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[TalentBurke]

It'll support 60Hz too - don't forget there are a ton of Europeans with these sets playing PS360 games at 720p/60 and soon hopefully in 1080p/60

They just use 50Hz because it is the TVs standard over here




Does anyone know if passive 3DTVs have any issues displaying non 3D content? No dimming or visible filters over the screen?

Thank you very much!

 

[lostinblue]

I know the GT is in Europe now, it used to be a USA model too.

Sure, but that regional difference is why the GT60 is not in that table.

 

[LegoDad]

Thank you very much!

I wouldn't have done that. You won't be able to get over the air signals and you have to convert the power. Your USA DVD's might also not work on it. It's a tricky thing when going from 50hz to 60hz, has nothing to do with FPS.

Sure, but that regional difference is why the GT60 is not in that table.

That makes no sense. I'm saying why don't they make it for America anymore. They had the other models and just axed the GT in america. Same thing with Sony only bringing the 55" w900 to america, when there are other versions in the world. It's a pain.

 

[offtopic]

some test on different TVs:

Reflections:
http://www.rtings.com/info/tv-reflections-matte-vs-glossy

Contrast Ratio:
http://www.rtings.com/info/what-is-the-contrast-ratio

Input Lag:
http://www.rtings.com/info/what-is-the-input-lag

Plasma Panasonic FTW!

Actually the f8500 looks like the clear winner there because it can put out almost 2x the amount of light as the s60 which overcomes that .1% difference very easily. Of course, it is significantly more expensive than the s60.

 

[lostinblue]

That makes no sense. I'm saying why don't they make it for America anymore. They had the other models and just axed the GT in america. Same thing with Sony only bringing the 55" w900 to america, when there are other versions in the world. It's a pain.

Regional nuances. They also have the S60 and we (europeans) don't.

And GT's are not really standard in Europe: Portugal, Spain and UK lack them, probably more countries (Italy, Germany and France have them).

Also, GT's and ST's had regional nuances before, the US ST50 was the european GT50 (no shit).

Someone isn't testing these right because on displaylag.com the ST60 has a display lag of 75ms....

Jesus, no.

The ST60 has 54 ms lag via the high speed camera mode, 75 ms via the Leo Bodnar method.


They give off different results because:

It’s Harsher On Plasma TVs

When we first got our hands on the Leo Bodnar device, we were surprised when we obtained (nearly) the same 48ms figure from a Panasonic ST50 PDP (plasma display panel) and a new Panasonic ET60 LED LCD (both running in their fastest Game mode). From our experience of playing a decent amount of first-person shooter games online, the Panasonic ST50 is a total joy to play on compared to the LCD. The former feels considerably smoother than the latter, but both are returning basically the same figure.

(...) An LCD-based display updates the screen from top to bottom, one line at a time, which means that a player’s brain cannot make sense of a part of the image until it has been completely rendered. The LCD’s top-to-bottom addressing can be seen with the Leo Bodnar lag tester: measuring the top patch tends to give a lower number than measuring the centre patch from our tests. However, on a PDP, the result is always the same on both patches.

Because plasma displays work by flashing the screen several times just to draw one video frame, on a PDP, an intermediate image doesn’t look half-drawn in the same way that it would on an LCD. Instead, it would have very low gradation (and brightness). In theory, this means that the player has a better chance of seeing the entire gameplay screen, albeit not at full quality, since the subfield drive throws out different steps of the dynamic range quickly just to draw one fully-gradated frame.

This is the key difference. On the LCD, obviously our eyes can’t make sense of parts of the frame which haven’t been drawn yet (parts of the frame are either fully rendered or not), but on the plasma, we get extra temporal precision in the feedback loop, since we can see rough versions of the frames before they’re even fully drawn. And, in a fast-paced game, our brain doesn’t care if it’s seeing incomplete images – it should still be able to make out rough outlines and shapes.

The incomplete frames don’t necessarily even have to be coherent to our eyes. Even if we can detect the screen responding to our finger movements at all, it should be enough to make the game feel much more responsive.

In isolation, and for slow-paced games, this is all basically moot. But in a first-person shooter (even one which only runs at 30 frames per second) or racing game, etc, where the entire screen is moving and split-second decisions count, we think the PDP’s subfield drive helps tremendously in making the gameplay feel smooth. After all, in reality, playing fast-paced games is a continuous feedback loop between the player and the screen.

How does this explain why plasma televisions that feel much more responsive are shortchanged by the Leo Bodnar input lag tester which returns a higher figure? Well, we surmised that the flashing white bars need to hit a specific brightness threshold before they can be picked up by the device’s photosensor for lag time calculation: if you decrease or increase the on-screen luminance using the TV’s [Contrast] or [Backlight] control, the Leo Bodnar’s lag number should rise or drop correspondingly.

A plasma’s subframe, while not bright enough to trigger the photosensor, can readily be perceived by us in the sensorial feedback loop, thus accounting for the discrepancy between the displayed input lag figure and the actual responsiveness of a PDP.

Ironically, the older stopwatch/camera method – though inconsistent – is capable of capturing subframes before they’re fully drawn (since it’s not limited by any luminance threshold, and the shutter speed is much higher than the panel refresh rate), and so more accurately reflects how responsive a PDP is. This is the reason why we continue to run both tests on most HDTVs we review despite the photo method being such a labour-intensive process.

Source: http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/input-lag

Fast Camera Method is where it's at for Plasmas; real ST60 input lag really is 54 ms (and it's not small by any means) but 75 ms is an unrealistic figure; your GT60 is not 23 ms in Leo Bodnar either, it's 43.4 ms, except that's not really indicative of how responsive it really is.

Actually the f8500 looks like the clear winner there because it can put out almost 2x the amount of light as the s60 which overcomes that .1% difference very easily. Of course, it is significantly more expensive than the s60.

You guys and the "amount of light" figures.

No calibrated TV goes over 120 cd/m^2, usually lower... And it's mostly relevant for LCD's because the darn things are like a paper sheet with light coming from behind, try to do that during daylight with a piece of paper and you'll see jack shit because the light coming from the front is stronger, hence manufacturers pumping 400 cd/m^2 through them. Suffices to be said, no color gamut resists that kind of light going through it so it's the equivalent of killing bee's with a nuke for image quality sake.

Of course a plasma or OLED not hitting 100 cd/m^2 will be a dim one, but still more enjoyable than an LCD at that same value because they're different tech and they operate differently (a plasma is not backlit, as OLED isn't.)

Stop giving so much thought to the peak white; after 120 cd/m^2 it doesn't matter as much, if not for the fact that a ST60 at half life (100.000 hours of usage past) might still be as bright as a VT50 out of the box, but that's because VT50 really was dim.

 

[sladeums]

These two sites most recently noted also give pretty different numbers for the Samsung FH6030 :
rtings.com = 75 ms
displaylag = 59 ms

I don't know who to believe.

 

[cpp_is_king]

My gaming area isn't very bright. How do I decide between the following:

Panasonic S60
Panasonic ST60
Samsung F8500

I'm not considering the VT60 or the ZT60 because I need a 50" screen. One area where the Samsung clearly wins is in the number of HDMI inputs, is kind of important to me.

Aside from this, I don't really know what all these different comparison factors mean. I assume the F8500 will be a significantly better, but how (in layman's terms)?

It helps that the Samsung is Black Friday discounted right now and is $1,000 off regular price, so if I buy it in the next few days it would be a huge savings.

Edit: Apparently the input lag on the Samsung is > 100 ms unless you set the input type to PC. What does this mean exactly? Why would relabeling the input make a difference for lag? Can I only do this on a single HDMI port, or can I do it on all of them?

 

[WheelHoss1]

That is pretty much the same TV...

Really? So my 5 year-old TV holds up pretty well. I thought it did, because when I go to Best Buy, sure, some of the TVs look brighter, but they don't look very different.

With an S60, I'm sure I'd see a noticeable bump in IQ, and for less than a grand, they're hard to pass up before Panny Plasmas are a thing of the past . . .

 

[offtopic]

You guys and the "amount of light" figures.

No calibrated TV goes over 120 cd/m^2, usually lower... And it's mostly relevant for LCD's because the darn things are like a paper sheet with light coming from behind, try to do that during daylight with a piece of paper and you'll see jack shit because the light coming from the front is stronger, hence manufacturers pumping 400 cd/m^2 through them. Suffices to be said, no color gamut resists that kind of light going through it so it's the equivalent of killing bee's with a nuke for image quality sake.

Of course a plasma or OLED not hitting 100 cd/m^2 will be a dim one, but still more enjoyable than an LCD at that same value because they're different tech and they operate differently (a plasma is not backlit, as OLED isn't.)

Stop giving so much thought to the peak white; after 120 cd/m^2 it doesn't matter as much, if not for the fact that a ST60 at half life (100.000 hours of usage past) might still be as bright as a VT50 out of the box, but that's because VT50 really was dim.

You want it to put out a different amount of light based on the amount of ambient lighting. There is no one 'correct' calibration figure. What are are talking about is 'reference' level lighting where there is very little ambient light.

I have both "daylight" and "nightime" modes for my tv and I definitely use them, they are quite different and they really make the tv shine depending on the environment. Of course, the colors (and white balance) are calibrated different for the daylight setting so that they quite easily retain a reference level color gamut. I haven't measured the brightness of the tv in "daylight" mode but suffice to say it isn't peak but it is also well beyond what the ST is putting out (just from messing around with them in a well lit store). There is a reason plasmas don't show well in retail and it isn't entirely because everything is pumping out the 'vivid' setting. Some/many home environments are just as bright as those stores during daylight hours.

And, yes, that difference in brightness for the f8500 (a plasma) puts it in a different class than the ST when it comes to watching in a bright room even if the ST has a .1% advantage in screen glare/reflection (which was my original point).

 

[lostinblue]

You want it to put out a different amount of light based on the amount of ambient lighting. There is no one 'correct' calibration figure. What are are talking about is 'reference' level lighting where there is very little ambient light.

I have both "daylight" and "nightime" modes for my tv and I definitely use them, they are quite different and they really make the tv shine depending on the environment. Of course, the colors (and white balance) are calibrated different for the daylight setting so that they quite easily retain a reference level color gamut. I haven't measured the brightness of the tv in "daylight" mode but suffice to say it isn't peak but it is also well beyond what the ST is putting out (just from messing around with them in a well lit store). There is a reason plasmas don't show well in retail and it isn't entirely because everything is pumping out the 'vivid' setting. Some/many home environments are just as bright as those stores during daylight hours.

And, yes, that difference in brightness for the f8500 (a plasma) puts it in a different class than the ST when it comes to watching in a bright room even if the ST has a .1% advantage in screen glare/reflection (which was my original point).

Sure, it was not a vendetta against you (and the ST60 is actually a very bright plasma, more so than GT60 and VT60), but against people that actually value if their LCD outputs 380 cd/m^2 or not, there's definitely a point where brightness turns into diminishing returns, and it's so strong that a calibration can't be put in place; my point of how light output gets lost on LCD's is also definitely on spot, as F8500 being a plasma, hits 180 cd/m^2 and it's called to be OLED-like; LCD's don't. The principle is the same as the one for home-made projectors made out of LCD's a few years back, the higher the light output the worse the image would be.

F8500 being, of course, in a league of it's own. More than 120 cd/m^2 can be used to give an extra omph on a strongly illuminated room, but after a certain degree it can actually be more of a curse than a blessing on current technologies, again, F8500 stands somewhat apart in all this, as it can certainly generate more light before the colors goes astray, I dunno if it can go all the way until 180 cd/m^2 giving off accurately calibrated colors though.

As for the plasma's not doing well in stores, I actually think it has more to do with the glass that no filter can completely disguise, but sure, people in stores look for brightness first, color accuracy afterwards. Doesn't change the fact Plasmas can be considered very accurate and ideal for today's standards and pretty doable for bright rooms; albeit not the best for bright stores, yup.


What TV set do currently you have? The Samsung F8500?

 

[offtopic]

Sure, it was not a vendetta against you (and the ST60 is actually a very bright plasma, more so than GT60 and VT60), but against people that actually value if their LCD outputs 380 cd/m^2 or not, there's definitely a point where brightness turns into diminishing returns, and it's so strong that a calibration can't be put in place; my point of how light output gets lost on LCD's is also definitely on spot, as F8500 being a plasma, hits 180 cd/m^2 and it's called to be OLED-like; LCD's don't. The principle is the same as the one for home-made projectors made out of LCD's a few years back, the higher the light output the worse the image would be.

F8500 being, of course, in a league of it's own. More than 120 cd/m^2 can be used to give an extra omph on a strongly illuminated room, but after a certain degree it can actually be more of a curse than a blessing on current technologies, again, F8500 stands somewhat apart in all this, as it can certainly generate more light before the colors goes astray, I dunno if it can go all the way until 180 cd/m^2 giving off accurately calibrated colors though.

As for the plasma's not doing well in stores, I actually think it has more to do with the glass that no filter can completely disguise, but sure, people in stores look for brightness first, color accuracy afterwards. Doesn't change the fact Plasmas can be considered very accurate and ideal for today's standards and pretty doable for bright rooms; albeit not the best for bright stores, yup.


What TV set do currently you have? The Samsung F8500?

After carefully comparing the f8500 and f8000 in my house for about a week (not side-by-side but one after the other) I chose the f8000 based on how it looked in multiple environments and the way we use it (hey, I've seen my kids pause spongebob on there for like 6hrs). I also like no half-life (ever changing pixel brightness), lower power consumption and the superior aesthetic when it was off (ok, so my wife weighed in heavily in this regard). The image quality was very similar - slight edge to the f8000 in daytime use and a slight edge to the f8500 at night (or controlled light) use. Price as about the same. And, yes, the f8000 can melt your eyeballs if you really crank it .

 

[TalentBurke]

I wouldn't have done that. You won't be able to get over the air signals and you have to convert the power. Your USA DVD's might also not work on it. It's a tricky thing when going from 50hz to 60hz, has nothing to do with FPS.



That makes no sense. I'm saying why don't they make it for America anymore. They had the other models and just axed the GT in america. Same thing with Sony only bringing the 55" w900 to america, when there are other versions in the world. It's a pain.

I made sure I did some reading up on the T.V. before I bought it, it's a multiset and from what I read, it can be used in the U.S. A converter comes in the box and if anything the store I said go in and buy one also. I'll find out in about 3 days.

 

[Canon]

I tried the 3D glasses of the ST60 at a store today and they were uncomfortable. Anyone know where to buy better, more comfortable glasses? For people who already wear glasses?

 

[LegoDad]

Really? So my 5 year-old TV holds up pretty well. I thought it did, because when I go to Best Buy, sure, some of the TVs look brighter, but they don't look very different.

With an S60, I'm sure I'd see a noticeable bump in IQ, and for less than a grand, they're hard to pass up before Panny Plasmas are a thing of the past . . .

It's still a 60 hz TV, the only difference is they added motionflow 120hz to the TV, I do not know if the screen as been improved much or at all.

I am replacing my LN40a550 with a KDL-55w900a or KDL-55w802a..

I tried the 3D glasses of the ST60 at a store today and they were uncomfortable. Anyone know where to buy better, more comfortable glasses? For people who already wear glasses?

You can try the Sony Playstation 3D glasses. I think the Panasonic 3D glasses work great over my glasses, the Playstation glasses seem to block more light though.

 

[WheelHoss1]

It's still a 60 hz TV, the only difference is they added motionflow 120hz to the TV, I do not know if the screen as been improved much or at all.

I am replacing my LN40a550 with a KDL-55w900a or KDL-55w802a..



You can try the Sony Playstation 3D glasses. I think the Panasonic 3D glasses work great over my glasses, the Playstation glasses seem to block more light though.

I need to go to Best Buy. The newer Samsung is LED and mine isn't. So that should make a difference no?

 

[cpp_is_king]

My gaming area isn't very bright. How do I decide between the following:

Panasonic S60
Panasonic ST60
Samsung F8500

I'm not considering the VT60 or the ZT60 because I need a 50" screen. One area where the Samsung clearly wins is in the number of HDMI inputs, is kind of important to me.

Aside from this, I don't really know what all these different comparison factors mean. I assume the F8500 will be a significantly better, but how (in layman's terms)?

It helps that the Samsung is Black Friday discounted right now and is $1,000 off regular price, so if I buy it in the next few days it would be a huge savings.

Edit: Apparently the input lag on the Samsung is > 100 ms unless you set the input type to PC. What does this mean exactly? Why would relabeling the input make a difference for lag? Can I only do this on a single HDMI port, or can I do it on all of them?

I know this isn't that old of a message and I should wait, but I'm actually trying to make a purchase today if possible, otherwise since I'm going on vacation tomorrow it becomes difficult for me to make a purchase before the black friday sales expire. So if anyone happens to know the answers to this, it would really help me out!

Specifically, I'm concerned about the input lag on the F8500 and what it means that I have to use "PC" as the input type to get reduced input lag. What kind of differences I can expect with picture quality will be helpful as well.

 

[offtopic]

I think the f8500 is superior to those other options even if the space is pretty dark. The input lag is relatively high but that could potentially be addressed in future firmware updates or, almost certainly, in an evo kit upgrade that is unique to the high end Samsung line. You can set any/all hdmi inputs to PC mode if I recall correctly but there is some sacrifice in image quality that doesn't hurt for gaming but won't allow your video apps to look that great.

 

[BennyBlanco]

I know this isn't that old of a message and I should wait, but I'm actually trying to make a purchase today if possible, otherwise since I'm going on vacation tomorrow it becomes difficult for me to make a purchase before the black friday sales expire. So if anyone happens to know the answers to this, it would really help me out!

Specifically, I'm concerned about the input lag on the F8500 and what it means that I have to use "PC" as the input type to get reduced input lag. What kind of differences I can expect with picture quality will be helpful as well.

If it's for gaming, and you don't care about the 3D. I'd for with the s60 just for the price point alone. The 50in is currently $600 at the Sears website. It was coming up as "unavailable for ship to store" for me, but I was able to get them to price match the website in store after I called CS. $600 is a great price for a good performing TV. If you're set on a panasonic plasma like I was this is a good deal to jump on, I wasn't able to find any featured in any Black Friday stuff so far and the TVs are discontinued.

http://www.sears.com/panasonic-50in...p-05771531000P?prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=G1

It's certainly possible that a better deal will pop up on these over the next few weeks but they will just get harder to find as time goes on. The ST60 is an all around better picture and has more features but the input lag is significantly better with the S60,

 

[cpp_is_king]

If it's for gaming, and you don't care about the 3D. I'd for with the s60 just for the price point alone. The 50in is currently $600 at the Sears website. It was coming up as "unavailable for ship to store" for me, but I was able to get them to price match the website in store after I called CS. $600 is a great price for a good performing TV. If you're set on a panasonic plasma like I was this is a good deal to jump on, I wasn't able to find any featured in any Black Friday stuff so far and the TVs are discontinued.

http://www.sears.com/panasonic-50in...p-05771531000P?prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=G1

It's certainly possible that a better deal will pop up on these over the next few weeks but they will just get harder to find as time goes on. The ST60 is an all around better picture and has more features but the input lag is significantly better with the S60,

Well I also care about hooking up lots of consoles (both previous-gen systems, and both next-gen systems), so 2 HDMIs really kind of sucks. I realize the price differential is pretty large, but it's not a deal breaker for me. If the Samsung has better quality, and the input lag isn't an issue (which is the biggest thing I don't understand right now, about the PC input label thing) then I'd probably still go with it.

 

[BennyBlanco]

Well I also care about hooking up lots of consoles (both previous-gen systems, and both next-gen systems), so 2 HDMIs really kind of sucks. I realize the price differential is pretty large, but it's not a deal breaker for me.

Yea, it sucks. It's for my bedroom so I'm debating whether to just get an HDMI switch or a regular receiver. If money really is no issue I guess I'd go for the ST60. Better all around TV.

 

[Robot Pants]

I have a Samsung LN46A650 that I picked up 5 years ago. http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-LN46A650-46-Inch-1080p-Touch/dp/B001413D94/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

I a thinking of replacing it with a TV like this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0074FGP4Y/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

I am going to look at it tomorrow, but I'm wondering why my 5 year-old TV is selling on Amazon for $300 more than a new LED LCD (be it a lower-end model). Does my old TV have a better picture than I'm giving it credit for, and will I possibly be disappointed by a lower-end model even 5 years later with LED technology?

Wow. I'm pissed. I bought that bottom tv last week and it dropped 100 dollars since I did. Yay.

 

[WHOAguitarninja]

I am in the same boat as you. Is the tri luminous display really worth the xtra 5oo bucks? Any help between these 2 would be great.. I would also like to know a bit about the 47 inchl model Sony has as well. Its around a grand so its 500 cheaper but you loose 8 inches....

Please gurus... give me some advice!

The W900 has the most striking color reproduction i've ever seen on an LCD (it even beats many plasmas in this regard, in my opinion). I would say yes, triluminous is worth the extra coin. I haven't seen the 42 inch model and going by the smaller 650 it's not guaranteed to have the same low input latency of its big brother.

 

[Omnistalgic]

Can I get some feedback on these 3 TV's I'm torn with. I wanted a new 1080 display for PS4 next year and I'm seeing some decent deals online. This Samsung is the more affordable for the price, but I've been reading reviews and posts here about how great Sony's LED series are for gaming and picture quality. Thing is, I don't care about all this smart TV/3D integration and that seems to be what is driving up the price here.

While I know this Samsung model is a bit older, it's also $500 cheaper than the newer Sony model. Here's the models I'm looking at.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0074FGP4Y/?tag=neogaf0e-20

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AWKBZ0C/?tag=neogaf0e-20
There's also a cheaper 40in. Sony one I'm considering
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AWKBZQQ/?tag=neogaf0e-20

I don't need bells and whistles, just want my games to look awesome and low input lag because I play a decent amount of Street Fighter and Virtua FIghter.

Help guys?!

 

[Al Gore's Thermostat]

I use a 46" Samsung UN46C6500 from 2010. It's LED. It's perfect and I'll not replace it until I run it into the ground. Vibrant picture, no input lag, decent sound, four HDMI hookups, 1 component, and an optical out. It's so sleek and looks nice hanging on my wall.

The only kind of input lag I've ever experienced was with Killzone 2&3, even in game mode.

Can I get some feedback on these 3 TV's I'm torn with. I wanted a new 1080 display for PS4 next year and I'm seeing some decent deals online. This Samsung is the more affordable for the price, but I've been reading reviews and posts here about how great Sony's LED series are for gaming and picture quality. Thing is, I don't care about all this smart TV/3D integration and that seems to be what is driving up the price here.

While I know this Samsung model is a bit older, it's also $500 cheaper than the newer Sony model. Here's the models I'm looking at.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0074FGP4Y/?tag=neogaf0e-20

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AWKBZ0C/?tag=neogaf0e-20
There's also a cheaper 40in. Sony one I'm considering
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AWKBZQQ/?tag=neogaf0e-20

I don't need bells and whistles, just want my games to look awesome and low input lag because I play a decent amount of Street Fighter and Virtua FIghter.

Help guys?!

Always go with 120Hz+ .

 

[Azzurri]

Hey guys. Looking at the Samsung 55 fn7500 and the Sony w900a 55. Which is better? I know it's subjective.

Also is there any place that's offering deals? Like buy the tv and get a gift card or something like that

 

[Applesauce]

Hey guys. Looking at the Samsung 55 fn7500 and the Sony w900a 55. Which is better? I know it's subjective.

Also is there any place that's offering deals? Like buy the tv and get a gift card or something like that

Amazon is offering 6% rewards $$ on the Sony set you are looking at. But it isn't an instant credit, you have to wait up to 35 days. Still, that's $120.

 

[LegoDad]

Hey guys. Looking at the Samsung 55 fn7500 and the Sony w900a 55. Which is better? I know it's subjective.

Also is there any place that's offering deals? Like buy the tv and get a gift card or something like that

The Sony is better.

Can I get some feedback on these 3 TV's I'm torn with. I wanted a new 1080 display for PS4 next year and I'm seeing some decent deals online. This Samsung is the more affordable for the price, but I've been reading reviews and posts here about how great Sony's LED series are for gaming and picture quality. Thing is, I don't care about all this smart TV/3D integration and that seems to be what is driving up the price here.

While I know this Samsung model is a bit older, it's also $500 cheaper than the newer Sony model. Here's the models I'm looking at.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0074FGP4Y/?tag=neogaf0e-20

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AWKBZ0C/?tag=neogaf0e-20
There's also a cheaper 40in. Sony one I'm considering
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AWKBZQQ/?tag=neogaf0e-20

I don't need bells and whistles, just want my games to look awesome and low input lag because I play a decent amount of Street Fighter and Virtua FIghter.

Help guys?!

Like Above, the W802a is better.

I need to go to Best Buy. The newer Samsung is LED and mine isn't. So that should make a difference no?

You can go to best buy and check, but that LED is just edge lit, which usually causes clouding and bleeding around the edge and in the corners.

 

[DeVeAn]

So I like the Samsung on sale at Best Buy, 240hz is not worth it for gaming right? I have a 120hz Bravia from 2006 and its just that motionplus crap. Figured I go with the 120hz since its cheaper right?

 

[Fatal Futanari]

Lol that's the tv I was gonna recommend.

Here is a Sony(actually has better input lag than the 900A) that's about half the price.

http://store.sony.com/47-diag-w802a...id27-KDL47W802A/cat-27-catid-All-W-Series-TVs

They also have a 55inch for 15. I think these 3 Sony's are the best compromise between Input lag and PQ.

What's your price range If you don't mind me asking?

Yea but its 47inches. I thought I read somewhere that were was something bad about the W802a. Something about its PQ.

I was looking at this Samsung TV but it had active 3D and input lag is around 38ms i think.

Price range? Up to 2k. I'll be upgrading from a old 30inch Samsung 720p/1080i LCD. The cheaper the better though. But it needs to last me about 6 or 7 years.

 

[LegoDad]

So I like the Samsung on sale at Best Buy, 240hz is not worth it for gaming right? I have a 120hz Bravia from 2006 and its just that motionplus crap. Figured I go with the 120hz since its cheaper right?

Usually a 240hz tv is native 120hz with motionflow turned off. Is the Bravia actually 120hz or a 60hz tv with motionflow turned on?

Yea but its 47inches. I thought I read somewhere that were was something bad about the W802a. Something about its PQ.

I was looking at this Samsung TV but it had active 3D and input lag is around 38ms i think.

Price range? Up to 2k. I'll be upgrading from a old 30inch Samsung 720p/1080i LCD. The cheaper the better though. But it needs to last me about 6 or 7 years.

2k? You could go with the KDL-55w900a, it's 1,999 right now on sale.

 

[Fatal Futanari]

2k? You could go with the KDL-55w900a, it's 1,999 right now on sale.

Yea, I know it is but i'm shopping around before I finalize my purchase.

 

[TheLawyer]

Bit the bullet and put a deposit down for a 50' VT60 that will be coming in February. Never had a plasma before (nevermind a TV of that general quality) so extremely excited!

 

[Trevelyon]

Got my w900a for $1900 (ticketed 2,299) from JB HiFi here in Australia. Pretty goddam pleased with that price, got Pacific Rim in anticipation and PS4 all lined up for Friday.

Next gen time baby!

 

[LabouredSubterfuge]

After a lot of (soul) searching I decided on a 46" Sony W9. Will be picking up this weekend. It's been a while since I've grabbed an exciting new TV.

 

[gruenel]

The KDL-50W656 is currently €699 at Amazon Germany.

 

[Azzurri]

Amazon is offering 6% rewards $$ on the Sony set you are looking at. But it isn't an instant credit, you have to wait up to 35 days. Still, that's $120.

The Sony is better.



Like Above, the W802a is better.



You can go to best buy and check, but that LED is just edge lit, which usually causes clouding and bleeding around the edge and in the corners.

Cool, will check that out.

 

[AlimNassor]

Man, is 60hz good for gaming? I really want a 32/42 that isn't over 1000. )= But every TV so far is either: A. too big, too expensive or B. terrible for gaming.

I hear this is a good TV with game mode on. Thoughts?

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BCGRTFK/?tag=neogaf0e-20

 

[Haint]

These two sites most recently noted also give pretty different numbers for the Samsung FH6030 :
rtings.com = 75 ms
displaylag = 59 ms

I don't know who to believe.

rting is using the cloned timer method which is generally less accurate than displaylag's Leo Bodnar lag tester (at least for LCD's). Displaylag could also be using PC mode while rting is using Game.

 

[sladeums]

rting is using the cloned timer method which is generally less accurate than displaylag's Leo Bodnar lag tester (at least for LCD's). Displaylag could also be using PC mode while rting is using Game.

Displaylag says their table indicates when PC mode is used but they did not have that notation for this model.

Could be an oversight.
If not, I guess it could mean using PC mode would give even less lag possibly, since that seems to be the case with the rest of the Samsungs.

Just gives me pause when the scale looks to be somewhere between 'just ok' to 'the worst set we measured'.
Enough pause for the price to go up $100 bucks in the meantime, making it a moot point for now.
boooooo

 

[Lucid07]

Has anyone got any images of different colour gradients ti get the right blacks etc on my TV?

 

[Four Wude]

Displaylag says their table indicates when PC mode is used but they did not have that notation for this model.

Could be an oversight.
If not, I guess it could mean using PC mode would give even less lag possibly, since that seems to be the case with the rest of the Samsungs.

Just gives me pause when the scale looks to be somewhere between 'just ok' to 'the worst set we measured'.
Enough pause for the price to go up $100 bucks in the meantime, making it a moot point for now.
boooooo

The three measurements for the UN55FH6030 were as follows:

55.8ms, 57ms, 64ms

Averaging out all three of them equates to approximately 58.9ms, which is rounded up to 59ms in my database. The values returned in PC and game mode were identical. When this happens, I only list game mode because it allows the user to make more configurations to picture quality. I only specify (PC) if there is an actual difference between PC and game mode.

 

[Laughing Buddha]

I know this isn't that old of a message and I should wait, but I'm actually trying to make a purchase today if possible, otherwise since I'm going on vacation tomorrow it becomes difficult for me to make a purchase before the black friday sales expire. So if anyone happens to know the answers to this, it would really help me out!

Specifically, I'm concerned about the input lag on the F8500 and what it means that I have to use "PC" as the input type to get reduced input lag. What kind of differences I can expect with picture quality will be helpful as well.

The Panasonic S60 has the least amount of input lag and would be your best choice if gaming is a priority. Panasonic is getting out of the plasma tv business so I would snatch it up as quickly as possible.

Good luck
LB

 

[sladeums]

thanks for the clarification Four Wude

 

[cpp_is_king]

The Panasonic S60 has the least amount of input lag and would be your best choice if gaming is a priority. Panasonic is getting out of the plasma tv business so I would snatch it up as quickly as possible.

Good luck
LB

Well in PC mode Leo Bodnar measures 62ms, and supposedly this test is inaccurate for plasmas, so it's actually probably something like 40ms. This matches up more with what rtings gives, which is 37.5ms. I guess that should be fine, although it's annoying that I can't give my input a useful name.

I'm leaning towards the F8500 right now, particularly because of the insane Black Friday price drop, and the fact that its picture quality is comparable to a Panasonic ZT60 (and having 4 HDMIs is really nice), but if the input lag is unbearable I'll just return it.

Edit: Gah, now I'm having second thoughts again. Maybe I should scratch plasma entirely. The Sony 55" W900A is looking nice as well, and it's 40% off right now.

 

[rocksolidaudio]

So I've been skipping around in this thread and reading various other sites. I've seen the input lag examples and gifs and such, and I understand the science, BUT:

Has anyone with a ST60 actually had a first-hand poor experience with input lag? Or even any anecdotal tales? It seems like the only downside to the TV, but I can't seem to find anyone actually complaining about it. Like, not a single thing.

 

[lostinblue]

Has anyone with a ST60 actually had a first-hand poor experience with input lag? Or even any anecdotal tales? It seems like the only downside to the TV, but I can't seem to find anyone actually complaining about it. Like, not a single thing.

I know of people that didn't adapt well to it.

The fact they don't go around dissing the product doesn't mean input lag is not an issue on it, sadly.


It's noticeable, wether you can live with it or not is up to you. I suppose I really couldn't from the time I notice it. (I don't have one though, so I don't know wether I do or not)

 

[No Love]

Well in PC mode Leo Bodnar measures 62ms, and supposedly this test is inaccurate for plasmas, so it's actually probably something like 40ms. This matches up more with what rtings gives, which is 37.5ms. I guess that should be fine, although it's annoying that I can't give my input a useful name.

I'm leaning towards the F8500 right now, particularly because of the insane Black Friday price drop, and the fact that its picture quality is comparable to a Panasonic ZT60 (and having 4 HDMIs is really nice), but if the input lag is unbearable I'll just return it.

Edit: Gah, now I'm having second thoughts again. Maybe I should scratch plasma entirely. The Sony 55" W900A is looking nice as well, and it's 40% off right now.

Get a plasma, trust me. So much better than LCD for gaming.

 

[OverHeat]

Get a plasma, trust me. So much better than LCD for gaming.

No, I have a pioneer 5020fd and I played on my friend sony w900a and I would switch tv with him in a heart beat the response time and crispness off the picture beat my plasma.

 

[Chitown B]

No, I have a pioneer 5020fd and I played on my friend sony w900a and I would switch tv with him in a heart beat the response time and crispness off the picture beat my plasma.

it's very subjective. I have a Pio 5010 and my TV runs circles around all other panels I've every seen, especially if you have processing off as you should. Usually if a picture looks more "crisp" you're talking about sharpness or edge enhancement added, or even just different calibration.

also, that Sony came out in 2013. Your 5020 came out 5 years ago. Things do advance through the years. It's apple to oranges.

 

[OverHeat]

it's very subjective. I have a Pio 5010 and my TV runs circles around all other panels I've every seen, especially if you have processing off as you should. Usually if a picture looks more "crisp" you're talking about sharpness or edge enhancement added, or even just different calibration.

also, that Sony came out in 2013. Your 5020 came out 5 years ago. Things do advance through the years. It's apple to oranges.

0 sharpness on both panel it's the diffrence between both pixel structure that make the difference