Plasma, LCD, OLED, LED, best tv for next gen

Returned my ST60 because I see costco has the S64 and it has lower input lag and I wasn't impressed with the 3D on ST60.

Will most people even notice a difference in PQ?
 
just got home and startled fiddling with my new panasonic 60" s60 and good lord is it GLORIOUS! i'm taken back with just how good the picture, blacks, and colors are. and the reflectiveness is not a big deal (about what i'm used to with the old rear projection crt). forza 5 on this? jesus christ. i'm eating a bit of crow on not thinking 1080p content vs 720p is significant. whle i'm still not sure the power wouldnt be better spent elsewhere - forza 5 just fucking pops at 1080p. so much detail that was lost at 720p.
 
Any recommendations for a 1080p panel in the 32-40" range given my preferences in the following order of important:

1) Low input lag
2) Colors
3) Low blur
4) Viewing angles

This would be for a PC gaming panel. The Sony KDL-40R450A (or 32" variant) seems like it might be a good pick.
 
Canon said:
Returned my ST60 because I see costco has the S64 and it has lower input lag and I wasn't impressed with the 3D on ST60.

Will most people even notice a difference in PQ?
Click to expand...


Did you actually had a S64 in hand? Because they are extremely scarce... hope you got one. I'm happy with my own set.
 
lostinblue said:
Not true on the sets I owned (3 Panasonic's, at that) I can vouch for that.

And breaking a plasma-in has everything to do with IR, phosphor straight out of the factory is at the lack of a better term, very excitable and lazy; proper mileage will ensure it behaves properly; hence IR being a non-issue much more than it really is out of the box.


Mild IR retention is a bitch to clean on a new set; and 1 hour of exposure to static imagery then makes for stronger retention than 1 hour does now (no comparison, really); also, one can run 5 hours of scroll bar on it and see it diminishing but not completly gone just yet; here I don't even need to go scroll bar on it, change channel, blink... and it's just gone.


IR is a total no factor now, in this last set, after it hit roughly 500 hours of use sans-break-in; I was tracking it attentively and noticed night and day difference from the 400 to the 500 hour mark, of course that varies according to the use; via pixel jogger 200 hours probably achieve the same results or better.
Click to expand...

I'm at 500+ hours on my VT60 and IR is the same as when I first got it. Takes 2+ hours at least of a static high contrast image for me to start seeing it, and it goes away fairly quickly after normal full screen content watching.
I'm going by my own experience and what the ISF guys say on other forums.
 
Fox1304 said:
A few pics of my recently bought W1070.
The thing is lovely !
It's quite a bit too bright for a light-controlled room, si I bought a neutral density filter to calm it down a bit, does wonders.

Played some mario last night, the colors are impressive and the sharpness incredible for such a low price.

OF7MCKg.png
Click to expand...
Did you get a chance to upgrade the firmware? it took me 2 hours to upgrade since Benq/TI doesnt provide any support and I couldnt find anything until I finally stumbled upon a post in the 250 page avsforum thread.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1435626/b...y-with-lens-shift-for-1000/6480#post_23812799
Instructions
 
dallow_bg said:
I'm at 500+ hours on my VT60 and IR is the same as when I first got it. Takes 2+ hours at least of a static high contrast image for me to start seeing it, and it goes away fairly quickly after normal full screen content watching.
I'm going by my own experience and what the ISF guys say on other forums.
Click to expand...

Just under 200 hours on my ST60 and have not seen any IR. Playing a lot of AC4 with its static, bright HUDs has got me constantly looking but nary a hint.
 
not plannng to run slides for my plasma s60, just general use break-in and watching how much static images are on it for a while. that said, any settings or options to avoid till its broken in? i went into the options and turned off most of the processing stuff and fidgeted a bit with contrast, brightness, and sharpness. any advise?
 
mkenyon said:
Any recommendations for a 1080p panel in the 32-40" range given my preferences in the following order of important:

1) Low input lag
2) Colors
3) Low blur
4) Viewing angles

This would be for a PC gaming panel. The Sony KDL-40R450A (or 32" variant) seems like it might be a good pick.
Click to expand...

This is what you want. Unfortunately, you're stuck with 32" here in the US. Europe gets this in a 42"--hopefully we'll get something similar next year:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BTY9NPE/?tag=neogaf0e-20
 
Finally got my f6300 and like it so far but having a major problem. I have a HT-ct500 soundbar with built in receiver.

I went to use the SmartHub today to watch netflix but I cant get any of the sound to come out of the soundbar, it just continues to play the cable's audio.

Any ideas?
 
bucknuticus said:
Finally got my f6300 and like it so far but having a major problem. I have a HT-ct500 soundbar with built in receiver.

I went to use the SmartHub today to watch netflix but I cant get any of the sound to come out of the soundbar, it just continues to play the cable's audio.

Any ideas?
Click to expand...

how is your stuff hooked up?
 
b3b0p said:
Don't worry at all.

The half life the the plasma televisions are extremely high. Over the lifetime of the television it will go away.

People need to not worry about image retention / burn-in. Over the lifetime of the television it will fade out and you won't even notice it.
Click to expand...

Most people won't want to wait over the lifetime of the television for it to go away though. I've heard stories of people who made game UIs persist for months, if only as a faint shadow, before they went away.

Why the plasma manufacturers didn't just fucking burn the panels in at the factory before assembling the TV and shipping them out will never make sense to me. They could just start manufacturing of the next's years models a week earlier, and burn them in for a week at the factory. But no, they were too busy finding new ways to suicide the technology's reputation in the eyes of consumers I guess, which leads to the point we are at today with plasma now receiving it's last rites before it expires.

In unrelated news, I've got the FFXIV UI on my VT60 and I have to run the Pixel Jogger basically every night to make it fade. This is only slightly aggravating, I just want to know when the panel reaches it's inflection point and IR will just fade from normal use instead of bombarding it every fucking night. I"m not planning on quitting playing a game I like to play for a TV, so I'm stuck.

The image quality of plasmas is amazing but the tradeoffs are insane for gamers.
 
Unknown Soldier said:
Most people won't want to wait over the lifetime of the television for it to go away though. I've heard stories of people who made game UIs persist for months, if only as a faint shadow, before they went away.

Why the plasma manufacturers didn't just fucking burn the panels in at the factory before assembling the TV and shipping them out will never make sense to me. They could just start manufacturing of the next's years models a week earlier, and burn them in for a week at the factory. But no, they were too busy finding new ways to suicide the technology's reputation in the eyes of consumers I guess, which leads to the point we are at today with plasma now receiving it's last rites before it expires.

In unrelated news, I've got the FFXIV UI on my VT60 and I have to run the Pixel Jogger basically every night to make it fade. This is only slightly aggravating, I just want to know when the panel reaches it's inflection point and IR will just fade from normal use instead of bombarding it every fucking night. I"m not planning on quitting playing a game I like to play for a TV, so I'm stuck.

The image quality of plasmas is amazing but the tradeoffs are insane for gamers.
Click to expand...

Not fair US, you know full well this varies from set to set and isn't an indictment that can be used against the entirety of the tech.

I promise you my Sammy from 2012 has yet to exhibit any kind of kind of IR regardless how long I've played games on it (6 hours straight with L4D 2 just recently). Apparently the resistance to it is a by-product of it being 3D capable.

http://m.cnet.com/news/samsung-plasma-wins-cnets-accidental-burn-in-test/57449881
 
dallow_bg said:
I'm at 500+ hours on my VT60 and IR is the same as when I first got it. Takes 2+ hours at least of a static high contrast image for me to start seeing it, and it goes away fairly quickly after normal full screen content watching.
I'm going by my own experience and what the ISF guys say on other forums.
Click to expand...
My sets have been one prior to to the new nomenclature (10, 15, 20, 30, 50 and 60 series under X, U, S, G, V and Z monickers), one S10 plasma set (the cheaper G10 of it's time) and a X50.

And I have a 65VT60 on the way.

Anyway, good thing it behaves that way for you, but I think you're oversimplifying it, your panel was somehow broken-in in the first place (I dunno, my X50 had a motherboard problem at 500 operation hours, it worked fine but failed the checksum test. The repair reset my operating hours, the panel behaves as before, obviously - it's properly broken-in; it was properly broken-in while showing 1 hour of operation... lol) THAT or you're just lucky (or perhaps just rational in regards to contrast, settings, shuffling through content and the like). Persistent image retention is a thing as recently as 50 series providing initial bad use and like I said I know of a person that nuked his VT60 out of existence by heavily mistreating it during the break-in period; ironically by using the Dynamic mode non-stop with static imagery.

From my experience with Plasmas, the results he got aren't something that could happen on a VT60 outside of the break-in window (none of my sets is prone to doing that, so I doubt the VT60 is at all - providing the phosphor is mature enough); unless it was faulty... and I don't think it was (and I made sure he tried cleansing it for hundreds of hours, damage was done)
op_ivy said:
not plannng to run slides for my plasma s60, just general use break-in and watching how much static images are on it for a while. that said, any settings or options to avoid till its broken in? i went into the options and turned off most of the processing stuff and fidgeted a bit with contrast, brightness, and sharpness. any advise?
Click to expand...
Keep pixel orbiter on for the time being as a failsafe mechanism (in the case of retention it helps to make it more widespread; widespread meaning the stress/retention is being distributed over a big area due to subfield pixel shifting).

Don't use brightness over 50% (well, you can, but I recommend keeping it that way for some modes you're using; I myself tend to enforce that with SDTV viewing as one doesn't really care about it being a little dimmer, picture quality sucks anyway.

Sharpness should be always toned down to zero on any TV, and all more so on new plasma sets, basically for the same reason Pixel Orbiter is important, sharpness bumps the per pixel detail contrast a fair bit so it actually makes static logos and the like more defined, that's a bad thing as the retention will be more defined as well.

On top of that, it's really messing with the source image and introducing artifacts like ringing 99% of the time so I'd really get used to sharpness 0 on everything if I were you.
Unknown Soldier said:
In unrelated news, I've got the FFXIV UI on my VT60 and I have to run the Pixel Jogger basically every night to make it fade. This is only slightly aggravating, I just want to know when the panel reaches it's inflection point and IR will just fade from normal use instead of bombarding it every fucking night. I"m not planning on quitting playing a game I like to play for a TV, so I'm stuck.

The image quality of plasmas is amazing but the tradeoffs are insane for gamers.
Click to expand...
Thanks that falls in place perfectly well along with what I was stating... I felt I couldn't be crazy here. I don't even know how some dudes could be stating otherwise on so called "specialized-forums".

Thankfully it's just a phase, after the panel is properly broken-in it should be blink and it's gone, and it's very faint in the first place, compared to what, say, 2 hours... Initially meant in regards to visible IR and time to cleanse.
 
kinggroin said:
I promise you my Sammy from 2012 has yet to exhibit any kind of kind of IR regardless how long I've played games on it (6 hours straight with L4D 2 just recently). Apparently the resistance to it is a by-product of it being 3D capable.
Click to expand...
It's not due to 3D at all as even the cheapest, non-3D Sammy models are out-of-the-box immune to persistent IR/burn-in.

The secret should be in the panel's driver; it's probably taking a page out of how aggressive subfield dithering was on Pioneer Kuro sets (and by aggressive I mean totally epileptic) and how that actually helped with IR; stretch that driving method into even pure white and you're set.

That or they're doing something to either the phosphor or have their sets factory broken-in.


But judging from how the IR is so out-of-the-box inexistent even against my older Panny sets, I'd say the secret has to be either on the panel driving or phosphor.
 
lostinblue said:
I hadn't realized you purchased it and that omission seemed too strange to be true.

I double checked on the manuals... I was already taking your word for it, but was looking into the following: If that's the case then check wether or not the white and red RCA's from the component-out output sound when not being fed via analog means (ie: if they output good old stereo when using a hdmi source). I'm not counting on that because the manuals don't mention it, but you never know.

... But in the advent of that not being in the cards you'll need a toslink/SPDIF/digital audio out to analog converter; bare in mind that these are not the cheap adapters you see around ebay which are meant for plugging into 3.5 mm jacks that pass toslink through them (like with Macbooks and the like). In your case you have digital and you want analog so you need a properly energy fed converter.

They're not expensive by any means, but you'll have to go for a toslink to rca converter and then get an extra adapter/cable from male rca to female 3.5mm.

Really puzzling choice on Samsung's end.
Click to expand...

That sounds like more of a headache than it's worth. I've had the TV for a while now, but just noticed the omission of the port this week. Part of me feels stupid for not doing the research beforehand, but another part of me says that it's practically common sense that a $800 TV would have one.

Admittedly, audio setup is probably my weakest facet as far as tech goes, so I'm not really sure where to go from here. Honestly, I just browsed a couple articles on SPIF/digital audio than I was before. Does SPIF needs to be fed into a multimedia box which converts the signal to analog before it can be used? Speakers and other 'direct' audio devices can't be used with it unless it is streamed through some other device first?

I might invest in a soundbar or something, but my TV is right next to me and I live in an apartment so noise is a factor.

Thanks for the advice.
 
lostsupper said:
This is what you want. Unfortunately, you're stuck with 32" here in the US. Europe gets this in a 42"--hopefully we'll get something similar next year:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BTY9NPE/?tag=neogaf0e-20
Click to expand...

mkenyon said:
Is this the one with the pseudo lightboost functionality? Basically gives the smoothness of a 60Hz CRT?

I'm not too bothered by the size. It's likely only going to be about 2-3 feet from my face.
Click to expand...

This set is very interesting, and since I live in Japan I can actually get the 42" (for a decent price too, considering the prices can be pretty steep here)!

However I heard that there was no Motionflow settings and that it could induce pretty noticeable motion blur, especially visible on the 42" model. Do you know anything about that? Would it be that much of a problem?
 
Jubern said:
This set is very interesting, and since I live in Japan I can actually get the 42" (for a decent price too, considering the prices can be pretty steep here)!

However I heard that there was no Motionflow settings and that it could induce pretty noticeable motion blur, especially visible on the 42" model. Do you know anything about that? Would it be that much of a problem?
Click to expand...

The W6 series doesn't have motionflow - well, it has a mode called LED motion which strobes the backlight, but that dims the image a lot and for me it flickers like hell (apparently you get used to that - ymmv). Basically it's a standard 50/60hz panel and will have 300 lines of motion resolution like any non motionflow type panel. If you're happy with that, then the rest of the set is very good - decent blacks, low input lag.
 
Okay thanks. I still have a couple of months to decide to be honest, so there might be a better choice in the end... But right now this looks like the best bang for buck I'll get.
 
Is the R550A from Sony better (in blacks) than the w802a? CNET gave it a better review.

I'm just wondering since it seems like the w802a (and I've had 3 of them) have unusually blue-tinged blacks, and poor viewing angles. However, the store demo does not exhibit this. Could it be that the black levels are worse without proper lighting behind the TV?
 
After a day with my 1080p TV after upgrading from my 720p TV, you can absolutely tell the difference between 1080p and 720p. Native 1080p games have so much less aliasing!
 
Canon said:
Is the R550A from Sony better (in blacks) than the w802a? CNET gave it a better review.

I'm just wondering since it seems like the w802a (and I've had 3 of them) have unusually blue-tinged blacks, and poor viewing angles. However, the store demo does not exhibit this. Could it be that the black levels are worse without proper lighting behind the TV?
Click to expand...

Could be. I haven't see reviews of the R series, but the W8 doesn't have as good blacks as the W6 or W9. Screen type is different - think it's an IPS screen where the W6 is a VA panel

Edit:R470 seems to be an S-PVA panel with good blacks, see http://www.digitalversus.com/tv-television/sony-kdl-40r473-p16964/test.html#full-review
 
Unknown Soldier said:
Most people won't want to wait over the lifetime of the television for it to go away though. I've heard stories of people who made game UIs persist for months, if only as a faint shadow, before they went away.

Why the plasma manufacturers didn't just fucking burn the panels in at the factory before assembling the TV and shipping them out will never make sense to me. They could just start manufacturing of the next's years models a week earlier, and burn them in for a week at the factory. But no, they were too busy finding new ways to suicide the technology's reputation in the eyes of consumers I guess, which leads to the point we are at today with plasma now receiving it's last rites before it expires.

In unrelated news, I've got the FFXIV UI on my VT60 and I have to run the Pixel Jogger basically every night to make it fade. This is only slightly aggravating, I just want to know when the panel reaches it's inflection point and IR will just fade from normal use instead of bombarding it every fucking night. I"m not planning on quitting playing a game I like to play for a TV, so I'm stuck.

The image quality of plasmas is amazing but the tradeoffs are insane for gamers.
Click to expand...

Its why i bought a w9 to go along with my vt60, you simply cant beat the vt60 for pq but i just could relax while gaming to the point i said fuck this and bought the w9 to game on. I couldnt recommend a plasma if your are going to be gaming heavy on it. Heck i zoom in the scoreboards in sports on tv because i dont want to get ir.
 
Canon said:
Man that's crazy. What good is the w802a then if a lower priced unit outperforms it.
Click to expand...

only on black levels (although that then suggests lower contrast). It still has motionflow so better motion resolution, better viewing angles and, er, 3D?

agree though, feels like a bit of a hole in their lineup - the W6 is a great budget set, fantastic value for money (I just bought the 50W685 for £700 which for the UK is a good price), and then the W9 which is a great set but quite a bit more expensive. The W8 is a bit...eh
 
Jubern said:
This set is very interesting, and since I live in Japan I can actually get the 42" (for a decent price too, considering the prices can be pretty steep here)!

However I heard that there was no Motionflow settings and that it could induce pretty noticeable motion blur, especially visible on the 42" model. Do you know anything about that? Would it be that much of a problem?
Click to expand...

You want the 42" version of the W65 series as the 32" model does not have the same circuitry and the lag is slightly higher. I have the 42" UK model and it's been great so far. It's not 3D and has some Smart features but it has all the features i need for my kit and i'm very happy with it for the money.

I've not noticed any motionflow issues with tv or PS3 content and it's disabled with the Game setting on the PS4 hdmi input.
 
EdwardTivrusky said:
You want the 42" version of the W65 series as the 32" model does not have the same circuitry and the lag is slightly higher. I have the 42" UK model and it's been great so far. It's not 3D and has some Smart features but it has all the features i need for my kit and i'm very happy with it for the money.

I've not noticed any motionflow issues with tv or PS3 content and it's disabled with the Game setting on the PS4 hdmi input.
Click to expand...

Nice. I don't really care for 3D and since I live in Japan where smart features aren't that good to begin with (IMO), picture quality is pretty much all I care for. I'll keep watching...
 
madmackem said:
Its why i bought a w9 to go along with my vt60, you simply cant beat the vt60 for pq but i just could relax while gaming to the point i said fuck this and bought the w9 to game on. I couldnt recommend a plasma if your are going to be gaming heavy on it. Heck i zoom in the scoreboards in sports on tv because i dont want to get ir.
Click to expand...

Posts like this make me glad I opted for the W900A vs the VT60... VT60 seems like a fantastic set but it just didn't feel like it'd be the set for me based on what I wanted. Lots of good discussion on IR this page and the last though, that's for sure.
 
mrklaw said:
The W6 series doesn't have motionflow - well, it has a mode called LED motion which strobes the backlight, but that dims the image a lot and for me it flickers like hell (apparently you get used to that - ymmv). Basically it's a standard 50/60hz panel and will have 300 lines of motion resolution like any non motionflow type panel. If you're happy with that, then the rest of the set is very good - decent blacks, low input lag.
Click to expand...
That sounds like this motionflow impulse. Same thing? If so, very interesting.

Also:

TIP: Make sure you turn OFF the ambient light sensor to obtain a brighter picture during Sony Motionflow Impulse! This will prevent the TV from dimming the picture
Click to expand...
 
Unknown Soldier said:
The image quality of plasmas is amazing but the tradeoffs are insane for gamers.
Click to expand...

I have a 6 year old plasma which I game on for 4 hours a night, every night. I have zero gaming issues. So, I don't know what you're talking about.

madmackem said:
Its why i bought a w9 to go along with my vt60, you simply cant beat the vt60 for pq but i just could relax while gaming to the point i said fuck this and bought the w9 to game on. I couldnt recommend a plasma if your are going to be gaming heavy on it. Heck i zoom in the scoreboards in sports on tv because i dont want to get ir.
Click to expand...

This is seriously worrying about nothing.
 
Chitown B said:
I have a 6 year old plasma which I game on for 4 hours a night, every night. I have zero gaming issues. So, I don't know what you're talking about.



This is seriously worrying about nothing.
Click to expand...

Counterpoint: I had image retention on my ST50 after 15 minutes of a static HUD image. It went away after another 15 minutes of movie watching, but it's definitely an issue.
 
lostsupper said:
Counterpoint: I had image retention on my ST50 after 15 minutes of a static HUD image. It went away after another 15 minutes of movie watching, but it's definitely an issue.
Click to expand...

IR can happen, but IR is not burn in, and goes away. It's not permanent. That being said, I don't get IR on my Pioneer or Panasonic (ST30)
 
if only.

though honestly 4K OLED will be better eventually. I'll miss plasma, but I won't be buying another set for at least 5-6 years so it won't matter.
 
I was one of the new plasma guys, worried bout IR & burn in. Its been 2 weeks with my s60 and.....

The issues r overrated. Now I did run the slides wrong for about 50 hrs but this is what I've noticed. Playing ac4 & watching football,there r measures in place to prevent ir & burn in like

1) cutscenes
2) commercials

In both instances u have a static hud that's broken up every 25 minutes gaming & 7 minutes watching football. Not long enough to cause burn in. Add in pausing the game & flipping channels burn in isnt an issue for me n the slightest
 
CaesarDrew said:
I was one of the new plasma guys, worried bout IR & burn in. Its been 2 weeks with my s60 and.....
Click to expand...
This.

But of course, "we" plasma old timers are not TV sellers so it's up to anyone's choice; I've had people in the past sending me private messages (didn't happen on this forum) in the lines of "*insertnickname* is gonna buy a LCD, go there and tell him... STUFF!" why should I care? It's his choice and there are perfectly fine LCD's out there too.

IR really shouldn't be an issue unless the panel is defective, but there are rules - specially for new screens. These rules are simple and pretty much nuances of don't go apeshit on the brightness and avoid static images, but in the case you still fall into that kind of use here and there (because you want to enjoy your TV!)... well, just pay attention to it sparingly.

But in all my time of saying this on forums I've dealt with people that actually managed to damage their goods in ways I thought impossible; basically as if they were blind and abusing until the point the TV was done for; and only then they noticed. So it's really like this, using a Plasma is really simple and it's almost as if there are no rules to use it out of the box other than employing a little logic but one can't ever assume it's gonna be as obvious as it was for me (from the very first plasma I owned) and you.

Not meaning to sound obnoxious at all, it's just how it is.


Which is why if the plasma is for me I'll probably forego break-in all together but if it's for the living room (and I have a 65VT60 on the way) then it's a very different story even if I don't think anyone here at home could nuke one, I make sure everyone understands at least superficially their shit.


Congratulations on your purchase BTW, awesome bang for the buck, sadly not available in Europe. And you seem to be a good owner, you're breaking it via normal use like a champ.
 
EdwardTivrusky said:
You want the 42" version of the W65 series as the 32" model does not have the same circuitry and the lag is slightly higher. I have the 42" UK model and it's been great so far. It's not 3D and has some Smart features but it has all the features i need for my kit and i'm very happy with it for the money.

I've not noticed any motionflow issues with tv or PS3 content and it's disabled with the Game setting on the PS4 hdmi input.
Click to expand...

I just imported one of these to the U.S. I live in New York. It seems like the best gaming TV out right now so I just had to have it. It arrives tomorrow some I'm gonna break it in for a day or two then do some gaming on it.
 
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