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[PhoenixDark]

The GOP needs to enter the 21st century, politically and culturally. They continue to operate on the assumption that this is and will forever be a center-right country. That is changing due to demographics and the younger generations - not to mention the decline of the baby boomer.

It often takes a strong leader to evolve his party, and sell voters on that change. Democrats lost countless presidential elections because they failed to recognize the FDR/LBJ eras of big government were long gone. It took Bill Clinton to move the party away from that by reforming Welfare among other things; he essentially moved the party to the center-right, away from the left, while advocating liberal policies when possible (such as his tax reform)...and they worked.

So while Clinton got the democrat party out of the ditch, Obama has managed to move it and much of the country to the left on multiple issues (gay marriage, taxes, etc); hell, he is more vocal about supporting abortion than any democrat I can think of in recent memory. He has also changed the entire perception of the democrat party on defense.

In short, the GOP needs a leader to get them out of this supply side neoconservative ditch first; it's clearly not Romney, whether he wins or loses. Until they can produce a candidate who differs from Bush on major issues, they'll continue failing. Hell, the party has outflanked Bush on the right tbh. I may not like the Bush tax cuts but they certainly helped middle and lower income families, and helped created the 47% Romney is so disgusted by. Romney wants to raise their taxes to give bigger tax cuts to the rich, something that would be inconceivable of the republican party just 5 years ago.

We'll get a sign that republicans are serious when we start seeing more who are open to tax increases - not on the poor, but on the rich and perhaps even the middle class. I don't think that will happen in 2016 (if Romney loses this year). 2016 could be the Goldwater/Dukakis moment that convinces the party it needs to change or else.

 

[Aaron Strife]

The GOP needs to enter the 21st century, politically and culturally. They continue to operate on the assumption that this is and will forever be a center-right country. That is changing due to demographics and the younger generations - not to mention the decline of the baby boomer.

It often takes a strong leader to evolve his party, and sell voters on that change. Democrats lost countless presidential elections because they failed to recognize the FDR/LBJ eras of big government were long gone. It took Bill Clinton to move the party away from that by reforming Welfare among other things; he essentially moved the party to the center-right, away from the left, while advocating liberal policies when possible (such as his tax reform)...and they worked.

So while Clinton got the democrat party out of the ditch, Obama has managed to move it and much of the country to the left on multiple issues (gay marriage, taxes, etc); hell, he is more vocal about supporting abortion than any democrat I can think of in recent memory. He has also changed the entire perception of the democrat party on defense.

In short, the GOP needs a leader to get them out of this supply side neoconservative ditch first; it's clearly not Romney, whether he wins or loses. Until they can produce a candidate who differs from Bush on major issues, they'll continue failing. Hell, the party has outflanked Bush on the right tbh. I may not like the Bush tax cuts but they certainly helped middle and lower income families, and helped created the 47% Romney is so disgusted by. Romney wants to raise their taxes to give bigger tax cuts to the rich, something that would be inconceivable of the republican party just 5 years ago.

We'll get a sign that republicans are serious when we start seeing more who are open to tax increases - not on the poor, but on the rich and perhaps even the middle class. I don't think that will happen in 2016 (if Romney loses this year). 2016 could be the Goldwater/Dukakis moment that convinces the party it needs to change or else.

I've said it many times before, but one more time can't hurt.

I believe Obama's biggest goal of his presidency is to recenter the debate in terms more beneficial for the center-left. Essentially, he wants to be the left's equivalent to Reagan - held to as a gold standard by Democrats, remembered fondly among independents, and even Republicans will begrudgingly admit he was a decent president. His consant comparisons to the man himself are pretty telling.

His major reforms don't go as far as many of us on the left would have hoped, but maybe that's only to butter up the mushy middle. Obamacare will be implemented and people will realize their healthcare costs haven't skyrocketed and government isn't rationing their treatment, and they might be more susceptible to something more universal. The expiration of all of the Bush tax cuts is presented as an extreme, allowing his preferred approach - letting the wealthy's tax rates revert to the Clinton years - occupy the middleground. He's also neutralized Republicans' biggest advantage, foreign policy. Essentially he's weaning America off of the right-wing bullshit conventional wisdom we've been fed for the past 30 years.

This is probably also why his administration is so disciplined - no real scandals, and any sign of trouble is immediately squashed. He knows the opportunity he has if his presidency is viewed as a success. In fact, there was a recent story claiming he's privately admitted his biggest fear of a Romney presidency is that he'd be able to take credit for the inevitable economic recovery, while appointing more conservative hacks to the Supreme Court and setting us back another hundred years. The flipside to that is that if we really do see 12 million jobs under Obama, he'll be heralded as the next FDR by the time his second term is up, and getting to replace Kennedy or Scalia would deliver a huge blow to Republicans' electoral chances in the future, if they weren't able to buy elections and candidates the way they do now.

I mean fuck, Obama's outraising Romney and the company he keeps isn't anywhere near as wealthy as in the Republican Party. Sure, there's a few big donors like Soros, Zuckerberg, Gates, and Buffett, but a huge majority of Obama's funds come from 5-10 dollar donations here and there. I'd have to imagine the disparity would be even larger without superPACs and shit on Romney's side.

 

[TacticalFox88]

The Dem who wins in 2016 needs to go full steam ahead towards progressing this country towards European standards. I have high-hopes for an Obama second term, but there still things that need to be taken care of before Dems can go full throttle and leave the GOP in the Dust.

 

[HylianTom]

If Obama gets to replace Kennedy, Thomas, or Scalia with a young, healthy, devoted liberal justice, I dare say that this would perhaps be one of his biggest achievements, if not the biggest one. I mean, Obama will be gone from office in 4.5 years - but the justices he appoints will likely still be on the bench for several decades longer. I'm 34 now, and his new appointees could very well still be sitting on the bench into my 60s or 70s. I giggle at the idea of nodding in agreement with a court ruling in 2045, while cheering at the TV, "Thank you, President Obama!"

To flip a seat or two, effectively creating a solid liberal majority on the bench.. that would be tremendous.

Even better, if we really do get to see filibuster reform, imagine how many lower court appointees he'd be able to finally put in place. As a law guy, this has to be pretty high up on his priorities list, as leaving such a huge mark on the judicial branch would pay incredible dividends as the years go by.

 

[AniHawk]

If Obama gets to replace Kennedy, Thomas, or Scalia with a young, healthy, devoted liberal justice, I dare say that this would perhaps be one of his biggest achievements, if not the biggest one. I mean, Obama will be gone from office in 4.5 years - but the justices he appoints will likely still be on the bench for several decades longer. I'm 34 now, and his new appointees could very well still be sitting on the bench into my 60s or 70s. I giggle at the idea of nodding in agreement with a court ruling in 2045, while cheering at the TV, "Thank you, President Obama!"

To flip a seat or two, effectively creating a solid liberal majority on the bench.. that would be tremendous.

Even better, if we really do get to see filibuster reform, imagine how many lower court appointees he'd be able to finally put in place. As a law guy, this has to be pretty high up on his priorities list, as leaving such a huge mark on the judicial branch would pay incredible dividends as the years go by.

i don't think thomas is going anywhere, and i don't think scalia will retire. he'd be 80 if obama leaves a second presidency, which is kinda up there, but he might just stick around until after the 2016 elections just to see what's going down. same with kennedy.

basically, obama will be able to have replaced three justices with some younger ones. maybe four if breyer takes off too. if obama has a second term and everything is coming up milhouse, then another democratic president could really make some changes.

 

[HyperionX]

i don't think thomas is going anywhere, and i don't think scalia will retire. he'd be 80 if obama leaves a second presidency, which is kinda up there, but he might just stick around until after the 2016 elections just to see what's going down. same with kennedy.

basically, obama will be able to have replaced three justices with some younger ones. maybe four if breyer takes off too. if obama has a second term and everything is coming up milhouse, then another democratic president could really make some changes.

In that case, it would really be the the guy elected 2016 who might have more of an impact here. Certainly, the older right wing bloc can't hold out all the way till 2020. Even more so if Dems can hold the WH till 2024.

 

[Hitokage]

Even more so if Dems can hold the WH till 2024.

Somehow I refuse to think this is in any way likely. Even if the GOP craters I still think that's more than enough time for SOMETHING to happen.

 

[Rocket Scientist]

Why is Asian turnout so low? Seems counter intuitive given the stereotypes etc.

Couldn't find the link to the actual article, but it might have been in this thread before.

 

[TacticalFox88]

If Obama's second term gets what needs to be done and the 2016 Dem does very well at expanding on what Obama already accomplished, 2024 isn't that unreasonable at all.

 

[Hitokage]

If Obama's second term gets what needs to be done and the 2016 Dem does very well at expanding on what Obama already accomplished, 2024 isn't that unreasonable at all.

Like if Hillary runs and wins in 2016, she may end up serving only one term due to health. 2020 is left more vulnerable as a result.

Something like that. Eight years is almost an eternity in politics.

 

[The Librarian]

Why is Asian turnout so low? Seems counter intuitive given the stereotypes etc.

Couldn't find the link to the actual article, but it might have been in this thread before.

Oh no. A race doesn't match its stereotype. The horror!

@Forever: Good read.

 

[Rocket Scientist]

Oh no. A race doesn't match its stereotype. The horror!

It's a horror alright, but not because of that. 34% is depressingly and criminally low.

 

[AniHawk]

Somehow I refuse to think this is in any way likely. Even if the GOP craters I still think that's more than enough time for SOMETHING to happen.

well you would have to assume two popular democratic presidents during that time. it's not totally farfetched. incumbents are hard to replace, and if obama had a second term, and was followed by a person who wasn't a dumbass, it's not hard to see how they could secure 16 years of the white house.

especially if texas becomes competitive in that time.

 

[Basileus777]

Demographics changes will give the Democrats a strong advantage in the electoral math for the near future and they have a heavy weight candidate (Hillary) waiting in the wings. The Dems holding the Presidency for another two terms after Obama isn't that far-fetched.

 

[dramatis]

Why is Asian turnout so low? Seems counter intuitive given the stereotypes etc.

Couldn't find the link to the actual article, but it might have been in this thread before.

I wasn't aware there was a stereotype for Asians regarding voting.

I can only speak about the Chinese, but most of them prefer working to voting. Absentee ballots are probably things most of them don't know about, and even if they knew they might not care. The younger generation is probably even more geared towards money than the older one, mostly because the older one drills about money all the time. They don't care about politics.

Ideology-wise the younger generation would probably skew Democrat, but a lot of older Chinese are pretty conservative. If they vote, however, they'll vote Democrat because they think the Republicans are worse and are aware that the Republicans take away a lot of the stuff they (the Chinese) benefit from.

 

[Timedog]

This is crazy horse but what if the GOP, instead of changing or dying because of demographic shifts, simply helps another left party become prominent enough that they stay relevant? Start mentioning some Green party candidate almost as much as the Democrats when speaking to the press. Have Fox News show Green party press conferences and primaries/debates (if there is such a thing) alongside the main two parties, and claiming that the other networks aren't truly "fair and balanced". Basically giving free advertisement and the illusion of legitimacy to another party in order to split the vote to whatever small degree would keep them relevant in their current incarnation. Could anything like that ever work?

 

[mckmas8808]

Also I happened to catch an episode of Hanity tonight.

Is he normally this anti-muslim? I mean it was disgusting, the entire episode was how muslims suck and how Obama is selling us out to them and going to kill all the jews (Israel).

That and he's pissed about "Piss Christ" while at the same time saying Obama is undermining the 1st amendment with the pakistani ads.

This is something that I've never understood with the Muslim movie thing. Why are conservatives so mad when someone talks down this movie by saying that they don't approve of it's message?

How does that limit free speech? Don't we also have the freedom to express our dislike of the movie and it's message?

 

[Basileus777]

This is something that I've never understood with the Muslim movie thing. Why are conservatives so mad when someone talks down this movie by saying that they don't approve of it's message?

How does that limit free speech? Don't we also have the freedom to express our dislike of the movie and it's message?

You're talking about a group that will hate anything just because Obama supports or does it, it isn't a product of rational thinking.

 

[The Librarian]

Just finished reading Ezra Klein's take Mitten's tax returns, and I got really angry at this part:

That money, of course, all came from investments. But Romney didn’t even manage those investments. Someone else took charge of the decisions. Romney basically made $14 million in 2011 — putting him way, way above the top 1 percent, which starts at around $350,000 a year — because Romney was very rich in 2010, too. That’s the nice thing bout being rich: It makes you richer.

Compare Romney to a single mother of two who works full-time at Wal-Mart, who takes the Earned Income Tax Credit and whose children get health insurance through Medicaid. Romney says she’s not taking personal responsibility. He says he couldn’t get her to take personal responsibility if he tried. And yet, Romney is someone who doesn’t even have to take personal responsibility for earning money anymore. He’s beyond all that.

The dude sits on his butt all day (doing nothing) and makes millions off his investments – investments he doesn't even handle – then behind closed doors denounces 47% of Americans for not being able to take responsibility in their lives and being dependent upon government, seeing themselves as victims.

Yeah, fuck you, Mitt.

 

[mckmas8808]

I've just been introduced to this S.E. Cupp chick on MSNBC lately. But I don't get this lady. In the click below you'll see her get upset that the people on the panel are pointing out a solid point about Mitt Romney disqualifying himself from the Presidency because he paid more taxes than he needed to.

Mitt created this whole thing and now he looks foolish. So my question is, WTF is this SE Cupp chick up to? What's her story? Sometimes she seems to be a knowledgeable conservative, but then in clips like this I find myself wondering why is she even defending Romney. Like what's the point?


http://www.mediaite.com/tv/s-e-cupp...k-and-dismiss-romneys-release-of-tax-returns/

 

[FleckSplat]

I've just been introduced to this S.E. Cupp chick on MSNBC lately. But I don't get this lady. In the click below you'll see her get upset that the people on the panel are pointing out a solid point about Mitt Romney disqualifying himself from the Presidency because he paid more taxes than he needed to.

Mitt created this whole thing and now he looks foolish. So my question is, WTF is this SE Cupp chick up to? What's her story? Sometimes she seems to be a knowledgeable conservative, but then in clips like this I find myself wondering why is she even defending Romney. Like what's the point?


http://www.mediaite.com/tv/s-e-cupp...k-and-dismiss-romneys-release-of-tax-returns/

Is her first name Sip?

 

[Dr. Pangloss]

Like if Hillary runs and wins in 2016, she may end up serving only one term due to health. 2020 is left more vulnerable as a result.

Something like that. Eight years is almost an eternity in politics.

You're missing a far more likely event, another recession. I'm sure there is ample time in the next 12 years for America to enter the bust phase of the business cycle. That alone will ensure that they do not hold the presidency till 2024.

Just finished reading Ezra Klein's take Mitten's tax returns, and I got really angry at this part:


The dude sits on but all day (doing nothing) and makes millions off his investments – investments he doesn't even handle – then behind closed doors denounces 47% of Americans for not being able to take responsibility in their lives and being dependent upon government, seeing themselves as victims.

Yeah, fuck you, Mitt.

We call that sleeping money. My uncle is in the oil business, and we would make fun of him by saying, "We don't make money while we sleep." We also use mailbox money because a check just shows up in his mailbox.

 

[jbug617]

New Obama ad on tv about Mitt's taxes.

 

[Kosmo]

Oh no. A race doesn't match its stereotype. The horror!

@Forever: Good read.

How have Blacks 18-24 fared with Obama in office?

 

[Cloudy]

The NY Times pay wall is ridiculously easy to step over.


www.nytimes.com/2012/09/22/us/politics/under-pressure-romney-offers-more-tax-data.html?_r=0&gwh=530028FE5E7711B6C56E28E57AD3B6BA

All you have to do is delete the junk after .html in the address bar, hit enter, and you're in.


www.nytimes.com/2012/09/22/us/politics/under-pressure-romney-offers-more-tax-data.html

Heh. I'd just been googling the article subject and reading them that way. These guys are ridiculous to be doing a paywall though. Don't leave a vacuum for Fox and others to fill with their propaganda. The whole idea of for-profit news is DUMB

 

[Rocket Scientist]

I wasn't aware there was a stereotype for Asians regarding voting.

Well, I just meant the stereotype that Asians parents expect more from their children when it comes to higher education and things like that. My instinct would be to think that a group like that would be much more involved in politics. It would have been better had I left out he stereotype remark, because it's rather distracting and irrelevant. If I had a time machine! It was just surprising to see such a big difference in such a young age group.

 

[Jadedx]

How have Blacks 18-24 fared with Obama in office?

I'm doing great.

 

[RDreamer]

Supposed to see the President today in Milwaukee. Not sure what's going to happen, though, since it seems like it'll be raining all day and this is an outdoor venue. hmm

 

[Rocket Scientist]

Supposed to see the President today in Milwaukee. Not sure what's going to happen, though, since it seems like it'll be raining all day and this is an outdoor venue. hmm

Prepare for the epicness!

 

[mckmas8808]

How have Blacks 18-24 fared with Obama in office?

Better than if McCain took office.

 

[Narpas Sword0]

How have Blacks 18-24 fared with Obama in office?

They have health insurance

 

[RustyNails]

Prepare for the epicness!

Rombot v2.0 will just get fried in rain

 

[Y2Kev]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJJKW7ea1oc&feature=player_detailpage

omg

 

[Basileus777]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJJKW7ea1oc&feature=player_detailpage

omg

Thank you for posting that. Haha.

 

[Rocket Scientist]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/22/opinion/voter-harassment-circa-2012.html?_r=0

In an ostensible hunt for voter fraud, a Tea Party group, True the Vote, descends on a largely minority precinct and combs the registration records for the slightest misspelling or address error. It uses this information to challenge voters at the polls, and though almost every challenge is baseless, the arguments and delays frustrate those in line and reduce turnout.

On the day of the recall election of Gov. Scott Walker of Wisconsin, the group used inaccurate lists to slow down student voting at Lawrence University in Appleton with intrusive identity checks. Three election “observers,” including one from True the Vote, were so disruptive that a clerk gave them two warnings, but the ploy was effective: many students gave up waiting in line and didn’t vote.

True the Vote, now active in 30 states, hopes to train hundreds of thousands of poll watchers

Disgusting.

 

[Cloudy]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/22/opinion/voter-harassment-circa-2012.html?_r=0

Disgusting.

In a presidential election year, the Dems will have their own lawyers out there to fight this crap

 

[mckmas8808]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/22/opinion/voter-harassment-circa-2012.html?_r=0




Disgusting.

Fuck these people man. Unfortunately there isn't any PSA on looking for these people and avoiding them or not letting them stop you from voting.

And shouldn't this be illegal?

 

[Frank the Great]

anyone know where i can find good polls of local congressional races?

i live in a very conservative part of NJ and a local democrat is trying to unseat my congressman. according to his campaign's messaging the polls show a tight race and i would like to help them out but i suspect that they, like the national GOP is doing with the presidential race, are pretending the race is closer than it is. i'd rather not waste my limited time or extremely short funds if he does not have a prayer.

 

[Loudninja]

Romney campaign trails in crucial ground game

The Obama campaign's dominance of the ground game — the volunteer-driven nuts and bolts of electioneering that ranges from registration drives to door-to-door canvassing — contributed mightily to his 2008 victory. His campaign is banking on its advantage on the ground, assisted by a new array of digital innovations, to deliver victory once again.

"Our massive grassroots organization will make the difference on Nov. 6," Obama campaign spokesman Adam Fetcher said.

There are no independently verified numbers documenting how the campaigns are doing on the ground, but a discrepancy can be found in the internal data each side promotes.

The RNC released a memo last week boasting it has made 20 million voter contacts — phone calls and face-to-face conversations. At the Democratic National Convention this month, Obama campaign manager Jim Messina told the crowd the re-election campaign had, to date, made 44 million phone calls alone.

The Democratic campaign boasts nearly three times as many offices in eight swing states.

In Colorado, the Obama campaign has 55 offices to the Romney organization's 14. In Iowa, it lists 65 compared with 14 for the Republican candidate. In Nevada, the margin is narrower, 25-11, with the Romney campaign scheduled to open a new office this weekend. Nonetheless, this state, where Democrats have dominated on the ground for eight years, sharply illustrates the imbalance.

Obama operatives launched their most recent voter registration drive here in April 2011. The Romney campaign at that time was battling to win the Republican primary and didn't start its own drive until July. As a sign of the Obama campaign's lead, Democrats have a 61,000-voter edge over Republicans in registration, according to the Nevada secretary of state's office.

http://news.yahoo.com/romney-campaign-trails-crucial-ground-game-121307959--election.html

 

[ari]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJJKW7ea1oc&feature=player_detailpage

omg

How, how is this race so close?

 

[Cloudy]

anyone know where i can find good polls of local congressional races?

http://www.electionprojection.com/2012elections/house12.php

 

[Kai Dracon]

Just a fucking minute, how can this Tea Party voter checking thing be remotely legal? How can they stop people and harass them so they can't go in and vote?

How the fuck is this not good old fashioned robber baron goon squad thuggery?

 

[Black Republican]

Romney campaign trails in crucial ground game



http://news.yahoo.com/romney-campaign-trails-crucial-ground-game-121307959--election.html

not surprised about Nevada, i mean Reid managed to keep his seat in 2010 for christs sake

 

[Loudninja]

This is something I notice abotu Romney.

For Romney, another day, another donor event

LAS VEGAS (Reuters) - Under fire from fellow Republicans to be more visible in swing states to help his shaky campaign, Mitt Romney will have to pull himself away from a major drag on his time: fundraising events.

Presidential hopeful Romney's new strategy to sometimes hold three campaign events a day in the key states that will likely decide the November 6 election has yet to kick in.

Instead, on Friday he flew across the country to hold just one rally in Las Vegas, but also to attend a fundraiser with wealthy donors at the Red Rock Casino Resort and another one near San Francisco.

He then flew to his other donor event, at a historic mansion in Hillsborough, a wealthy community outside of San Francisco. Among those in attendance was George Shultz, U.S. Secretary of State under President Ronald Reagan.

Romney, who lags narrowly in national polls but by notable margins in battleground states such as Ohio, has mostly stayed away from big swing-state campaign events in the past week.

He has spent time raising money in California, a sure Democratic win in November, and Texas, which is safely Republican. He also visited Georgia and Utah, both Republican-leaning red states, for fundraisers.

"Romney doesn't seem to be out there campaigning enough," Peggy Noonan, former speechwriter for Reagan, wrote in The Wall Street Journal.

The former Massachusetts governor seems "always be disappearing into fundraisers and not having enough big public events."

http://news.yahoo.com/romney-another-day-another-donor-event-070500876.html

 

[CHEEZMO™]

Just a fucking minute, how can this Tea Party voter checking thing be remotely legal? How can they stop people and harass them so they can't go in and vote?

How the fuck is this not good old fashioned robber baron goon squad thuggery?

B-b-b-but scary black people standing outside a polling station!!1

 

[norinrad]

This is a good ad

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0WmdCjHF1I&feature=relmfu

 

[NathanMcMahon]

B-b-b-but scary black people standing outside a polling station!!1

here, you need this:

beat you to it Kosmo.

 

[canvee]

Lol has this been posted?

Wayne Swan (Australian Treasurer): "Let's be blunt and acknowledge the biggest threat to the world's biggest economy are the cranks and crazies that have taken over the Republican Party."

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/business/chinas-economy-like-bolt-swan/story-e6frede3-1226478493567

 

[sangreal]

not surprised about Nevada, i mean Reid managed to keep his seat in 2010 for christs sake

Well, it helped that the Republican nominee was batshit crazy

 

[Cheebo]

This is a good ad

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0WmdCjHF1I&feature=relmfu

It won't air on tv or anything, just a web video for their youtube account.