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PoliGAF 2012 |OT3| If it's not a legitimate OT the mods have ways to shut it down

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Z

Zzoram

Member
Even if Romney completely crashes and burns during the debates, I can't see hardcore GOP base voters not voting for him anyways just to spite Obama.
 
F

Forever

Banned
Zzoram said:
Even if Romney completely crashes and burns during the debates, I can't see hardcore GOP base voters not voting for him anyways just to spite Obama.
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As long as we win the electoral college, even by a single point, I'll be happy.

Obama knows he's ahead, so I doubt that he'll be aggressive in the debate. He doesn't have to win, all he has to do is not lose.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
PhoenixDark said:
But he said the same stuff four years ago - why should anyone believe it's going to magically happen this time? Was a bill that ended tax breaks for companies that ship jobs overseas ever brought up in the senate? I'd imagine it's something Pelosi might have passed in the house, knowing it would never pass in the senate nor would Obama support a losing fight.
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A lot of what he talked about is already policy on the way (the fuel economy standards are actually current policy, which the auto industry is marching toward) or specific bills he's put on the table (such his jobs bill and other tax proposals).

Not sure what else he can do other than to say, here's my proposals and what I will try to get Congress to pass in a second term. Which is pretty much what that ad is.
 
Z

Zzoram

Member
Forever said:
As long as we win the electoral college, even by a single point, I'll be happy.

Obama knows he's ahead, so I doubt that he'll be aggressive in the debate. He doesn't have to win, all he has to do is not lose.
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What I meant was that even if Romney bombs the debates, the GOP will hold onto the House because their voters aren't voting for Romney, they're voting against socialist Muslims.
 
G

Gotchaye

Member
I don't think the Senate can originate a bill to end tax breaks. And a substantial part of the 2009 stimulus was used to shore up state budget deficits, intended in large part to allow them to avoid laying off teachers and the like. He's already put forth tax proposals and the fuel efficiency thing, as Ghaleon says above.

So, what should he be talking about now? He's talking about what he would like to accomplish. He's not guaranteeing that it will get done, but talking about wanting to do things and then winning elections is how you get a mandate for doing those things. Should he be campaigning on "Republican obstructionism will probably prevent me from doing anything"?

And what should he have done? Should he have fought hard for bills that had no chance of getting 60 votes in the Senate, accomplishing nothing and spending political capital? You're attacking him as unwilling to fight doomed battles, but in politics a lost fight is almost always worse for a cause than no fight at all. Now, I do think that Obama took too long to figure out what kind of game the Republicans were playing and how to counter it. We could have had better health care reform had he figured that out sooner. But even after that he was only ever going to be able to pass what Ben Nelson wanted to pass.

I think it's perfectly reasonable for a politician to put forth his positions and, if elected, to try to enact the ones that have a reasonable shot of making it through the process. The politician can keep talking about the ones that don't have a shot at making it through the process with an eye towards persuading the electorate to elect other politicians with the same position so that the process changes.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
GhaleonEB said:
A lot of what he talked about is already policy on the way (the fuel economy standards are actually current policy, which the auto industry is marching toward) or specific bills he's put on the table (such his jobs bill and other tax proposals).

Not sure what else he can do other than to say, here's my proposals and what I will try to get Congress to pass in a second term. Which is pretty much what that ad is.
Click to expand...

I'm not contending his energy policies - a lot of which he hasn't had to deal with congress on, thankfully.

Ultimately you're right, a president can only tell you what his proposals are and try to get congress to come along. I'm just wondering why voters should believe that will happen, given the last four years; not just due to obstruction but due to Obama's inability to operate within that world, as Woodward's book and others have shown.

A better republican candidate would make this a focus, and actually have detailed plans to compete with Obama's. I'd love to see Obama run against Ryan for instance. And not because Ryan is "smart" but simply because Ryan isn't afraid to put his plans on the table. He basically has said "here's how I end Medicare, take a look." I'd rather see that type of opponent - even one that lies and distorts his own plan, as Ryan does - than someone who can't do anything but put bullet points on a single piece of paper (Romney)
 
R

ryutaro's mama

Member
Cloudy said:
You guys are too over-confident. With all the voter suppression going on, the polls don't mean everything
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Kobe is the greatest player of our time for him to have won 2 chips with you fully rooting FOR him.

How did he beat those odds?

You must have REALLY been rooting for him with all your might in 2008 tho. :/
 
Dominican Power

Dominican Power

Member
Vahagn said:
The Right's bashing of MSNBC is seriously so god damn ironic. It's like the Left finally figured out what the Right was doing, and copied it, and the Right is determined to tear it down because it realizes how dangerous it is.


When the only options were Total Right Wing Propaganda and Center based CNN, they drove the narrative because Jon Stewart was the only guy counter programming an entire network.



Now there's another network that basically fights 24/7 to refute or fact check, or counter, or flat out insult every single position that Fox takes on any issue that they're losing their foothold.


While it's making our country more partisan, it's also making Fox News less powerful I would argue and as a result, it's a good thing.


As for CNN, their problem is, in an effort to be truly fair and biased, they are too scared to call out real BS from either side, so they just seem soft.


As for the hyper partisanship, while I think the media is partly to blame, I look at what happened in this country in the south after the end of the civil war and a few years of Reconstruction. By the early 20th century, the right had veered so far to the right because African Americans were winning government positions and gaining some power that they instituted Jim Crow, Poll Taxes, Literacy Tests, and all sorts of other voter suppression, flat out racist tactics in an effort to regain total control. The First Black President was inevitably going to bring about the same result as, without a doubt, 80% of conservatives are racist bigots.
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MSNBC is a way better cable news station than FoxNews. CNN isn't solely focused on politics like MSNBC. Cenk Uygar and TYT don't have a problem with going after either party. We won't have a news station that isn't afraid to criticize both parties until corporate interests are out of the equation.
 
P

pigeon

Banned
Zzoram said:
Even if Romney completely crashes and burns during the debates, I can't see hardcore GOP base voters not voting for him anyways just to spite Obama.
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Sure, they will. But how much of the GOP base is hardcore, exactly? It's an error to think 40% of voting America is racists, Christianists, and libertarians. A large percentage of reliable Republican voters are people who've always voted Republican and whose parents probably did too. Some of these are the people who keep popping up on PoliGAF as somebody's sister or aunt or cousin who just called to say they can no longer countenance voting for Mitt Romney. So, anecdotally, at least, there's a real possibility that some of that GOP base is going to get shaved away bit by bit, especially if things get worse. And are these people really going to go to the polling place just to vote for their senator and representative and Gary Johnson? They're obviously not all that interested in politics in general. So there's a real possibility of negative coattails (belly tees?) here. This might explain why the enthusiasm gap is occasionally turning up in favor of the Democrats in some polls, which almost never happens.
 
S

speculawyer

Member
"I want to see us export more jobs," Obama said, before catching himself quickly and saying, "Export more products."

"Excuse me," he exclaimed, drawing laughter. "I was channeling my opponent there for a second."

Obama frequently derides Romney, a former private equity executive, for being a "pioneer" of outsourcing jobs to other countries. With unemployment levels above 8 percent, both men are trying to convince voters they have the better plan to create jobs and boost the economy at home.
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Hey-yo!
 
D

Dr. Pangloss

Member
speculawyer said:
I don't think anyone is doing anything on guns. It is a dead issue in reality but it is still used to fire up the troops on the right with fear.

They are comin' for ya!

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51w6UuglVjL._SL500_AA300_.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]

[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agenda_21#Opposition_in_the_United_States"]Agenda 21 is going to be implemented any day now. Any day now.[/URL]


[quote="PhoenixDark, post: 42588381"]Likewise, everyone would like to see more teachers. But how do you do that with state budgets in the red? And do more teachers/more money do anything to fix an education system that is fundamentally broken? It reminds me of The Wire where the governor was advised to stay away from school reform - but here the motto is "just fake it." And then in four years he gets to say he hired more teachers and it becomes an applause line.[/QUOTE]

Your post here on education leaves out a lot of details. First, Race to the Top has been really effective in pushing his agenda. In fact they have another round of it going now: [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_to_the_Top"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_to_the_Top[/URL]. Second, all this talk about gutting welfare and no mention of all the waivers given out for NCLB. Saying that Obama is not going to have an impact on education means you are not informed.
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O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
W

watershed

Banned
Oblivion said:
OMG.

This video is GLORIOUS. Scarborough face palming and saying "sweet Jesus" isn't even the best part. It's everybody being quiet as hell as the camera takes a shot of the other panelists, especially Ed Rendell. Dat grin, holy shit. I'm dying here.
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I like the very end of the clip where the woman (Mila something?) wonders out loud "How can you fix that?" just before the clip cuts.
 
B

BLACKLAC

Member
Clevinger said:
Hm...
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1347833345242_zpsfddb255e.gif
 
M

Manos: The Hans of Fate

Banned
speculawyer said:
I don't think anyone is doing anything on guns. It is a dead issue in reality but it is still used to fire up the troops on the right with fear.
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Trying telling that to people in the OT, oh man they get fucking pissy. lol Truthfully I'd see it happening during Romney more than Obama. That said this is still things that occur via administrative rules and rulings...but nothing horrible in the last few years, besides that attempt for a ban on semi auto shotguns (the study was the first thing that was done with semi auto rifles in the Bush Sr Admin that lead to the import ban).
They are comin' for ya!

51w6UuglVjL._SL500_AA300_.jpg
Click to expand...
Ugh when have I ever suggested that?
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
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