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PoliGAF 2012 |OT3| If it's not a legitimate OT the mods have ways to shut it down

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C

Cloudy

Banned
Effect said:
I actually like that Sharpton is where he is even though he himself isn't that great.. That allows for a diverse line up of topics when you go from Sharpton, Hardball, Shultz, Maddow, and the Last Word. They each tend to hit topics that the others don't and you cut out Sharpton there is a whole host of topics that will simply be straight up ignored. If you replace him you need to replace him with someone that will hit similar topics. Hayes is to similar to Maddow and I also think his show works because he has two full hours. Condense that to one hour and it might not be as good. There are two hours of Hardball and I question the need for that.
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I'm sure thy can find someone who cares about the same issues as Sharpton who can read a prompter and doesn't sound like they are yelling at you. He's a complete amateur and a horrible example of affirmitive action for a well-known minority
 
B

besada

Banned
I enjoyed PD's conflation of Obama and Claudius. Claudius was preceded by Caligula, a deranged leader who nearly bankrupted the state with extravagant, unnecessary military actions and ridiculous personal spending. Claudius, on the other hand, shored up the infrastructure of Rome, building roads and finishing aqueducts. He began the conquest of Britain as well. He wasn't a particularly impressive or memorable Caesar, but he also wasn't a lunatic.

Of course, if we take PD's ridiculous metaphor seriously, then we should really, really hope Claudiobama, gets another term, since he was followed by Nero, who leaves the state in the grip of civil war, leading to the "Year of Four Emperors".
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
PhoenixDark said:
I'm rather shocked that nearly everything has gone Obama's way this year, outside of the average to bad jobs numbers - and yet even those haven't mattered much. Europe didn't explode, health care was upheld, Israel seemingly backed down (not that I expected them to attack, but I expected more general aggression on their part), etc.

Romney can still win, let's not kid ourselves; and I am not changing my bet. But there's no question he's in a ditch right now, almost entirely self made. And if he loses he'll go down as the absolute worse presidential candidate in what, 36 years? Out of all the republicans in the world to choose, republicans chose this guy. Granted I doubt Santorum or Gingrich would have positive favorable numbers right now either, but at least they'd be losing with some dignity; they could argue they fought the good fight, from a conservative perspective. Romney has run scared since the early summer, after coming out blazing following the end of the primaries; he never matched that opening salvo.

How do you fuck up with 8% unemployment, a slow recovery, and disillusioned democrats everywhere? Mitt Romney was warned about his ridiculous anti-immigration stances in 2007 and he doubled down. He was warned about his anti-women's rights stances, yet decided to go full blown crazy to win the nomination. In hindsight, given his money and status advantages I don't believe he had to do either of these things to win the nomination. Sure he had to disavow Romneycare, but ultimately the other two issues weren't the main issues for the GOP - the main issue was "who can beat Obama." Romney won that issue before the primaries started, yet threw it away in some weird attempt to win hearts as well as minds. It didn't work, now he's fucked...

Obama is truly the Claudius of our time. Not particularly impressive, not an inspiring leader (perhaps not a leader at all), apparently not loved by his wife...yet blessed with foolish enemies who are cast away by the gods
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VvQc94WvrU#t=9s
 
D

Dr. Pangloss

Member
TacticalFox88 said:
He's going to fuck up massively during the debates and he's going to get massacred.

The LAST debate is the Foreign Policy debate. Seriously. How in the hell does Romney even stand a snowballs chance in hell in recovering from that when the election would be two weeks from then?
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You guys are getting way too cocky because of the last two weeks. If you asked me I would rather these weeks had come at the end of October. And don't write off Romney in the debates. A caged animal will do what they need to survive. So Romney could do some really desperate attacks in the debates. The NYT just had a story of the Republican attack on Obama's handling of the embassy in Libya. Most of it read as bullshit to me, but questions will be asked about security at our foreign outposts and what he knew of terrorist involvement. Let's not get too presumptuous here.
 
M

markatisu

Member
Dr. Pangloss said:
You guys are getting way too cocky because of the last two weeks. If you asked me I would rather these weeks had come at the end of October. And don't write off Romney in the debates. A caged animal will do what they need to do to survive. So Romney could do some really desperate attacks in the debates. The NYT just had a story of the Republican attack on Obama's handling on the embassy in Libya. Most of it read as bullshit to me, but questions will be asked about security at our foreign outposts and what he knew of terrorist involvement. Let's not get too presumptuous here.
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Its not just the last 2 weeks dude, this has been it all along for those paying attention. Romney's recent stumbles are not anything new, its just up until this point his competition has been even worse then him so it did not effect him.

Santorum basically made him make similar mistakes, except he was able to dispatch that problem with outspending him. Romney did not win the GOP Primary, he survived til the end like the Hunger Games.

Romney has been failing since Day 1 of when he officially got the nomination and the actual competition began. It started off with a horrible toxic VP pick and continued with that VP lying in his speech which basically ended any legitimacy to a Ryan anything, then we have the Clint Eastwood chair incident, followed by Libya, and now the hidden comments.

Its not cockiness, there is not a legitimate argument to be made for a Romney win at this point. He could always pull of a miracle, but if he had that in him he would not have fucked up or ran such a horrible campaign to this point.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Given Romney's inability to tell jokes, start chants, or do just about anything social I'm not too worried about the zingers. I am concerned about the plan to "lure" Obama into acting smug. He tends to smirk and smile during opponent's answers, and that was fine before he was president but now I wonder if it could be an issue. I've seen focus groups label him as extremely cocky.

I'm going to bet Romney will be so corny that Obama won't be able to help but act smug
 
D

Dr. Pangloss

Member
PhoenixDark said:
Given Romney's inability to tell jokes, start chants, or do just about anything social I'm not too worried about the zingers. I am concerned about the plan to "lure" Obama into acting smug. He tends to smirk and smile during opponent's answers, and that was fine before he was president but now I wonder if it could be an issue. I've seen focus groups label him as extremely cocky.

I'm going to bet Romney will be so corny that Obama won't be able to help but act smug
Click to expand...

Smug you say? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3DeCLPwxXI
 
S

speculawyer

Member
Black Mamba said:
Let me put it this way. By all accounts, the current Republican Party has this as their national agenda:

1. Make abortion illegal in all cases, including the health of the mother, rape, and incest

2. No Gay Marriage or even Civil Unions

3. Increase Military Spending

4. Privatize Medicare and SS in the near future

5. Do nothing about healthcare (assuming there is no Obamacare)

6. Cut taxes again, especially for the wealthy (as well as eliminate corporate tax)

7. Build a wall on the Mexican border, deport every illegal immigrant you can find

8. Eliminate the EPA, ignore global warming

9. Drill baby drill

10. Ending Planned Parenthood completely including non-abortion stuff for women


Now, with the exception of possibly number 9, is there a single issue on there that 50%+ support? These are some of their biggest issues right now.

Like I said, it's a part of outdated ideas and dying ideals. This is why they will lose. This election will not be about Obama, it will be about a wholesale rejection of the Republican Party as a Party.
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I agree with you but the gap is not huge. If you allow civil unions, support for gay marriage drops below 50%. If you have exceptions for life, rape, incest, the anti-abortion view gets close to 50%. Most people don't seem to give a crap about climate change if it means changing their lifestyle at all. Building a wall on the Mexican border is popular.

A big problem is that many of these are delusional & unrealistic. We all want our taxes cut but we are running huge deficits. People want no pre-existing conditions but the don't want a mandate. People need to grow the fuck up.
 
S

sonicmj1

Member
Delusibeta said:
Dunno if this has been posted, but the Daily Mail has caught wind of the latest proclamation of the birther movement. They're aghast, surprisingly enough:


Full article, if you're curious: [daily mail dot co dot uk] /news/article-2210012/Film-claiming-Obamas-mother-posed-pornographic-pictures-sent-million-swing-voters.html Do note that the video and pictures in question are linked, so might be considered borderline NSFW.

When the Daily Mail is crying bullshit, you know you've screwed up.
Click to expand...

Are you sure the Daily Mail isn't just producing their regular round of bullshit?
 
H

HylianTom

Banned
speculawyer said:
I agree with you but the gap is not huge. If you allow civil unions, support for gay marriage drops below 50%. If you have exceptions for life, rape, incest, the anti-abortion view gets close to 50%. Most people don't seem to give a crap about climate change if it means changing their lifestyle at all. Building a wall on the Mexican border is popular.

A big problem is that many of these are delusional & unrealistic. We all want our taxes cut but we are running huge deficits. People want no pre-existing conditions but the don't want a mandate. People need to grow the fuck up.
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We're going to be forced by circumstances someday into "living within our means." And the whining and crying will be something else to watch.
 
J

Jackson50

Member
PhoenixDark said:
Exactly. That was a rather senseless, down-putting comment
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Hillary was emotionally drained at that juncture. Don't judge her too harshly.
Tim-E said:
bahahaha
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I assume it's just noise. But if they genuinely believe that, more power to them. He should memorize his hackneyed attacks aiming for a draw. Any concerted effort to score a monumental victory, especially with contrived zingers, is only tempting disaster.
speculawyer said:
I was born in New York and moved to Minnesota in elementary school.

I NEVER got used to 'pop'. It always sounded stupid.
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Yeah, but you guys fold your pizza. So you shouldn't judge about stupidity.
 
P

pigeon

Banned
cartoon_soldier said:
Obama's lack of debate prep worries me a lot. Zingers are good as media live them, Romney is better situated to win this debate.
Click to expand...

Obama is definitely preparing for the debates, he just isn't talking about it. There's no benefit to talking about how great you're going to do in the debates and a lot of downside. The only reason you might do it is if people are saying that the debates are your last chance -- which is why Romney's focusing on how much he's preparing for them.

You know who's famous for his debate zingers? Newt Gingrich. This is literally the exact reason people wanted Gingrich for a while, because they thought his verbal assaults on Obama would win people over. It wasn't a good idea then and it isn't now.
 
M

markatisu

Member
cartoon_soldier said:
Obama's lack of debate prep worries me a lot. Zingers are good as media live them, Romney is better situated to win this debate.
Click to expand...

You are worried an awful lot about a man who historically can't deal zingers out

Romney is no way better situated to win this debate, his debate history blatantly points that out

And expect the smug thing to backfire, when Obama gets Smug Romney will get angry (see the numerous times of Perry vs Romney).

Also what is Obama supposed to prepare for, Romney owns all sides of EVERY issue.
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
They were just reporting this morning that Obama is in a vigorous three day boot camp for the debates. And he has been prepping for months, on and off, in tailoring his message. Romney has similarly been preparing ridiculously hard, although obviously he has had even more time to prep than Obama, considering Obama is the president.

But in the end, it doesn't matter. Romney needs some groundbreaking revelation to change the trajectory of this race, or he needs Obama to make some major earth shattering mistake... because the fact is, a couple of zingers ain't going to do it.
 
R

rSpooky

Member
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Yea Romney will likely win the debate on points but it won't matter - he won't land the decisive blow he needs. At the end of the day he'll go in losing and come out losing, which probably is the best way to determine who actually won a debate overall.
 
D

Diablos

Member
PhoenixDark said:
Yea Romney will likely win the debate on points but it won't matter - he won't land the decisive blow he needs. At the end of the day he'll go in losing and come out losing, which probably is the best way to determine who actually won a debate overall.
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LOL. Which points, from what part of his campaign this year, that he has constantly flipped on? Are you kidding me? Romney is going to look like a bitter wooden old rich dude.
 
R

RDreamer

Member
No one wants a professor; they want a president.
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Odd. People seemed to fall in love with Clinton's professorial speech.

I think Obama actually should copy that just a smidge. People think he's all flash and not a lot of substance. People seem to be falling in love with numbers even if they're mumbo jumbo like Ryan. I hope he does throw enough in.
 
mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Cloudy said:
I'm sure thy can find someone who cares about the same issues as Sharpton who can read a prompter and doesn't sound like they are yelling at you. He's a complete amateur and a horrible example of affirmitive action for a well-known minority
Click to expand...


What makes you think that Al Sharpton was an affirmative action pick?
 
F

Forever

Banned
RDreamer said:
Odd. People seemed to fall in love with Clinton's professorial speech.

I think Obama actually should copy that just a smidge. People think he's all flash and not a lot of substance. People seem to be falling in love with numbers even if they're mumbo jumbo like Ryan. I hope he does throw enough in.
Click to expand...

Clinton's speech wasn't professorial at all, it was informative but folksy. He simplified complex issues into a way that most people can understand. It's uniquely Bill, not something that Obama can or should try to imitate.
 
R

RDreamer

Member
Forever said:
Clinton's speech wasn't professorial at all, it was informative but folksy. He simplified complex issues into a way that most people can understand. It's uniquely Bill, not something that Obama can or should try to imitate.
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I dunno, it was folksy and not over the top professorial, but it did remind me of a few of my teachers in college. They convey info in an understandable and sometimes 'folksy' manner.
 
M

matthewwhatever

Member
Amir0x said:
But in the end, it doesn't matter. Romney needs some groundbreaking revelation to change the trajectory of this race, or he needs Obama to make some major earth shattering mistake... because the fact is, a couple of zingers ain't going to do it.
Click to expand...

Not quite. A zinger works if it fits into some kind of campaign narrative (see the 1984 Canadian federal election for the best example). Of course, that requires doing some groundwork beforehand, so that people who were on the fence see it as some kind of culmination of the other candidate's failings...and seeing as the Romney campaign is stuck in the "throw everything at the wall and hope something sticks" stage, and they haven't been building any kind of cohesive case against Obama, I don't see one clever zinger -- assuming Romney is even capable of pulling it off -- as helping much.
 
R

RustyNails

Member
Pololitico: Obama's Clinton Crutch
First lady Michelle Obama’s approval ratings rival Clinton’s, but there’s no mistaking that Clinton is Obama’s most important surrogate, the one that he’s leaning on. For all the questions swirling about Mitt Romney’s personal appeal and the circular firing squad of Republicans raising doubts about his economic argument, Obama remains vulnerable on the economy and lacks Clinton’s natural ability to connect with people, despite the president’s high likability ratings.
...
But Obama campaign spokesman Adam Fetcher said Clinton’s presence is less about popularity and politics than about credibility.

“As a former president who faced similar economic and political challenges and pursued a similar path as President Obama, President Clinton is uniquely able to make the case for why the president’s vision to keep the country moving forward by building an economy from the middle class out will work, and why Mitt Romney’s plan to return to the same failed, top-down policies of the past simply will not,” Fetcher said.
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Keep sucking that rightwing dick politico. You won't convince anybody.
 
D

Diablos

Member
cartoon_soldier said:
Romney destroyed Gingrich in the Florida debates when he needed to the most. You guys are underestimating him.
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I'm not saying Obama won't have to try, but to think that Mittens having a bunch of mock debates (and apparently he was losing them at some point) is going to magically make him come out ahead during the real debates is just ridiculous. Obama is an experienced deabter, Mitt not quite as much (though he does indeed have some).
 
C

Cloudy

Banned
Here's an app recommendation for folks. It's called 2012 Map. It's one of 2 electoral college apps on iOS but it's pretty good. It has all the historical data, a live map that's updated with major polls and the ability to edit the map and share with friends
 
R

RDreamer

Member
Also, preparing zingers seems like a dumbass idea. He needs to look calm, rational, and presidential, unlike his Libya crap. Throwing some immature zinger out there doesn't look presidential to swing voters. It what the base wants, but I don't think they should rely on it.
 
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