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PoliGAF 2012 |OT3| If it's not a legitimate OT the mods have ways to shut it down
- Thread starter pigeon
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I think they're going to try and take Obama down the same way they took down Newt, with a couple of opportunistic but scripted moments. Romney's approach has to be different, because he is presently unliked, while Obama's favorables are above water. So he can't do the attack dog approach in as in the primaries; he is going to have to attack from a position of weakness. Dangerous territory.
I really don't think it will work. Partly because there are so few undecided voters left, and a zinger or two is unlikely to work. Partly because Romney cannot go on the attack without cementing voters negative perception of himself even further. And partly because Obama is not Newt Gingrich.
lol the republican debates were for an audience of idiots. Plus, he's Newt Gingrich, a guy with more skeletons in his closet than a haunted house. It's not going to take much to "destroy" him; he was a worse candidate than Romney. Gingrich was the flavor of the week because the republican base had no better options and they were trying to convince themselves that they liked Gingrich so Romney wouldn't get the nomination.
Zingers only really workout I think if the person saying them comes off as authentic and they flow naturally. Romney doesn't come off that way and when's relaxed crap about 47% flows out of his mouth. He also has the most fake laugh I've ever heard and it's hard to watch. If anything he's going to come off very, very, very fake. The second the president pushes back at any attack Romney's debate prep is going to fall apart. The republican debates aren't good to use. Those debates were where people cheered at the idea of letting a person die and ate up the food stamps crap. It was audience of fools. Also the guy that helped him win the one he did was fired soon after. Zingers are going to make him look childish, especially if he tries to get a lot in.
I still think they've been preparing to debate an Obama that does not exist. They keep acting that way when campaigning in front of republican crowds that eat that up. The second they aren't in front of them they get booed and rightfully so.
I still think they've been preparing to debate an Obama that does not exist. They keep acting that way when campaigning in front of republican crowds that eat that up. The second they aren't in front of them they get booed and rightfully so.
RustyNails
Member
Hey it's one thing to be concerned about debates, but it's comedy of epic proportions to take Romney's beatdown of Newt Gingrich as an example of Romney's debating prowess.
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
And what, you eat it with a knife and fork? There's only 1 right way to eat pizza, and it's to fold it. You fold and you eat, leaving your other hand free to do shit. What other way is there to eat pizza? Any other way is inhuman!
Aaron Strife
Banned
If Romney wants to try zingers, Obama can just pull out "GM is alive and Bin Laden is dead" and boom.
Any shot Obama takes at Romney will be automatically better on the virtue of actually being true.
Any shot Obama takes at Romney will be automatically better on the virtue of actually being true.
Yeah, but that's the thing. I know everybody loves Clinton, but he really does have a gift that few people, especially in politics, have -- the ability to talk cogently about a complicated subject without making people he's talking to feel ignorant and thus offended. This is something even most teachers can't do very well, and it's basically their whole job.
That's why my favorite line in the speech was "Of course our interest rate is below the rate of inflation, so people are basically paying to lend us money." He just tosses this off in the middle of talking about the deficit, and you nod along with it, but if you think about it really understanding this statement requires a solid grasp on a lot of economic concepts that most people really don't get -- nominal versus real interest rates, how Treasury bonds actually work, and what inflation actually does to investments, among others. That's why I keep having to post that in response to libertarians on NeoGAF! It's just not a concept that's reached most people, but Bill delivers it in such a way that people accept its validity and possibly even learn something from it, but don't feel talked down to.
Obama's a good, maybe great speaker, but he has not historically demonstrated that gift in my opinion. He takes facts and numbers seriously, like a pretty good teacher, but Clinton enjoys them, like a great one.
It's fucked up that you even CAN fold your pizza. Do you fold your sandwiches too? NOT EVERYTHING HAS TO BE FOLDABLE
DataStream
Member
I think at this point, there is a real danger in the debate for Romney to greatly overreach knowing this is his last stand. Things like the $10k bet etc just kind of come out of his mouth as a nervous response to adversity. Hell, I'd even say that is probably the reasoning behind the Libya thing... I would actually be pretty shocked if he didn't force that presser on his campaign despite reservations from his staff.
Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory seems to be Romney's best political talent, his sense of entitlement lends itself to an ignorance and arrogance that pretty much seals his fate.
Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory seems to be Romney's best political talent, his sense of entitlement lends itself to an ignorance and arrogance that pretty much seals his fate.
Where do you guys get this stuff? On what basis do you confidently state such conclusions? It's as if some of you have entire artifices built in your heads, elaborately playing out the future in exquisite detail.
All the this talk of zingers and Obama's uhh and ahh's; Romney's "prep", how much is even remembered from 08?
1)McCain "blargh" expression
2)JtheP name drop
3)Palin wink
4)?
The debates are stilted, and anti-climactic not really allowing room for a blowout. Again a draw, is a W (no pun) for Bams.
Early voting has already started. This aint Reagan Carter and even Reagan Carter wasn't Reagan Carter as Jacksonfiddy pointed out via chartology.
Game over, I only wish there were more conservatives in the thread to openly mock.
1)McCain "blargh" expression
2)JtheP name drop
3)Palin wink
4)?
The debates are stilted, and anti-climactic not really allowing room for a blowout. Again a draw, is a W (no pun) for Bams.
Early voting has already started. This aint Reagan Carter and even Reagan Carter wasn't Reagan Carter as Jacksonfiddy pointed out via chartology.
Game over, I only wish there were more conservatives in the thread to openly mock.
I'm confident Obama will win this election, I can see the polls and historical trends like everyone else. But I also don't want to endure a week long narrative about Romney making an (ultimately useless) comeback and have to personally feel a little nervous. So here's what does worry me: on occasion, Obama has put in a safe performance for the sake of the long game, like his recent convention speech. His campaign has always been about the long term plan. In 2008 we all dreamed of Biden destroying Palin in the debate, and then Obama's campaign had the long ball in mind and told Biden to play with kiddy gloves, then let her win a media narrative that she exceeded expectations even if she really didn't win the debate.
I want Obama to destroy Romney in the debate like everybody else and win with 350+ electoral votes and carry the House and Senate but I also worry Obama will just play this first debate as a high-risk, low reward exercise and put in what will be seen as a safe or workmanlike performance.
I want Obama to destroy Romney in the debate like everybody else and win with 350+ electoral votes and carry the House and Senate but I also worry Obama will just play this first debate as a high-risk, low reward exercise and put in what will be seen as a safe or workmanlike performance.
Obama isn't a soundbites guy at all
Oh man, speaking of zingers...
Some of us are just that smart. Deal with it, bro.
Pizza is special, it's meant to be eaten on the run. You buy a slice, fold it, and go. Pizza isn't a knife and fork affair like some people seem to believe. What are you? Trump? You sit down at a nice table, with a good wine, classy silverware and eat your pizza like some sort of freak?
As far as Mitt goes, the debates will be fun to watch. He won't take any risks, but Obama may be able to push him over the edge. Actually, let me revise that, the debates will be incredibly boring.
This is a classic example of a false dichotomy. Obviously I don't eat my pizza with a knife and fork. But neither do I need to fold it. I just...hold it. Like a sandwich. HENCE MY ANALOGY
But then what hand do you hold your paper plate with as you walk down the street? You have to crease the slice a little, can't just hold it perfectly flat.
jamesinclair
Banned
So you know the cartoon where obama moves right and the gop moves further right?
RustyNails
Member
There's no you guys. Stuff like that only comes from one poster.
jamesinclair
Banned
Well, that cartoon is a PERFECT representation of why Romney blew this election.
You know why after the primaries, the candidates shake their etch a sketch and move to the middle?
Because thats where they maximize votes.
Imagine for example both candidates are left of center (obama) and right of center (romney).
Obama gets every vote to the left of him, because those people wont vote Romney, as Obama is closer to their position.
Romney gets every vote to the right of him, because those people wont vote Obama as Romney is closer to their position.
The people in the middle are evenly divided. Those closer to romney vote romney, those clsoer to obama vote obama.
In this case, the country is divided 50/50.
(We can ignore 3rd parties because theyre so minor, and for every green party voter theres a libertarian voter)
In this case, the winner is decided by voter enthusiasm + getting the other side not to vote. What happens is an incredibly tight race, like 2000.
So usually what happens is the candidates to to move closer to their opponent. If Obama moves right, he keeps everyone to his left AND gets some of romneys voters.
Romney naturally responds by moving left, so that the vote is balanced again, 50/50.
Thats why in most cases the candidates are so similar....they want to maximize votes by moving as close to the middle as possible.
HOWEVER, thats not what Romney did.
Romney moved right. His theory was that this would make his voters more likely to vote. but doing so, he immediately gives up voters to Obama, who doesnt have to move at all to gain them.
But if Obama moves right....
Romney is left with way too small a piece of the pie.
AKA: 2012 election.
So that cartoon, where the GOP says theyll move if Obama moves?
That sealed their position in the election of being the losing party.
You know why after the primaries, the candidates shake their etch a sketch and move to the middle?
Because thats where they maximize votes.
Imagine for example both candidates are left of center (obama) and right of center (romney).
Obama gets every vote to the left of him, because those people wont vote Romney, as Obama is closer to their position.
Romney gets every vote to the right of him, because those people wont vote Obama as Romney is closer to their position.
The people in the middle are evenly divided. Those closer to romney vote romney, those clsoer to obama vote obama.
In this case, the country is divided 50/50.
(We can ignore 3rd parties because theyre so minor, and for every green party voter theres a libertarian voter)
In this case, the winner is decided by voter enthusiasm + getting the other side not to vote. What happens is an incredibly tight race, like 2000.
So usually what happens is the candidates to to move closer to their opponent. If Obama moves right, he keeps everyone to his left AND gets some of romneys voters.
Romney naturally responds by moving left, so that the vote is balanced again, 50/50.
Thats why in most cases the candidates are so similar....they want to maximize votes by moving as close to the middle as possible.
HOWEVER, thats not what Romney did.
Romney moved right. His theory was that this would make his voters more likely to vote. but doing so, he immediately gives up voters to Obama, who doesnt have to move at all to gain them.
But if Obama moves right....
Romney is left with way too small a piece of the pie.
AKA: 2012 election.
So that cartoon, where the GOP says theyll move if Obama moves?
That sealed their position in the election of being the losing party.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
does the gop fall off a cliff and get an anvil to the head?
cartoon_soldier
Member
Hey, I don't offer Obama psych analysis at least.
I admit it, I am very pessimist when it comes to the Election. Probably because I blind in 2010.
How do win a debate on points? Is there an official scoring system?
What an entirely broken logic. Opinion is not fact.
gutter_trash
Banned
Obama governs as a Center-Right President.
This whole narriative of painting him as a socialist is ludicrously laughable.
Al Frankin is on the left, Dennis Kuccinic is on the left.
But Obama the President is Center-Right. He may have been a Center-Left state senator in Illinois but he is a Center to Center-Right President and there is no spin on that
This whole narriative of painting him as a socialist is ludicrously laughable.
Al Frankin is on the left, Dennis Kuccinic is on the left.
But Obama the President is Center-Right. He may have been a Center-Left state senator in Illinois but he is a Center to Center-Right President and there is no spin on that
Ela Hadrun
Probably plays more games than you
My name's Ela Hadrun and I'm here to say
Folding your pizza is the only way
Also I was wondering how Elizabeth Warren is doing but this pizza issue is dear to my heart.
Folding your pizza is the only way
Also I was wondering how Elizabeth Warren is doing but this pizza issue is dear to my heart.
That's why I love him so much. With Dems moving to the left and the Reps moving into a nuthouse it may be a long time before we get a President I like better than Obama.
Byakuya769
Member
What issues are Dems moving to the left on? Gay marriage... and?
Whether far lefties like it or not, this is a centrist country and the President is the President for people on both ends of the spectrum. I think Obama has tried to be as pragmatic and centrist as possible. Warren and Franken types will never make it on a national level. Pragmatic liberalism in small doses is our best bet in the US, which is why I'm happy with Obama's first term and why I think he needs a second.
Black Republican
Member
Then Romney says. .." and our ambassador is dead" Crowd :O
gutter_trash
Banned
he s a pro corporerate and Pro wall street President.
He may yell loud that Wall Street is immoral but he rewards them anyway and has Tim Geithner around and Burnanke
Social Issues whaterver
it's on economics that a President really gets judged on and Obama is a pro Wall Street President bottom line.
Bill Clinton was more on the Right than Obama
Aaron Strife
Banned
Somehow I can't imagine that going over well.
Yeah, Clinton was awesome when he repealed Glass–Steagall.
Clinton and Obama are both mediocre, right-leaning presidents. The only difference is Obama got a huge recession on day one and Clinton lucked out with the dot com boom.
It had a veto-proof majority.
The thing is today's GOP is so far right, the center has become the left and the left has become the far left..
Neither am I. Obama's preparing apace as the NYT article notes. The anxiety some experience is unwarranted.
Gingrich's intellectual formidability and rhetorical prowess made Romney's triumph even greater. Come on. Romney defeated a lightweight only after having his ass handed to him. It's difficult, if not impossible, to underestimate Romney.
Touché
Half and half
Member
Oh, thanks for that. Did not know that.
Byakuya769
Member
Forever have me on ignore or something?
To quote the great Paul Krugman, Newt Gingrich is a stupid man's idea of what a smart person sounds like.
Gingrich likes to think of himself as the smartest guy since the dawning of civilization, and he DOES know random facts and figures, but if you saw the way he debates, it was always a matter of style over substance. He'd be using big words, and he would be using them confidently, which is generally enough for most people to think "Hey, looks like this guy actually knows what he's talking about!". But he's absolutely HORRIBLE when he's actually confronted with something and his opponent actually presses him to answer. That's why he got "destroyed" by Romney in the Florida debates, cause he couldn't weasel and deflect his way out of the situation.
Hell, the guy consistently gets schooled by Chris Matthews, Anderson Cooper, and hell, even Al Sharpton. The guy was ALWAYS massively overrated. But hey, in a room full of toddlers, the kid who can go potty by himself does seem pretty impressive.
Gingrich likes to think of himself as the smartest guy since the dawning of civilization, and he DOES know random facts and figures, but if you saw the way he debates, it was always a matter of style over substance. He'd be using big words, and he would be using them confidently, which is generally enough for most people to think "Hey, looks like this guy actually knows what he's talking about!". But he's absolutely HORRIBLE when he's actually confronted with something and his opponent actually presses him to answer. That's why he got "destroyed" by Romney in the Florida debates, cause he couldn't weasel and deflect his way out of the situation.
Hell, the guy consistently gets schooled by Chris Matthews, Anderson Cooper, and hell, even Al Sharpton. The guy was ALWAYS massively overrated. But hey, in a room full of toddlers, the kid who can go potty by himself does seem pretty impressive.
Gutter Trash answered you already regarding economic policies, but to add to that I prefer Obama's approach to foreign policy and national security over what the Democratic base seems to want.
I think this is overblown. He just attacked Newt's shadiness/hypocrisy and Newt had no response
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUzylT5vlBU
Byakuya769
Member
Gutter trash's assertions are the exact opposite of yours. He illustrated that Obama is center right.. ok. You asserted that the Democratic party is moving to the left, I don't see any areas besides social issues (gay marriage) where that is true.
Buh? How is that the opposite of what I'm saying? That's exactly what I've been saying.
Byakuya769
Member
I literally do not understand what you are trying to convey. I don't even know how to begin deciphering your intent.
Nothing you're bolding makes any sense in the context of what you've written.
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