphor still changes a little after that. That's also why Plasma calibrations should only be made when the plasma already worked for some time.
Phosphor gets more and more obedient as it ages, so you want to things 1. you want it to age 2. you want it to age uniformly.
Because of the uniformity thing, you can run a break in like this.
If you do that, you should have a more efficient plasma in less hours (seeing it's more intensive and uniform for the panel to do those transitions like that) so the hour rating is not a gold standard, just an indicator. It's also optional at this point (older plasmas came with the video and instructions to break in)
I didn't break-in my last plasma with those slides (unlike previous sets I owned), instead I used it normally, and after a good deal of use it reached the phosphor maturity it ought to have; it's no issue, but in the beginning getting some mild-prolonged IR was easy, same can't be said now.
Haint
Member
1024x768 though so the pixels should be very noticeable at closer distances and/or with sharper eyesight. Probably want to check out a floor model estimating your ~viewing distance before you buy.
Got my Panasonic VT65 yesterday! Spent most of the day testing different ISF Calibrated settings. Have a couple I like, but have booked an ISF Calibrator to come round mine in a few weeks once it's burned it in (just in time for the PS4)!
Suffice to say, STUNNING picture quality. I think it might actually have a hairs better black level than the Pioneer (10G) Kuro.
Quick mobile pic.
Welcome to the club, stunning TV. Need to wait 2 weeks to play Resogun on it, sadface.
This is exactly what I was hoping to hear. I didn't want to necessarily have to run the slides if I felt I could take care of it within the first 100-200 hours.
Unknown Soldier
Member
I ran the slides on it the first 10 hours or so it was on, then I got tired of watching solid primary colors on my TV and just started using it.
I just played a few hours of FFXIV and I was cycling the UI on and off every now and then and moving the camera around in circles for like 30 seconds. No IR to report from doing this, as we all know MMOs tend to have a ton of solid color UI elements all over the screen and everything seems okay.
This TV seems to have very minimal linebleeding too, I heard the Samsung plasmas have that a lot more but I'm typing this post in Firefox and I don't see any linebleeding at all in a web browser which tends to have a lot of contrasting light and dark elements.
Black text on white tends to be kind of a faded gray color instead of black, but I'm not using this TV as a computer monitor anyways so the point is largely moot. The only time I'll see the Windows UI is when I'm launching games or opening my media player.
I just played a few hours of FFXIV and I was cycling the UI on and off every now and then and moving the camera around in circles for like 30 seconds. No IR to report from doing this, as we all know MMOs tend to have a ton of solid color UI elements all over the screen and everything seems okay.
This TV seems to have very minimal linebleeding too, I heard the Samsung plasmas have that a lot more but I'm typing this post in Firefox and I don't see any linebleeding at all in a web browser which tends to have a lot of contrasting light and dark elements.
Black text on white tends to be kind of a faded gray color instead of black, but I'm not using this TV as a computer monitor anyways so the point is largely moot. The only time I'll see the Windows UI is when I'm launching games or opening my media player.
I upgraded from a Samsung 40" LCD 1080p TV to a Samsung 51" Plasma 3D TV (PN51E550.) Professionally calibrated by a ISF certified technician after a 200 hour break in period. Both Xbox 360 and PS3 games look stunning, and Blu-rays look spectacular. I could have gone for a Panasonic model, but I've had good luck with Samsung models. I got it for $900 in March of 2012 as a brand new model. Very pleased with my decision.
Use D-Nice's settings for it instead, over at the calibration forums. If you don't want to download his app to use them, just open the zip downloaded XML files containing the settings (found in the forum thread) in notepad or dreamweaver and you can read the settings that way.
The Mango Sentinel
Member
Which tv's do you not have to worry about burn in? Is it only LCD's?
People will tell you all displays are, but PDPs are commonly thought to be the most prone to image retention and burn-in. OLED displays may share the issue, though I couldn't comment on that.
But yeah, I'd say LCD TVs are the 'safest' in that regard. I have never seen or heard of a modern LCD display showing signs of burn-in in consumer use. Not that I've cared to look and search.
Unknown Soldier
Member
Are the D-nice settings a lot better? His prep regimen you have to run before you use his settings is pretty hardcore.
FrankNitty
Member
Got my Panasonic VT65 yesterday! Spent most of the day testing different ISF Calibrated settings. Have a couple I like, but have booked an ISF Calibrator to come round mine in a few weeks once it's burned it in (just in time for the PS4)!
Suffice to say, STUNNING picture quality. I think it might actually have a hairs better black level than the Pioneer (10G) Kuro.
Quick mobile pic.
Grats on the purchase but hmm no to that statement coming from someone who owns both a 500M and ZT60 500M black level is still darker and it is actually measured and proven and as mentioned before Kuro's have high peak white. the ZT in ISF mode cannot go over 36 at least I haven't been able to get it over 36 in mid panel brightness without sacrificing something. I have heard of a few professionals getting it to about 37.5 tops but that's it for ZT in ISF of course unless you go with a different mode then it will go high but again with sacrifice
Arrogant Bastard
Banned
Anyone with a W900A that got their PS4 tonight? How is it!
Unknown Soldier
Member
Well, for those of you who just got or will buy a new Panasonic plasma, do not repeat what I did.
After the first few hours of FFXIV, I got confident that I could just do what I wanted. So I ended up playing for almost the rest of the day. Out of curiosity I put on the slides I have been using for burn-in, and look at that, the UI elements from the game were clearly visible on the solid colored slides. Huge success, I have achieved image retention on my expensive new plasma TV!
After a few hours of running the Screen Wipe the shadows of my FFXIV UI are beginning to fade. I'll just leave the wiping thing running overnight and see if I can make it go away before I start burning Killzone's HUD into my new TV when I get my PS4.
I did it for science. Don't try this at home on your new TVs.
I do hope that this won't be a recurring thing every time I get a new game and play it a lot. I don't need overlapping shadows of game UIs on my TV all the time.
After the first few hours of FFXIV, I got confident that I could just do what I wanted. So I ended up playing for almost the rest of the day. Out of curiosity I put on the slides I have been using for burn-in, and look at that, the UI elements from the game were clearly visible on the solid colored slides. Huge success, I have achieved image retention on my expensive new plasma TV!
After a few hours of running the Screen Wipe the shadows of my FFXIV UI are beginning to fade. I'll just leave the wiping thing running overnight and see if I can make it go away before I start burning Killzone's HUD into my new TV when I get my PS4.
I did it for science. Don't try this at home on your new TVs.
I do hope that this won't be a recurring thing every time I get a new game and play it a lot. I don't need overlapping shadows of game UIs on my TV all the time.
I just bought a Sony Bravia KDL-55W905 TV in anticipation for the PS4 and it is mind blowing. So sharp, best colours I've ever seen on a TV and only 6ms of input lag, I've been shaving seconds off my fastest laps that have stood for months on Most Wanted. I came from a TV with 56ms of input lag and the difference is huge.
Always check the input lag before you buy a TV if you plan on gaming.
Always check the input lag before you buy a TV if you plan on gaming.
Unknown Soldier
Member
Unknown Soldier
Break in period with slides has to be a minimum of the first 100 hours.
From 100-300 hours you have to be worried about Image-Retention/Burn In the most.
Sure, if I had received my TV a month before my PS4, such a thing would be possible. It's not. I want to use my TV now, not after a month of watching solid colors day and night.
If it's not possible to use a plasma TV until you watched solid colors day and night for 100 to 300 hours, then the technology deserved to die. Panasonic held out a lot longer than it was financially responsible for them to.
They're supposed to be better. Don't worry about doing his regiment, it's not really necessary. Just have about 100 hours burn in first and you should be fine. Spoke to a professional calibrator who does reviews for AV Forums and even he said the burn in is the only important thing. His test process is a bit extreme, though it can't hurt either.
I don't have the 500M, but instead the LX5090. Which in HDTV tests review measured 0.0031 cd/m2. I've read that the KRP-500 measures ANSI 0.008 cd/m2. In comparison the VT65 measures 0.003 cd/m2 and ANSI 0.007 cd/m2, which is still a fraction better.
I don't know about the ZT, but with the VT there's people who have been able to hit 38.9 fL, see here.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1467563/o...hread-no-street-price-talk/2460#post_23406728
But comparing my Kuro and VT65 side by side, the VT65 is definitely a fraction darker. I don't know if that's to do with age or general performance, but that's just my current observation.
Quick update on the KDL42W654. I am well happy with this TV. Apart from not having PC input (need to buy DVI to HDMI). And headphone jack not being accessible when the TV is being wall mounted, everything else is great. Picture quality is great, good extra features like all the apps and streaming tablet/smartphone feature. However the thing that stood out for me was input lag, it is great, played Street Fighter and this game has never felt this responsive.
Edit:
Another annoying this is not getting 4OD and iTV player apps
Edit2 another problem with it is no access to USB input if you are wall mounting.
Edit:
Another annoying this is not getting 4OD and iTV player apps
Edit2 another problem with it is no access to USB input if you are wall mounting.
TalentBurke
Member
I live in the U.S. and I ordered that T.V. from overseas. One more week, I'm so hyped. Gonna use it for my ps4