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PoliGAF 2013 |OT1| Never mind, Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

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mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
I really don't think many of you fully appreciate how difficult it is to alter course on such a religiously based stance.

Sometimes things like this remind me that not only is this PoliGaf, but it's NeoGaf too. I wonder how old some of those people are. If you are at least 40 or have a kid (I'm neither) you'd understand that something like this is hard to change on.
 

besada

Banned
Sometimes things like this remind me that not only is this PoliGaf, but it's NeoGaf too. I wonder how old some of those people are. If you are at least 40 or have a kid (I'm neither) you'd understand that something like this is hard to change on.
I'm 43. But feel free to keep making excuses for my peers.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
I am not actually asking you or anyone to praise him. People shouldn't be praised for doing the right thing. My point is that one shouldn't try to damper his evolution on the matter simply due to his son being gay.

In general I do believe people should be praise (even if it's just small headlines) for doing the right thing. That's what's wrong with America (and some other places), when you do something wrong the media likes to talk about it for days or weeks. But when you do something right you should get any press about it?

Why? All that would do is make the average person think that all people in power or whatever are bad, because they never hear the good stuff. It's why some people think professional athletes are greedy people. They hear about the $50 million contract, but don't hear about the $1 million campaign/charity against hunger that the same player has.
 

pigeon

Banned
How is this opportunistic? This could mean a very serious primary challenge for Portman. It's a pretty huge risk, actually.

(and others asking the same question)

I think we all understand that the Republican Party had a pretty bad outing last year. Naturally people are reacting to this by trying to figure out what needs to change -- or whether anything needs to change -- for the GOP to be successful. But they also want to be successful within the GOP -- and that means that if the GOP is going to change in a certain way, you want to be there first, announcing your new position, so that you'll end up on top when it gets there. Unfortunately, it's not really clear what the GOP needs, or what it will actually do. Some people are hoping that nothing much needs to change (Ryan, Jindal). Some are gambling that the party will moderate on immigration (Rubio), some on the military (Paul). And, of course, some, like Huntsman and Portman, think the starting point is moderation on social issues, like gay marriage.

It's no coincidence that all these people are considered possible candidates for 2016! That's why they're starting to position now. If, after 2014, it becomes clear that the GOP thinks it can win Latino votes, Rubio is already there and ready to run. If the party decides to go the full isolationist, defense-cutting route, Rand Paul will be leading the way. And if the party decides to let the fundamentalist Christians run off to the American Heritage Party, why, who better to represent the new, friendlier GOP than an experienced, low-key senator from a swing state like Ohio? You can't accuse him of prejudice -- he's got a gay son!

That's what's going on. Or do you really, really believe that it's completely coincidence that this is happening right after an election in which the GOP took a shellacking and gay marriage won at the ballot box for the first time, in multiple states, and right before a major Supreme Court case? Because if you do, no offense, but you're more credulous than I expected a PoliGAF poster to be!
 
In general I do believe people should be praise (even if it's just small headlines) for doing the right thing. That's what's wrong with America (and some other places), when you do something wrong the media likes to talk about it for days or weeks. But when you do something right you should get any press about it?

Why? All that would do is make the average person think that all people in power or whatever are bad, because they never hear the good stuff. It's why some people think professional athletes are greedy people. They hear about the $50 million contract, but don't hear about the $1 million campaign/charity against hunger that the same player has.

People have credited him with doing whats right but he shouldnt be praised for it nor should his reasons be questioned.

@Pigeon
Obama altered course when it the majority of the country approved of gay marriage and most posters I have seen in Poligaf (myself included) dont condemn him for it.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
I'm 43. But feel free to keep making excuses for my peers.

So you've never changed her mind about something after meeting or speaking with someone about a certain issue? That's really all this is with Portman. Except in this case it was his son.

People have credited him with doing whats right but he shouldnt be praised for it nor should hes reasons be qestioned.

Well okay credit or praise you get the point. They should be acknowledged.
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Holy shit, Donald Trump absolutely bombed his keynote. There were empty chairs EVERYWHERE.
 

besada

Banned
So you've never changed her mind about something after meeting or speaking with someone about a certain issue? That's really all this is with Portman. Except in this case it was his son.
.
I didn't need to, because in virtually every case, principles led me there long before I met someone who would have convinced me. Did I need a black friend to convince me racism was wrong? No.
 
House Budget Committee Chair Paul Ryan’s (R-WI) fiscal plan promises to balance the federal budget in 10 years, make major cuts in income tax rates for both individuals and corporations, and raise the same amount of revenue as current law. If House Republicans want to do all three, they will have to eliminate trillions of dollars in popular tax preferences.

The Tax Policy Center estimates that cutting individual rates to 10 percent and 25 percent, repealing the Alternative Minimum Tax and the tax increases included in the Affordable Care Act, and cutting the corporate rate from 35 percent to 25 percent would add $5.7 trillion to the deficit over the next decade. Thus, if House Republicans want to cut these taxes and still collect the revenues they promise, they’d have to raise other taxes by $5.7 trillion.

The tax cuts described in Ryan’s budget would generate a huge windfall for high-income taxpayers. On average, households would get a cut of $3,000. But those in the top 0.1 percent of income, who make $3.3 million or more, would get a whopping $1.2 million on average–a 20 percent increase in their after-tax income.

By contrast, middle-income households would get an average tax cut of about $900. Those in the bottom 20 percent (who make $22,000 or less) would get $40 and one-third of them would get no tax cut at all.

Some important caveats here: TPC did not estimate the revenue effects of a Ryan tax proposal since the budget does not include an actual plan. Rather, it modeled generic tax cuts that follow the outline of what his budget describes. And because his plan does not identify any tax increases, TPC modeled only the tax cuts.

The Ryan budget anticipates sufficient cuts in tax preferences so that a rewritten tax code raises the same amount of money as current law. But it leaves the details to the House Ways & Means Committee, which could make major changes in the budget panel’s plan.

TPC included in its revenue estimates two Obamacare tax increases on high-income households—the additional 0.9 percent Medicare tax and the new 3.9 percent tax on investment income. However, we excluded other provisions from the 2010 health law, including revenue the House budget would generate by eliminating insurance subsides or roughly the same amount Treasury would lose if other provisions of the 2010 health law are repealed.

Could Ways & Means find $5.7 trillion in tax preferences? It is hard to imagine.

For instance, OMB projects about $1.8 trillion in tax expenditures in 2017 under current law. TPC figures Congress would have to cut about $539 billion in that year to cover the revenue lost through Ryan-like rate cuts. That would slash deductions, credits, tax exclusions, and preferential rates by nearly 30 percent.

But that underestimates the size of the necessary tax hikes. There are three reasons why:

The first that the simple act of lowering rates makes tax expenditures less valuable. With a top rate of 39.6 percent, a $1 deduction is worth 39.6 cents to a top bracket taxpayer and Treasury loses the same 39.6 cents. If Congress cuts the top rate to 25 percent, the deduction would be worth less and eliminating it would produce fewer dollars for the Treasury.

The second problem is that people will change behavior as they lose tax benefits, and that will reduce the amount of money government will collect. Take away my mortgage interest deduction and, if I can afford it, I’ll just pay off my mortgage.

The third problem is that many tax expenditures are untouchable. For instance, does anybody really want to tax combat pay? Or imputed rent on the value of owner-occupied homes? Will Republicans raise rates on capital gains? If not, other preferences would have to take a bigger hit.

Finally, because the rate cuts are so regressive, House Republicans would have to heavily skew offsetting tax increases to high-income households if they want to keep the distribution of taxes roughly what it is today. And that will be another heavy lift.

In the end, the Ryan budget is only half-a-plan. It outlines politically attractive tax cuts but says nothing about the tax increases necessary to pay for them. It leaves us with little more than a black box. The TPC numbers show just how big that box is.

http://taxvox.taxpolicycenter.org/2...illion-in-tax-hikes-to-offset-ryan-rate-cuts/

$6 trillion in loopholes needing to be closed. LMAO. Paul Ryan, clown extraordinaire.
 
(and others asking the same question)

I think we all understand that the Republican Party had a pretty bad outing last year. Naturally people are reacting to this by trying to figure out what needs to change -- or whether anything needs to change -- for the GOP to be successful. But they also want to be successful within the GOP -- and that means that if the GOP is going to change in a certain way, you want to be there first, announcing your new position, so that you'll end up on top when it gets there. Unfortunately, it's not really clear what the GOP needs, or what it will actually do. Some people are hoping that nothing much needs to change (Ryan, Jindal). Some are gambling that the party will moderate on immigration (Rubio), some on the military (Paul). And, of course, some, like Huntsman and Portman, think the starting point is moderation on social issues, like gay marriage.

It's no coincidence that all these people are considered possible candidates for 2016! That's why they're starting to position now. If, after 2014, it becomes clear that the GOP thinks it can win Latino votes, Rubio is already there and ready to run. If the party decides to go the full isolationist, defense-cutting route, Rand Paul will be leading the way. And if the party decides to let the fundamentalist Christians run off to the American Heritage Party, why, who better to represent the new, friendlier GOP than an experienced, low-key senator from a swing state like Ohio? You can't accuse him of prejudice -- he's got a gay son!

That's what's going on. Or do you really, really believe that it's completely coincidence that this is happening right after an election in which the GOP took a shellacking and gay marriage won at the ballot box for the first time, in multiple states, and right before a major Supreme Court case? Because if you do, no offense, but you're more credulous than I expected a PoliGAF poster to be!
This stance dooms both Huntsman and Portman in 2016. That should be obvious to anyone.
 

pigeon

Banned
Obama altered course when it the majority of the country approved of gay marriage and most posters I have seen in Poligaf (myself included) dont condemn him for it.

Well, it was pretty clearly a cynical lie, and I'm pretty sure a bunch of people noted that at the time.

This stance dooms both Huntsman and Portman in 2016. That should be obvious to anyone.

I hope you're right! But if they really thought that, I doubt they'd have done it. In case you didn't notice, the GOP keeps saying it wants to run crazy conservatives, but they actually nominate pragmatic moderates. What's more pragmatic than supporting gay marriage after only 131 prominent Republicans have done so?
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Erick Erickson said:
"I used to believe that Led Zeppelin was an amazing band, but then I found out my son liked rap, so I changed my views." - Sen. Portman

BOOM.
 
I don't think same sex marriage will have any impact on 2016 unless the GOP embraces it as a major issue (against it) nation wide.

Even if the SCOTUS doesn't make a ban illegal everywhere, this issue's writing is on the wall.
 
I hope you're right! But if they really thought that, I doubt they'd have done it.

I've got another person here telling me that Portman is a Congressional nobody, and I've got you telling me that he's running in 2016.

Who to believe...who to believe...

Why would Portman be doomed? He's the Senator of a state whose majority support gay marriage. I doubt the Repubs are going to primary him and he'll pick up independent voters.

I was referring to his hypothetical presidential run, not his Senate reelection.

I agree that he'll retain his seat in the Senate, but I do think he could get a bit of a scare in the primaries. I like to think of my state as reasonably progressive, but we've got plenty of batshit right-wingers.
 

kehs

Banned
*whispers* benghazi benghazi benghazi *whispers*

Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham, in an interview with Fox News, alleged that the injured survivors of the Benghazi terror attack have been "told to be quiet" and feel they can't come forward to tell their stories -- escalating his push for more information about survivors who have never been publicly identified.

...

"We cannot let this administration or any other administration get away with hiding from the American people and Congress, people who were there in real time to tell the story," Graham said.

Sen. Graham claims Benghazi survivors 'told to be quiet' by administration
 

pigeon

Banned
I've got another person here telling me that Portman is a Congressional nobody, and I've got you telling me that he's running in 2016.'

Who to believe...who to believe...

There's no contradiction. Portman was virtually unknown in 2012 and he was at the top of most people's lists for VP nominee. How much did you know about George W. Bush in 1997?
 
I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall when Romney's inner-circle was discussing Rob Portman's gay son.

Portman was such an obvious choice, IMO. I had a feeling something was up.
 
So in fiscal news, the Senate Republicans rejected an amendment to a bill to ensure large profitable corporations don't ever pay zero tax but it passed committee anyway and in the House the House GOP unanimously blocked an amendment to a bill to raise the minimum wage.

Keep looking out for the lower and middle class, GOP.
 
There's no contradiction. Portman was virtually unknown in 2012 and he was at the top of most people's lists for VP nominee. How much did you know about George W. Bush in 1997?

Republicans are only now just warming up to those dirty job-stealing Hispanics.

Do you really think they're going to warm up to the gays in time for Portman or Huntsman to be viable in 2016?
 
Edit: Black Mamba beat me to it

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/...rns-to-chaos-as-white-supremacists-arrive.php

LULZ

A CPAC session sponsored by Tea Party Patriots and billed as a primer on teaching activists how to court black voters devolved into a shouting match as some attendees demanded justice for white voters and others shouted down a black woman who reacted in horror.

“I don’t care how much the KKK improved,” he said. “I’m not going to join the KKK. The Democratic Party founded the KKK.”

Lines like that drew shouts of praise from some attendees and murmurs of disapproval from one non-conservative black attendee, Kim Brown, a radio host and producer with Voice of Russia, a broadcasting service of the Russian government.
Scott Terry of North Carolina, accompanied by a Confederate-flag-clad attendee, Matthew Heimbach, rose to say he took offense to the event’s take on slavery. (Heimbach founded the White Students Union at Towson University and is described as a “white nationalist” by the Southern Poverty Law Center.)

“It seems to be that you’re reaching out to voters at the expense of young white Southern males,” Terry said, adding he “came to love my people and culture” who were “being systematically disenfranchised.”

Smith responded that Douglass forgave his slavemaster.

“For giving him food? And shelter?” Terry said.

Chad Chapman, 21, one of the few black attendees, said overall he enjoyed the event — except “there were lots of interruptions, mainly because of the woman.”
“No they were just telling the truth,” he said. You mean he agrees blacks are systematically disenfranchising whites, I asked?

“I listen to anybody’s point of view, it doesn’t really matter,” he said.

“Look, you know there’s no doubt the white males are getting really beat up right now, it’s unfair,” she said. “I agree with that. My husband’s one of them.
But I don’t think there’s a clear understanding about what really is going on. He needs to read Frederick Douglass and I think that question should be asked to everyone in this room who is debating.”
 
Pierce on Portman:

But, what? If Will hadn't come out, or if he'd been as straight as Nebraska highway, Portman wouldn't have cared about the sons and daughters and brothers and sisters of all the other Dads who love them and want them to have the same opportunities? It's not just the implied notion that discrimination is OK unless it inconveniences Sunday dinner with the Portmans. It's also the relentless banality through which even "decent" Republicans struggle to come to simple humanity. Does any group of people have dark nights of the soul that are so endlessly boring and transparently insincere? It's like listening to Kierkegaard sell flatware. I'm glad there's another vote for marriage equality here. I'm also glad I didn't have to listen to the full explanation behind it.​
 
It's also the relentless banality through which even "decent" Republicans struggle to come to simple humanity. Does any group of people have dark nights of the soul that are so endlessly boring and transparently insincere?

This is stupid because "liberals" didn't always believe in "simple humanity" it wasn't till last year the party did.
 
This is stupid because "liberals" didn't always believe in "simple humanity" it wasn't till last year the party did.

I think the gist of it is that liberals are at least capable of coming around on things like this without having a gay, bi or trans kid to look in the eyes and try to say "no" to.
 

besada

Banned
This is stupid because "liberals" didn't always believe in "simple humanity" it wasn't till last year the party did.
There is no party called liberals. There's a Democratic party, which hasn't been liberal in a long time, but liberals have been supporting gay equality for a long time. I know, because I'm a liberal who was marching for gay equality in the 80's.

You may now go back to drawing your false equivalences.
 

FyreWulff

Member
or if he'd been as straight as Nebraska highway

I wish they were straight.

m0U3HGa.jpg
 
There is no party called liberals. There's a Democratic party, which hasn't been liberal in a long time, but liberals have been supporting gay equality for a long time. I know, because I'm a liberal who was marching for gay equality in the 80's.

You may now go back to drawing your false equivalences.

The furthest I can go back to in polling is to 96 and only 25% supported gay marriage. You didn't have a lot of support back then I'm guessing. So the article can bash 80% plus of america and the world for not having "basic humanity"
 
There is no party called liberals. There's a Democratic party, which hasn't been liberal in a long time, but liberals have been supporting gay equality for a long time. I know, because I'm a liberal who was marching for gay equality in the 80's.

You may now go back to drawing your false equivalences.

When was the last time the Democratic Party was liberal?
 

besada

Banned
The furthest I can go back to in polling is to 96 and only 25% supported gay marriage. You didn't have a lot of support back then I'm guessing. So the article can bash 80% plus of america and the world for not having "basic humanity"
Sure, why not. When the vast majority didn't give a shit about AIDS, they were inhumane. When they didn't care about slavery, they were wrong and lacked humanity. When they interred the Japanese, they lacked humanity. I'm fine with saying that.
 
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