KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
Disgusting. I hate all of this jingoistic and anti-immigration rhetoric.
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Poland reverses decision to take in refugees after Brussels terror attacks
- Thread starter Enter the Dragon Punch
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KonradLaw
Member
What mass attacks? And Poland is the safest country in Europe crime-wise. It's also the most homogenous one ethnically.It's not hard to convince ordinary citizens those two things have something in common. Even if in reality the huge boost in security is mostly because a lot of the most criminally minded poles moved to UK
I need to see a source for this because from own personal experience and statistics, this is not true at all.
KonradLaw
Member
Not to disparage Poland or anything, but in that source Poland is only the safest European country in terms of the assault rate. That statistic looks a bit wonky too - Poland is at 1.4 % and is sandwhiched between Japan at 1.37 % and the US at 1.5 %. These are all very different countries with little in common when it comes to crime, so I'm not sure if you can draw any conclusions from that. The best performer is apparently Canada, so at first glance it wouldn't appear that ethnicity matters that much.
The Polish homicide rate is also in the middle of the pack for that matter, the rate of the best performer (the UK) is three times lower.
This is what they want. The destabilization of Europe.
KonradLaw
Member
Well...realistically the more migrants you take the less stable will Europe be. So the closure of borders and stopping taking migrants is the best thing for stabilization of EUrope. What it might screw up is Europe's unity, altough even that will in long term will probably be strengthened by anti-migration, as it looks like almost whole EU united against Germany on that.
If the majority of these terror attacks are by native citizens, why let the innocent victims of persecution and war suffer? Just up your checks and standards, make the entry policies more stringent, but bring them in either way, at least the families, Eg father's and mothers with their children. I mean, it's a basic humanitarian duty. Are we really going to let the terrorists, paranoia and fear win?
So according to you we should do nothing, because doing 'anything' is a registered win for IS?
Don't you think that doing 'nothing' is a registered win as well because it demonstrates how indecisiveness caused by pride, lack of consensus and fear of changing in the wrong direction paralyses the entire European union?
Pretending these terrorist attacks don't affect Europe, when they clearly do, means you're just unwilling or too pride to accept reality. It reminds me of Monty Python and the Holy Grail black knight saying "'Tis but a flesh wound" with both his arms and leg cut off. These attacks are changing Europe, no matter what.
So, maybe we should just react accordingly and with a clear long term strategy without worrying who's winning this silly 'who's winning?' game.
Instead of blocking every proposition with 'but ... but ...that's exactly is what they want us to do!', maybe we should make up our mind what WE want for Europe instead of worrying what IS wants. What IS wants is pretty obvious, it's a caliphate.
Kenshin001
Member
How exactly did the terrorists win?
Klart
Member
Agreed.
Because thousands more innocent people are going to inadvertently suffer as a result of their actions?
Klart
Member
By Poland not accepting refugees. That's exactly what they want. Creating a world where it's muslims vs the rest.
The greatest pain/setback we've inflicted terrorists was Merkel's saying the refugees (mostly muslims) are welcome here.
Yeah, I'm sure those more than 100 assaulted and raped women and girls in Cologne are all thinking 'we sure showed them!'.
Merkel is getting lynched by her own citizens for all the chaos she brought upon Germany while right-wing extremist parties are laughing.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...a-merkel-afd-refugee-right-wing-a6929016.html
Sure, they want to create a world where it's muslims vs. the rest... But they also want to infiltrate European countries and implant terror cells. You'd have to be pretty naive to think they aren't preparing to attack Germany. When those attacks come, it will also inevitably foster a muslims vs. the rest mentality. So they get what they want either way, no?
Kenshin001
Member
They won't suffer. They will either stay in Turkey or go to another country. Poland wins because they won't have to deal with any threat to their citizens.
Kenshin001
Member
Actually what they want is a Caliphate that spreads over most of North Africa, South Asia, Southern and Eastern Europe.
M°°nblade;199183910 said:
Just shows screening should take place, dosent negate the plight of regugees, this is miniscule from the million already accepted (still bad and should be delt with on case by case basis).
Actually what they want is a Caliphate that spreads over most of North Africa, South Asia, Southern and Eastern Europe.
Who cares what they want, these refugees don't want thier Caliphate and want to be protected from them. Us pushing them into ISIS is a win for them and a display of hypocrisy of our rules. We will accept your refugee* only if your not Muslim.
True, however the vast majority are of non-European ethnicity which means their parents or grandparents were once immigrants or refugees.
By doing this you're basically reducing the risk of having terrorists entering the country now, and having homegrown terrorists in the future.
Extremism in Islam is to blame for this, not the government's looking after the best interests of their native citizens.
Poland's current government is being ridiculous and they know it. They're lucky the rest of the big Euro states are not looking for a confrontation right now.
I mean it's cool with me if you do not want to take on refugees but then we have to kick you out of the Union. You obviously do not share European values if you want to have your cake and eat it too.
I mean it's cool with me if you do not want to take on refugees but then we have to kick you out of the Union. You obviously do not share European values if you want to have your cake and eat it too.
KonradLaw
Member
Sure, but none of those people at EU's borders are actually refugees and considering they managed to travel this far shows they're healthy and wealthy (by their countries' standards), so they aren't the people that actually need a lot of help or are in any actual plight outside of the one they insist on inflicting on themselves.
Meanwhile people who actually need help are rotting in camps far away from EU, while Europe is wasting money helping people who don't need help.
Actually what they want is a Caliphate that spreads over most of North Africa, South Asia, Southern and Eastern Europe.
Yea, but only once they themselves control those areas, which obviously is never going to happen. They despise the vast majority of Muslims in the West, and feel by coming here they are being brainwashed and Westernised, and are no longer even proper Muslims. They're on record as saying they don't want more Muslims to go to live in the West, but instead the opposite.
FeelTheKick
Member
You are really naive if you think this will make them kick us out of the union
I love how you guys are always using the 'European values' rethoric when it suits you.I have nothing against Poland or polish people (they're awesome and super nice) and I do not think they will be kicked.You are really naive if you think this will make them kick us out of the union
My opinion just is that you are just being selfish if you do not want to do anything to help those people (either taking in refugees or setting up good refugee camps in Libanon etc). I personally would at least sanction countries for that kind of behavior.
Right now Poland is looking to be only a partner if it is good for Poland, which is an attitude which does not work in a union like the EU. You can't negotiate solution when countries have that attitude.
jakonovski
Member
To put it bluntly, the EU pays Poland money, gets racism in return. Kinda needs more than that.
Joel Was Right
Gold Member
Just an excuse to justify their racist position.
KonradLaw
Member
Well..to be honest. Poland actually does want to start helping outside EU in camps. It might be just a PR talk, but the society would support it.
Letting those people inside EU is really dumn and could be absolutely catastrophic both to EU as well as whole world in the long term. But at the same time closing borders shouldn't be used as excuse to ignore everything that's happening outside of them. There have been proposals for a new tax, like adding 1% for fuel or 0,5% on VAT, that would be collected in whole EU and used in camps in middle east and in longer prospects as investment in conflict-ridden/ultra poor areas. I think this is something we really need and it would also allow ever EU citizen to directly contibute to the cause.
That said, every country in EU is occasionally selfish. Just look at Germans pushing Nord Stream II which could completely screw over eastern Europe. Eastern European countries have for over a decade been behaving very nicely in the union. Accepting rectrictions despite others not always doing that, having to ignore some of really unfavorable actions of other countries etc. But sooner or later everyone in EU has a case where they will put their national interests over the interests of other EU countries and Eastern Europe has chosen this conflict as theirs.
FeelTheKick
Member
It also gets cheap labor market for western companies.
KonradLaw
Member
Yep. It also got huge markets ripe for takeovers, as well as army of skilled employees they didn't have to pay a dime to educate.
That's pure bs and you know it, it's nothing more but a deflection.
KonradLaw
Member
Maybe, but that deflection is bluffing. If EU would tomorrow decide that taking any migrants, including the ammount agreed last year, is fully voluntary, but instead EU is creating a fund for help in outside camps as well as creating a corps of EU-employeed helpers recruited from all the countries there's no way Poland's current goverment would be able to decline contributing money and people into this cause.
jakonovski
Member
They kind of did thanks to Schengen and the inability of the EU to work together. But now everyone is scrambling to make up reasons why not in their country.
KonradLaw
Member
Theoretically no, but they also had no right to walk into EU in the first place or avoid registrations or try to forcefully break through borders etc. In reality it's been pure shitstorm that nobody controls.
jakonovski
Member
This is true, but would've happened anyway. The point is that Poland should carry their share of the burden. Not that any other EU country wants to do it either, but this latest decision is so blatant.
KonradLaw
Member
No, it shouldn't carry the burden. Other countries screwed this up. There's no reason why Poland should join them in their misery.
Now, I do think Poland should accept couple thousand migrants in next couple years for temporary asylum untill the war in Syria is over, but only because the previous goverment agreed to it, so pacta sunt servanda. But that should be the end of it, as far as helping by taking in migrants. Outside from that Poland should just contribute financially, as well as with manpower to help guard the borders if necessary.
jakonovski
Member
Then I'm really struggling to see the point of that kind of EU. We can't give free rides to anyone who wants them. It's a fundamental issue.
I mean, Finland is now struggling because we're following the rules. Are we supposed to just go down and let all the Polands say thanks for the cash chump (I know it's really Germany that profits)?
I mean, Finland is now struggling because we're following the rules. Are we supposed to just go down and let all the Polands say thanks for the cash chump (I know it's really Germany that profits)?
I guess Finland doesn't have the messiah complex the entire right in Poland has.
Confrontation
Member
Guarantee the safety of your own people first, well done Poland. That's how it should be.
Mr. Giggles
Member
Truth right here.
I've seen this sentiment echoed recently around me and on GAF too.
Reminded me of our ex-president minister who tried to get re-elected by dividing the population. "old-stock" Vs "new-stock"
KonradLaw
Member
The point of EU is economical union, to boost economy, eliminate poverty and strenghten the world position of members of the union. That's the point of EU. It's not a suicide pact. At most member states can ask for help in solving their problems. They do not get the right to inflict those problems into their neighbours.
Kenshin001
Member
I agree, who cares what they want, which is why I question how they won. Europe should act in the interests of its citizens. Whether Muslims do or do not enter Europe because of what IS said has little bearing on Europeans. Europe certainly does not win by having a flood of refugees who do not fit in, become resentful and turn to jihad.
They are not being pushed into IS though, people should stop saying this. They are coming from Turkey, from Lebanon, from other Muslim countries where IS is not a significant factor. I think most of the Syrian refugees are Sunnis fleeing Assad.
At the risk of flaunting Godwin's Law, seems a bit off for me that a country who only 70 years back saw mass emigration due to the evil of men (336,000 Poles left) is being so vitriolic when it comes to letting people in who are fleeing similar conditions.
Europe talk lately just makes me sad in general. I feel like people forget the importance of a symbolic union between countries who in the last century have, numerous times, warred, committed genocide etc. against each other.
Europe talk lately just makes me sad in general. I feel like people forget the importance of a symbolic union between countries who in the last century have, numerous times, warred, committed genocide etc. against each other.
Dreams-Visions
Member
they might start doing just that.
jakonovski
Member
It's easy to quote generic goals, this refugee situation is when it gets real.
And LOL at suicide pact. We can't even get as far as a realistic assessment of the situation. The EU is done for, thanks to Europeans. We suck.
edit: I just randomly remembered that Poland was in fact part of the Iraq invasion. Way to shit things up and then let the rest of us clean it up, truly.
Klart
Member
M°°nblade;199183910 said:
Stick to facts, please.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...sex-attack-on-new-years-eve-are-a6874201.html
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