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[Hobbestetrician]

Dunno but he's definitely down a touchdown in the fourth quarter.

I don't know, they just enlisted John Elway to try and help lead them down the field.

 

[Clevinger]

Actually, that's exactly how someone who tried to exploit being "Native American" despite specious roots deserves to be ridiculed.

I used to think you were better than stuff like this, but you really aren't. This is you.

 

[Kosmo]

Odd, because those specious roots put her at the same amount (1/32) of Cherokee heritage as principle chief of the Cherokee nation, Bill John Baker.

The accusation that she used this to get ahead seem to be far more specious.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...0b7f568-08a5-11e2-a10c-fa5a255a9258_blog.html

Warren has claimed Cherokee and Delaware Indian heritage, but the only proof so far seems to be stories she says she heard from family members as a child. Cherokee groups have demanded documentation of the candidate’s Native American ancestry, but she hasn’t delivered.
The New England Historic Genealogical Society found a family newsletter that alluded to a marriage-license application supposedly listing Warren’s great-great-great grandmother as part Cherokee.
The Boston Globe misreported this information, saying that the genealogical society had found the marriage license itself and debunked the notion that Warren lied about her lineage. The paper later acknowledged its mistake in a correction notice.
The author of the family newsletter said she didn’t have documentation of the marriage-license application and she doesn’t know who sent her the reference.
(Indian Country Today Media Network has posted the family newsletter on its Web site).
The New England genealogical society clarified in a statement that it has found no proof of Warren’s self-proclaimed Native American lineage. The group also told The Globe that the candidate’s family is not listed in an early-20th century census of major tribes, known as the Dawes Rolls.
An article in Atlantic magazine pointed out that Warren “would not be eligible to become a member of any of the three federally recognized Cherokee tribes based on the evidence so far surfaced by independent genealogists about her ancestry.” That’s because her Cherokee ancestors, if she has any, would either be too distant or they never documented their ties in ways that meet the tribes’ requirements.
Obviously, this doesn’t preclude Warren from having traces of Native American heritage.

Warren contributed recipes to a Native American cookbook called “Pow Wow Chow,” published in 1984 by the Five Civilized Tribes Museum in Muskogee, Okla. She signed her entries “Elizabeth Warren -- Cherokee.

The Boston Herald reported in April that Warren had listed herself as a minority in the American Association of Law Schools directory and that Harvard Law School had touted her supposed lineage when the program faced doubts about faculty diversity.

The Democratic candidate stumbled early on in reacting to this controversy. At one point, Warren cited remarks that her aunt Bea made about high cheekbones in the family as evidence of her indigenous ancestry. She said she listed herself as a minority in the professional listings merely to connect with “people like me,” noting that it was “not a particularly good use for the directory, because it never happened.”

 

[AntoneM]

You guys are being very diffusional. Warren is barely ahead in one of the most liberal states in the country. She is arguably the most hated political figure on Wall Street; they may not like Obama but at least they know he's on their side policy wise. She comes off as an elitist professor from the northeast. She struggles on the stump and doing the nitty gritty of campaigning, much like Romney and every other northeastern politician outside of the Kennedys. She's not a good politician, as tonight's debate showed.

Colorado is not a solid blue state, neither is Virginia. A solid republican candidate would certainly compete there, especially VA.

Your basic argument is that demographics mean democrats can win regardless of who they run. That is not true. Warren is seen as elitist even in MA

Which is exactly why I'd vote for her.

 

[codhand]

Gregory: Who is your faveski justice?
Brown: Scalia
Crowd: Booooo
Brown: Uh Sotomayor, I'm independent!

 

[RustyNails]

Same thing happened to Giuliani. Expect the same articles to be dropped about Chris Christie when he crashes and burns in the 2016 primaries.

My understanding was that Joe Biden permanently annihilated Giuliani's dreams of becoming president.

 

[Clevinger]

My understanding was that Joe Biden permanently annihilated Giuliani's dreams of becoming president.

That, and Giuliani moronically bet all his hopes on Florida, a state he got a measly third in anyway.

 

[johnsmith]

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics/july-dec12/shieldsbrooks_09-28.html

Wow, David Brooks is an asshole. "Early voting is an abomination because the debates haven't happened." Then he admits the debates don't matter.

 

[HylianTom]

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics/july-dec12/shieldsbrooks_09-28.html

Ahh.. good to see Shields saying this. Seems like it rhymes with my "he comes-off as a sleazeball" theory. It'll be fun to see how people compare him with Obama when they're finally in the same space together in two nights.

 

[B-Dubs]

My understanding was that Joe Biden permanently annihilated Giuliani's dreams of becoming president.

I have to ask how did he do it? I figured it was betting it all on Florida that did it.

 

[Zabka]

That, and Giuliani moronically bet all his hopes on Florida, a state he got a measly third in anyway.

He bet everything on Florida because the more he campaigned in Iowa and NH the more his poll numbers dropped. Here's an old story on it: http://www.nysun.com/national/giuliani-begins-retreat-from-new-hampshire/68209/

If you've ever met Giuliani in person you'd understand why. The guy looks like Quentin Tarantino when he became a vampire in From Dusk Till Dawn. I say this from firsthand experience: I saw him up close in a Staten Island movie theater bathroom.

There was also the scandal with his goon (and I don't throw that term around lightly) Kerik.

 

[speculawyer]

I don't know, they just enlisted John Elway to try and help lead them down the field.

The joke would have worked better with Steve Young.

(And I don't even know much about sports.)

Wow, David Brooks is an asshole. "Early voting is an abomination because the debates haven't happened." Then he admits the debates don't matter.

Yes, he is an asshole. But he is still much better than the dreck like Krauthammer, Erick erickson, Glenn Beck, Rush, Jonah Goldberg, etc.

 

[Gotchaye]

It's not a major thing and I certainly don't think it's apt to characterize Brown's campaign as, in any substantial way, "racist". It was a pretty big asshole move to incorporate identity to begin with, especially absent Warren in any way incorporating her own background in that way. But I think the reaction was enough to contain it, and it doesn't really deserve further consideration on either side IMHO.

Had you not seen Brown telling the debate audience what Warren's ancestry is? http://youtu.be/xzf2WIJgxwI?t=30s

At the very least, that statement is pretty racist. Brown hasn't apologized for it; he's only denied saying it. Since then he's continued to attack Warren on the issue, and just tonight he attacked Warren at another debate about her allegedly switching back and forth between identifications. But the only reason to say that this alleged switching is a "character issue" is that he still endorses his earlier line of attack - that Warren is not NA and therefore her "checking the box" got her benefits that she was not entitled to. This is not an attack on Warren for benefiting from affirmative action; it's an attack on Warren for allegedly cheating the system. Despite there being absolutely no evidence that Warren was lying, and only pretty weak reasons for thinking that she's incorrect (I'm assuming that if there was stronger evidence, Kosmo would have included it).

This stuff hasn't been contained. Brown's still at it. It's receiving further consideration from Brown, in that he's doubling down on it. It's splitting hairs to say that Brown's not racist at this point.

If someone had trotted that out on GAF before this whole thing went down, they'd get banned and called a racist asshole. I hope.

 

[RustyNails]

I have to ask how did he do it? I figured it was betting it all on Florida that did it.

It was this line.

 

[B-Dubs]

It was this line.

Oh god, HE was the one that came up with that? I knew Biden was a boss.

 

[Tim-E]

This candidate for WV state Supreme Court feels like a parody. I kind of love it.

http://youtube.com/#/watch?v=hDNxQqtDro0

 

[speculawyer]

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics/july-dec12/shieldsbrooks_09-28.html

And the theory is that Mitt Romney is the first presidential candidate in -- certainly in the last 35 years who wherever he campaigns does worse. And I think that's his real problem.

Mitt is the candidate equivalent of Bush's Privatize Social Security program . . . after getting reelected, he toured around in 2005 trying to sell that program. The more people learned about it, the more they hated it.

And it should not be surprising because basically Mitt is trying to sell the same dog food with Medicare, eliminating deductions, tax-cuts for rich, etc.

 

[codhand]

God that David Gregory debate moderation was atrocious, it bears repeating.

 

[speculawyer]

Oh god, HE was the one that came up with that? I knew Biden was a boss.

That's the thing with zingers . . . . sometimes you don't know how they'll fly. Sometimes they are big like that one. Other times they are "They are trying to put you back in chains!"

 

[The Librarian]

Can't believe Nate wasted an article on this: http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytime...ie/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

I read his profile on Vermont earlier, and I think Nate underplayed the liberal shift the state has undergone. No mention of the makeup of the state legislature or the presence of the VPP.

 

[Hobbestetrician]

The joke would have worked better with Steve Young.

(And I don't even know much about sports.)

Should Mitt Romney be Worried about that John Elway Endorsement?

It was this line.

Dammit, I love Joe Biden.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

I have not seen cartoon solider or diablos chime in yet, guess the oh god Obama is going to lose narrative will come later tonight

I have said I am fearful for the debate for Obama and its after effect.

And that I don't think OH is O+8, O+4 is more realistic.

 

[The Librarian]

And why was ToxicAdam banned?

 

[B-Dubs]

That's the thing with zingers . . . . sometimes you don't know how they'll fly. Sometimes they are big like that one. Other times they are "They are trying to put you back in chains!"

I think Biden, and guys like him, can get more use out of zingers though since when they fail flat people just go "Biden gonna Biden" and when they work they work.

 

[codhand]

Can't believe Nate wasted an article on this: http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytime...ie/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Agree.

Fortunately, such an outcome remains quite unlikely. Of the 25,001 simulations that we ran on Monday... tie came up... 0.6 percent of the time.

---

And why was ToxicAdam banned?

EV's blood sacrifice demanded more blood?

---


Also,

 

[Aaron Strife]

You all know I'm as liberal as they come - I don't think Elizabeth Warren should wage a national campaign. Her appeal as a candidate is somewhat limited geographically.

And that I don't think OH is O+8, O+4 is more realistic.

I'd average those two and say O+6, which is still slightly lower than TPM's average (+6.5).

I'd buy it just because Romney comes off as the guy who fired you (he very may well have been!) and I can't imagine that plays well in Ohio.

 

[Suikoguy]

Should Mitt Romney be Worried about that John Elway Endorsement?.

One of the top comments from that article was quite genius.

DEADSPIN Y DO U POST THIS LIBTARD C--P. JON ELWAY IS A REAL AMERICAN HERO WHO LEADS 4TH QUARTR COMBACKS LIKE HE IS SWOTTING A FLY.... HE CAN DO IT IN HIS SLEEP. MITT ROMNEY WILL ALSO MAKE A $TH QUARTR COMEBACK TOO..... WHAT DO U DO 'SEAN NEWELL' IF THAT IS EVEN UR REAL NAME... THATS RIGHT U JUST SIT AT A COMPUTER DRINKING "EXPRESO" INPORTED FROM SOME COMMIE NATION.... U R JUST LIKE BAROCK HUSAIN OBAMA, U HATE REAL MEN LIKE JESUS & RONALD REAGAN GOD REST HIS SOLE & JON ELWAY. U R PROBABLY A NEW YORK JETS FAN.

PLEASE DO NOT SEND ME UR NEWSPAPER N E MORE.

The last line has me fairly convinced it was a joke comment (and a pretty good one). But the sad thing is, there is still a chance it's real

 

[HylianTom]

Damn.. Letterman's putting the wood to Romney tonight about him not visiting the show. And then he showed the "I like to fire people who provide services to me" clip.

Ow.

(bonus: Colbert is the first guest tonight)

 

[codhand]

Damn.. Letterman's putting the wood to Romney tonight about him not visiting the show. And then he showed the "I like to fire people who provide services to me" clip.

Ow.

(bonus: Colbert is the first guest tonight)

Cool, watching...

 

[PhoenixDark]

One of the top comments from that article was quite genius.



The last line has me fairly convinced it was a joke comment (and a pretty good one). But the sad thing is, there is still a chance it's real

PLEASE DO NOT SEND ME UR NEWSPAPER N E MORE.

Clever, too clever. Could it be...

 

[Wray]

Oh god, people are talking about Warren for President? Please no. I want democrats to actually win. She'd be another Michael Dukakis or John Kerry.

Can't we just accept John F. Kennedy cursed the state of Massachusetts when it comes to Presidential candidates?

John Kerry and Dukakis would both win if they were running today with today's demographics and electoral map.

 

[Byakuya769]

And why was ToxicAdam banned?

I think equating a newborn to "a fetus that escaped the womb" got him pinched in the thread about the 14 y/o who strangled the baby she gave birth to in a toilet. The assertion, while certainly provocative, does beg questions on when and how we define a baby.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

http://www.buzzfeed.com/blakezeff/why-its-impossible-to-win-a-debate

As the article notes, shit like Bush checking his watch, nobody cared about when it happened. But the media made the whole debate about that one moment.

 

[pigeon]

The Brown campaign floated a trial balloon that Warren, who answered some sort of college self-identification survey as being part-native, was somehow abusing the system or lying about her ethnic identity or that she wasn't brown enough to do so. There's been some blow-back that it's really not cool to tell people what their identity is.

Some mid-level staffers made some native jokes subsequent to this issue.

It's not a major thing and I certainly don't think it's apt to characterize Brown's campaign as, in any substantial way, "racist". It was a pretty big asshole move to incorporate identity to begin with, especially absent Warren in any way incorporating her own background in that way. But I think the reaction was enough to contain it, and it doesn't really deserve further consideration on either side IMHO.

Yeah, I utterly disagree with this. For one thing, I think you're really downplaying the insensitivity of Brown's campaign staff doing war whoops. Leaving aside the fact that the staffers in question were Brown's campaign manager, and that when asked about whether he should apologize he said Warren should apologize for claiming to be Native American (he's since apologized), that's really on par with the Obama watermelon/monkey/thug lyfe/what have you email forwards that we see popping out of regional GOP headquarters every few months. I mean, it's hard to get more overtly racist than doing a war whoop to mock somebody for being Native American. And those staffers weren't fired or even, apparently, reprimanded, so it's totally aboveboard to say that Brown condones it and is thus responsible for it, because that's more or less what condoning means.

In addition, Brown began both of the debates they participated in by talking about how Warren's "obviously" not Native American. This is absolutely exploitative politics, especially because Warren may well be, as noted, Native American. Admittedly, only to a very small degree, but hey, just one drop.

 

[Oblivion]

Wow, David Brooks is an asshole.

You can't see it, but this is my surprised look. It's actually quite sexy.

 

[PhoenixDark]

http://www.buzzfeed.com/blakezeff/why-its-impossible-to-win-a-debate

As the article notes, shit like Bush checking his watch, nobody cared about when it happened. But the media made the whole debate about that one moment.

Which is why I think they'll declare Romney the winner if he gets one "moment" of interest, regardless of its relevance. You can already see them trying their hardest to create a Romney Comeback narrative. Polls are certainly tightening which should trouble Obama fans but Romney is still quite behind...

 

[Aaron Strife]

Polls are certainly tightening which should trouble Obama fans but Romney is still quite behind...

Silver disagrees

The 9 national polls published today showed Obama +3.5 on average. However, prior edition of same polls showed Obama +3.7. Most of this isn't complicated. Just a matter of looking at all polls instead of cherry-picking 3 on a day when there are 20.

At least you're admitting Romney's in a hole though. Baby steps!

 

[Cloudy]

I think it's hard for the media to spin live events in the age of twitter. I think the twitter reaction will dictate the coverage more than anything

 

[speculawyer]

I think it's hard for the media to spin live events on the age of twitter. I think the twitter reaction will dictate the coverage more than anything

Meh. Twitter will be largely pro-Obama because Grandma and GrandPa don't Twitter.

 

[pigeon]

I think it's hard for the media to spin live events on the age of twitter. I think the twitter reaction will dictate the coverage more than anything

This is a very smart observation, but if you're right, it's just going to be yet another structural advantage for the Democrats, party of people who understand social media.

 

[Cloudy]

Meh. Twitter will be largely pro-Obama because Grandma and GrandPa don't Twitter.

Possibly but the news media is a huge demographic on twitter as well and they are influenced by twitter reaction

 

[Incognito]

Damn.. Letterman's putting the wood to Romney tonight about him not visiting the show. And then he showed the "I like to fire people who provide services to me" clip.

Ow.

(bonus: Colbert is the first guest tonight)

This is nothing new. Letterman has been on a sustained and hilarious mission against Romney for at least 4 months, now. Every night Roger Simon of Politico tweets all of Letterman's comments about Romney and they are absolute gold. :lol

 

[Oblivion]

Completely OT but I'd just like to say that Poligaf has the best taste in women on the gaf. That Ivy cosplayer pic I posted by accident didn't seem to get any reaction in the other threads I posted in. Lousy anime watching simians, the whole lot of them.

 

[el retorno]

This is a very smart observation, but if you're right, it's just going to be yet another structural advantage for the Democrats, party of people who understand social media.

The live tweets/jokes of the Republican Debates were amazing.

 

[gutter_trash]

enter surrogate tuesday

 

[pigeon]

Just a little anecdote about Romney's widely admired ability to connect with the workaday voter:

“It’s difficult for him to understand why people would think of him not understanding their daily travails because of his enormous wealth,” said Douglas Gross, who chaired Romney’s 2008 campaign in Iowa but is not involved with his campaign now. Romney perceives that he’s “lived his own life in a way that’s not extravagant, [and so] he doesn’t understand why people wouldn’t think he understands their pain.”

Gross recalls confronting Romney directly on this gulf in their first meeting. “I asked him, ‘You’re an incredibly successful guy and can you relate to average folks in the cafes of Iowa?’ and he found that question insulting and refused to answer it. To me, that’s the microcosm of the problem.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...7f9a80-0895-11e2-a10c-fa5a255a9258_print.html

Backpats to TNR for the link.

 

[Oblivion]

To be slightly more ON topic:

https://twitter.com/i/#!/search/?q=#romneyzingers&src=hash

 

[Timedog]

Actually, that's exactly how someone who tried to exploit being "Native American" despite specious roots deserves to be ridiculed.

Time to alert a bunch of mods about a racist garbage post from Kosmo (how unexpected). Let's see what happens...

 

[watershed]

Just a little anecdote about Romney's widely admired ability to connect with the workaday voter:



http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...7f9a80-0895-11e2-a10c-fa5a255a9258_print.html

Backpats to TNR for the link.

From the same article:

Later that day, asked in an NBC interview how he can “better connect with Americans,” Romney offered an accomplishment, rather than a declaration of his feelings — the universal health-care law that he signed as governor of Massachusetts.

“One hundred percent of the kids in our state had health insurance,” he said of the law that was the model for Obama’s Affordable Care Act — which Romney has vowed to repeal.

“I don’t think there’s anything that shows more empathy and care about the people of this country than that kind of record.”

Which is why, When I'm President I will repeal Obamacare and deny that same level of access to healthcare for the rest of the nation!

 

[speculawyer]

Mitt . . . if you do the "Who ordered Obamaloney on Lie" line I'll donate $10 to your campaign. Just puttin' that out there for ya, big guy.