Plasma, LCD, OLED, LED, best tv for next gen
- Thread starter spannicus
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Rex_Harrison
Banned
You do realize that a majority of the content available today is 1.85:1 or smaller right ? Not just TV shows and sports. Most animated films (ie Pixar, Dreamworks), almost every comedy movie, everything pre 1950's, more than half of all current movies.
I think the solution here is to get a projector.
lostinblue
Banned
Projectors are not ready for mass use, they're too far from the accepted TV archetype and always feel provisory (lots of cables, confusing operation for the use if they're rear placed, speakers not being standard), it always tacky providing you don't have a big ass auditorium.
The Rear Projected ones were the closest we got to cracking it, but died due to people valuing TV width a little too much; then there's regular projector albeit short throw that doesn't solve the aforementioned problems and... there's the Sony CES ultra short throw proposition, which is not different to how people hid sewing machines on tables, or radios and later TV's on furniture for the essential realization that they found them ugly and unrefined.
Only after "that" gets accepted at a fair price there might be consumer type people capable of going lower, ie, "screw the furniture attached I know what I want and it's this", kinda like how television brand furniture died off in recent years, detached projectors will always be cheaper, but Ultra Short Throw on a block has to be available at $3000 USD's tops... Keeping the actual specs.
It actually hits me as lack of vision, the whole projector market, they don't sell a lot hence they are not playing a race to the finish at all, they're keeping their absurd margins to justify "it", and it's possible to be aggressive on that, I mean:
Source: http://www.cepro.com/article/mitsubishi_touts_big_opportunities_in_rear_dlps/
73 fucking full hd with 3D inches for 1600 bucks back in 2011. Mitsubishi did it years ago with a more complex projector device than current ones... sure (mirrors et all), it wasn't the laservue model, and short throw currently is only going for laser and led projection but the problem is they put tech above specs, or rather the products are vehicles to tech not the opposite (and sometimes they'll fail to stand on their own foot for that), they'll go 720p before they ditch LED and go traditional, which would be fine for most. And they don't do "both" because they know, conventional lamp+full hd+short throw would nuke their led+hd ready+short throw out of the window. As it should.
I hope everyone starts their photocopiers on that Sony furniture concept fast, but they also need to get aggressive, some brand failing to deliver on OLED (although that's all of them) should really run with this now, because as of CES this year, curved oled screens are the shit, they took that from IMAX of course... projectors. Hence, which all that misplaced marketing someone could take notice and--- go all out.
Market needs it, getting stale.
Yes. But the wider films would get the extra wow effect they deserve. I'm not obsessed about any and all content filling out my entire screen at all times.
I realize that some (most?) people are fine with Jersey Shore giving them a bigger picture than The Lord of the Rings. But there's got to be a portion of mankind that disagrees.
Pixar is actually a cool example. In the early days of feature length animation, all animated movies were 1.85:1. Theatrical success set in, and Pixar realized that there's no reason why an animated film shouldn't be extra wide and offer audiences high caliber cinematography.
During the last 10 years, Pixar has made 9 movies. 6 of these are 2.35:1.
You say almost every comedy movie. I just looked up the 10 most successful live action comedy movies at the US box office of 2013:
The Heat: 2.35:1
We're the Millers: 2.35:1
Identity Thief: 2.39:1
Grown Ups 2: 1.85:1
Anchorman 2: 2.35:1
The Hangover Part III: 2.35:1
Jackass Presents: Bad Grandpa: 1.85:1
The Wolf of Wall Street: 2.35:1
This is the End: 2.35:1
Saving Mr. Banks: 2.35:1
Mattlikewhoa
Member
My next HT setup will have a 2.35:1 screen. I plan to watch movies on it more then anything else(I'd say 75% movies, 20% HDTV, and the 5% games) so (to me) it's worth it. To create the proper setup, it's going to cost you... A LOT. It's better now that more manufactures are including memory zoom features, but I plan to use a lens since I don't want to lose any brightness or lines.
That being said, I have to run a 130" screen in order to keep the 16:9 screen size (106") that I had in my last setup.
Wut?
That being said, I have to run a 130" screen in order to keep the 16:9 screen size (106") that I had in my last setup.
Wut?
Rex_Harrison
Banned
You're right. Most of the comedies I own on BluRay are 1.85:1. Same as Pixar movies. I tend to buy earlier movies, ( I find a lot of current movies to be rehashed crap ). But you're right, I was sort of talking out of my ass. However, you are in the minority as most people watch a shit ton more cable / sports than they watch movies, and would rather have their 4hrs a day of cable TV ( including Jersey Shore ) fill up their screen than the maybe 1 or 2 movies a week that may or may not be in CinemaScope. From my experiences dealing with 1,000's of people over the years, most people hate the framed black bars.
They have sold 2.35:1 TV's before but it's a very niche market. Vizio had one a couple years back.
I forgot to mention video games on consoles which I know for fact are almost exclusively 1.78:1 since last gen. Even smaller before ratio's before that.
Caayn
Member
Yeah no. Even in a cinema I don't like 2.35:1. It's simply too wide.
I really dislike it that game cinematics and even entire games(Beyond, The Order) are adopting the 2.35:1 ratio. Why give us a 2.35:1 game (cinematic) when practically no one has a 2.35:1 TV. For the sake of "artistic view"? Which I think of as bullshit, but that's my opinion. There's nothing "artistic" about displaying two gaint black bars on a screen.
nhlducks35
Member
What about 16:9 movies and TV shows? Instead of having the top and bottom cropped, you'll have the sides cropped instead.
lostinblue
Banned
They do feel tacky. Speakers and tuner are non-standard and while tv's hide cables on the back... They sport them proudly in an unfinished and unrefined package.
It's just lacking something, you don't point to it and say it's your TV, and the surrounding mess they create due to their poor cable organization outlet usually on the side or back feels like you move every week or arrived at a lanparty... That or that you must have fired the cleaning lady because cables attract dust and cleaning between so many, not located on a closet, not hidden and instead shown prominently and stuck into such a narrow place is not something you carefully do every other month. It's probably too honest, ends up feeling like poor execution.
They're inherently flawed for everything bar the situation you want to recreate a cinema at your place and have the space for it.
Unless you solve the problem, and that is going short throw and designing furniture to encompass it.
That post (the earlier one) read as if you had no experience with projectors at all (lots of cables?).
Projectors are great for medium and bigger rooms if you use external speakers already.
Not mass market as you said, of course not, but that's fine. They're not trying to be TVs at all.
EDIT: And the post above is kind of crazier, but still going with the idea that a projector should be a TV for some reason.
Projectors are great for medium and bigger rooms if you use external speakers already.
Not mass market as you said, of course not, but that's fine. They're not trying to be TVs at all.
EDIT: And the post above is kind of crazier, but still going with the idea that a projector should be a TV for some reason.
lostinblue
Banned
I do have experience with projectors, never owned one because as you can see I kinda dislike them "as is", as consumer products, but I have friends who own them, and the spaces for them to shine. I also plugged my laptop into such devices lots of times, be it for leisure or work related situations.
Anyway I understand the pro's, but I think the projector community sometimes doesn't understand or doesn't give a damn about the cons at all, then sometimes they wonder why their taste is considered niche. Not being mass marketable is a problem and that's all I'm focusing on, it needs to be solved and projectors have to feel like tv's that use projection rather than projectors that can project "tv" for that to happen.
Not everyone wants to do work on their living room just so they can drop a projector in, hence yes, unless you do it by building a AV division to hide it or bolt it onto the ceiling after doing extensive work to channel all those cables in a ninja way (and not lose quality in the process) it's not gonna feel solid...
These happen to be things regular people simply won't do, and hence, sometimes you get into a living room with a tackled-on projector where they placed the darn thing on the outskirts of the sofa and you get up in the middle of the film and get plastered across the room. It's not ready for consumer, but if you ask me... It should!
And yes, you can use external everything, I mean... Do you think I bought a VT60 to listen to it's speakers? But it has them. Having everything is very, very important, projectors are by comparison incomplete devices that cost a ton and in a ideal situation involve more home preparations than having a baby.
All that can be solved by making them short throw and concealing them... add speakers and a tuner just to spice up the deal.
It's painfully easy, but the manufacturers behave like snobs manufacturing apple devices for the living room (less is more TM) and people seem to defend them for that. (I know I'm being one sided here, but I want projector to be an alternative, not a niche product that I don't want)
I want all alternatives I can have, crt, plasma lcd, oled, rear projection, projection... But on a matured consumer level threshold. And I've felt for years now that projectors are being held back for no good reason.
I'll agree to disagree, but I really don't think I'm being crazy here.
lostinblue
Banned
I'm not saying projectors as they are need to come to an end (far from it, after people had owned the device I'm describing they could decide to do away with it and go old school projector, but at some point they'd know they want/need one and that the integrated solution didn't outweight whatever advantages the regular projector had, if that happened though the wall separating consumer from niche dude with a spacy room would be coming down a notch and all because said bridge product existed in the first place!)
What I'm saying is projectors are castaway products for a niche audience at this point (didn't feel that way in 2003, but it does now), and they could and should at least try and change that. For that they need it to feel and communicate like a TV set, yes. Call it trojan horse strategy if you will, because that's what do it is
Hey, I have "TV's" without tuners (not really tv's then), I don't really watch TV and mostly play on them... But I still want a "TV" and call it that from the moment I'm out on the market to buy something like that.
I think projectors can have a fighting stance and even competitive advantages but they need to change and encompass more consumer driven choice. It's all down to archetype, really. And the projector archetype is holding it back.
"Consumer's want TV's" so give them projectors that don't impose themselves like projectors and don't require 3 month's worth of bricolage work to not feel tacky.
It's all I'm saying, and it's a wish rather than raining down on any kind of parade. Had it been reasonably priced the ultra short throw Sony proposition would be my pick for the biggest breakthrough in TV tech this year, and know I would be lusting for it.
And I don't lust for projectors as I'm sure I managed to put across, that thing is a "TV", yes. (could lack a tuner and I'd still call it that)
Projectors are not "castaway" products. They've been thriving very well both tech wise and as an industry for years.
"Apple-like" products? "Less is more?"
There are so many models to choose from, various tiers in quality, and available with all the bells and whistles you could wish for. Competition between the many, many manufactures of projectors is a good thing.
This is much more than I can say for plasma tech while it walks out the door.
Sorry, these opinions are just bizarre to me.
And I don't even own a projector!
"Apple-like" products? "Less is more?"
There are so many models to choose from, various tiers in quality, and available with all the bells and whistles you could wish for. Competition between the many, many manufactures of projectors is a good thing.
This is much more than I can say for plasma tech while it walks out the door.
Sorry, these opinions are just bizarre to me.
And I don't even own a projector!
lostinblue
Banned
I agree to disagree.
Plasma tech is going out the door, yes, but it didn't have the issues I described the projectors as having.
Hence, the difference between having a plasma and a lcd, other than image quality and quirk related... Are null.
There are people with plasmas out there that wouldn't know unless you told them. And although that's not possible for projectors I wish that line was blurred on some products that can be had (I've praised the Sony CES solution, but I sure don't praise the $30.000 price), that's all.
I also don't think the projector product line is varied at all, specially if we're talking consumer.
Plasma tech is going out the door, yes, but it didn't have the issues I described the projectors as having.
Hence, the difference between having a plasma and a lcd, other than image quality and quirk related... Are null.
There are people with plasmas out there that wouldn't know unless you told them. And although that's not possible for projectors I wish that line was blurred on some products that can be had (I've praised the Sony CES solution, but I sure don't praise the $30.000 price), that's all.
I also don't think the projector product line is varied at all, specially if we're talking consumer.
Mattlikewhoa
Member
Could you expand on this a little bit for me? Last I checked, there were plenty of choices for people who were looking for a projector. It's actually crazy to think about the choices you have under $4000. It's a LOT better then it was even 5 years ago.
Rex_Harrison
Banned
Considering the fact that the average consumer buys sub $1K TV's, I think you answered your own question.
I'm no expert when it comes to projectors, I've been in thousands of customers houses over the years connecting A/V equipment and I've seen maybe seen 5 projectors. I'm guessing you can't really get a very good projector + screen + sound system for sub $1k or even sub $2k ?
I agree with LostInBlue, the fact that projectors require a lot more effort to make look right i.e. Distance, angle, type of screen, getting it hidden from view and/or installed properly not just sitting on a foldable TV tray on the side of your couch, and you almost have to have a room specifically built around it, it just turns the average consumer off. So instead they go to Best Buy and pick out the brightest Torch Mode LED TV, throw the box in their mini-vans, go home and set it up in 5 min, put it in Vivid mode, and they're happy as can be.
I'd estimate around 3500 to 4000 minimum for a decent projector + screen for a home cinema.
Mattlikewhoa
Member
Of course the market place is full of people who want cheap TV's. People still scoff at the notion that I spend more then $3000 on anything TV related when "there's soooo many cheap sets out there".
When discussing projectors, you have to have the space (that's a given) that's light controlled just to start. Then there's a ton of planning that should take place in order to get the most out of the setup (and space). It's not just plug and play. There's a real reason why I go to an actual HT store to take in my demos. I want the full experience (audio and visual).
I just don't follow his "cast away products" that he's lumped projectors into. I've read the post a few times, and I'll just say I disagree and we can move on...
And if we are just talking about visuals, you can get a 1080P setup running for less then $2K.
I'm a projector owner. Have been for 8 years now.
You can buy a low end, ultra portable gimmick model that'll let you play Halo on your closet wall for next to nothing, you can spend less than a G and get one that smokes most low and mid-tier LCDs that cost the same, and you can spend up to 3 grand and have something that makes you question if going to the movies is worth it.
In any event, work is ALWAYS involved. More so than any flat planel display. The kind of consumer that's willing to go through the effort to setup a semi-decent viewing situation to accommodate a projector is very small.
Price isn't the issue guys; it's not. Not at all. Work is.
And the guy above being completely disingenuous in regards to tacky or having what looks like a perpetual LAN party, needs to find neater friends.
When set up properly, you shouldn't see any more wires with a projector setup than you would with a flat panel one (and usually its the flat panel setups with the wirey mess).
You can buy a low end, ultra portable gimmick model that'll let you play Halo on your closet wall for next to nothing, you can spend less than a G and get one that smokes most low and mid-tier LCDs that cost the same, and you can spend up to 3 grand and have something that makes you question if going to the movies is worth it.
In any event, work is ALWAYS involved. More so than any flat planel display. The kind of consumer that's willing to go through the effort to setup a semi-decent viewing situation to accommodate a projector is very small.
Price isn't the issue guys; it's not. Not at all. Work is.
And the guy above being completely disingenuous in regards to tacky or having what looks like a perpetual LAN party, needs to find neater friends.
When set up properly, you shouldn't see any more wires with a projector setup than you would with a flat panel one (and usually its the flat panel setups with the wirey mess).
Hey guys, does anyone here recommend a Samsung UE55F6400 55" LED LCD TV?
I'm looking for a new tv and saw this one for just under 1000 euro (around my maximum price range). Can't find anything on input lag for this one.
EDIT: Found the Sony kdl-50w656 50" TV that's cheaper and by the looks of it has excellent input lagg performance? I read a few 653 reviews about the "jaw dropping" 17~ms input lagg! Does this apply to the 656 as well then?
I'm looking for a new tv and saw this one for just under 1000 euro (around my maximum price range). Can't find anything on input lag for this one.
EDIT: Found the Sony kdl-50w656 50" TV that's cheaper and by the looks of it has excellent input lagg performance? I read a few 653 reviews about the "jaw dropping" 17~ms input lagg! Does this apply to the 656 as well then?
polyh3dron
Banned
I just purchased a Panasonic 65VT60 from Value Electronics before they're gone for good. I'll be upgrading from my 2008 Sony KDL-52W4100 which still looks pretty damn good to me, but those grey-ish blacks in the dark always bugged me.
If anyone else is looking for a VT60 or ZT60 Plasma, Value Electronics still has some in stock. There will be nothing like it on the market again for years, at least until OLEDs become feasible.
If anyone else is looking for a VT60 or ZT60 Plasma, Value Electronics still has some in stock. There will be nothing like it on the market again for years, at least until OLEDs become feasible.
I think that by the time OLED becomes affordable, LED will have made some big steps too.
Colorwise my 55W905 is already pretty close to plasma. I expect that when FALD tv's become more common, the black levels will become a lot better too.
Even now the black levels for LED aren't that bad, only in a fully dark room it will be a bit more gray than plasma. But plasma has the same problem in a brightly lit room.
Colorwise my 55W905 is already pretty close to plasma. I expect that when FALD tv's become more common, the black levels will become a lot better too.
Even now the black levels for LED aren't that bad, only in a fully dark room it will be a bit more gray than plasma. But plasma has the same problem in a brightly lit room.
mitchman
Gold Member
Just had my first few rounds of BF4 on the new TV I bought last week, a Samsung UE65F9005. Glorious. Input lag was not really noticeable in calibrated Movie mode with all the fancy stuff turned off, but I expect I'll use the Game mode anyway.
Biggest problem was that the screen is so big it took an hour just to get used to everything being bigger (from my panasonic 50" plasma I used to have).
Biggest problem was that the screen is so big it took an hour just to get used to everything being bigger (from my panasonic 50" plasma I used to have).
AlimNassor
Banned
Anyone have calibration settings for Vizio E420i-B0? I can't find any settings...
mitchman
Gold Member
CNet usually offers pretty good settings for TVs. Not exactly what you asked for, but close enough I suspect: http://forums.cnet.com/7723-19410_102-584819/vizio-e420i-a1-picture-settings/
AlimNassor
Banned
Out of the box, it looks pretty good. No input lag at all, but, the colors are kinda bright. I guess I'll never find any calibration settings. Oh well.
mines a 2014 model.Different TVs...this kinda sucks because nobody has my model. I've searched around, and no reviews, no nothing. Nobody on avs has this model either.
mines a 2014 model.Different TVs...this kinda sucks because nobody has my model. I've searched around, and no reviews, no nothing. Nobody on avs has this model either.
polyh3dron
Banned
Get this: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0045ASBLG/?tag=neogaf0e-20
Also found this link which details how to access the service mode on Vizio TVs:
AlimNassor
Banned
Why do i want a.service mode
Not that it matters i got no blu ray player
Not that it matters i got no blu ray player
Prophet Steve
Member
Maybe there are additional settings for screen adjustment that you cannot get in the normal menu?
polyh3dron
Banned
You need to go into the service mode to calibrate your TV properly, using the blu-ray disc I gave you the link for as a guide.
You mean to tell me you post on GAF and don't have either a PS3, PS4 or XBOne?
AlimNassor
Banned
I don't have a PS3/4, nor an Xbone. Could I just buy an el cheap POS from best buy and return it once I'm done? Not that it matters as I don't know how to calibrate anything.
Unless you know exactly what you are doing, please DO NOT go into the service menu. It is very easy to select the wrong thing and completely fuck up your tv. This will also typically not be covered by your warranty, as you shouldn't be messing around in there in the first place.
More and more often, all the necessary controls for a calibration are available in the user menu, and there is no need to go into the service menu at all. If you happen to own a tv, where this is not the case, then just hire a professional calibrator. But since I believe AlimNassor mentioned it was a 2014 model I would guess user menu will be fine.
I have seen countless threads on AVS along the lines of "I went into the service menu and screwed up my tv. Help!" Just don't do it.
Edit: I took a look at the user manual for the Vizio E420i-B0 and it has all the needed controls to be able to do a full calibration in the user menu, including full CMS and both 2 pt and 11 pt white balance. Since you can't even use those controls without having a meter, either get yourself a disc like Disney WOW and adjust what you can or hire a professional calibrator. But there is ZERO reason for you to go into the service menu on that particular TV.
AlimNassor
Banned
How easy is it to calibrate on your own using the disc?
mitchman
Gold Member
You might be better off using the Movie setting for the time being (until it's more widespread and cnet or someone got some presets out), it's usually pretty good in new TVs, instead of attempting to calibrate yourself. For gaming, the Game preset is the way to go.
AlimNassor
Banned
So now that I have my TV up, it looks good. Zero input lag, and this is coming from someone who played only on CRTs, no real blur (i'm playing a fast motion game and see none). I guess it's true that LED TVs have terrible sound, because this TV's sound sucks. It's not so much I can't hear it, it's just it lacks any base. It feels flat. Will speakers make it sound better, like CRTs?
Maybe I have low standards? Seems pretty good to me. I can't wait to see how it looks calibrated. Honestly the new E-series all seem to have no input lag once so ever.
Well, gaming mode looks pretty good so far.
Maybe I have low standards? Seems pretty good to me. I can't wait to see how it looks calibrated. Honestly the new E-series all seem to have no input lag once so ever.
Well, gaming mode looks pretty good so far.
polyh3dron
Banned
If you follow the D-Nice calibration settings then you can't go wrong.
EDIT: oh, but he doesn't have any for that model, ok never mind.
I'm sitting here right now waiting for my Panasonic 65VT60 to be delivered.. So hyped.
Caayn
Member
I wouldn't blindly recommend using calibration settings from another person, after all every panel is different. I've tried using D-Nice settings, but it looks bad on my VT60.
In other news, I finally got rid of my FM5 IR
D-Nice's calibration settings have nothing to do with the service menu, which seemed to be what you were recommending.
Also, as Caayn points out, you really shouldn't be using someone else's settings and expecting to get similar results.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1055906/sharing-display-menu-settings
AlimNassor
Banned
How would I even hire a professional? Geek squad doesn't count because I don't trust them. Last time they fixed something of mine, everything broken.
I bought this in September: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BB5ZQAM/?tag=neogaf0e-20
Great picture once you fiddle with the picture settings a bit. I have the 42 inch version, but these TVs no longer seem to be available
Great picture once you fiddle with the picture settings a bit. I have the 42 inch version, but these TVs no longer seem to be available
Depending on where you are located, you can look here for THX Certified Calibrators
Or just look/post in here on AVS Forum
Rex_Harrison
Banned
Did you just ask if speakers will make your TV sound better ? Umm ......
Caayn
Member
Ok guys I need some help. Due to the need for more HDMI ports I'm in the market for a HDMI switch. But I've got no clue at what I need to pay attention to. I'm seeing some of them having 225mhz and others 250mhz, and some with deep color 12bit and others with deep color 36bit(all channels).
I want a simple HDMI switch with at least 4 inputs with no affect to the image quality and preferably no added latency. What is important and where do I need to pay attention to?
I want a simple HDMI switch with at least 4 inputs with no affect to the image quality and preferably no added latency. What is important and where do I need to pay attention to?
Might as well grab a cheap amplifier. Those have at least 4 inputs.
MilesWebber
Member
Yeah, I grapped a Onkyo receiver for cheap with 8 HDMI ports. I use it with direct pass-thought on all inputs. Surround sound and goodies are just an added bonus
I had one of these recently and it worked great! EXCEPT no 3D over HDMI through the reciever... so be warned of older models.
Im now using the Samsung 65" LED with the wireless soundbar/woofer. Can anyone recommend a good calibration option?
polyh3dron
Banned
Got the 65VT60 mounted last night and watched Hugo in 3D. Had to bring the PS3 out from the closet since neither the PS4 or XBOne support 3D and on top of that, my Onkyo TX-SR607 receiver is from like 2008 and doesn't support 3D either so I had to rework my setup considerably to accommodate..
Sweet Jesus. The picture quality is mindblowingly amazing even with stock THX settings. I seriously don't see how 4K can improve on this even with a screen this size with the relatively close viewing distance I have. The 24FPS setting was something I had to manually set for movies but that looked amazing too. 4K TVs will really have to knock my socks off by having some relatively cheap well-made OLED in like a 70" size before I ever consider upgrading from this. I seriously feel like this TV is the pinnacle of great picture quality. Those 4K LED sets look great in the showroom but there is no way they match the VT60 in a darker setting. I'm also impressed that it consumes less energy than the 52" Sony W4100 LCD I replaced.
The only knock I have on it is that the 3D isn't perfect. Every other LCD I've ever watched 3D content on had unbearable crosstalk. My 3D viewing experience on the VT60 was way better than any other 3D TV I've watched but the crosstalk still happened with the more drastic 3D moments like when the dog really pops out, etc. It really took me out of what was otherwise a top notch reference level viewing experience. Not that I'll be watching much 3D until I replace my receiver anyways, and I'd like to wait for the ones that support 4K/60hz for future proofing. The Onkyo TX-NR929 was tempting since it has enough inputs for every one of my consoles, but no HDMI 2.0 is a dealbreaker so I will hold off.
Overall though, I could not be happier with my purchase of this Panasonic 65VT60.
Sweet Jesus. The picture quality is mindblowingly amazing even with stock THX settings. I seriously don't see how 4K can improve on this even with a screen this size with the relatively close viewing distance I have. The 24FPS setting was something I had to manually set for movies but that looked amazing too. 4K TVs will really have to knock my socks off by having some relatively cheap well-made OLED in like a 70" size before I ever consider upgrading from this. I seriously feel like this TV is the pinnacle of great picture quality. Those 4K LED sets look great in the showroom but there is no way they match the VT60 in a darker setting. I'm also impressed that it consumes less energy than the 52" Sony W4100 LCD I replaced.
The only knock I have on it is that the 3D isn't perfect. Every other LCD I've ever watched 3D content on had unbearable crosstalk. My 3D viewing experience on the VT60 was way better than any other 3D TV I've watched but the crosstalk still happened with the more drastic 3D moments like when the dog really pops out, etc. It really took me out of what was otherwise a top notch reference level viewing experience. Not that I'll be watching much 3D until I replace my receiver anyways, and I'd like to wait for the ones that support 4K/60hz for future proofing. The Onkyo TX-NR929 was tempting since it has enough inputs for every one of my consoles, but no HDMI 2.0 is a dealbreaker so I will hold off.
Overall though, I could not be happier with my purchase of this Panasonic 65VT60.