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PoliGAF 2012 |OT3| If it's not a legitimate OT the mods have ways to shut it down

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E

Eidan

Member
Diablos said:
A valid comparison, somewhat. Still, even Bush did a better job at least looking more calm and collected while he endured Kerry coming down hard on his ass.

Obama was completely ,and I mean completely, out of his element.
Click to expand...

I think you should rewatch Bush in 2004. His performance was far worse than Obama's.
 
L

Loudninja

Member
Thompson was broke after primary
Republican U.S. Senate candidate Tommy Thompson underscored the precarious financial state of his campaign after the August Republican primary on the radio Thursday morning.

Thompson said his campaign had spent all its money in the four-way Republican primary. He won the Aug. 14 race.

“For 28 days after the primary we were out of money,” Thompson told WTMJ-AM’s Charles Sykes.

That forced the campaign to stay off the airwaves while his Democratic opponent, U.S. Rep. Tammy Baldwin, was up on the air and, he said, mischaracterizing his record.

Thompson said Baldwin has been attacking her “and she has done a pretty job of it.”

However, Thompson also spent much of time on the air doing much the same, criticizing Baldwin as too liberal and an ineffective member of Congress.
Click to expand...
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/172678921.html
 
T

TacticalFox88

Banned
Diablos said:
Ugh, everyone I'm talking to is feeling the same way. First they were unimpressed, but as reality sinks in it's absolutely terrifying how badly Obama bombed the debate.

Like Popopop said, even when a candidate usually "loses" the debate they are still on their game and criticism is often just made for the sake of ratings. But we saw the President completely lose control of the debate. He completely failed. If I were to grade him I'd say it was a D or possibly F.

It makes me wonder if a. he straight up had a nervous breakdown and/or b. something serious is happening in the US/world that he was recently made aware of that really upset him.
Click to expand...

Yes, Obama disappointed us. But that's mainly because we expected, unrealistically, for him to be extremely agressive and stomp Romney hard, forgetting what kind of person Obama is.
 
H

hydragonwarrior

Member
speculawyer said:
Sadly, this is probably true.



I'm sure the right is crowing about Romney's performance but I wonder if they are criticizing him at all. Romney largely won by throwing the conservative party line under the bus. He said he would NOT cut taxes on the wealthy at all. He said he would NOT cut taxes at all really since he would not cut Medicare, he'd grow the military, and he'd not grow the deficit. It is impossible to do that and cut taxes. I don't think he can even do that without tax-hikes unless he cut massive amounts of other stuff which would be politically impossible. Romney was all too proud to shovel $716 billion into 'big government socialized medicine' medicare.
Click to expand...

They won't care about the content of the speech, but what it looked like. And it looked like he won. For those hardcore conservatives, that's all that matters to them, apparently.
 
D

Diablos

Member
TacticalFox88 said:
Yes, Obama disappointed us. But that's mainly because we expected, unrealistically, for him to be extremely agressive and stomp Romney hard, forgetting what kind of person Obama is.
Click to expand...
A weak debater? Loser? Inept? He has proven to thwart all of those things and yet it's as though Obama from last night came from a time machine circa 2007. It's weird as hell.

Even Nate Silver is now more than open to the possibility that the debate could have really changed the landscape:

October 4, 2012, 2:31

It may be a bit fruitless to spend too much time worrying about the Wednesday afternoon FiveThirtyEight forecast when Wednesday night’s debate had the potential to change the election landscape. But for the sake of continuity, here goes.
Click to expand...
 
G

gcubed

Member
Sirpopopop said:
Worse than both of GWB's performances.

Worse than anything I saw out of Clinton/Dole. Clinton/GHWB.

Public opinion seems to be backing up my view so far. At least according to the polls on the debate itself that have been released so far.
Click to expand...

was not worse than Bush. Pulling god-like Clinton out, was not even worse then any incumbent back through Reagan. I mean, its almost as if a bubble surrounded 2008 and removed it from the memories of everyone
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
PBS trending makes the debate even more of a missed opportunity. All Obama had to say was that "I'd rather spend a few million to keep Big Bird on air helping to educate children than spend 2 trillion giving you another tax cut." It would have easily have been the most memorable moment of the debate
 
S

Sirpopopop

Member
gcubed said:
was not worse than Bush. Pulling god-like Clinton out, was not even worse then any incumbent back through Reagan. I mean, its almost as if a bubble surrounded 2008 and removed it from the memories of everyone
Click to expand...

How was it not worse than Bush?

It's not as if Kerry beat Bush by lying his ass off.
 
G

gcubed

Member
PhoenixDark said:
PBS trending makes the debate even more of a missed opportunity. All Obama had to say was that "I'd rather spend a few million to keep Big Bird on air helping to educate children than spend 2 trillion giving you another tax cut." It would have easily have been the most memorable moment of the debate
Click to expand...

of course he would. Big bird brainwashes kids to accept the homosexual agenda.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
Diablos said:
A weak debater? Loser? Inept? He has proven to thwart all of those things and yet it's as though Obama from last night came from a time machine circa 2007. It's weird as hell.

Even Nate Silver is now more than open to the possibility that the debate could have really changed the landscape:
Click to expand...
Why don't we wait and see what the polls say.

No one said Obama was going to get a DNC bounce either.
 
T

thefro

Member
Sirpopopop said:
I'm willing to say Obama's approval is going to tick down after the debate. It'll tick back up after he hits Romney with some ads from this debate, but not enough to reflect the split he has now from Gallup. What do you want to put on the line here?
Click to expand...

1st post-debate poll (small sample)

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/04/us-usa-campaign-poll-idUSBRE8931E420121004

Obama's favorability rating remained unchanged at 56 percent
Click to expand...

Obama's lead over Romney went from 7 to 5, but small sample size so could be noise until we get more data.
 
D

Diablos

Member
Sirpopopop said:
How was it not worse than Bush?

It's not as if Kerry beat Bush by lying his ass off.
Click to expand...
Exactly. He let Romney walk through his entire platform and lie his ass off in between. Nothing from 1992, 1996, 2000, 2004, or 2008 has been this bad. Most people seem to be in agreement there, outside of PoliGAF at least, from what I can tell.

Simply put, Mitt was channeling Reagan, staring down a nervous Obama scrambling to piece together what usually comes so naturally for him. I just can't believe it. This is like a bad dream.

Aaron Strife said:
Why don't we wait and see what the polls say.

No one said Obama was going to get a DNC bounce either.
Click to expand...
The difference is that Obama was on his A-game at the DNC and he had a lot of help to boot. No major mistakes were made, there was no lack of enthusiasm or drawing a blank with trying to explain yourself to the public even though he practically was having a victory served to him on a silver platter.

I think the polls are not going to do the President any favors. We're looking at a 50/50 race again, with the momentum tilting towards Romney because Obama didn't feel like showing up last night.

I'm with Popo: Obama is out of extra lives. If he fucks up the townhall debate he might as well stop campaigning.
 
E

Eidan

Member
Diablos said:
A weak debater? Loser? Inept? He has proven to thwart all of those things and yet it's as though Obama from last night came from a time machine circa 2007. It's weird as hell.

Even Nate Silver is now more than open to the possibility that the debate could have really changed the landscape:
Click to expand...

Nowhere in that article does Silver say the debate has changed the landscape.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
Diablos said:
The difference is that Obama was on his A-game at the DNC and he had a lot of help to boot. No major mistakes were made, there was no lack of enthusiasm or drawing a blank with trying to explain yourself to the public.
Click to expand...
Honestly, I thought Obama's DNC speech kind of sucked. Bill was the highlight of that convention.

Obama's debate performance seemed to be an extension of his DNC speech - not very aggressive, just laying out his goals for a second term and contrasting it with Romney's in broader strokes.

His debate performance wasn't great, but it wasn't terrible either like you're making it out to be. Even if Romney does win over some undecideds (and they broke 50-50 in the snap polls) Obama's ahead by so much in several of the swing states that he'd need to cut into Obama's support base, and pretty much everyone's made up their mind by now.
 
B

bishoptl

Banstick Emeritus
H269W.jpg


fuckin ace
 
D

Diablos

Member
Eidan said:
Nowhere in that article does Silver say the debate has changed the landscape.
Click to expand...
COULD HAVE changed the landscape. He's protecting himself from potential fallout for Obama completely trashing his lead in the worst Presidential debate performance I've ever seen in my life.
 
E

Eidan

Member
Diablos said:
COULD HAVE changed the landscape. He's protecting himself from potential fallout for Obama completely trashing his lead in the worst Presidential debate performance I've ever seen in my life.
Click to expand...

Seems more like he has to say something involving the debates, even though they will have no real impact on the race. Just like how he made an article about the race tightening before the debates, though the tightening was by .6 percent.
 
A

airmangataosenai

Member
Sirpopopop said:
I would say we should wait until the post-debate polls to see how approval is reflected. I generally find approval ratings to be fickle polls that slightly adjust from week to week. If you want to put it generally, you could say what most affects approval is the hot button issue at the moment.

I'm willing to say Obama's approval is going to tick down after the debate. It'll tick back up after he hits Romney with some ads from this debate, but not enough to reflect the split he has now from Gallup. What do you want to put on the line here?
Click to expand...

The Gallup might go down, but when you're working from a net +12 that's almost an insurmountable total to beat. Pres poll lags because it's a 7 day average. It'll "Tighten", nothing more.
 
B

Blergmeister

Member
Diablos said:
Exactly. He let Romney walk through his entire platform and lie his ass off in between. Nothing from 1992, 1996, 2000, 2004, or 2008 has been this bad. Most people seem to be in agreement there, outside of PoliGAF at least, from what I can tell.

Simply put, Mitt was channeling Reagan, staring down a nervous Obama scrambling to piece together what usually comes so naturally for him. I just can't believe it. This is like a bad dream.
The difference is that Obama was on his A-game at the DNC and he had a lot of help to boot. No major mistakes were made, there was no lack of enthusiasm or drawing a blank with trying to explain yourself to the public even though he practically was having a victory served to him on a silver platter.

I think the polls are not going to do the President any favors. We're looking at a 50/50 race again, with the momentum tilting towards Romney because Obama didn't feel like showing up last night.

I'm with Popo: Obama is out of extra lives. If he fucks up the townhall debate he might as well stop campaigning.
Click to expand...

I used to think you were earnest about your chicken littling, but now I realize you are an even better troll than PD since you had me going for so long.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
Joe Biden will always be my favorite.

"I turned around and looked back at my mother as I was walking with the staffer in disbelief—I didn't know how to react. I was about to meet the man that helped make my life so much better.
"My mother, Jessica, raised us as a single mother. She's a teacher and has worked so hard to support her four children. I wanted the Vice President to know that yes, we are definitely better off than we were four years ago. My family has received the tax cuts for the middle class that the President and Vice President passed, and it has helped us tremendously.

"The President and Vice President have gone above and beyond for people like me and my family, and they stand for things like keeping school affordable. My older brother uses Pell Grants and college loans to be able to afford school, and I'm thankful for that. I want to be able to go to Florida State University one day, and now I know I don't have to worry about being able to afford it. Life would not be the way it is today if they hadn't taken office four years ago.

"The Vice President approached me and I was introduced to him as a ‘special guest.’ I was overwhelmed with different emotions. I had this impulse to hug him, so I did. And I cried. I think I even got tears on the Vice President's suit jacket! I met someone who has done so much for my family without even knowing us, and that was an incredible, overwhelming feeling. I felt like he really heard me, like he knew who I was. I am hugging the man who will help me and help our President move forward."

"I explained to the Vice President that the reason I was there was because my older brother inspired me to do so. He said, 'Do you have his phone number?' Then he called him and said, 'Kaelin, this is Vice President Biden' and they chatted for about five minutes! He also signed my placard, and the last line of his note really has stuck with me. He wrote: 'It was a pleasure meeting you, keep the faith.'

"I'm definitely going to keep the faith, and the thing I'm most looking forward to is watching President Obama and Vice President Biden being sworn in for a second term on January 20th, 2013."
Click to expand...

BidenKobe.jpg
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
President Obama's campaign set a monthly record for the 2012 cycle in September, hauling in $150 million, according to the Wall Street Journal:

The September total far surpasses the $114 million raised in August, when the Obama team snapped a three-month streak in which it was outraised by Republican challenger Mitt Romney. At the time, the $114 million was the most the Obama campaign had collected in any one month in the 2012 election season. The most the Romney campaign has collected so far was $111 million in August.

Both the Obama and Romney campaigns are raising money jointly with their respective national party committees.​

Obama also raised $150 million in September of 2008, as Roll Call's Steven Dennis points out.
Click to expand...
http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/report-obama-hauls-in-record-150-million-in

So:

Better ground game.
More air time due to lower ad prices than Super PACs
Probably more money to use in the home stretch

Panic time?
 
D

Diablos

Member
From a purely objective point of view, pretending I don't care about politics or what it means to be red or blue, that the non-political Diablos would not be able to understand what Obama was trying to articulate, nor would I feel compelled to support him in any capacity. But Mitt sure did look a lot like a President, and I might want to listen to him. That Obama guy? What was he doing up there?

Aaron Strife said:
Honestly, I thought Obama's DNC speech kind of sucked. Bill was the highlight of that convention.

Obama's debate performance seemed to be an extension of his DNC speech - not very aggressive, just laying out his goals for a second term and contrasting it with Romney's in broader strokes.

His debate performance wasn't great, but it wasn't terrible either like you're making it out to be. Even if Romney does win over some undecideds (and they broke 50-50 in the snap polls) Obama's ahead by so much in several of the swing states that he'd need to cut into Obama's support base, and pretty much everyone's made up their mind by now.
Click to expand...

Come on now. When you're trying to say his debate performance outshined the DNC speech, you've gotta at least be grasping for straws somewhat. Yeah, the speech wasn't that spectacular, one of his more lackluster ones, I'll agree. Safe, if you will. But he stayed on message, didn't confuse himself, simplified the details where necessary, and most importantly kept the base happy, and got swing voters to pay attention. So it helped more than hurt him.

The debate performance last night was just abysmal to say the least. He couldn't even stick to the fundamentals of what it means to keep your shit together during a debate; even if you are on the losing side, there's ways to save face but Obama just completely lost control. He was trying to be too nice while simultaneously being unable to, again, piece together in his head what he does every fucking day of the week without fail. He could not combat Romney, his lies, nor could he put Jim Lehrer in his place (Mitt did), and someone needed to because he was terrible.

It pains me so much to say this, but for the first time, Obama lived up to the "Barack Carter" stereotype the GOP has been trying to paint him as for eons now.

What makes me so crazy about this is that what we saw was our worst fear -- in 2008. A rookie taking the stage against dinosaur John McCain, getting too nervous and losing his cool. No one expected this because it's not typical for an incumbent President to be so very much in the dark against his challenger. Even with little to no prep, Obama knows his script and counter-arguments because he says it every fucking day. It really makes me wonder what the fuck happened last night. It was, again, like a bad dream. This should not have been in the cards at all.

Blergmeister said:
I used to think you were earnest about your chicken littling, but now I realize you are an even better troll than PD since you had me going for so long.
Click to expand...
I'm a worrywort, a bit emotional sometimes, but I thoroughly enjoy these threads. I'm not a troll, you have my word. I've been on GAF for over 10 years now.

That said this is one of those times when it's totally legit to worry.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
GhaleonEB said:
http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/report-obama-hauls-in-record-150-million-in

So:

Better ground game.
More air time due to lower ad prices than Super PACs
Probably more money to use in the home stretch

Panic time?
Click to expand...
But Romney won the debate! WE'RE ALREADY DEAD

Diablos said:
Come on now. When you're trying to say his debate performance outshined the DNC speech, you've gotta at least be grasping for straws somewhat. Yeah, the speech wasn't that spectacular, one of his more lackluster ones, I'll agree. Safe, if you will. But he stayed on message, didn't confuse himself, simplified the details where necessary, and most importantly kept the base happy, and got swing voters to pay attention. So it helped more than hurt him.
Click to expand...
I didn't say it was better, I said it was about the same.

You're reading way too much into all of this.
 
A

Allard

Member
GhaleonEB said:
http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/report-obama-hauls-in-record-150-million-in

So:

Better ground game.
More air time due to lower ad prices than Super PACs
Probably more money to use in the home stretch

Panic time?
Click to expand...

Only for those that think debate #1 matters more then anything else in the world. Like a college test at the end of the year that overwrites all other tests and work (even 4 years of presidency)! if anything the bad 'debate' should keep democratic party voters from getting complacent, they have to get out and vote now for invisible damage this incident caused him!
 
K

kaching

"GAF's biggest wanker"
Diablos said:
But Mitt sure did look a lot like a President, and I might want to listen to him.
Click to expand...
If your idea of a President is the same as for a snake oil salesman, then sure.

That Obama guy? What was he doing up there?
Click to expand...
Fairly cogently presenting his policy ideas and leadership philosophy without allowing himself to be Kosmo'd into responding to all of the trollbait offered by his opponent.
 
D

dramatis

Member
Diablos said:
From a purely objective point of view, pretending I don't care about politics or what it means to be red or blue, that the non-political Diablos would not be able to understand what Obama was trying to articulate, nor would I feel compelled to support him in any capacity. But Mitt sure did look a lot like a President, and I might want to listen to him. That Obama guy? What was he doing up there?
Click to expand...
This doesn't sound objective at all :|
 
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