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PoliGAF 2012 |OT3| If it's not a legitimate OT the mods have ways to shut it down

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P

Particle Physicist

between a quark and a baryon
Officerrob said:
I watched Hardball and they talked about it for like 2 minutes, 45 minutes into the show. You are acting like it's wall-to-wall marathongate. It's a one day, 2 minute, silly story that you can bet your ass would be covered by Fox if the shoe was on the other foot.
Click to expand...

I love how he gets pissy that a flat out lie gets mentioned briefly in a report... meanwhile, the entire republican convention was built entirely around a misconstrued gaffe....
 
C

cartoon_soldier

Member
Kosmo said:
I thought they were fine. You seem to be under the impression that substance matters in political speeches vs style. Neither are going to be memorable long term and yet the only reason people remember Obama's speech in 2008 is one thing - style.
Click to expand...

I actually remember the most is him calling out McCain for not pursuing Bin Laden into Pakistan. It is not hard to mix substance with style.
 
P

Particle Physicist

between a quark and a baryon
The fact that he lied about something so meaningless as a marathon time speaks volumes about his morals... but I guess Kosmo is saying that he would rather the media talk about the other multitude of lies that were spewed from his orifice? Cause there are plenty more.
 
K

Kosmo

Banned
Officerrob said:
I watched Hardball and they talked about it for like 2 minutes, 45 minutes into the show. You are acting like it's wall-to-wall marathongate. It's a one day, 2 minute, silly story that you can bet your ass would be covered by Fox if the shoe was on the other foot.
Click to expand...

To be honest, other than Hannity, I doubt it would be mentioned other than in passing.
 
Z

zou

Member
Kosmo said:
Exactly. It's at least as meaningless as saying you won't rest until the BP oil spill in contained and then getting in 6 rounds of golf between the time you say that and it's actually contained, right?

It was dumb thing for Ryan to try and exaggerate. Period.
Click to expand...

Obama also somehow found the time to enjoy both April and May and more than 4 weekends. Not to mention at least some 50 meals or so. I think this might even be worse than Ryan's marathon-gate.

Or, you know, It was a dumb thing for Kosmos to try his false equivalency schtick.
 
S

speculawyer

Member
Cloudy said:
Oh and the media needs to GTFO with the "are you better off" bullshit. I remember seeing the stock market drop 800+ pts on 2 separate days in 2008. It has more than doubled under Obama.

If the GOP wants to blame him for everything else, he should get all the credit for that. Shit, I remember when it was "Obama's stock market" on Fox a week after the election. I don't hear that anymore. I wonder why...
Click to expand...
I hope they keep asking it and they have a list of talking a points ready:
-stock market nearly doubling
-Usama Bin Laden dead
-Oil production up some 30% or so
-Iraq war over
-Corporate profits up
-Natural gas prices down
-First two nuclear licenses granted in over 30 years
-Reagan's nemesis Ghadaffi dead
 
B

Brinbe

Member
Cyan said:
The interpretation will be "Obama thinks we're government property! He wants to put y'all back in chains!"
Click to expand...
Oh, I know, no doubt. But the people that would buy into that thinking would never have voted for Bams anyway, would they? They're probably already on the Paul/Johnson or Romney trains.
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
Kosmo said:
Exactly. It's at least as meaningless as saying you won't rest until the BP oil spill in contained and then getting in 6 rounds of golf between the time you say that and it's actually contained, right?

It was dumb thing for Ryan to try and exaggerate. Period.
Click to expand...

"They lie too, and just as much," says the poster aiming to boost the standing of another false equivalency. It's like a mantra or prayer, a magical phrase that if you repeated enough might weave it into a relevant and absolute trusim.

Obviously, the way this works is there is always a hint of truth. That nugget is spun in just such a way that makes it plausible, a point that may require consideration beyond an immediate rejection. Yes, both sides do lie and distort and play fast and loose with reality. Why, everyone knows this! Why even argue?

The problem is the scale of the lies and the bold-faced audacity of the hard sell happens to be far, far worse on one side than the other.

It's one thing to massage actual achievements, to focus only on the good and never the bad. It's one thing to exaggerate (say, Ryan's marathon run). It's one thing even to genuinely believe in a certain economic or political theory that has been proven demonstrably false: people are entitled to their opinions, however wrong. These are things pundits like to bat back and forth because it wastes a segment in the age of twenty four hour news networks and non-stop arm chair analysis on the internet.

But it's another thing entirely to not just lie, but to then invent an entire pre-baked mountain of fabrications wherein you slam your opponent for things you caused, you attack aggressively for things an individual had no control over, you cut throats over stuff you used to support. Because what it says about an individual so devoid of personal principles that they'd be willing to invent things out of whole cloth at this magnitude time and time again in this fashion is far more damning. It is these that are genuinely unacceptable in the political arena. Yeah, it's another thing entirely to actively and continually attempt to mislead people into the wilderness so that they'll vote your way.

A smattering of small examples:

Exaggerations/Low-Class Fibs: √ Ok!

● Ryan's Marathon Exaggeration
● Clint Eastwood's 23 Million Unemployed Exaggeration
● The 'war on women', 'war on Christmas', 'war on religion' and other such hyperbolic nonsense

Mid-Tier Lies/Politically Expedient Fibs: Ø Eh...

● Obama's 'revolving door' "Evolution" on Gay Marriage and Drug Enforcement Policy/FISA Warrantless Wiretapping/etc
● Romney's 'revolving door' on... well every subject ever known to man.
● Ryan's Anti-Federal Funding Myth

Top-Tier Lies/Self-Incriminating Fibs: Ø No.

● Romney's Welfare Attack Lies
● The Priorities USA Super-Pac Romney killed Joe Soptic's wife lie*
● Ryan's Janesville Auto Plant Lie
● Obama's "I'm not a Kenyan Muslim" Lie (LOL)
● The Republican party/Romney's We Wanted Obama to Succeed Lie


As the tiers evolve, it is clear to see which party increasingly goes off the deep end and which ones keeps it within the bounds of typical political theater. I'd love to see Kosmo or some other conservative drop the pretend and call a spade a spade: they're supporting a man who once claimed to believe in everything they hate, and he's running his election literally on an engine that runs on Top-Tier lies. Contrast that to the opponent and tally up the score, piece by piece, if you have the time. Do it. Be honest with yourself, because that's the only person who matters in the end. And if you come up with a conclusion that is anything other than a stark, harsh reflection of reality and the state of the modern Republican party, then you just lied to yourself. And nobody here can very much help you with that.

*
It is important to note that this is a Super-Pac, and not directly from Obama's campaign. That said, this is the price of the horrific Citizen's USA law and these commercials are typically used to push the worst of the worst fabrications
 
J

Jackson50

Member
It's an important week for the glacial pivot towards Asia. After attending the Pacific Islands Forum last week, Secretary Clinton met with the ASEAN leadership today. They focused primarily on maritime disputes. Although not stated directly, allusions to China abounded. Further, as I noted last week, this highlights the Obama Administration's emphasis on expanding American engagement with Asian multilateral organizations. Accordingly, USTR Ron Kirk recently attended an ASEAN economic summit. He's the first USTR to attend the meeting. The primary issue was the TPP. Nothing consequential was accomplished, but it established the framework for 2013.
 
C

Clevinger

Member
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